42 replies to this topic

[kevrichardson]

i have post many time about the use of Casino Royale, as next Bond film. Still Bond has been to the Middle east only once that was in the TSWLM. And then the villians were only minor villians. Why?? No major villians had been Middle Eastern in a Bond film. The Koreans/Chinese in Goldfinger, and now DAD. Still no one from the Middle eastern. Gardner use one as the Head of the re-built SPECTRE in the novels Role of Honor and Nobody Lives Forever.Yet the films or cinematic Bond continues to use Asians ,Eastern Europeans,(remember Renard,was Bosian),Russian(still every ones favorite) Latin Americans(LTK), and finally Blacks(LALD). Does any one have a theory as to why no Middle Easterns. Tamil Rahani was the name of the villian. this was part of the Gardner SPECTRE novels. I have all believe that the 3 novel would make a interesting film series for Bond. Since very ethinic group has been use in the films why not Middle eastern people. Many of us have posted about the use of SPECTRE, a SPECTRE with a person of Middle Eastern origin would be fun and interest. The 2 Gardner novels with Tamil Rahani a head of SPECTRE are all centered in Europe. Does EON have a option to use the Gardner novel ????

[zencat]

Not to split hairs, but Bond was in Beruit in TMWTGG.

I'd like to see Bond in the Middle East, but maybe it would be best left to a book. I agree, a middle eastern villian would be great and long overdue.

[MrJango]

im not sure if afghanistan qualifies as a middle eastern country, but if it does then weve had a middle eastern main villain. kamal khan was an exiled afghan prince, if i remember correctly. and bond was in afghanistan in TLD, too.
and if turkey is a middle eastern country then bond went to the middle east in both FRWL and TWINE.

[General Koskov]

This 'Middle' East nomenclature is a bit silly, I think. Some say that N Africa is the 'Near' East, Mesopotamia is the 'Middle' East, and Pakistan and beyond is the 'Far' East. This makes sense, but then there are some who say it's all the 'Middle' East except for SE Asia...

Anyway, now that I've confused everyone, I'd like to point out that there is certainly no 'political' reason Bond shouldn't fight an Arab or Israeli since the media daemonises those people anyway, I think that MGM would love to help with the 'war on terror' and have Bond on 'our' side.

And Tamil Rahini was a lame villain, in my opinion.

[Red Widow Dawn]

Originally posted by General Koskov

And Tamil Rahini was a lame villain, in my opinion.

Welcome to Gardner-land.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Middle Eastern villain, as long as they do it tactfully...and not have him fly planes into buildings or anything...like...that...

...I'll stop talking now.

[templer1972]

Bond versus middle eastern villian is a big mistake and if it really happen this going to be the first bond film which will be banned in most islamic country because of it subject matter.Look at film such as True Lies,Executive Decision and The Seige all three was banned is every muslim country and few asian islamic country ,and it really affected the overseas box office gross for this film.I strongly against the above ideas and dont want Brosnan final bond film becoming his lowest box office collection .

[White Persian]

I think the backlash in Islamic countries (and the possibility of some nutcase trying to earn celestial brownie points by disrupting filming in some unpleasantly explosive fashion) would cause both MGM and Eon to shy well away from the Middle East.

Unless a plot was devised that actively worked to present moderate Muslims in a positive light, say Bond working with his old Mujahadin mates to prevent Zao, who has mutated into George Dubya Bush, from triggering an apocalyptic war.

Can't see that approach being adopted though.

[kevrichardson]

SO it's O.K. to use the North Koreans and the Red Chinese and villians. Since the Slavic and the Russian are now are friends. Yet the terrorist of today are from the Middle and Near east. Is n't that a bit racist. I realize that it's just a movie yet since the begining of Bond films , the asian race his gotten a bad deal. Dr.No, the Koreans in GF. Not just OddJob. The japanese in YOLT, asian again in TMWTGG, and finally TND and DAD with the chinese and the Koreans. It O.k. ,to racially pick on an entire culture. Yet not explore villian from other, since Russia is dead. This start as a post to explore the use of Tamil Rahani . The new Hear of SPECTRE, inthe Gardner novels. I can care less about Bush and geo-politics.

