23 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

Sorry, some of the recent Bond related things that have been revealed today, pretty much annoyed the hell out of me. I really need to rant.

Before I begin, I just want to say that I'm a massive Bond fan, and I totally love the Skyfall trailer, and my problem with James Bond doesn't lye with the actors, or the franchise itself. It's to do with the little care the producers seem to put into merchandising.

So, the Bond Blu Ray set was announced a while ago, and naturally, as a massive Bond fan, I'm planning to buy it. Today, the special features were released, and since it's the 50th Anniversary this year, you would think they would totally put loads of effort into it. New Deleted Scenes, Alternate endings (The Quantum of Solace one that was promised AGES ago that we still haven't seen), new Documentaries, Trailers, TV Spots, Featurettes, maybe get the old Bond actors to do a few Audio Commenteries, Roger Moore did one for all of his. But no, what do we get, a repackaged DVD set, upscaled to HD with NOTHING new. Granted, there is a bonus disc, an hour in length with 3 documentaries on them, but seriously. A 50 year old franchise, and thats the best they can do? Most of you probably think I'm over reacting, but it's insanely annoying. Then there's the whole thing about them always forgetting George Lazenby (There wasn't one single shot in that Blu Ray trailer from On Her Majesty's Secret Service), and if they do decide to include him in anything, then they throw him to the side with Timothy Dalton because they were 'the Bonds that did the least' and therefore should be forgotten.

Look at this Box Art...




Is there any reason why Dalton and Lazenby should be put in a different section? They were James Bond, so why are they not with the rest of the actors, in the gold section.

Then there's the whole thing about Activision. Yes, I really enjoyed GoldenEye Reloaded, and Bloodstone for that matter. Mainly because they actually tried to be different. They weren't generic first person shooters. Which 007 Legends looks like it's going to be. They always go on about having 'massive fans' in the studio, and that they've all watched the Bond films and want to make the best game ever. Try to then? There's nothing original about it at all. They've just used character models from GoldenEye Reloaded, because they're too lazy to make new ones. If I were in charge of Bond marketing. I'd try so much harder. Give the fans exactly what they want. Get George Lazenby to come back and to the voice work for a game adaptation of 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' and then get him to do a follow up game, avenging Tracey's death and bringing down Blofeld. All in third person, and relying on stealth over action. Not run in all guns blazing and killing everyone, because it's nothing fresh or nothing new. Why not getting Roger Moore back to do some voice work for a game adaptation of The Spy Who Loved Me? Everything or Nothing style. It's just annoying that they just bring out trash to celebrate a 50 year old franchise and don't take their time with it.

The only Bond thing thats coming out this year that looks remotely good is Skyfall, which looks amazing. Maybe also a few Bond books and such. Other than that, the producers aren't giving the fans what they want at all. They're just milking a 50 year old film series, and bringing out rubbish and it's annoying. James Bond deserves so much are and attention. Rant over.

Edited by Mharkin, 21 May 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[thecasinoroyale]

I can't really follow that with much, but I agree, and well said!

It's like George Lucas has snuck into the franchise and started the cash-cow milking on a much loved series. I hear you about that Blu-Ray set - such a big fuss about it and with nothing that is going to entice those with complete sets (well, maybe some!), but what we are getting for our money is shocking.

As for the games? Well they need to take time to think about how to craft a well thought out and paced Bond game rather than re-using old ideas and being quick to bring something out for the sake of the 50th. 'Blood Stone' had it in the game to do well, it just wasn't used to it's full advantage as a James Bond game, not an action shooter.

Apart from the 'Skyfall' teaser, quite dis-heartened with the 007: Legends reveal and the Blu-Ray content. For money to be well spent, I don't think the latter two will be unless they change our minds with a drastic addition before the releases.


And yes, the are 6 James Bond actors without one of them, we wouldn't be here now and the general public need to be reminded of this at times, and so do producers of Bond material / merchandise who feel ideas are dried up when there is so much out there.

