69 replies to this topic

[Carver]

Ok, this is a battle of the titans between our 2 fave action girls here: wai Lin and Jinx. Before I start, this thread is not to provoke any heated arguements about the colour of the 2 actresses skin,or anything like that, if anyone feels offended by my, or any other posts which should hopefully be replied to in this thread, feel free to contact to moederators. Anyways, Wai Lin and Jinx are both seen as ''Bond equals'' i.e, they are female versions of Bond. There was much hype over the introduction of Wai Lin when Tomorrow Never Dies came out in 1997, and there was even more hype about Halle Berry's character ''Jinx'', when Die Another Day came out earlier this year. My question is: who do you see as the better charcter? IMO, Wai Lin is the stronger character. No offense, I find Halle Berry more attractive, but Wai Lin appeals to me more as she is closest to what Bond is like, more than Jinx is. Wai Lin has a more dominant role in combat skills, and, although Jinx does perform to her full postential in DAD, Wai Lin would pose more of a threat in a fight I think. Anyway, thats my opinion, lets hear yours:)

[License To Kill]

Both are horrible, but Wai Lin, by a nose, because Michelle Yeoh is a more talented actress than Halle Berry.


~LTK~

[JimmyBond]

Well, I disagree, I really liked Jinx and I really like Halle Berry. Then again, I really like Wai Lin and I really like Michelle Yeoh.

Tie, for me, I guess.

[brendan007]

michelle yeoh was much more believable as a secret agent, but jinx is a funner character. as both characters are supposed to be bond equals, i nominate wai lin as the better woman, because she was much more believable as being bonds equal.

[Double-0 Six]

Wai Lin.

Michelle Yeoh was much more believable in the role, and the character was feisty and capable without being irritating, which is a trap far too many female action stars fall into.

[Agent Lee]

Wai Lin. She is better looking, and a better fighter. I agree with Double-O Six in that she was feisty and capable without being irritating, which is a trap far too many female action stars fall into.

Incidentally, another trap too many female action stars fall into, is that we wind up listening to all sorts of boring garbage about their personal lives.

Fortunately, neither Wai Lin and Jinx, fell into that trap. Incidentally, for the next Bond film, I would definitely pay good money to see Wai Lin kill Jinx!

[Peter]

I loved Wai Lin. She was so cool and tough. And she seemed really smart. I vote for her.

But I thought Jinx was okay. As someone mentioned, she has a lot more humor and sex seems to be one of her weapons.

If you look back to Anya in TSWLM, who was previously "Bond's equal". it's clear both Wai Lin and Jinx could kick her...behind. But Anya was by far the sexiest of the three. She also had great wits about her, especially when she was competing with Bond.

The only problem with these characters is that all three have to be rescued by Bond (Anya at Atlantis, Wai Lin from the underwater chains, and Jinx from the...hotel room?) Bond is the hero, of course, but they are made totally helpless. It would have been better if Bond had "helped" them rather than "Rescued" them, if you get my meaning.

[rafterman]

Wai Lin easily

[General Koskov]

If sex is one of Jinx' weapons, then why do we only see her using it
'against' Bond? Why doesn't she get Zao on that overly-elaborate death-trap ostensibly used to cut diamonds?

As you can see, I think Wai Lin is a lot better than Jinx. Not that there's anything bad about Miss Berry or the character, but she was never used in an original fashion, yet was portrayed as such. What ever happened to Brosnan getting better character into the films like he did in TWINE? Melodrama is better than lame quips...

[Sir James]

I think Iam going against the crowd by saying Jinx. Halle Berry is an accomplished actress who handles every scene with grace, style, and a sense of danger. Much like Bond. She is beautiful and talented. Even in some respects she overshadowed Bond! For example, in the fight on the plane, I remember more of Frost vs. Jinx than I do Bond vs. Graves. (Maybe it was becuase of what they were wearing ) Berry (who has never looked hotter), gave a stellar performance in a strong, powerful, and extremely hyped role. And she makes it all look to easy.

Michelle Yeoh's Wai Lin is all for action, physical presence and strength. She has no grace, beauty or style that comes with it. She is more concerned about a loaded machine gun than looking good while shooting it. There is a certain grace that comes with being a Bond girl, she didnt have it. Yeah, she can probably beat the **** out of me, but so what, I expect a little something different from a Bond girl.

