22 replies to this topic

[mattjoes]

I'm trying to expand on my so far fairly limited musical knowledge. Could somebody lend me a hand with the following?

In track 1 of the expanded OST of You Only Live Twice:
What instrument plays the descending countermelody (first heard at 0:25)?

In track 13:
What instruments are heard in the gunbarrel music (0:00 to 0:23)?
What is that instrument first heard at 7:26 (the one that plays a C three times)?

Thanks in advance.

[The Shark]

In track 1 of the expanded OST of You Only Live Twice:
What instrument plays the descending countermelody (first heard at 0:25)?

Assuming you're talking about 'James Bond in Japan' here, that's 2nd violins (1st violins play the main theme doubled in octaves) possibly doubled with violas. They could be muted, which gives you that soft sound by reducing the number of harmonics produced.

In track 13:
What instruments are heard in the gunbarrel music (0:00 to 0:23)?

There's most likely 2 piccolos (or 4), 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 4 horns, 3 trumpets, 3 trombones, 1 tuba, drum kit (just snare drum, kick drum and ride cymbal), harp, electric guitar (slight palm muting involved), and a few strings. Possibly solo double bass.

Either way, it's a small orchestra, but playing very loud, and recorded very loud.

What is that instrument first heard at 7:26 (the one that plays a C three times).

Marimba.

In future it might be more helpful if you simply gave the name of the track, rather than the track number.

[mattjoes]

In track 1 of the expanded OST of You Only Live Twice:
What instrument plays the descending countermelody (first heard at 0:25)?

Assuming you're talking about 'James Bond in Japan' here, that's 2nd violins (1st violins play the main theme doubled in octaves) possibly doubled with violas. They could be muted, which gives you that soft sound by reducing the number of harmonics produced.

Actually, by track 1 I meant You Only Live Twice, the title song. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for the answers. How does one esteem the number of instruments, anyway?

[The Shark]

In track 1 of the expanded OST of You Only Live Twice:
What instrument plays the descending countermelody (first heard at 0:25)?

Assuming you're talking about 'James Bond in Japan' here, that's 2nd violins (1st violins play the main theme doubled in octaves) possibly doubled with violas. They could be muted, which gives you that soft sound by reducing the number of harmonics produced.

Actually, by track 1 I meant You Only Live Twice, the title song. Sorry for the confusion.

That's the electric guitar (played by Vic Flick), with a fuzz or compressor pedal of some sort.

Thanks for the answers. How does one esteem the number of instruments, anyway?

I partly got it from the www.johnbarry.org.uk site, which had some photos of John Barry conducting YOLT at the CTS Bayswater studios, along with listings of who played the instruments. That, along with studying some of his scores.

[Achille Aubergine]

Ask to Virgosy. He's an expert for these questions.

[The Shark]

Let me know if you have any more questions of the musical kind. I'm more than happy to help.

[mattjoes]

Let me know if you have any more questions of the musical kind. I'm more than happy to help.

Thank you.

It's common knowledge that something in which Barry was vastly superior to Arnold was his ability to make each Bond score unique and easily distinguishable from the others. What would you say makes the scores from Goldfinger to Diamonds Are Forever (probably his most creative period) unique in terms of instrumentation? On Her Majesty's Secret Service would be the easiest one to figure out I guess, with its use of Moog synthesizers and alpine horns.

[00Twelve]

If I can jump in, I would say about the GF-DAF stretch that Barry was very particular about each score being unique to the atmosphere of each film. GF uses swanky, jazzy brass to compliment the smoothly operating Goldfinger, with some local sounds thrown in for atmosphere (i.e., banjo in KY). His use of mellow flutter-tongued flute characterizes TB, complimenting the slow pace of underwater movement that dominates much of the action. Barry uses some pentatonic scale to give YOLT its Asian flare, plucked strings being used very often as it evokes a more folksy atmosphere. DAF returns to the swanky jazz, partly because it reminds of Vegas big bands, partly because the producers wanted that film to specifically feel like Goldfinger.

How pretentious do I sound?

[The Shark]

Let me know if you have any more questions of the musical kind. I'm more than happy to help.

Thank you.

It's common knowledge that something in which Barry was vastly superior to Arnold was his ability to make each Bond score unique and easily distinguishable from the others. What would you say makes the scores from Goldfinger to Diamonds Are Forever (probably his most creative period) unique in terms of instrumentation?

Very good question. A very complex one too.

