25 replies to this topic

[DaveBond21]

I know that SPECTRE does not tolerate failure (in a similar way that Quantum needs people it can trust otherwise they die), but does anyone else think that Kronsteen in FRWL was a little unlucky to die?

His plan almost worked. In fact, if Grant hadn't been so greedy and full of himself, it would have worked. Yet, he pays the ultimate price. Surely Blofeld should have given him a second chance?

It's not often you get a great chess master to work for you, and I always assume he had enough plusses against his name than minuses.

Thoughts?

[Turn]

Yeah, I agree. The whole point of his death is kind of the shock of Klebb getting the second chance and not Kronsteen.

Some of the SPECTRE operatives who died as a result of failures were more deserving - I think of Count Lippe in particular. Sadly, we didn't get one of these in OHMSS, although they were played out by then. There was a great one in the book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the alergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

But Krosteen seems like he would have been a valuable ally with his cunning as opposed to a Lippe or a Quist or Ms. Brandt.

And it also makes you think, Blofeld was the one who put all this together to begin with, shouldn't he off himself at some point?

[jrcjohnny99]

lol
I agree completely;
gotta admit that was a damn fine plan he came up with..
unlucky bastard.

[Mr. Blofeld]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

[Turn]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

[Mr. Blofeld]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

Erm... now it's a bit of a run-on sentence, but who am I to judge?

Anywho, at least in the film it gave more than one member of the conspiracy behind Bond's death their just desserts; in the book, Kronsteen gets off scot-clean.

[Tybre]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

Erm... now it's a bit of a run-on sentence, but who am I to judge?

Anywho, at least in the film it gave more than one member of the conspiracy behind Bond's death their just desserts; in the book, Kronsteen gets off scot-clean.

Well in the book it was SMERSH not SPECTRE.

[Mr. Blofeld]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

Erm... now it's a bit of a run-on sentence, but who am I to judge?

Anywho, at least in the film it gave more than one member of the conspiracy behind Bond's death their just desserts; in the book, Kronsteen gets off scot-clean.

Well in the book it was SMERSH not SPECTRE.

I know, but even then, it was only Grant and Klebb who got the boot.

[Tybre]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

Erm... now it's a bit of a run-on sentence, but who am I to judge?

Anywho, at least in the film it gave more than one member of the conspiracy behind Bond's death their just desserts; in the book, Kronsteen gets off scot-clean.

Well in the book it was SMERSH not SPECTRE.

I know, but even then, it was only Grant and Klebb who got the boot.

Aren't we forgetting someone else?

[Mr. Blofeld]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

Erm... now it's a bit of a run-on sentence, but who am I to judge?

Anywho, at least in the film it gave more than one member of the conspiracy behind Bond's death their just desserts; in the book, Kronsteen gets off scot-clean.

Well in the book it was SMERSH not SPECTRE.

I know, but even then, it was only Grant and Klebb who got the boot.

Aren't we forgetting someone else?

Oh... you mean Benz, right? In the book, I was confused as to whether or not Benz and Kerim had actually murdered each other, or whether Grant (or someone else) had killed them both, like in the movie.

[Tybre]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

Erm... now it's a bit of a run-on sentence, but who am I to judge?

Anywho, at least in the film it gave more than one member of the conspiracy behind Bond's death their just desserts; in the book, Kronsteen gets off scot-clean.

Well in the book it was SMERSH not SPECTRE.

I know, but even then, it was only Grant and Klebb who got the boot.

Aren't we forgetting someone else?

Oh... you mean Benz, right? In the book, I was confused as to whether or not Benz and Kerim had actually murdered each other, or whether Grant (or someone else) had killed them both, like in the movie.

Spoiler

Actually I meant Bond got the boot as well, only he came out of it poisoned instead of dead.

[DaveBond21]

Yeah, I agree. The whole point of his death is kind of the shock of Klebb getting the second chance and not Kronsteen.

Some of the SPECTRE operatives who died as a result of failures were more deserving - I think of Count Lippe in particular.

Exactly right.

Also the SPECTRE agent at the start of Thunderball deserved it too, but surely by then Blofeld was wishing he had spared Kronsteen?

[Colossus]

I agree Kronsteen died unfairly since the error was Red Grant which was Klebb's choice and responsibility, Kronsteen was not the one who picked him and technically it's really the overall training program of SPECTRE that needed an overhaul to look at the whole paranoiac psychotic downside to it. One wack at the stomach and he's good to go?! Although since Grant was such a big part of the mission i think Kronsteen should've picked him or walked over there with Klebb.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Tactically, Kronsteen's death was a bad move by Blofeld. But story-wise, it foreshadows the threat of Klebb's poisoned shoe as she attempts to kick the life out of Bond.

[DaveBond21]

Tactically, Kronsteen's death was a bad move by Blofeld. But story-wise, it foreshadows the threat of Klebb's poisoned shoe as she attempts to kick the life out of Bond.

Yes, sums it up nicely.

[Mr. Blofeld]

The book where the traitorous guard who bothers one of the allergy patients going down the bobsled run would have been interesting.