[Adam]

Wai Lin

Originally posted by Agent Lee
Incidentally, for the next Bond film, I would definitely pay good money to see Wai Lin kill Jinx!

Aww, me too...

Be careful though, Halle Berry might run you over with her car if she reads that...

Just kidding, honestly

[Mata Bond]

I choose neither Wai Lan nor Jinx. Michelle Yeoh is a very likeable actress, particularly in the Jackie Chan movie Supercop where she had a wonderful blend of comedy and action, but she was a very unappealing stiff in "Tomorrow Never Dies." Jinx was a decently-written character that was undermined by Halle Berry's flat performance. She sort of reminded me of Julia Roberts in that both actresses seem to have this smug attitude that every thing they do is wonderful and they don't have to "earn" any affection with the audience. I'll never forget the way she sashys through "Die Another Day" as if she is SO INCREDIBLE (which she isn't). Halle Berry has the biggest ego of any actress since the days of Joan Crawford.

If we are to choose the best of Bond's female compatriots, I would vote for Carey Lowell's Pam Bouvier in "Licence to Kill." Unlike any of the ladies mentioned, this was one leading lady that NEVER had to be rescued by Bond. (Just think back on the movie and try to remember a scene in that movie where he rescues her. Can't find one?) In fact, there were more than a few scenes where she saved his skin!

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Originally posted by Sir James
She is more concerned about a loaded machine gun than looking good while shooting it.

That is the exact reason why I'm voting for Wai Lin. Jinx was always concerned with looking smooth and sexy, while Wai Lin was more concerned about kicking the enemy's sorry **** three ways 'till Sunday. Jinx was a great character, but overrated and overhyped. I felt Wai Lin handled herself much better, while Jinx had to be rescued twice in the film (although her line "What took you so long?" was perfectly delivered. So for who could win in a fight, I vote for Wai Lin. If you're concerned about looks and sexiness, however, Jinx wins by a mile. The only thing I disliked about Wai Lin was the way she always did that funny "Hya!" everytime she unloaded some rounds in a machine gun.

Keep in mind that this is my opinion, and mine only. So don't get in a hissy fit if you think I'm totally wrong. Like Carver said, I don't want to get into a squabble with someone.

[Tehuti 004]

Originally posted by Double-Oh-Zero

That is the exact reason why I'm voting for Wai Lin. Jinx was always concerned with looking smooth and sexy, while Wai Lin was more concerned about kicking the enemy's sorry **** three ways 'till Sunday. Jinx was a great character, but overrated and overhyped. I felt Wai Lin handled herself much better, while Jinx had to be rescued twice in the film (although her line "What took you so long?" was perfectly delivered. So for who could win in a fight, I vote for Wai Lin. If you're concerned about looks and sexiness, however, Jinx wins by a mile. The only thing I disliked about Wai Lin was the way she always did that funny "Hya!" everytime she unloaded some rounds in a machine gun.

Keep in mind that this is my opinion, and mine only. So don't get in a hissy fit if you think I'm totally wrong. Like Carver said, I don't want to get into a squabble with someone.

Well it isnt your opinion only. I fell exactly the same way.

I will state my opinion, I wouldnt like to repeat what 000 said.

[Carver]

Well, here's my opinion (don't think I stated it in my first post) is basically the same as Double-Oh-Zero's. For action, and combat ability, I'd go for Wai Lin, I'd rather have her on my side in a fight, rather than Jinx. However, on style, looks and sex appeal, I'd go for Jinx. Jinx, IMHO was sexier and worthy of an NSA agent, but Wai Lin did just have that edge over her in combat skills. My real vote for best ''Bond equal'' would have to go to either Pam Bouvier or Anya, most likely the later. I know she had to be rescued by Bond and such, but not all women can be perfect, thats what Bond girls are for (no sexist stuff here, just about the Bond girls), they are there to be rescued (and for Bond to make love to;)) so my vote for best equal goes to Anya/XXX:)

[iceberg]

Originally posted by Mata Bond
I choose neither Wai Lan nor Jinx.  Michelle Yeoh is a very likeable actress, particularly in the Jackie Chan movie Supercop where she had a wonderful blend of comedy and action, but she was a very unappealing stiff in "Tomorrow Never Dies."  Jinx was a decently-written character that was undermined by Halle Berry's flat performance.  She sort of reminded me of Julia Roberts in that both actresses seem to have this smug attitude that every thing they do is wonderful and they don't have to "earn" any affection with the audience.  I'll never forget the way she sashys through "Die Another Day" as if she is SO INCREDIBLE (which she isn't).  Halle Berry has the biggest ego of any actress since the days of Joan Crawford.