The differences are mostly subtle, and a lot of it in the advancement of the recording/mixing technology too. A gradual progression from 3-track (FRWL) all the way to 8 track (DAF), giving a much fuller sound.

First off, one must establish the constants from 63-71. All of those Bond scores were recorded at CTS Bayswater, which had a very distinctive sound. Lots of natural reverb and decay; great acoustics. 1-2 harps, 1-2 vibraphones, marimba, xylophone, piano, 4 flutes (all doubling on alto flutes, c flutes and piccolos), small reed section in 2 (2 oboes (2nd doubling on cor anglais)), 1-3 saxes (except in YOLT), 4-6 horns, 3-4 trumpets, and trombones from 3 to 5 (probably 1 or 2 bass trombones in the later), EEb tuba, electric guitar, electric bass, solo acoustic bass, timpani, 1 large tam-tam (proper name for gong), tambourine, bass drum, drum kit, snare drum, suspended cymbal, bongos, finger cymbals, and a gradually expanding string section.

In fact, the main progression between 63-71 is one of size and variation in colour.

Most of the difference in timbre is down to the prominence he gives certain instruments. In many cases, he'll introduce instruments (not always for local colours) for particular films, and keep reusing them. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE he has the cimbalom, tambourine and finger cymbals, providing an ethnic sound for the Gypsy camp scenes. Barry used the finger cymbals and tambourine again for GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS and DAF - most memorably using the finger cymbals as a leitmotif for for Oddjob. Barry gave us the classic Bond sonority with plunger muted trumpets in GF, using that until Connery left. Straight mutes for trumpets and trombones. Solo harmon muted trumpet typically for sleazy scenes (such as Bond's seduction of Jill, Fiona, Helga and Tiffany) and certain moments in GF (such as when Bond's radar map flashes at the begining of Alpine Drive, and when Big Ben is sighted at the end of Golden Girl). Harpsichord for TB and YOLT, doubled with the low registers of the piano and harp in the former. Japanese koto for YOLT. Moog synthesiser for OHMSS and DAF.

Overall, I'd say its rare to find a Bond score in this period that uses instruments entirely unique to one score. Most of their individuality is not down to token instruments, but combinations of instruments, predominance of certain instrumental groups, and recurring harmonic ideas.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service would be the easiest one to figure out I guess, with its use of Moog synthesizers and alpine horns.

Be careful about using the term alpine horns, people could thinking you're talking about alphorns. Which aren't heard in the score, but are perhaps alluded to by Barry's use of french horns.

His use of mellow flutter-tongued flute characterizes TB,

Actually flutter-tongued flutes and alto flutes characterise all of Barry's Bond scores from 64-69.

[mattjoes]

If I can jump in, I would say about the GF-DAF stretch that Barry was very particular about each score being unique to the atmosphere of each film. GF uses swanky, jazzy brass to compliment the smoothly operating Goldfinger, with some local sounds thrown in for atmosphere (i.e., banjo in KY). His use of mellow flutter-tongued flute characterizes TB, complimenting the slow pace of underwater movement that dominates much of the action. Barry uses some pentatonic scale to give YOLT its Asian flare, plucked strings being used very often as it evokes a more folksy atmosphere. DAF returns to the swanky jazz, partly because it reminds of Vegas big bands, partly because the producers wanted that film to specifically feel like Goldfinger.

Some good points here. I have to say I had always believed the bold, jazzy style of Goldfinger was just Barry's approach to scoring an outlandish film after the lower-key From Russia with Love, rather than something inspired by or based on the Goldfinger character. But your explanation would certainly make thematic sense; after all, the film is titled Goldfinger, and when it was released it featured the most prominent villain in the series so far (it probably still holds up in that regard).

The differences are mostly subtle, and a lot of it in the advancement of the recording/mixing technology too. A gradual progression from 3-track (FRWL) all the way to 8 track (DAF), giving a much fuller sound.

Well, if one compares the 2003 issues of the Thunderball and Diamonds Are Forever soundtracks, the sound of the latter appears to be wider and richer. Diamonds Are Forever was the last Bond score to be recorded at Bayswater, wasn't it?

