61 replies to this topic

[Raziel]

Dalton could have easily been the best or 2nd best Bond actor, had things turned out to be a bit different in his favour. He was offered the role twice, once even when he was in his early twenties. He was then a Shakespearean theater actor. When he finally took up the role, he had to battle against not one but two major icons who had sunk their feet too deep into the franchise by then. The same decade also witnessed three Bond actors in (including Connery's Never Say Never Again) various movies . The expectations were reasonably high. There must be a kind of image you have in your mind when you think of James bond. With Dalton all that changes, he has the look of someone that resembles a cold blooded assassin but also doesn't downplay the playful side of Bond and in effect turns out to do a damn serious interpretation of Fleming's work which would have made Fleming turn in his grave asking who the hell the Welshman was?
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http://pensorswords....bond-actor.html

[Murcaldy]

If could he? He already is!

Edited by Murcaldy, 02 October 2011 - 05:58 PM.

[Major Tallon]

He gets my vote as well.

[mttvolcano]

Imagine if he took the offer for OHMSS and went all the way to Goldeneye?

[TCK]

Imagine if he took the offer for OHMSS and went all the way to Goldeneye?

If it had been the case, he would have only done On her Majesty's secret service, because nobody could have replaced Sean Connery as 007 after You only live twice. In 1969, the role of James Bond was... how do you say in the UK, the Old maid... ? The one who gets it loses.

[00 Brosnan]

All the actors that have played Bond have brought their own flavor to the role and while I enjoy Dalton's interpretation of the role, he isn't my favorite. So, I'm going to have to say "no" to answer your question, but you never know. He only did 2 films.

In fact, I'd rank them Brosnan > Moore > Connery > Craig > Dalton > Lazenby.

There must be a kind of image you have in your mind when you think of James bond.

Yes, and for me that image is Pierce Brosnan. Nothing is ever going to change that. He's my generation's Bond. I can't help it.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

As someone who grow up in the 90s, I can assume I'm in your generation, and I can assure you that you don't speak for the entire generation.

[mttvolcano]

As someone who grow up in the 90s, I can assume I'm in your generation, and I can assure you that you don't speak for the entire generation.

Same here...

[S.P.E.C.T.R.E_Agent_44]

I Think Along With Craig, And Lazenby, Timothy Dalton Was One Of The More Emotionally Involved Bonds Within The Series, Which I Think Is Utterly Important When You Go Back To The Novels Themselves. Emotion Was Definitely An Aspect Of Fleming's Novels. I've Really Come To Appreciate Dalton As Bond, And Do Often Wish We Would Of Saw More Of Him. Even Still, It's Just In My Personal Opinion.

[00 Brosnan]

As someone who grow up in the 90s, I can assume I'm in your generation, and I can assure you that you don't speak for the entire generation.

Did I say I did? No.

I said "I" can't help it. His image is what pops into "my" head when I think of James Bond. Didn't think I needed to further elaborate a very basic comment.

[Murcaldy]

Dalton is terrific, Brosnan just terrible.

Edited by Murcaldy, 04 October 2011 - 01:30 AM.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

As someone who grow up in the 90s, I can assume I'm in your generation, and I can assure you that you don't speak for the entire generation.

Did I say I did? No.

I said "I" can't help it. His image is what pops into "my" head when I think of James Bond. Didn't think I needed to further elaborate a very basic comment.

You were right the first time- no elaboration needed. I didn't mean to imply you were speaking for a generation, I was just highlighting not everyone is attached to the generation of Bond they grew up with. I thought the smiley would've been a hint it wasn't worth getting your knickers in a knot over.

[SecretAgentFan]

As someone who grow up in the 90s, I can assume I'm in your generation, and I can assure you that you don't speak for the entire generation.

True. But the first Bond actor one sees definitely influences your opinion on the character. My first Bond was Roger Moore. And while I do appreciate all the other Bonds extremely (and find some even better) Sir Roger will always be what I first think of when I hear the name James Bond.

Returning to this thread´s title: I could truly imagine that Dalton could have become a much more loved Bond if... he had been able to do at least two more films AND an easier decade to be Bond in. When Dalton took over he just sailed right into a certain mindset where audiences thought Bond was outdated and tired. He just did not get the chance to prove himself the way Brosnan did, making the character return when audiences wanted to embrace Bond again.

