25 replies to this topic

[JimmyBond]

While I was posting in the TND hype thread, I thought back to my feelings on the film when I first saw it, and am finding it curious to see what other's thought when they first saw the film. Since feeling's change it should be interesting.

During the time TND was about to come out I had an uneasy feeling about the future of the series. I liked Goldeneye well enough, but felt that it's focus on action over story was moving away from what got me into the series in the first place. Sure the older films are action packed, but at the same time they tried to be a bit innovative with the action. Goldeneye played it safe by showing us scenes of Bond gunning people down, and while that I lap that kind of stuff up in movie's like Lethal Weapon or Die Hard, I never felt it worked that well in a Bond film.

So upon exiting TND for the first time, I was a bit underwhelmed, I thought the film was perhaps a bit too fast paced, a bit too loud, and I (originally) really didnt care for the finale on the stealth ship. I also felt Brosnan's portrayal of Bond was wildly different from his take on the character in the previous film, though that might have just been the effect's of him not really deciding on how to play the character.

[jamie00007]

I felt pretty disappointed really. I had been expecting something a little more like GoldenEye, which I loved. But came out of TND feeling Id just seen a generic John Woo type action movie.

[Cruiserweight]

I was a fanboy & it was my first Bond i ever saw at the movies. What else is there for me to say besides that i loved it & i still do.

[00Twelve]

I remember that I'd loved GOLDENEYE and that the buzz for the new Bond gave birth to (in hindsight) a naive need for the new Bond movie to be better than the last. As I entered the theater, passing 3,852 people waiting in line for TITANIC, I was primed with my rose-tinted glasses.

Upon leaving, I constantly convinced myself that it was better than GE and defended it as such. I even defiantly saw it again in the face of the small nation that was constantly in line to rewatch TITANIC for the second or seventh time.

This foolishly optimistic trend continued until after DAD, I'm afraid, and then Broz was let go and it sunk in that none of my viewing experiences with him ever matched seeing GE. And they pretty much still don't.

It hit me on a viewing of TND a couple years ago how flimsy the script was and how much the purposeful attempts to emulate the movies of old paled in comparison with the actual movies of old. It's marginally more viewable than TWINE and the latter half of DAD these days in the Twelve household, but that's about it. Heck of a PTS, though.

[bond 16.05.72]

I thought it was poor and my thoughts on it now are probably worse after DAD the worse film of the entire series, although I don't really rate TWINE it just has that Swiss Banker opening which is about it's only redeeming feature.

After TND I realised I didn't really care much for the direction Bond was moving in and although I'm not as venomous originally as I was with GE despite being Pierce's best entry, it isn't something I will return to with relish.

The whole Brosnan era is one I'm glad is well behind us now, whether it was his fault (I never liked any of his portrayals) or EON is up for debate.

[Judo chop]

I liked it. I thought it was action-packed fun and it ticked all the right boxes for me as a Bond fan. I thought Brosnan was the best Bond because he looked the best.

However, despite my obvious delusions, I always struggled with the fact that I could never keep its scenes straight with those of GOLDENEYE. The two felt like the same movie to me.

Which is the one with Bond running around with some girl almost as pretty as he, destroying things in a variety of moving vehicles?

[plankattack]

Which is the one with Bond running around with some girl almost as pretty as he, destroying things in a variety of moving vehicles?

Judo my friend, you're thinking of LALD. No, hang on, TSWLM. Wait a minute, I'm confused - it was FYEO I was remembering. No, no, AVTAK. TLD? Gosh my memory is going. They've all become one......

In all seriousness, I loved GE when it came out. The gap, the nostalgia, Brozza winning me over, whatever the reason. And so I've got to be honest, I don't think I've ever anticipated a film like I did TND. I mean completely without reservation. I was so into it I just couldn't imagine anything other than a fantastic two hours of Bond. Like Twelve before me, Titanic was a total afterthought for me.

So it's inevitable that I felt really let down by TND. The film's strengths - it's pace, it's straightforwardness, are for me it's weaknesses. I wanted another GE, another Bond film that didn't mind taking it's time and meandering around and reminding me of all the parts of the series that I've loved. Instead TND seemed like it was from another, more generic franchise.

