27 replies to this topic

[Neil]

Hi guys i wonder if anyone could help me? Ive recently received the long deleted CD, The Best Of Bond 30TH Anniversary Edition double disc set and on there is a previously-unreleased suite of Thunderball music. I am not too savvy with the score compared to other bond movies and hate the fact that it is one long piece so could anyone tell me the timecodes of the suite where each separate track in the movie starts? I think the start is the gun barrel opening but i dont know the rest.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Gunbarrel, then Bond Meets Domino, then 8i think) For Queen and Country. Donh't know exactly. Maybe some other CBner here may help you

[The Shark]

Tracks that are still sadly unreleased. In some cases the original masters were lost.

Here they are:

- Gassing of Derval
- Just a small fish
- Fiona's wild ride
- Paula kidnapped
- Shoot-out at Palmyra
- Trapped in the shark pool
- I think he got the point
- Brief transition shot of the Disco Volante

[alan_more]

The ultimate edition film version of Bond Meets Domino is unreleased too.

[Neil]

The original masters are lost? What? Says who??!

[The Shark]

The original masters are lost? What? Says who??!

DS: The Thunderball CD is 79 minutes long and yet there is still some music cues missing such as Bond's wild car ride with Fiona. Were these not available?

LK: Thunderball is a very long score and EMI did not have the budget to release a 2CD set. With 40 minutes on the original LP (43 if you count the fact that the mono LP had an alternate version of "Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang") plus 20 minutes in the 30th Anniversary suite -- and an obligation to include everything that had been released before, save the vocals of "Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" for artist clearance reasons -- there was not much room for previously unreleased music. I picked what I thought were the most important cues -- like the "Street Chase" -- but sadly some other things had to be left off including the music cue of Bond's wild car ride with Fiona.

http://www.shatterha...om/Kendall.html

[scaramunga]

Interesting if the tracks are indeed lost or just didn't make the album due to limitation of 1 cd?

Sounds like Lukas had to choose as there was only so much room on a 1 cd release?

[Neil]

yes that sounds like it might be right. WHy are companies so tight? They should have done a 2-CD release

[Dan Gale]

I feel for the compiler, budget vs time vs expectations. Ideally, I'd have happily lived without Tom Jones' dreary theme song, easily available elsewhere anyway, and had a few more minutes of something rare.

[The Shark]

I feel for the compiler, budget vs time vs expectations. Ideally, I'd have happily lived without Tom Jones' dreary theme song, easily available elsewhere anyway, and had a few more minutes of something rare.

Dreary? It's full testosterone, energy, menace and power. Compared to the likes of Bassey's drab MOONRAKER or Easton's nauseatingly saccharin FOR YOUR EYES ONLY it's positively herculean.

There are many, many dull Bond theme songs, but THUNDERBALL is not one of them.

[Marcato]

that does not says music is lost - only that LK had to make a decision what was going to be on the cd and not - with a 2 hour score you have to leave something out when it comes to an 80 minute cd - and the music from BEST OF BOND TB suite had to be there or else people would have complained

[The Cat]

Sorry to be harsh, but aren't people able to comprehend simple English?

The tapes are not lost, in fact everything available from the vaults have been digitalized and prepared for release. Only budget constraints of doing a single CD resulted in this program. The program was also dictated by contractual obligations - such as retaining the original album program at the beginning of the CD, including such "gems" as the completely unnecessary "made-only-for-the-album" 007 recording or the four minute lounge Thunderball instrumental that was edited into the picture in the last minute.

[Guy Haines]

I feel for the compiler, budget vs time vs expectations. Ideally, I'd have happily lived without Tom Jones' dreary theme song, easily available elsewhere anyway, and had a few more minutes of something rare.

Dreary? It's full testosterone, energy, menace and power. Compared to the likes of Bassey's drab MOONRAKER or Easton's nauseatingly saccharin FOR YOUR EYES ONLY it's positively herculean.

There are many, many dull Bond theme songs, but THUNDERBALL is not one of them.

Agreed. One of my favourite Bond themes. It's a pity they couldn't have found room somewhere in the film - over the end titles, perhaps, - for Dionne Warwick's vocal of Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. I'd like to see it included in any future re-release of the TB soundtrack.