[Drumm09]

Dalton could have easily been the best or 2nd best Bond actor, had things turned out to be a bit different in his favour. He was offered the role twice, once even when he was in his early twenties. He was then a Shakespearean theater actor. When he finally took up the role, he had to battle against not one but two major icons who had sunk their feet too deep into the franchise by then. The same decade also witnessed three Bond actors in (including Connery's Never Say Never Again) various movies . The expectations were reasonably high. There must be a kind of image you have in your mind when you think of James bond. With Dalton all that changes, he has the look of someone that resembles a cold blooded assassin but also doesn't downplay the playful side of Bond and in effect turns out to do a damn serious interpretation of Fleming's work which would have made Fleming turn in his grave asking who the hell the Welshman was?
Read the full story:
http://pensorswords....bond-actor.html

What do you mean "Could" have been the best Bond. He "Was" the best Bond in my opinion. He is the classic case of quality vs quantity. Even thuogh he only did two movies, his interpretation of Fleming'c characther was awesome. Both in terms of looks and in terms of acting.

Now Of course, I have enjoyed all actors who have portrayed 007. Some I like mroe tha other, but each actor has brought his own touch. But Dalton remains the top dog so far.

That whole lawsuit after Licence to Kill with MGM and Pinewood was so unfair.

[Bondian]

Mrs Bondian has always said that she feels (in what whay I asked) that Timmy D was the face of the literacy Bond she'd never read. She does not like Sean (or as she pronounces it as "seen") at all.

IMHO, Tim did a great job as Bond and gave the character more depth.

We're now divorced and have married Pierce Brosnan.

Sank you.

Cheers,

Ian

[robdread]

As someone who grow up in the 90s, I can assume I'm in your generation, and I can assure you that you don't speak for the entire generation.

True. But the first Bond actor one sees definitely influences your opinion on the character. My first Bond was Roger Moore. And while I do appreciate all the other Bonds extremely (and find some even better) Sir Roger will always be what I first think of when I hear the name James Bond.

Returning to this thread´s title: I could truly imagine that Dalton could have become a much more loved Bond if... he had been able to do at least two more films AND an easier decade to be Bond in. When Dalton took over he just sailed right into a certain mindset where audiences thought Bond was outdated and tired. He just did not get the chance to prove himself the way Brosnan did, making the character return when audiences wanted to embrace Bond again.

Agreed. The first Bond film I saw in the theaters was a Roger Moore one, so he'll always be a sentimental favorite. But "favorite" and "best" are two very different creatures.
I really enjoyed Dalton's more intense take on the character (he played the character closer to Fleming's Bond than any of the others). It's truly a pity he didn't at least get to do that third film. Personally, I think it's a tossup between Connery and Dalton for being the BEST, but Moore is easily my FAVORITE.

[LTK_(1989)]

With Dalton all that changes, he has the look of someone that resembles a cold blooded assassin but also doesn't downplay the playful side of Bond and in effect turns out to do a damn serious interpretation of Fleming's work which would have made Fleming turn in his grave asking who the hell the Welshman was?
Read the full story:
http://pensorswords....bond-actor.html

All I get from reading that quote is a fundamental misunderstanding of Fleming's work and the James Bond character. I cannot think of a single moment of Dalton's performance that would have sent Fleming spinning in his grave.

Secondly, Dalton seems to be the actor that is most "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't." To some, Dalton isn't fun at all. He's not funny and he's too serious; to others, like you, Dalton doesn't play down the playful side of Bond enough, effectively being another Roger Moore. Both interpretations are fringe sentiments that I do not subscribe to in the least - Dalton's performance was a fantastic balancing act of portraying Fleming's literary Bond on the 1980s' big screen.

When all is said and done; the question "could Dalton have been the best Bond" is baseless because Dalton is the best Bond.... In my view - but that's kind of the beauty of the whole thing, isn't it? There's a Bond for everyone. Someone's worst Bond is another's best Bond.

Edited by LTK_(1989), 05 October 2011 - 10:14 PM.

[Scottlee]

IMO Dalton was better than Brosnan. If Dalton had done 4 or 5 movies I think he would probably have been regarded as one of the best. People were stubborn to accept anyone bar Connery for decades, no matter who they were.

[marktmurphy]

Dalton's good, but he lacks self confidence somehow, which is what Bond needs. There's no swagger there.
As I often say, Bond should believe with utter certainty that he has the biggest balls in the room. Sean, George, Pierce and Daniel all have that; Tim doesn't convince me that he does.

He also doesn't seem to be having enough fun, and he's a little absent in the charisma stakes (which is odd because he's often a big presence in other movies). So no; too much stuff missing to make him best Bond for me.