[Miles Miservy]

Nah, I'll grant you that, Mharkin. Unlike most of the people I know. I bought most of my OO7 movies like I did my books; piecemeal... one at a time... as they were realeased. It started with VHS tapes when I was a kid and went from there. Fortunately I didn't succumb to the LaserDisc technology. I've one friend who calls them the "8-Tracks" of DVD's. I was certainly put off during the Brosnan era when the films became available in 3-Box sets. It seemed pointless to start all over again. Friends that know me had given me gifts, resulting in a few duplicates (some from the MGM Collection & some from the ULTIMATE COLLECTORS' SET).

I am a big fan of special editions. I enjoy the "Making of" documentaries, deleted scenes and commentaries (drives my family nuts). Although, some stuff is interesting, other stuff is not. For example, of the 2 copies of TSWLM that I have, one has a comentary w/ Sir Roger Moore. Thrilling prospect, I thought. But alas, Boring to tears. Also, 1 of the 2 copies of FYEO only offers a trailer for the PS2 game TOMORROW NEVER DIES. A duplicate copy of DAF has only trailers & coming attractions. If & when I break down & get a Blu-Ray player, I'll have to start all over again. So you get pretty much what you pay for. I feel that the new, "super, new-improved" box sets are market-targeted for those just starting their collection.

So, I agree with the comparison of DanJaq's marketing strategy with that of Goerge Lucas. I've often, in the past, compared STAR WARS to Cher; in that, no matter how many times you re-package her........

...she's STILL Cher.

[tdalton]

Is there any reason why Dalton and Lazenby should be put in a different section? They were James Bond, so why are they not with the rest of the actors, in the gold section.

I think because, like all merchandise EON puts out, it's geared towards the general audience. They know the fans will buy it (although I certainly wont' be). I think for the general audience, if OHMSS, TLD, and LTK were completely removed from the series, they wouldn't notice, and probably wouldn't care. Dalton and Lazenby don't register with the general audience because the media tells them that they shouldn't. I'm actually surprised that they're on the box at all, to be honest, and even less surprised that they gave Dalton the worst pose in the history of movie marketing.

The only Bond thing thats coming out this year that looks remotely good is Skyfall, which looks amazing. Maybe also a few Bond books and such. Other than that, the producers aren't giving the fans what they want at all. They're just milking a 50 year old film series, and bringing out rubbish and it's annoying. James Bond deserves so much are and attention. Rant over.

I think that this was to be expected, though. Nobody really ever does anything for the fans of the product. It's all about making money, and the Blu-ray set will make money, just like everything else they put out to celebrate the anniversary will. Until people stop buying the lackluster products that they put out, the quality will never improve.

[mttvolcano]

I must agree with all that has been said. I do agree they seem to not even remotely care about the fans but the general audience: typical movie goers and video game fanatics who really don't know too much of the series, a lot of the general video gamers quite honestly, probably don't even know there are Bond movies half the time.

[x007AceOfSpades]

I would actually like a Bond game in the vein of Splinter Cell - Stealth. More stealth and spy oriented and less Call Of Duty style. Because of the Bond fanboy in me I will get 007 Legends, but it does look generic. I'm surprised they couldn't just do an entire game adaption of Skyfall, but instead will include tidbits of it in 007 Legends.

[MarkA]

I think the trouble is you were all expecting too much from this set. When I knew weeks ago about the rumour of not upgrading the features to hi-res on the remaining blu-rays, like they did on the early releases, I knew this wasn't going to be great. Unfortunately over the years the Bond's have been flogged to death in various video versions and TV showings that the back catalogue sales commercially are not worth the extra cost of new extras. But what galls me is the cutting down of CR features and not releasing a special QS. Why? Because the extras exist. Cynical.

[stamper]

What do you mean, the documentaries will be upscaled / reedited like on the initial releases, (I mean the ones who didn't) right? There's no mention of them not being also upgraded.