First off, one must establish the constants from 63-71. All of those Bond scores were recorded at CTS Bayswater, which had a very distinctive sound. Lots of natural reverb and decay; great acoustics. 1-2 harps, 1-2 vibraphones, marimba, xylophone, piano, 4 flutes (all doubling on alto flutes, c flutes and piccolos), small reed section in 2 (2 oboes (2nd doubling on cor anglais)), 1-3 saxes (except in YOLT), 4-6 horns, 3-4 trumpets, and trombones from 3 to 5 (probably 1 or 2 bass trombones in the later), EEb tuba, electric guitar, electric bass, solo acoustic bass, timpani, 1 large tam-tam (proper name for gong), tambourine, bass drum, drum kit, snare drum, suspended cymbal, bongos, finger cymbals, and a gradually expanding string section.

In fact, the main progression between 63-71 is one of size and variation in colour.

Most of the difference in timbre is down to the prominence he gives certain instruments. In many cases, he'll introduce instruments (not always for local colours) for particular films, and keep reusing them. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE he has the cimbalom, tambourine and finger cymbals, providing an ethnic sound for the Gypsy camp scenes. Barry used the finger cymbals and tambourine again for GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS and DAF - most memorably using the finger cymbals as a leitmotif for for Oddjob. Barry gave us the classic Bond sonority with plunger muted trumpets in GF, using that until Connery left. Straight mutes for trumpets and trombones. Solo harmon muted trumpet typically for sleazy scenes (such as Bond's seduction of Jill, Fiona, Helga and Tiffany) and certain moments in GF (such as when Bond's radar map flashes at the begining of Alpine Drive, and when Big Ben is sighted at the end of Golden Girl). Harpsichord for TB and YOLT, doubled with the low registers of the piano and harp in the former. Japanese koto for YOLT. Moog synthesiser for OHMSS and DAF.

Very interesting. This certainly helps gaining a clearer perspective.

... Goldfinger, the Bond film where, in terms of style, all the codes and references found their place: the gun-sights, the opening sequence, the animated main-title, Peter Hunt's editing... It was also the first Bond where I had sole responsibility for the music; so I was able to assert a compositional style inspired by what I learned from Bill Russo, Stan Kenton's arranger: a particular way of adapting the brass right across the register from the deepest bass to the highest treble, with sharp attacks and incisive punches. That's where you find the roots of the 'Bond sound'.

What do you make of this description of the Bond sound?


Moonraker features some interesting sounds in Space Laser Battle that are reminiscent of Barry's work in The Black Hole, and more interestingly (to me, anyway), a fascinating arrangement of the Bond theme. I believe the guitar riff is played by both brass and strings.

Maybe it's just my untrained ear, but from Octopussy onwards, the Barry scores seem to sound fairly similar to each other (The Man with the Golden Gun and Moonraker are, in general, a little more distinctive), at least when his most adventurous choices for instruments, namely the electric guitar and the drum machine, are not being used. The rendition of the Bond theme in A View to a Kill is very much like the one in Octopussy, as well.

[MajorB]

As of 11:40 pm Eastern time, the top two posts on the home page are, in order:

Bond and Sex
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. . . Interesting combination.

[00Twelve]

His use of mellow flutter-tongued flute characterizes TB,

Actually flutter-tongued flutes and alto flutes characterise all of Barry's Bond scores from 64-69.

Oh, absolutely, yes. Just pointing it out in TB because of its pronounced use in that particular score.

And mattjoes, just so I don't mislead you, I was just pointing out some of the sounds that come immediately to mind that stick out about each particular score. Barry brought an amazing amount of creativity from his jazz background, as did quite a few composers in that day.

The first time I can think of Barry settling in to a largely unchanging sound is his orchestration of the Bond theme for TMWTGG, which was used again with minimal variations in MR, OP, AVTAK, and TLD; The biggest of those variations being the synth ostinato of TLD and the ascending scales that counter the theme in OP. Tempo changes here and there, more woodwinds here, less strings there, but more or less the same theme from TMWTGG on. Granted, the other motifs and melodies in the score were fantasticly varied from one film to the next (his last four each containing lovely, soft orchestrations of the title/end credit themes), but the Bond theme didn't change very much from that point forward.

Swinging the pendulum back again, though, Barry did manage to change the general beat and instrumentation of the theme and yet maintain the iconic sound. Compare the swing of, say, OHMSS with the more strightforward 4/4 beat of the late 70s/80s arrangements.

[00Twelve]

Double post, oops.