[manitou007]

The Chinese secret service helped out in TND... it was just Carver's twisted version of events that was making them consider going to war.

And also a brief mention of a General Chang, who proceeds to disappear from the film entirely.

[White Persian]

I don't think you can separate a Bond film (as opposed to a novel) from geo- politics.
A backlash from any organised ethnic or cultural group can adversely affect a film's box office. We've already seen examples of protests about middle eastern baddies in films causing a stink, and that was before tensions escalated.
This frightens studios with an eye on the bottom line.
Also, we've already seen with DAD that a lot of overseas location shooting was abandoned for fear that a high profile icon of all that's sinful in the west like poor old 007 might attract violent protests.
I don't think that MGM would consider shooting Bond 21 even in a friendly location like Morocco, doubling for Iraq or wherever, in the current climate (of course in two years time things might change).

My comment about Dubya as a villain was, of course, completely facetious.

[daman3755]

As much fun as it would be to see Bond in the Middle East, it won't be happening for a long time to come. Right now the US, led by everyone's friend (but my true enemy) Dubya, is about to go to war with Iraq. The war on terrorism is still going on in Afghani-land. Doing a Bond film in the Middle East right now is a big no-no, not unless you want your "meat and two veg" cut off and fed to ravenous dogs.

And as for Dubya...I'd make him a villian. Sure, why not?

[kevrichardson]

It's Ok to insult Koreans and Chinese. Even through the real enemy is not the importent , and weak Iraqians . It the North Koreans who will use or sell their Nukes to the highest bidder. I find all this Political correct B.S. rather amusming since for years it was the Russians and the slavics, Asians (Bulgar ,Poles,Chinese, Koreans, Japanese. ) who made up,the villians in countless Spy film. Now to be aware of the need to be politically correct in a Bond movie .

[Agent Lee]

Is everybody forgetting that 007 was in Egypt? That was where he encountered Jaws, for the first time.

Bond

[kevrichardson]

No , nothing political. the next Bond villian will just wnat to increase the flow of Middle Eastern oil to keep the price low to help western nations people. Bond iwll try and stop this . since the lower price of oil will mean that Americans can Drive their SUV's in peace.

[Agent Lee]

Not to worry. In another five or ten years, the western nations, led by Q branch, will develop and use clean energy on a massive scale. That might be in the form of solar power, wind power, sea power, or hydrogen fuel cells, or whatever. It will be clean, and non-polluting.

In any case, the western nations will no longer require oil from there, or anywhere else, from that matter. As a result, the West will no longer support those corrupt Middle Eastern governments. Those governments will fall, and the Middle East will turn into a cesspool of violence and hatred. Wait a minute. It already is.

Anyways, from those collapsing governments, we could get some interesting characters to meet Bond. After all, Xenia Onnatop came from the former Soviet Union

[YOLT]

I have been a student in Turkey, Ankara for 10 years, and I think a Bond film in there CANT BE BAD. Turks are the friends of the western world but what about arabs? I went to Egypt and its just poor than Turkey in lots of ways. As a Bond fan I asked people in Turkey about Bond. As you can think they LOVE FRWL and liked TWINE. Make a new FRWL(the best Bond film ever) and see what happens.

[Double oh Ten]

Bond went to the middle east in TWINE, almost the entire film was in the middle east; turkey, kazakstan, azerbaijan and the azerbaijan mountains. So Bond has been to the middle east.

But i think cinemagoers would be thinking too much of True Lies and the middle eastern villain in that if Bond met a middle eastern.

But still i think that it is a cracking idea, i posted an idea not too long ago about middle eastern terrorists attacking British and American oil interests. But maybe that area will be too touchy for a while yet

[Agent Lee]

Wait a minute. That sounds a lot like what Electra King was doing. She was trying to manipulate Middle Eastern oil to the western nations. If I remember correctly, her ethnic background was actually Middle Eastern, on here mother's side.

In that case, we have already had a Middle Eastern villain, threatening the oil supply to the West. The villain was the beautiful Electra King, and not some stinking bearded Arab, hiding in a cave...

[White Tuxedo]

I'd like to see Bond in South America.