It's more worrying that CR bonus second disc will not be included?

[Trevelyan 006]

If I were in charge of Bond marketing. I'd try so much harder. Give the fans exactly what they want. Get George Lazenby to come back and to the voice work for a game adaptation of 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' and then get him to do a follow up game, avenging Tracey's death and bringing down Blofeld. All in third person, and relying on stealth over action. Not run in all guns blazing and killing everyone, because it's nothing fresh or nothing new.

Shut up, and take my money Harkin! I'd nearly kill for this possibility.

The fact that George Lazenby and Timothy Dalton are repeatedly shunned from the James Bond limelight is absolutely ridiculous. Lazenby and Dalton should be equally commended for their respected places in the series. The fact that they are widely considered by the general masses and the marketing producers as 'those other guys' is what burns me the most to be quite frank. I find it unfair and annoying. I my opinion, it is their movies that are the gems of the series breaking things up when it was needed most, like a breath of fresh air after Connery, and a breath of fresh air after Moore. They too deserve better!

[MarkA]

What do you mean, the documentaries will be upscaled / reedited like on the initial releases, (I mean the ones who didn't) right? There's no mention of them not being also upgraded.

I am afraid on this very forum it has been rumoured the remaining ones won't be upscaled.

[Messervy]

OK, so let me get all this right: you're angry about the lack of extra features on a BR set, of which you don't like the look, and about a poor video game?
Well, that's a very light anger, I would say. Reading the title of the topic, I expected some big and large analysis of what could be made better with the Bond character and plots and cinematography and all...

Really, no offense meant, but this all looks like much ado about nothing.

[FOX MULDER]

I'm actually surprised that they're on the box at all, to be honest, and even less surprised that they gave Dalton the worst pose in the history of movie marketing.

After reading this and looking at the photo in the opening post, I swear I laughed for 60 seconds straight...

It is a terribly 'unfortunate' pose - are they implying Timothy Dalton is a "wanker"?

[tdalton]

I'm actually surprised that they're on the box at all, to be honest, and even less surprised that they gave Dalton the worst pose in the history of movie marketing.

After reading this and looking at the photo in the opening post, I swear I laughed for 60 seconds straight...

It is a terribly 'unfortunate' pose - are they implying Timothy Dalton is a "wanker"?

I guess we should all be pleased that they actually went with photos of the actors that were from actual posters or promotional shoots of them from their times as Bond, as opposed to those awfully photoshopped VHS covers from the mid-to-late 1990s and early 2000s. But, as with any photoshoot, there are always some outtakes that aren't good, or are awkward, or have some issue with them that make them not worth using in the finished product. They got great pictures of the rest of the Bonds, Lazenby included, but went with a horrible shot of Dalton for whatever reason. I actually think that Dalton's got some of the best promotional pictures of all of the Bonds (and I'm not just saying that because Dalton's my favorite), namely the pose used on the The Living Daylights DVD cover a while back and several of the Licence to Kill shots as well, and that's what they decide to go with.

[Pussfeller]

Ha, I just noticed. Poor Tim. He deserves better than that.

[thecasinoroyale]

Dalton has the best pose for a Bond from the standard DVD version of 'The Living Daylights', harkens back to Roger Moore's classic pose which they used on the Blu-Ray cover.

[larrythefatcat]

Dalton has the best pose for a Bond from the standard DVD version of 'The Living Daylights', harkens back to Roger Moore's classic pose which they used on the Blu-Ray cover.

That's the exact reason they didn't use it... it's too similar to Roger Moore's pose on the cover. It's unfortunate that they decided upon the pose they did, but they were just going for variety. *yuck*

Going back to Mharkin's OP, I have to point out that part of the gunbarrel from OHMSS is in the Blu-ray trailer... I'm surprised they put that much of it in there. I love the film, like so many others here, but it's just not what the general public wants to see when they want a Bond film... it seems the only two modes the general public will accept are "ridiculously campy" and "like totally gritty, you guys".