I've read how many CBn'ers who don't like QoS make the point that after CR they expected "more" from the next film. I don't feel that way about QoS but I do understand where they're coming from because that's how I feel about TND. Like Jimmy Bond feeling underwhelmed in his post above, I felt the same. "Is that all they've got?" pretty much sums it up. I'm not saying GE is a masterpiece - how I feel about it is helped by its time and place in the series. TND didn't have that going for it which is why I've never enjoyed it. Whereas GE wants unabashedly to be a Bond film, TND is a film that just happens to have Bond in it.

Edited by plankattack, 05 January 2010 - 07:16 PM.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Which is the one with Bond running around with some girl almost as pretty as he, destroying things in a variety of moving vehicles?

Judo my friend, you're thinking of LALD. No, hang on, TSWLM. Wait a minute, I'm confused - it was FYEO I was remembering. No, no, AVTAK. TLD? Gosh my memory is going. They've all become one......

In all seriousness, I loved GE when it came out. The gap, the nostalgia, Brozza winning me over, whatever the reason. And so I've got to be honest, I don't think I've ever anticipated a film like I did TND. I mean completely without reservation. I was so into it I just couldn't imagine anything other than a fantastic two hours of Bond. Like Twelve before me, Titanic was a total afterthought for me.

So it's inevitable that I felt really let down by TND. The film's strengths - it's pace, it's straightforwardness, are for me it's weaknesses. I wanted another GE, another Bond film that didn't mind taking it's time and meandering around and reminding me of all the parts of the series that I've loved. Instead TND seemed like it was from another, more generic franchise.

I've read how many CBn'ers who don't like QoS make the point that after CR they expected "more" from the next film. I don't feel that way about QoS but I do understand where they're coming from because that's how I feel about TND. Like Jimmy Bond feeling underwhelmed in his post above, I felt the same. "Is that all they've got?" pretty much sums it up. I'm not saying GE is a masterpiece - how I feel about it is helped by its time and place in the series. TND didn't have that going for it which is why I've never enjoyed it. Whereas GE wants unabashedly to be a Bond film, TND is a film that just happens to have Bond in it.

My feelings exactly.

[Turn]

Seeing TND was my favorite opening of Brosnan era. It was Christmas time, I was with friends and it all came together.

I wasn't overwhelmed by GE as many were. It seemed to try to hard to do too much -drag Bond into the '90s while trying to tick all the Bond formula boxes, try to work in that Trevelyan rivalry, an experimental music score and introduce a new Bond, who is obviously finding his way.

TND has more reassurance about it. Brosnan seems quite comfortable in the role and they don't go about slamming you over the head with the personal stuff. The Paris scenes aren't very good, but not overwhelming, either. Bond finds her dead, mourns a minimum amount of time then moves on and takes care of business. That was how Connery and Moore did it in their tenures.

As I said in another thread, TND aspires to be a fast-paced Bond averts WWIII film and hits its marks. I loved the film when it came out and it remains my favorite of the Brosnan films as it is the only one to truly accomplish what it sets out to do.

[Jim]

While I was posting in the TND hype thread, I thought back to my feelings on the film when I first saw it, and am finding it curious to see what other's thought when they first saw the film. Since feeling's change it should be interesting.

Whelmed.

Neither under- nor over-. Just whelmed.

[JimmyBond]

I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said about a Brosnan Bond film Jim. Are you losing your touch!?

[Safari Suit]

Wasn't the PTS originally going to feature Bond climbing a frozen waterfall, or is that just some nonsense I picked up from somehwere? Would have been quite something to see anyway, and added a little much-needed dynamicism

[00Twelve]

Wasn't the PTS originally going to feature Bond climbing a frozen waterfall, or is that just some nonsense I picked up from somehwere? Would have been quite something to see anyway, and added a little much-needed dynamicism

From what I remember, he was going to be climbing the waterfall TO the arms bazaar. The PTS would have remained largely the same, but with an extended beginning.

They made the right choice.

[Dr.Fell]

Wasn't the PTS originally going to feature Bond climbing a frozen waterfall, or is that just some nonsense I picked up from somehwere? Would have been quite something to see anyway, and added a little much-needed dynamicism

I agree that would have been more interesting. The PTS felt like Tom Clancy imitates Bond.