If we are to choose the best of Bond's female compatriots, I would vote for Carey Lowell's Pam Bouvier in "Licence to Kill."  Unlike any of the ladies mentioned, this was one leading lady that NEVER had to be rescued by Bond.  (Just think back on the movie and try to remember a scene in that movie where he rescues her.  Can't find one?)  In fact, there were more than a few scenes where she saved his skin!

Thank you for your comment about Pam Bouvier, MB. Couldn't agree more. There's a sidekick who can take care of herself.

Regarding the Wai Lin/Jinx Bond girl death match, well, they're both underdeveloped characters. Jinx is given more to do than Wai Lin, though.

But, seniority counts.... so my choice is Wai Lin. As I stated in another post, Jinx in nothing more than Wai Lin with a much more ravenous libido and street cred.

[Robinson]

Originally posted by Double-Oh-Zero

That is the exact reason why I'm voting for Wai Lin. Jinx was always concerned with looking smooth and sexy, while Wai Lin was more concerned about kicking the enemy's sorry **** three ways 'till Sunday. Jinx was a great character, but overrated and overhyped.

And there is the crux of the attention concerning Jinx. The hype surrounding Halle's casting along w/the cosmetic & car tie-ins is what's creating this dislike for Jinx. This as well as the publicity machine's disregard for the series history. "Bond's finally met his equal in Jinx?" C'mon, Pussy Galore, Tracy, Melina Havelock, Pam Bouvier weren't Bond's equal? Save that ******.

From an action standpoint, Halle seems to be as stiff, running in a sundress as she did fighting Toad in X-men. Halle's not physical(no "Monster's Ball" jokes please). I'll say it again. Angela Bassett or even Dina Myer would've worked as Jinx. I'm not sure she could carry a spin-off unless she takes some intensive martial arts training. Otherwise we're looking @ fight scenes as cheezy as Austin Powers.

Wai Lin get's my nod. The producers need to keep this up. A Bond girl who's Bond's equal makes for a more interesting love scene!

[MovieManOO7]

If this will lead to a gypsy camp fight scene between Jinx and Wai Lin, I'm all for it although Wai Lin will definitely win. Her character is scores better than Jinx (who came across as rather annoying if you ask me). Wai Lin was much more enjoyable in TND and believable in the fight scenes. Furthermore, in DAD Jinx's fight scenes seemed to detract from Bond (I don't know about you but I felt like the climatic fight between Jinx and Frost had more screen time than the battle between Bond and Graves!). Wai Lin's solo fights, on the other hand, were utilized well and left you wanting more.

Nevertheless, I much more prefer Anya Amasova (XXX), Pam Bouvier, and Melina Havelock over the two of them.

[Jamie007]

I dont like either. Both are irritating and I dont find either especially attractive, in fact I think Michelle Yeoh is quite ordinary.

[kevrichardson]

I fail to see what was wrong with either character. I was under the impression that Wai Lin was to return at some point in the series. The hype was that she was to be a recuring character , Leiter or Jack Wade . Still , both females worked for me. Neither Berry or Yeoh have must "depth" as actresses . Both have been in award winning films , yet the precess in bothe films ,DAD and TND was okay . In the case of "Jinx" in dad . I feel that there my be more footage on the floor of the cutting run of her than what made it into the film . Clearly ,i am not writing about the "sex scene" . Iread that they was a "golf match" with her and Graves . Just what happen to it. I found the fact that she is one of the few Bond girls , who does not meet the main villian . Like Kissy in YOLT stupid. Yet Graves was aware of her . Also Jinx's apperance at the Ice Palace just came out of nowhere. Was Yeoh not aviable to return?