As for the other two themes The Shark mentioned, Moonraker wasn't really written for Shirley Bassey. I understand the producers were trying to get Kate Bush or even Frank Sinatra to perform it. It never really sounded like a "Bassey" theme to me. The FYEO theme - as with some of the themes of the Moore era, it lacked the mix of major and minor key, light and dark, that made the 1960s themes so notable. Nice tune, but not high up on my favourite themes list.

I think that, after the success of "Nobody Does It Better", the next two or three themes were attempts to recapture that song's style. They shouldn't have bothered, because on reflection NDIB was something of an exception to the Bond theme rule.

[Neil]

The tapes are not lost, in fact everything available from the vaults have been digitalized and prepared for release.

Ah right. how do u know this?

[scaramunga]

I feel for the compiler, budget vs time vs expectations. Ideally, I'd have happily lived without Tom Jones' dreary theme song, easily available elsewhere anyway, and had a few more minutes of something rare.

Dreary? It's full testosterone, energy, menace and power. Compared to the likes of Bassey's drab MOONRAKER or Easton's nauseatingly saccharin FOR YOUR EYES ONLY it's positively herculean.

There are many, many dull Bond theme songs, but THUNDERBALL is not one of them.

As for the other two themes The Shark mentioned, Moonraker wasn't really written for Shirley Bassey. I understand the producers were trying to get Kate Bush or even Frank Sinatra to perform it. It never really sounded like a "Bassey" theme to me.

Or Johnny Mathis maybe??

Edited by scaramunga, 12 July 2010 - 03:41 AM.

[Guy Haines]

I feel for the compiler, budget vs time vs expectations. Ideally, I'd have happily lived without Tom Jones' dreary theme song, easily available elsewhere anyway, and had a few more minutes of something rare.

Dreary? It's full testosterone, energy, menace and power. Compared to the likes of Bassey's drab MOONRAKER or Easton's nauseatingly saccharin FOR YOUR EYES ONLY it's positively herculean.

There are many, many dull Bond theme songs, but THUNDERBALL is not one of them.

As for the other two themes The Shark mentioned, Moonraker wasn't really written for Shirley Bassey. I understand the producers were trying to get Kate Bush or even Frank Sinatra to perform it. It never really sounded like a "Bassey" theme to me.

Or Johnny Mathis maybe??

Funny you should mention him. I was on another film site earlier today and came across a reference to the Moonraker theme. It stated that Johnny Mathis had actually started working on it with John Barry and Hal David, but had to drop out, and that Shirley Bassey was brought in to replace him only a few weeks before the film's premiere.

Whether it was intended for Kate Bush, Frank Sinatra or Johnny Mathis, what seems clear to me was that Barry and David probably didn't have Dame Shirley in mind when they wrote the song.

[Ernst Stavro Blofeld Jr.]

The tapes are not lost, in fact everything available from the vaults have been digitalized and prepared for release.

Ah right. how do u know this?

Don't open that can of worms.

Apparently he's done a lot of research and has written a book (which has never seen release) so he comes on here and always says how everyone is wrong yet has no real proof to back up his statements. Everyone pretty much takes his words as truth and while I think that's unfortunate,that's the way it is.

[scaramunga]

I feel for the compiler, budget vs time vs expectations. Ideally, I'd have happily lived without Tom Jones' dreary theme song, easily available elsewhere anyway, and had a few more minutes of something rare.

Dreary? It's full testosterone, energy, menace and power. Compared to the likes of Bassey's drab MOONRAKER or Easton's nauseatingly saccharin FOR YOUR EYES ONLY it's positively herculean.

There are many, many dull Bond theme songs, but THUNDERBALL is not one of them.

As for the other two themes The Shark mentioned, Moonraker wasn't really written for Shirley Bassey. I understand the producers were trying to get Kate Bush or even Frank Sinatra to perform it. It never really sounded like a "Bassey" theme to me.

Or Johnny Mathis maybe??

Funny you should mention him. I was on another film site earlier today and came across a reference to the Moonraker theme. It stated that Johnny Mathis had actually started working on it with John Barry and Hal David, but had to drop out, and that Shirley Bassey was brought in to replace him only a few weeks before the film's premiere.

Whether it was intended for Kate Bush, Frank Sinatra or Johnny Mathis, what seems clear to me was that Barry and David probably didn't have Dame Shirley in mind when they wrote the song.

: )

That is also what I have read in the past about Mathis.

[The Cat]

Apparently he's done a lot of research and has written a book (which has never seen release) so he comes on here and always says how everyone is wrong yet has no real proof to back up his statements. Everyone pretty much takes his words as truth and while I think that's unfortunate,that's the way it is.