For the Blu-ray set, I'm hoping there are more specific details to be released due to there not being full info regarding every disc on that spec sheet. I'm not surprised if we are denied already completed bonus material for QoS, but it would have been a much better way to move some copies of this set to have some exclusive bonus material apart from some documentaries that are sure to have content most fans have seen 5 or more times previously. I'm also hoping to see fixes to the video of the remaining Blu-rays from the errors within their UE DVD counterparts and that the rumors of not having redone the documentaries in HD are false.

As for the Bond "vidya game" stuff... I just don't see it happening. First off, I don't see anybody making an OHMSS game unless it's a fan-based project. Any other games are going to be based upon the newest films or strange mish-mash original stories... FRWL was a fluke and I have a feeling Activision (for whatever reason) didn't think they had enough material to make a standalone game for Skyfall.

It's quite apparent, unless something MAJOR happens, that we're going to get mediocre-to-terrible FPS games (and the occasional mediocre-to-good TPS game) for as long as video gaming as we know it exists. FPS games have just been done so many times that they're getting easier and easier to throw together... the most time-consuming thing for developers seems to be a slight learning curve when a new engine is released, otherwise I'm sure a movie tie-in game could be completed within a month by a team of 20-50 people. It would be terrible, but it could definitely be done. I'm sure this MUST have been how the Battleship video game was made.

Edited by larrythefatcat, 22 May 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Joe Bond]

I agree with this as well. I would even go further and say that if we don't see any wide theatrical releases of some of the classics Bond movies over here in the States, at least DR. NO and CASINO ROYALE, I would be disappointed. Since most theaters have digital projector's it would be rather inexpensive to have a wide release of a classic Bond for one day and could be a great marketing opportunity for not only Skyfall but for the Bond 50 Blu-ray set. They could attach the trailer for Skyfall as well as the trailer for the Blu-ray set to it. I would think CASINO ROYALE could still make a lot of money if it were released as well. IF I get the box set it would be for the movies in HD and I certainly wouldn't get rid of my CR CE. I actually think the decision to not include the second disc for CR and not a new 2 Disc version of QOS is because of the packaging. According to the picture on Amazon.com it seems it's similar to the Alien Anthology with slots vs. hubs and it looks there is only one slot per movie so I would assume this packaging wouldn't work if they had two discs for CR and QOS. If it were me I would have just went with individual Blu-ray cases since there is no different in thickness between a case that has two discs and one so they could have included all of the bonus content. They SHOULD at least make the unavailable ones as retailer exclusives on the day the box set comes out. This allows fans to just buy the movies they want plus if they want an incentive for people to buy the box set they could use that extra 23rd disc as the incentive. From what I've read on this forum it seems fans who own the current Blu-ray's are going to wait and even I've read one of the people who runs the Home Theater Forum come out and complain about this issue as well (I believe he has contacted Fox/MGM about the issue). If I was a betting man I would say this box set may not do so well. Hopefully MGM gets this message early enough and decide to give the fans at least a game plan as to when they plan to release them individually. Here's a picture of the U.S. packaging: (the UK version will most likely differ)

[thecasinoroyale]

If you look above, at least they've changed Lazenby and Dalton into more respectable poses!!

Maybe EON are here...watching, listening to us...take note guys!

[DR76]

It's like George Lucas has snuck into the franchise and started the cash-cow milking on a much loved series.

This comment makes no sense to me.

[x007AceOfSpades]

It's like George Lucas has snuck into the franchise and started the cash-cow milking on a much loved series.

This comment makes no sense to me.

