13 replies to this topic

[R. Dittmar]

Got out to see it this afternoon and I’ll probably sneak out to see it again on Monday when the trouble and strife has to work and I don’t.

One thing did strike me. Two movies don’t make for much of a sample, but maybe there’s something about centering the plot around someone trying to get vengeance against M that blinds the producers to a chance for a better ending. What always massively disappointed me about TWINE was that the film didn’t end with a vicious brawl between Bond and Renard. I still can’t believe that they set up all that nonsense about not feeling pain and doomed to die at any minute from a bullet in the brain and didn’t have it lead to a big mano a mano fight.

There’s no blatant set up like this in SF, but when the end of Silva came I thought it kind of anti-climactic. It would have been OK had SF packed in a lot of earlier action set-tos but the movie is pretty light overall on the action front outside the PTS. I think the ending would have packed a much greater punch had it come at the end of long hand-to-hand between Bond and Silva. Silva was supposed to be an agent wasn’t he? Granted ending the movie that way would have been a little GoldenEye-ish, but it you dare to suggest TWINE you probably should take the chance to correct its biggest failing.

[JCRendle]

This isn't the spoiler thread! Not everyone has seen the film. Please delete your post and repost it in the spoiler section!!

[stromberg]

This isn't the spoiler thread! Not everyone has seen the film. Please delete your post and repost it in the spoiler section!!

No need to. Thread moved.

[R. Dittmar]

This isn't the spoiler thread! Not everyone has seen the film. Please delete your post and repost it in the spoiler section!!

No need to. Thread moved.

Thank you so much! I really wasn't trying to get anywhere near any spoilers, but I couldn't decide where to put it!

[Turn]

Got out to see it this afternoon and I’ll probably sneak out to see it again on Monday when the trouble and strife has to work and I don’t.

One thing did strike me. Two movies don’t make for much of a sample, but maybe there’s something about centering the plot around someone trying to get vengeance against M that blinds the producers to a chance for a better ending. What always massively disappointed me about TWINE was that the film didn’t end with a vicious brawl between Bond and Renard. I still can’t believe that they set up all that nonsense about not feeling pain and doomed to die at any minute from a bullet in the brain and didn’t have it lead to a big mano a mano fight.

There’s no blatant set up like this in SF, but when the end of Silva came I thought it kind of anti-climactic. It would have been OK had SF packed in a lot of earlier action set-tos but the movie is pretty light overall on the action front outside the PTS. I think the ending would have packed a much greater punch had it come at the end of long hand-to-hand between Bond and Silva. Silva was supposed to be an agent wasn’t he? Granted ending the movie that way would have been a little GoldenEye-ish, but it you dare to suggest TWINE you probably should take the chance to correct its biggest failing.

I though the same thing, that there should be this big takedown match between two bitter enemies, both hurt and fatigued, it could have made an interesting variation on the typical fight sequence. Silva should have met his demise in a different way.

[Cody]

I didn't mind the lack of a physical confrontation between Bond and Silva, Silva doesn't really seem like a fighter to me. And one good hit from Bond would probably make half his face collapse.

[Turn]

I didn't mind the lack of a physical confrontation between Bond and Silva, Silva doesn't really seem like a fighter to me. And one good hit from Bond would probably make half his face collapse.

The man was a trained Mi6 agent, that would mean he likely has some physical skills, besides that he's deranged. It isn't like when Dominic Greene took on Bond, who I thought he'd destroy with one punch, but put up quite a struggle. I was hoping Bardam would bring on some of his No Country For Old Men badassness for that scene.

[Cody]

I just can't imagine Silva being a physical badass at any point in his MI6 career. Bardem's a big guy, but the character comes off as rather soft. He's a techie, he'd rather be sitting at a computer, pointing and clicking than dealing with all this exhausting fighting and jumping.

[Double-0-Seven]

I actually liked it because they didn't have a fight. I was fully expecting a fight of sorts so it was actually a surprise to me that Bond simple threw a knife at him. More shocking I thought, You knew Bond was going to show up at the right time but not how he was going to take care of business. After Kincade showed him the weapons (or lack thereof) earlier and laid out the knife, it felt appropriate that that's how Silva met his demise.

[Joey Bond]

Craig's Bond is a very physical Bond so unless the villain is someone who matches him physically, a hand-to-hand climactic fight would become anti-climactic, like in Quantum of Solace where you're just waiting for Bond to disarm Greene from his axe then beat the crap out of him. The good twist here is therefore that Bond isn't going up against Silva in a hand-to-hand fight, but is rather racing against time to save M. We all know that once Bond catches up to Silva he will take care of him, but will he do it in time? Silva may have been an agent beforehand, but it is established that he older than Bond and relies more on his computer skills than his physical force.

[stamper]

Bond already fought me in TND, and I was the one who originally felt no pain (they deleted this bit from the film, but you can still clearly see I don't have a problem being stabbed in the end and I don't feel anything). Renard is a Z grade copycat. Not worthy of the fight I had with Bond.

[Iceskater101]

I understand what you mean by anti-climatic but think about it, it was still nerve racking that he was going after M. I think that replaced the climax of a big fight between Bond and Silva.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

I just can't imagine Silva being a physical badass at any point in his MI6 career. Bardem's a big guy, but the character comes off as rather soft. He's a techie, he'd rather be sitting at a computer, pointing and clicking than dealing with all this exhausting fighting and jumping.

 

Agreed. After all, he's the typical "mastermind on the chair" baddie a la Blofeld in a sense. Notice how he has hundereds and hundered goons during the Skyfall Lodge assault - he can't just go there alone to kill Bond and an old woman (and an old man if he knew Kincade was there).

 

On a side, yes, I'd have liked a 007 vs 006 fistfight like in GOLDENEYE, but I'm not disappointed here. Silva's objective was M, not Bond (he even tells one of his thugs "go see if Bond is alive" and "She's mine!" - which means, you distract/kill/fight Bond while I get M). And on a side note, I'm glad Bond killed the villain this time.

[plankattack]

There is one major difference in the two films - SF was clearly a conscious decision by the filmmakers not to end with a brawl. TWINE ends with a brawl - it's just not a very good one. A punch-up in a confined space normally works well - FRWL, OHMSS bedroom fight, DAF in the glass lift, GE - but it just didn't work in the submarine. The lack of floor hurt, and then the rods just got in the way. 

 

I will say that the lack of a good punch-up hurts TWINE more than SF. In TWINE it is the emotional climax of the story, killing Elektra and then Renard. In SF, the climax is the death of M, not the death of Silva.

 

By comparison, I always feel that the action climax of CR in the sinking house, while fairly exciting, always feels a bit too much. There, it's about Vesper, not Bond taking out a bunch of random bad guys.