[d21089]

I was born in the 90's (EDIT: October 89... but i grew up in the nineties ) and watched the Brosnan films, but i watched older ones with my grandma before I watched them- the first I watched was From Russia With love and read some of the books before i saw i guess TND would have been the first- and in the end Dalton ended up as my favourite, i dont know if hes the best, but he's the one i connect with most- he is definitely not macho or as egotistical. I never really clicked with Brosnan or the Bond movies he was in and he is my least favourite-

While he was right to knock back OHMSS because he was too young and noone could replace Sean at the time, I have no doubt that that script would have been great with him in it

for me early Connery is probably the best Bond (thru to Thunderball), but Dalton is still my favourite

Edited by d21089, 01 November 2011 - 05:01 AM.

[SG007]

i have absolutly no doubt that dalton is the best bond, hands down

[DamnCoffee]

Dalton from For Your Eyes Only to Die Another Day would've been brilliant. Brosnan for me, was the worst Bond. Even though I have a soft spot for him, since he was my Bond, I still would take Dalton over him any day. Sorry Brozza!

Edited by Mharkin, 13 November 2011 - 10:29 PM.

[byline]

I was born in the 90's (EDIT: October 89... but i grew up in the nineties ) and watched the Brosnan films, but i watched older ones with my grandma before I watched them- the first I watched was From Russia With love and read some of the books before i saw i guess TND would have been the first- and in the end Dalton ended up as my favourite, i dont know if hes the best, but he's the one i connect with most- he is definitely not macho or as egotistical. I never really clicked with Brosnan or the Bond movies he was in and he is my least favourite-

While he was right to knock back OHMSS because he was too young and noone could replace Sean at the time, I have no doubt that that script would have been great with him in it

for me early Connery is probably the best Bond (thru to Thunderball), but Dalton is still my favourite

I agree with this completely . . . though I wouldn't have minded seeing Dalton take over with "For Your Eyes Only"; Moore did a great job, but IMO he was just too old for the role by that point.

[Chemateo]

The best Bond? Probably not. I think it is so engraved in the public's mindset that Connery is the best and then there is the rest. Now I do believe that Dalton's tenure could have been remembered more fondly and there could have been less revisionist history if Dalton got to do more films and entered under different circumstances. It would not have taken CR and Daniel Craig to find people reassessing and starting appreciate Dalton's take on the role.

As has been stated, Dalton took over the PPK when the Bond franchise had been overexposed and over saturated. It did not matter who took over the mantle, Brosnan could have had it back in 87 and the same old routine and lawsuit would have occurred. There was no break or breathing room for the drastic change in tone of the films or character either. LTK was such a strong shock for the Moore audience Dalton inherited. Not to mention, I think LTK fails in setting out in its mission.

Dalton got cut off at the knees. The ideal way I would like to have seen things play out is after FYEO the lawsuit happens. Roger hangs up the PPK. Broccoli finally gets Dalton and TLD goes on in 87. To follow up they needed some fresh talent. Obviously EON had their eyes on the competition and looked to bring some of it in. For LTK, EON hired Michael Kamen, Robert Davi, Grand L. Bush, and Jodie Tillen. But why not poach what is really important, a good screenwriter.

Shane Black. Let Dick Maibaum and Shane Black write Bond 16. I think LTK proves that Michael G. Wilson was not the best writer and that clearly Maibaum was carrying Wilson during the 80s. Shane Black could have brought a fun and dangerous edge to the film. Dalton never said he wanted to play it grim and without laughs. All Dalton said was that he wanted a little harder edge with the fantasy like the early Connery films. Wilson went off in another direction and did not know how to write the right type of film. Glen's directing or lack thereof did not help matters either. I think Soto and definitely Lowell have talked about how Glen was not really an actor's director and that Glen seemed more concern with coordinating the action sequences than directing a performance and dealing with character development. Get a competent director! Tony Scott would have been nice. Even Ted Kotcheff, who has enough good will with me for First Blood despite what some may think of Weekend at Bernie's, would have been a better choice. Bond 16 did not need to be rushed. The Bond films usually benefit with the grace of time on their side, so Bond 16 written by Shane Black and Maibaum directed by Tony Scott in 1990 could have been terrific.