People who contacted me privately in the past were given their proof. I invite you to do the same.

[The Cat]

Ah, stupid me. I should answer the ORIGINAL question as well. The cues that make up the suite are:

‘Gunbarrel’, ‘Bond Meets Domino’, ‘Lights Out for Paula’, ‘For King and Country’, ‘Bond With SPECTRE Frogmen’, ‘Leiter to the Rescue’, ‘Bond Joins Underwater Battle’, ‘Death of Largo’ and ‘End Titles’.

Contrary to popular belief, there's no music that's in the suite and not on the new CD (I know this was pointed out earlier, but it worths stressing).

[The Shark]

Sorry to be harsh, but aren't people able to comprehend simple English?

¿Qué dices, El Gato? I no speak your ingles.

In all seriousness, I'm sure I heard about some masters being damaged beyond repair. It might not have been Thunderball, but I remember Kendall saying it in some interview or another.

Either way, I know LTK is Capitol, so another can of worms and labyrinth of bureaucracy; TMWTGG and Spy were 16 tracks, so would be a much more difficult task to remaster, and they also realised they had run out of money half way through, so they cancelled this for another day; MR and AVTAK are lost somewhere in France; any news on OP?

[Neil]

Thank you Cat. I have a lotta questions about bond music i would love answered. U seem to be the person to ask. May I PM u for more???

[Leo R.]

Just to get the record straight...

In all seriousness, I'm sure I heard about some masters being damaged beyond repair. It might not have been Thunderball, but I remember Kendall saying it in some interview or another.

One OHMSS reel suffered water damage, but this did not lead to any deterioration of the recording.

MR and AVTAK are lost somewhere in France;

MR was recorded at Studios Davout in Paris. TMTGG, OP, and AVTAK were all recorded at CTS in London, while TSWLM was recorded at AIR Studios, London.

I don't know if "lost" is the right way of putting it, when it comes to MR; maybe no-one hasn't bothered yet to phone Paris? Studios Davout is still a major French recording studio. (www.davout.com)

As far as I would know, the only real "lost" scores are DN, FRWL and GF. If they are unavailable in London, they probably won't resurface elsewhere either.

...Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Cat.... :-)

[The Cat]

...Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Cat.... :-)

You're quite right Leo, but I've given up on explaining this issue over and over and over again. We should just take your answer and copy+paste it everytime it comes up.

Also, the term lost REALLY means that nobody bothers with said score. Remember that everytime you come across the term.

For Neil - feel free to ask any question in PM.

Edited by The Cat, 13 July 2010 - 05:00 PM.

[scaramunga]

...Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Cat.... :-)

You're quite right Leo, but I've given up on explaining this issue over and over and over again. We should just take your answer and copy+paste it everytime it comes up.

Also, the term lost REALLY means that nobody bothers with said score. Remember that everytime you come across the term.

For Neil - feel free to ask any question in PM.

When "lost" also apply to the Roger Moore Bond scores as well?

How much missing music is missing on The Man With The Golden Gun, Moonraker, Octopussy and A View To A Kill?

I believe Spy doesn't have any of the film score rather it was recorded specifically for the album. Is this correct?

[The Cat]

With no intention of repeating myself, please read the series first, ask questions afterwards:

http://blofeldscat.l...com/148504.html

Links to parts 2, 3 and 4 can be found at the bottom.

[scaramunga]

With no intention of repeating myself, please read the series first, ask questions afterwards:

http://blofeldscat.l...com/148504.html

Links to parts 2, 3 and 4 can be found at the bottom.

Great article! Thanks for the overview and your insight. I enjoyed the music at the end of the article too.

There is no question that I was very thrilled in 2003 to pick up the remastered scores on cd. I still listen and enjoy them a ton. Very appreciative of what was able to be done. I was just listening to Diamonds Are Forever and On Her Majesty's Secret Service soundtracks today.

I also enjoyed your restoration article about On Her Majesty's Secret Service:
http://blofeldscat.l...com/147285.html

Edited by scaramunga, 19 July 2010 - 01:01 AM.

[Leo R.]

With no intention of repeating myself, please read the series first, ask questions afterwards:

http://blofeldscat.l...com/148504.html

Nice site, Mr. Cat. Very much appreciated.

I see we came to similar conclusions regarding the amount of missing music, but I also learned some things that I didn't know.

Well done!