[gkgyver]

To me, the most poignant and vibrant single characteristic of a single Barry 007 score is the fantastic use of blistering percussion, glockenspiel, vibraphone, and so on, in combination with swing elements, in Diamonds Are Forever

[The Shark]

I have to say I had always believed the bold, jazzy style of Goldfinger was just Barry's approach to scoring an outlandish film after the lower-key From Russia with Love, rather than something inspired by or based on the Goldfinger character. But your explanation would certainly make thematic sense; after all, the film is titled Goldfinger, and when it was released it featured the most prominent villain in the series so far (it probably still holds up in that regard).

I have to say here, the particular sound he delivered was probably more influenced by the film's aesthetics than any traits of the main characters. That is a what tends to set off the sparks in the minds of a composer, and I can say that as one myself - even though I'm very early in my career.

A script rarely provides the bulk of the inspiration. Most of that comes from seeing the set, designs, concept art, locations, costumes etc... That's where the first real ideas of orchestration and harmony will come from.

Barry simply was aware of the lighter style that Guy Hamilton and Ken Adam brought to the film.

The differences are mostly subtle, and a lot of it in the advancement of the recording/mixing technology too. A gradual progression from 3-track (FRWL) all the way to 8 track (DAF), giving a much fuller sound.

Well, if one compares the 2003 issues of the Thunderball and Diamonds Are Forever soundtracks, the sound of the latter appears to be wider and richer. Diamonds Are Forever was the last Bond score to be recorded at Bayswater, wasn't it?

That's right. DAF and LALD (the later recorded at Abbey Road) were 8 track recordings, TMWTGG was 16 track (first to be recorded at CTS Wembley, which didn't have great acoustics, and recorders struggled to get a decent sound out of it), and TSWLM was 24 track (recorded at Air Studios, where Arnold/Dodd have done all their Bond scores).

You can see the difference between the studios here.

http://www.johnbarry...t_orchestra.php

John Barry recording YOLT at CTS Bayswater.



Unknown orchestra and conductor recording at CTS Wembley. Every Barry Bond score from 74-87 was recorded here, except MR.



MR was recorded at Studio Davout, Paris, due to higher taxation on artists and subsequent strikes in Britain at the time (which is why Barry didn't score TSWLM). In fact, the entire EON production relocated to France as an Anglo-French collaboration.

... Goldfinger, the Bond film where, in terms of style, all the codes and references found their place: the gun-sights, the opening sequence, the animated main-title, Peter Hunt's editing... It was also the first Bond where I had sole responsibility for the music; so I was able to assert a compositional style inspired by what I learned from Bill Russo, Stan Kenton's arranger: a particular way of adapting the brass right across the register from the deepest bass to the highest treble, with sharp attacks and incisive punches. That's where you find the roots of the 'Bond sound'.

What do you make of this description of the Bond sound?

I think it's pretty accurate. How can you argue with the man himself?

I thought this was an interesting quote, too.

Q: Could you describe to us how you found that sound, with the blasting trumpets?

JB: I would think that the genesis of that piece... I studied two years, a correspondence course with Bill Russo. Bill Russo was Stan Kenton's arranger, composer, and also an early trombonist. And I was a big, big fan of Stan Kenton's, and I wanted to listen to the early Kenton stuff; that brass sound was predominant, both the high brass—they said he had five trumpets, five trombones—and also the low brass sound, a rich low sound. I think the genesis of the Bond sound was most certainly that Kenton-esque sharp attack; extreme ranges, top C's and beyond, and on the low end you'd go right down to the low F's and below, so you'd have a wall of sound. The typical thing, that Bond thing, is very much this brass sound.

Listen to some of Stan Kenton's work on Youtube to see where Barry got got that sound, and developed it for a medium-sized orchestra.

Moonraker features some interesting sounds in Space Laser Battle that are reminiscent of Barry's work in The Black Hole, and more interestingly (to me, anyway), a fascinating arrangement of the Bond theme. I believe the guitar riff is played by both brass and strings.

I would say MR and to a lesser extent TMWTGG mark the period where Barry started to move away from the Kenton-derived sonorities of his earlier Bond scores. I also think the absence from two of the films, and a new Bond actor in the role helped him to look at the series from a fresh perspective. This is also the time when he produced ROBIN AND MARIAN, THE DEEP, RAISING THE TITANIC, ALICE IN WONDERLAND, HANOVER STREET, KING KONG, and THE BLACK HOLE.