It actually does. All the home entertainment re-releases he's done in the last 10 years. Releasing the original trilogy on DVD in 2004 in a Boxset that's now rare. Re-released them again on DVD as the original versions with restored and un-altered crap (I.E. he took out certain scenes he added in back in 2004 in prep for the '05 release of Revenge Of The Sith. Taking out the scene of Hayden Christiansen standing next to Yoda, and Obi Wan at the end of Return Of the Jedi new CGI yoda, CGI effects, CGI Jaba, etc.) Released the original trilogy again for a limited time with no difference and no special features. The complete saga was just released on Blu-Ray with all 6 films, but not a complete saga on DVD, and the Blu-Ray versions had no difference in picture quality and were the same as the Remastered and restored original trilogy and the same as the DVD release of the prequel trilogy with very minor changes. Now he's re-releasing the films each year in 3D. He's a hack IMO. Can't do anything else but Star Wars. (sorry for the long post)

Edited by x007AceOfSpades, 22 May 2012 - 09:03 PM.

[00 Brosnan]

Is there any reason why Dalton and Lazenby should be put in a different section? They were James Bond, so why are they not with the rest of the actors, in the gold section.

Sorry, but this made me laugh...the gold section. Anyway, the other four actors are simply more recognizable in the role to the mainstream public and therefore more marketable than Lazenby or Dalton. No one is discounting their contributions to the franchise.

If I were in charge of Bond marketing. I'd try so much harder. Give the fans exactly what they want. Get George Lazenby to come back and to the voice work for a game adaptation of 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' and then get him to do a follow up game, avenging Tracey's death and bringing down Blofeld. All in third person, and relying on stealth over action.

The average age of gamers today is somewhere between 25-30 years of age, but like most "Teen" rated series the demographic targeted ranges from about pre-teen to adult.

A game based on On Her Majesty's Secret Service starring George Lazenby would fail....hard. The videogame market is in transition right now and developers can't afford (literally) to take risks anymore. Lazenby just isn't recognizable to young people who aren't big Bond fans, plain and simple. You would be surprised at the number of people who buy Bond videogames who have only seen 2 or 3 films, if that. They buy them for the shooting and the action.

As far as Activision goes, well Bloodstone was a good attempt at something a little different, but ultimately it came up short, literally. GoldenEye Reloaded was simply boring & outdated Call of Duty gameplay with Bond in generic locales (minus the first quarter of the opening level) not found anywhere in GoldenEye the film or the original N64 game.

From what I've seen of 007 Legends so far, I'm pretty disappointed.

[SecretAgentFan]

I posted this on the blu ray-thread - but it really belongs here (sorry):


Well, first of all: Yes! Mharkin is absolutely right.

At the moment, it also seems to me that the marketing of the anniversary is severely lacking.

Granted, the Blu-Ray-Box was announced at the start of the year - which gave out the feeling that they would really give the fans what they want. But then... months of nothing. And the announcement of the extras was a huge letdown - or was it? This "oh, it´s not the complete list of extras, we´re giving that one out soon" does reek of mismanagement. Why give out an incomplete "complete list"? Did they notice that fans have reacted with a shrug? Are they frantically putting out new stuff on the discs now? And don´t get me started on the poses of Lazenby and Dalton. While I can swallow that they did the least Bond films of all actors and were therefore positioned at the outer rim, did really nobody notice their weird poses before the first cover art was accepted? At least, that awkwardness has been corrected. The coloring ("hey, Lazenby and Dalton are not our golden boys", it seems to say) should also be corrected but... well, that would be not a dealbreaker for me.

Then, using this sleeve-book might be saving space. But I did not like it with previous box sets and I don´t prefer it here. It will tear or damage the discs. And why the hell was not a separate release of all titles on BD announced? Are they so desperate to get this box over the counter?

C´mon, EON. We´re the most dedicated and loyal fans to your franchise. Give us some respect.

[larrythefatcat]

It's like George Lucas has snuck into the franchise and started the cash-cow milking on a much loved series.

This comment makes no sense to me.