[Safari Suit]

They made the right choice.

Why?

[plankattack]

Wasn't the PTS originally going to feature Bond climbing a frozen waterfall, or is that just some nonsense I picked up from somehwere? Would have been quite something to see anyway, and added a little much-needed dynamicism

I agree that would have been more interesting. The PTS felt like Tom Clancy imitates Bond.

Agreed. One my issues with TND is that just seems to be blur of action moments, accompanied by a barrage of machine gun fire. Anything that dilutes that would be a good thing. Bond is definitely an action hero rather than a secret agent in TND.

[Dr.Fell]

Wasn't the PTS originally going to feature Bond climbing a frozen waterfall, or is that just some nonsense I picked up from somehwere? Would have been quite something to see anyway, and added a little much-needed dynamicism

I agree that would have been more interesting. The PTS felt like Tom Clancy imitates Bond.

Agreed. One my issues with TND is that just seems to be blur of action moments, accompanied by a barrage of machine gun fire. Anything that dilutes that would be a good thing. Bond is definitely an action hero rather than a secret agent in TND.

Rewatching the film again recently I think the only brilliant part of the film is the sinking of the HMS Devonshire; It's surprisingly grim and well thought out though I could have done without the idiotic "sea-drill". The shining moment was when Carver subsituted "murdered" for "killed" emphasizing how powerful words can be. Unfortunately it all goes down hill from there with the exception of Bond humlimating Carver in front of the world press. In general Tomorrow Never Dies has a great story that chokes on it's excess of gunplay and explosions.

Edited by Dr.Fell, 07 January 2010 - 07:19 PM.

[00Twelve]

They made the right choice.

Why?

IMO, it was a better choice for Bond to not be the first thing seen. Not that the "filthy habit" joke was a good one, far from it, but in general it was more of an applause-worthy entrance.

[JimmyBond]

They made the right choice.

Why?

IMO, it was a better choice for Bond to not be the first thing seen. Not that the "filthy habit" joke was a good one, far from it, but in general it was more of an applause-worthy entrance.

I distinctly remember feeling it was a bit redundtant to give Bond another "surprise" entrance, especially since this was Brosnan's second film, he already had one of those in GE.

[DaveBond21]

The note in my diary from the day I saw it says this:-


"Good. Typical Bond movie!"


I must say that my diary entries for TWINE, DAD, CR and QOS are a lot more detailed!

I really enjoyed it at the time. I think it was just the right kind of mix between action and fun and Brosnan was really growing into the role by now. David Arnold's score is very welcome after Eric Serra and the PTS is just what you need to start a 007 flick. I also loved Carver - I have a thing about eccentric, over-the-top Bond villains!

[bondrules]

delete.

[Monkeyfoahead]

I almost completely forgot about it. I even watched in the theatre. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed.

[00Twelve]

They made the right choice.

Why?

IMO, it was a better choice for Bond to not be the first thing seen. Not that the "filthy habit" joke was a good one, far from it, but in general it was more of an applause-worthy entrance.

I distinctly remember feeling it was a bit redundtant to give Bond another "surprise" entrance, especially since this was Brosnan's second film, he already had one of those in GE.

Yeah, there's that, too.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I really enjoyed it at the time. I think it was just the right kind of mix between action and fun and Brosnan was really growing into the role by now. David Arnold's score is very welcome after Eric Serra and the PTS is just what you need to start a 007 flick. I also loved Carver - I have a thing about eccentric, over-the-top Bond villains!

I completely agree. Tomorrow Never Dies is a great Bond film and Pierce Brosnan is great in it. I found it to be just a tad below GoldenEye and my sixth favorite film of the series.

[blueman]

Was very pleased with it, surprising to me after the rather dull (sorry, just too much meandering) GE. Agree with others who call it Brosnan's best performance as Bond and the best Bond film made with him in it, it's a very straight-forward and pulpy story that hits what it aims for, unlike the other 3 with Brosnan. Made me expect even better things from TWINE - what a let down.

[Zorin Industries]

Easily Brosnan's best Bond film.