[Harmsway]

Wai Lin hands down. As far as fighting, there's no contest. As for classiness? Well, I dunno, I can't say Jinx is really classy. She says "Yo momma" and "read this, *****", not to mention "I got the thrust of it". At least Wai Lin never does any of that. She kick's the villain's butt in quite class. She doesn't need to use innuendo to be sexy when she's talking with Bond at Carver's party, and she doesn't need to have a comeback when face to face with the villain. Her actions speak for her. If I had to choose, I'd pick Wai Lin.

Now if we're rating purely on looks, that's another matter all together.

[kevrichardson]

To say that Jinx's Americanism is classless , speaks volumes on the level of snobbery and anti-american sentiment . It just a "saying" no more that "old man" for the british. Both characters are cartoon like ,no different than Bond. Wai Lin did not "kick the butt of the villian". She did what was required , that was too help Bond. Jinx fill the same.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
To say that Jinx's Americanism is classless , speaks volumes on the level of snobbery and anti-american sentiment .

Oh, I don't know, wouldn't most Americans also think that some of the dialogue given to Jinx lacks class? It comes across, embarrassingly, as two white British screenwriters clinging to dated ideas of what a sassy African American girl should sound like.

And I think you'll find very, very little anti-Americanism on this site and in the United Kingdom as a whole. Contrary to what the US media would have one believe, the Brits do not generally go in for sniggering at Americans.

Anyway, I'd say that I prefer Wai Lin. Just my personal opinion, but I thought that the character was more interesting, much less in-your-face annoying, and that Michelle Yeoh is better looking than and a far superior actress to Halle Berry.

[kevrichardson]

Do british people still uses the term "old boy"etc like Roland Coleman in the 1930's . The phrase "your momma" did not bother me . Since i realize that James Bond inhabits a world different from reality. There are far more "offensive" words than "your momma" .Nor did i find it embarrassing the two (2) british screenwriters presented the "sassiness" of an African-American female.

[Harmsway]

Hey, I am an American! I'm not anti-American in the slightest. Not to mention I never said she was classless. I just said she really wasn't that classy. Maybe Michelle Yeoh doesn't face off against Carver, but she was more of a help than Jinx was. I also never said "Yo momma" was offensive. I just said it wasn't a very classy thing to say.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
Do british people still uses the term "old boy"etc like Roland Coleman in the 1930's .

Not really, it's only used humorously. We also no longer go around fog-bound London wearing bowler hats and drinking nothing but tea.

[kevrichardson]

Well then that my point. Not every African-American says " your momma". African-American can laugh at themselves in movies also.

[Loomis]

I'm not saying they can't. I still don't think Jinx's dialogue is classy, though.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Harmsway
Hey, I am an American! I'm not anti-American in the slightest. Not to mention I never said she was classless. I just said she really wasn't that classy. Maybe Michelle Yeoh doesn't face off against Carver, but she was more of a help than Jinx was. I also never said "Yo momma" was offensive. I just said it wasn't a very classy thing to say.

Well i am a American and African -American also , i took" she really wasn't classy ", for what it was a insult . I enjoyed both women . In fact you could have use either in both films . since it was the same type of character.

[General Koskov]

According (what I see in) the media, the Limeys kiss the Yanks' more than Jinx delivers shoddy lines. They seem especially enthusiastic about selling out their colonies to Americans also, but I guess it doesn't seem so bad looking at it from your cushy palaces and gentlemen's clubs protected by your enforcers of snobbery: the Royal Navy (surmounted by the RAF).



But back to my opinion of Jinx:

she was the most overrated Bond girl ever!

Has Eon got a severe bout of amnesia? Are they so friggin' retarded, and engrossed in CGI, that they can't remember the first Bond girl ever was a British agent, and even by 1954, Gala Brand was Bond's equal. Not to mention--for those Eon employees who are illiterate and could not've known the examples I just gave--we had Paula as the first agent, and then of course XXX was the most famous 'Bond's equal'. So I restate my question: did Berry or Eon actually believe what they were saying when Berry states in interviews, 'we're doing something different with Jinx--she's Bond's equal.'