Follow that up with Bond 17 in 1992 written by Jeffery Boam in time for the 30th Anniversary of James Bond could have been a fun gala. Dalton could finally go out on a high note with GoldenEye in 94 as written by France and co-starring Hopkins as was intended. If things turned out like that I think audiences would have gotten a chance to get more familiar with Dalton (it is four film instead of two after all), let him have some fun with the role & let his charisma shine through, have better material to work with, and better talent behind the camera could have really helped.

I can see that potential in Dalton in TLD. It is a shame it never fully got realized. It is painful to think of what could have been. Dalton deserved better.

[Trevelyan 006]

I Can Say That There Isn't A Day That Goes By That I Don't Wish Dalton Would Have Been In Atleast One More Bond Film. He's The Bond We Needed After Moore, He Was The Transitional Bond, And He Definitely Helped Keep Bond Concurrent With The Times. If Only Him And Laz Did A Few More, My Life As A Bond Fan Would Be Complete.

[Pussfeller]

Just imagine if he'd accepted Cubby's original offer in 1968. How different the world would have been...

[TCK]

Just imagine if he'd accepted Cubby's original offer in 1968. How different the world would have been...

He was very young at that time. Have you seen him in The lion in winter ? I just can't imagine a 20-year-old 007. In all honesty, I admire Timothy Dalton, he's my favourite James Bond, but he wouldn't have worked in 1968. I'm persuaded after Sean Connery left the part, being 007 was the Old Maid. Whoever gets it loses. Timothy Dalton, Oliver Reed, Jeremy Brett... They would have all been "a George Lazenby".

[SecretAgentFan]

Dalton's good, but he lacks self confidence somehow, which is what Bond needs. There's no swagger there.
As I often say, Bond should believe with utter certainty that he has the biggest balls in the room. Sean, George, Pierce and Daniel all have that; Tim doesn't convince me that he does.

He also doesn't seem to be having enough fun, and he's a little absent in the charisma stakes (which is odd because he's often a big presence in other movies). So no; too much stuff missing to make him best Bond for me.

I think you´re right. Although I love Dalton in the role, he came across as a Bond who is bitter, not really comfortable with his job. Self-confidence and swagger, yep, that is not present in Dalton´s portrayal.

[tdalton]

Dalton's good, but he lacks self confidence somehow, which is what Bond needs. There's no swagger there.
As I often say, Bond should believe with utter certainty that he has the biggest balls in the room. Sean, George, Pierce and Daniel all have that; Tim doesn't convince me that he does.

He also doesn't seem to be having enough fun, and he's a little absent in the charisma stakes (which is odd because he's often a big presence in other movies). So no; too much stuff missing to make him best Bond for me.

I think you´re right. Although I love Dalton in the role, he came across as a Bond who is bitter, not really comfortable with his job. Self-confidence and swagger, yep, that is not present in Dalton´s portrayal.

I think that this is more of his Bond being more world weary than the others rather than lacking a self-confidence. I always got the impression that Dalton's Bond was confident in his own abilities, but, as you said, is bitter and perhaps even resentful towards his line of work (and more specifically, those who he has to deal with while on the job), which is understandable given the things that Bond has been through up to that point (namely the death of Tracy). I get the feeling that he doesn't like dealing with the bureaucracy of the job (his dealings with M, Saunders, and Felix's CIA "friends" come to mind), but when left to his own devices, he's confident in his abilities.

[Trevelyan 006]

Dalton's good, but he lacks self confidence somehow, which is what Bond needs. There's no swagger there.
As I often say, Bond should believe with utter certainty that he has the biggest balls in the room. Sean, George, Pierce and Daniel all have that; Tim doesn't convince me that he does.

He also doesn't seem to be having enough fun, and he's a little absent in the charisma stakes (which is odd because he's often a big presence in other movies). So no; too much stuff missing to make him best Bond for me.

I think you´re right. Although I love Dalton in the role, he came across as a Bond who is bitter, not really comfortable with his job. Self-confidence and swagger, yep, that is not present in Dalton´s portrayal.

I think that this is more of his Bond being more world weary than the others rather than lacking a self-confidence. I always got the impression that Dalton's Bond was confident in his own abilities, but, as you said, is bitter and perhaps even resentful towards his line of work (and more specifically, those who he has to deal with while on the job), which is understandable given the things that Bond has been through up to that point (namely the death of Tracy). I get the feeling that he doesn't like dealing with the bureaucracy of the job (his dealings with M, Saunders, and Felix's CIA "friends" come to mind), but when left to his own devices, he's confident in his abilities.

I Believe tdalton Is Spot-On With This One, Sounds Right To Me Anyways..