It actually does. All the home entertainment re-releases he's done in the last 10 years. Releasing the original trilogy on DVD in 2004 in a Boxset that's now rare. Re-released them again on DVD as the original versions with restored and un-altered crap (I.E. he took out certain scenes he added in back in 2004 in prep for the '05 release of Revenge Of The Sith. Taking out the scene of Hayden Christiansen standing next to Yoda, and Obi Wan at the end of Return Of the Jedi new CGI yoda, CGI effects, CGI Jaba, etc.) Released the original trilogy again for a limited time with no difference and no special features. The complete saga was just released on Blu-Ray with all 6 films, but not a complete saga on DVD, and the Blu-Ray versions had no difference in picture quality and were the same as the Remastered and restored original trilogy and the same as the DVD release of the prequel trilogy with very minor changes. Now he's re-releasing the films each year in 3D. He's a hack IMO. Can't do anything else but Star Wars. (sorry for the long post)

I think you must be smoking something... Hayden Christensen was put into the end of 'Jedi' in 2004 and it's been that way ever since. The terrible Laserdisc-quality release of the Unaltered Original Trilogy came as SPECIAL FEATURE discs with the 2004 editions in 2006.

The Blu-ray discs for the Star Wars films are actually upgraded from the masters from the 2004 DVD release, but it's annoying that new scans weren't made for future releases (such as the inevitable 4K release down the road). There are minor changes, but some of those changes are actually pretty cringe-worthy... the Darth Vader "no"s near the end of 'Jedi' are the most obnoxious and the randomly blinking Ewoks are just (more) creepy and pointless. Episode I was also given a new transfer that actually let viewers see the WHOLE FRAME and not have to feel like they were viewing the whole film through rose-colored glasses. Episodes II and III are "SOL" due to their being shot at HD video resolution (roughly 1920x816... not quite 1080p due to the aspect ratio being 2.35:1 as opposed to 16:9)... there was really nothing that could be done there.

Thankfully, the only annoying thing we've gotten in recent Bond DVD and Blu-ray releases (apart from obvious technical mistakes) are some STRANGE choices with the color timing... I know that the beginning of OHMSS was all over the place lighting-wise, but giving everything a "day-for-night" blue tinge just doesn't "fix" anything. I also swear that I must be the only one who's noticed the ridiculously strong green tint on the scene with Blofeld in drag from DAF on the UE DVD.

I thank the Lord above that George Lucas hasn't actually gotten his mitts onto the Bond franchise... that would suck beyond measure.

Edited by larrythefatcat, 24 May 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[x007AceOfSpades]

It's like George Lucas has snuck into the franchise and started the cash-cow milking on a much loved series.

This comment makes no sense to me.

It actually does. All the home entertainment re-releases he's done in the last 10 years. Releasing the original trilogy on DVD in 2004 in a Boxset that's now rare. Re-released them again on DVD as the original versions with restored and un-altered crap (I.E. he took out certain scenes he added in back in 2004 in prep for the '05 release of Revenge Of The Sith. Taking out the scene of Hayden Christiansen standing next to Yoda, and Obi Wan at the end of Return Of the Jedi new CGI yoda, CGI effects, CGI Jaba, etc.) Released the original trilogy again for a limited time with no difference and no special features. The complete saga was just released on Blu-Ray with all 6 films, but not a complete saga on DVD, and the Blu-Ray versions had no difference in picture quality and were the same as the Remastered and restored original trilogy and the same as the DVD release of the prequel trilogy with very minor changes. Now he's re-releasing the films each year in 3D. He's a hack IMO. Can't do anything else but Star Wars. (sorry for the long post)

I think you must be smoking something... Hayden Christensen was put into the end of 'Jedi' in 2004 and it's been that way ever since. The terrible Laserdisc-quality release of the Unaltered Original Trilogy came as SPECIAL FEATURE discs with the 2004 editions in 2006..

I think I worded it wrong. I know He was put into it in the 2004 Original Trilogy Boxset, then in 2006 removed as Lucas restored the films as they actually were. Sorry for that.