You're right, it does sound a bit like Bond theme at 02:11 of Space Lazer Battle, but it's not. Since it's centred around F minor, the Bond theme should be F, Ab, E, D# - instead, it's G, Ab, Eb, D. The Eb to D (minor 7th to major 6th) if we're talking about intervals on the F minor scale) figure holds more in common to the Thunderball theme.

Also, can you hear the spacey Moog synthesiser sounds in the background? That's another similarity to The Black Hole, and in both films John Barry used 8 horns, menacing combination of piano/bassoons/contrabassoons/bass clarinets (darker orchestral textures first introduced by Bernard Herrmann), and martial snare drum rhythms. This is where Stan Kenton ceased to be the main influence, and Barry's scores more resembled Prokofiev, Stravinsky and Shostakovich.

Maybe it's just my untrained ear, but from Octopussy onwards, the Barry scores seem to sound fairly similar to each other (The Man with the Golden Gun and Moonraker are, in general, a little more distinctive), at least when his most adventurous choices for instruments, namely the electric guitar and the drum machine, are not being used. The rendition of the Bond theme in A View to a Kill is very much like the one in Octopussy, as well.

No you're right, they did become a bit more homogenised.

[mattjoes]

What instruments play the Moonraker gunbarrel? From what I can tell, there are trumpets, bass trombone, string section, tambourine, triangle, double bass, harp, and perhaps timpani (opening bar)? A woodwind is playing the vamp, as well. Is it a clarinet?

[The Shark]

What instruments play the Moonraker gunbarrel? From what I can tell, there are trumpets, bass trombone, string section, tambourine, triangle, double bass, harp, and perhaps timpani (opening bar)? A woodwind is playing the vamp, as well. Is it a clarinet?

You're correct, padawan. Check the instrumentation on this rundown of THE BLACK HOLE, to get a good idea of the size of orchestra of Barry used at this time.

[gkgyver]

Personally, not to sound offensive or anything, I find the rendition of the Bond theme in "Mayday Jumps" to be probably the worst of the series. It sounds just dull, flat, and without dynamics.

[The Shark]

Yeah, I usually skip to the next track just before the Bond theme kicks in.

[mattjoes]

What instruments play the Moonraker gunbarrel? From what I can tell, there are trumpets, bass trombone, string section, tambourine, triangle, double bass, harp, and perhaps timpani (opening bar)? A woodwind is playing the vamp, as well. Is it a clarinet?

You're correct, padawan. Check the instrumentation on this rundown of THE BLACK HOLE, to get a good idea of the size of orchestra of Barry used at this time.

That link is most instructive, thanks!

Personally, not to sound offensive or anything, I find the rendition of the Bond theme in "Mayday Jumps" to be probably the worst of the series. It sounds just dull, flat, and without dynamics.

I agree. By contrast, I find the Moonraker version of the theme just great; so energetic and distinctive.

[gkgyver]

Actually, I find that, for the Moore era, Barry wrote the most vivid renditions of the theme for The Man With The Golden Gun.
Which is, sadly, mostly overlooked.

[The Shark]

Actually, I find that, for the Moore era, Barry wrote the most vivid renditions of the theme for The Man With The Golden Gun.
Which is, sadly, mostly overlooked.

Yep. I love the tight drumkit (especially the kick) that punches you right in the chest. Also, I've also got a lot time for the quieter, menacing take on the Bond theme - heard in the scene with the gunsmith and Gibson's assassination. You know, with the low piano, and swirling string tremolo - that sounds like an exaggerated vibrato. Only hinted at in the album release at 3:00 in Let's Go Get Em.

And this has got to be the most insane rendition of it ever recorded. The sustain/reverb is bizarre, the swiped and hit tams menacing as hell, and the microtonal pitch bending in the string section borders on the atonal soundscapes of Williams's CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, when it's anything but. He also used that technique for the final scene in DAY OF THE LOCUST, round about the same time. Probably the most experiential part of Barry's career.

[mattjoes]

I was just listening to The Man with the Golden Gun. Return to Scaramanga's Fun House is truly, truly remarkable from beginning to end. I know Barry wasn't very fond of this score, but the more I listen to it, the more I like it. From the cues that didn't make it to the album, I have to say I love that little bassoon theme that plays when Bond and Nick Nack adjust their ties outside the Bottoms Up club, and the piece that plays when Bond and Chula salute each other is among Barry's most ethereally beautiful, along with the last minute of Looks Like a Suicide, from Dances with Wolves, and Mourning Worm, from The White Buffalo (what's that instrument?).