[General Koskov]

Perhaps Bond could team up with some Palestinian agent, only to have the Israeli Defence Force get in his way with a general being the villain. Then the Islamic countries could see Eon portraying the Israelis as villains and we'd have record box-office sales of Bond films in Islam.

And we desparately need the President of the US to be a villain, though I suspect there would be some additions to the CIA's assassination list if that happened. Damned conspiracies screwing us out of a good film!

[PaulZ108]

I really don't want to see a middle eastern villain for a while. It'd look current now ("ripped from the headlines" taglines from hell would be back), but in 10 or so years it'll look as dated as the whole drug lord aspect of LTK does now.

[General Koskov]

Right, because there is no drug problem anymore and drug lords are a thing of the past...

[PaulZ108]

Originally posted by General Koskov
Right, because there is no drug problem anymore and drug lords are a thing of the past...

I wasn't saying the problem was gone, just that the media isn't covering it extensively and you don't hear much anymore about drug lords being busted. On the other hand, middle eastern terrorists are all the media talks about lately.

[Simon]

I'm not sure how mid Wales would look as a double for Saudi. I only say this as this can be the only place that could offer potential in Eon's eyes.

A few painted buildings to look white or sandstone, remove the sheep, add the chanting and there you go - Saudi.

Yeah, I guess it could be done.

[Jim]

Although far more coherently and concisely noted above, given that we are promised "more of the same" by MGM, the grabbing of as much cash as possible by spreading it all so thinly to catch all possible demographics, the Middle East is unlikely - why not go further than DAD, in offending two countries, and offend a whole region, and more likely than not, the world's largest religion.

It's time for a non-specific loony who hates everyone - qv Stromberg and Drax. Actually, that'd be more entertaining than the crass attempts to be "contemporary".

[Jim]

Multiple orgasm - sorry.

[Jim]

Originally posted by Jim
Multiple orgasm - sorry.

(double post)

Oh God, all fingers and thumbs today.

Wife looks strangely pleased, but I apologise for wasting everyone's time

[Agent Lee]

I agree with Jim. It is really is time for a non-specific loony who hates everyone - qv Stromberg and Drax. I believe that really would be more entertaining than the crass attempts to be "contemporary"

[Peter]

Very interesting thread.

I did want to comment though on that Asians have all been villianized. I do concede that Fleming/the films have had a high share of asian villians, but there have been many heros as well. Dr. No and GF are pretty one sided, but we have the great Tiger, Kissy and Aki in YOLT (and really only on Japanese baddie, Mr. Osato). In TMWTGG, Hai Fat is bad, but not evil, and a very impressive character. I always liked Lt. Hip in that film, and although the Siamese fighting school is made to look sort of foolish (although Chu-la is tough), again, the villian is not actually Thai or Chinese.
In TLD, Kamran SHah appears foolish, but is actually a suave resistance fighter, who leads his fighters to aid Bond, who later aides them!
In TND, again other than minor Chang, the only asian baddies are the henchmen in Saigon. Their butts are clearly kicked by Chinese Wai Lin.
Despite the hoopla in Korea about DAD, the older N.Korean general is quite sympathetic, although I would be offended about Bond and the girl having sex in a church if it was in the Western countries. Clearly Graves/whatever is a renegade, crazy general, just as Orlov was in Octopussy, not meant to tarnish the entire country of the USSR, even in the cold war!

My point is, yes there have been some villians from these countries, but it's more balance than some suggest. I can't think of one good German character in these films (Helga Brandt, Stamper, Stromberg, Goldfinger, Ilse Bundt,etc), yet Germans haven't boycotted the films.

Sorry for all my off-topic, but as far as the middle east goes, I think it's just too touchy of a political area for the films to touch. THey go for topical, but not political.

[Spectre001]

Originally posted by templer1972
Bond versus middle eastern villian is a big mistake and if it really happen this going to be the first bond film which will be banned in most islamic country because of it subject matter.Look at film such as True Lies,Executive Decision and The Seige all three was banned is every muslim country and few asian islamic country ,and it really affected the overseas box office gross for this film.I strongly against the above ideas and dont want Brosnan final bond film becoming his lowest box office collection .

Who's to say that American, Austrailian and British box office sales wouldn't go through the roof though and make up for it?