Erm... that was OHMSS.

Either way, I think YOLT took what was a pretty defining nasty streak in SPECTRE and turned it into self-parody. "KEEEL BOND! NAAHHH!" put it pretty far over the top...

Didn't come out the way I'd hoped, but it's fixed now.

Erm... now it's a bit of a run-on sentence, but who am I to judge?

Anywho, at least in the film it gave more than one member of the conspiracy behind Bond's death their just desserts; in the book, Kronsteen gets off scot-clean.

Well in the book it was SMERSH not SPECTRE.

I know, but even then, it was only Grant and Klebb who got the boot.

Aren't we forgetting someone else?

Oh... you mean Benz, right? In the book, I was confused as to whether or not Benz and Kerim had actually murdered each other, or whether Grant (or someone else) had killed them both, like in the movie.

Spoiler

Actually I meant Bond got the boot as well, only he came out of it poisoned instead of dead.

Spoiler

Well, that depends as to whether or not you count the next nine books as the fevered hallucinations of a dying man (Bond).

[Turn]

Tactically, Kronsteen's death was a bad move by Blofeld. But story-wise, it foreshadows the threat of Klebb's poisoned shoe as she attempts to kick the life out of Bond.

Bad move, but it leads to one of the better lines that doesn't get much love from fans:

Blofeld: "One day we must invent a faster working venom."

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Tactically, Kronsteen's death was a bad move by Blofeld. But story-wise, it foreshadows the threat of Klebb's poisoned shoe as she attempts to kick the life out of Bond.

Bad move, but it leads to one of the better lines that doesn't get much love from fans:

Blofeld: "One day we must invent a faster working venom."

Sure, but he could have used the same sentence if Klebb got killed.

Anyway, I agree Kronsteen's killing was a bad move, we saw too little of Vladek Sheybal's Kronsteen in the movie, I thought it was an interesting character that deserved more screentime.

[007Bond007]

i dont think so because spectre is an organization tha cant tolerate mistake.

Edited by 007Bond007, 26 July 2009 - 11:51 PM.

[double o ego]

I personally feel that Kronsteen was killed at the last minute due to his innapropriate smug arrogance. When he asked who is Bond compared to Kronsteen, I think it's possible to assume that Blofeld may have signalled off screen for Morenzy to kill off Kronsteen for such a badly timed comment.
Blofeld is an intelligent man although crazy and with all intents and purposes, Kronsteen's plan was pretty damn good. The plan failing was a factor he couldn't control; surely Blofeld was sane enough to understand this? Anyway, with Bond foiling SPECTRE's plans yet again and with SPECTRE now losing credibility with its clients, the last thing Blofeld probably needed to hear was some smug, super know it all, getting all pompous in the midst of their failure.
Kronsteen should have kept his mouth shut.

[DaveBond21]

I personally feel that Kronsteen was killed at the last minute due to his innapropriate smug arrogance. When he asked who is Bond compared to Kronsteen, I think it's possible to assume that Blofeld may have signalled off screen for Morenzy to kill off Kronsteen for such a badly timed comment.
Blofeld is an intelligent man although crazy and with all intents and purposes, Kronsteen's plan was pretty damn good. The plan failing was a factor he couldn't control; surely Blofeld was sane enough to understand this? Anyway, with Bond foiling SPECTRE's plans yet again and with SPECTRE now losing credibility with its clients, the last thing Blofeld probably needed to hear was some smug, super know it all, getting all pompous in the midst of their failure.
Kronsteen should have kept his mouth shut.

Yes, that could have been the reason. I still think he deserved another go.

[the villain's architect]

Kronsteen was expendable because he had been "just" a planner and had done his work for Spectre. Spectre probably owed him his reward. Like Stromberg in TSWLM, the main villain took a chance to save money and to get rid of a witness.
The second reason why he was killed was to give the operative Klebb an extra incentive not to fail this time.

Granted, all this only makes sense if Kronsteen was more like a hired planner than a key member of Spectre (after all, he's "number 5" in the Spectre hierarchy).

Edited by the villain's architect, 28 July 2009 - 09:54 AM.

[David_M]

I think it's a political move.

Kronsteen is highly visible within SPECTRE as the architect of the Lektor scheme and it is well known he has the full support of Blofeld. When his plan fails -- regardless of the reasons -- it reflects on Blofeld as much as himself. If Blofeld is to maintain his iron grip on the organization, he can't afford to have the stink of failure on him. And so, by killing Kronsteen, he washes his hands of the whole affair and silences anyone who might have dared whispered, "Well you know, Blofeld picked that guy in the first place..."

Politicians throw their best underlings under the bus all the time to save their own skins, and the higher up the sacrificial lamb, the more "cleansing" an act it is for the top guy. This is true not only for banana republics and Arab strongmen, but also for residents of the Oval Office and I suspect other leading nations of the free world. It may not make sense from a business or military point of view, but politically it's straight out of the standard play book.

[HildebrandRarity]

Kronsteen got the boot because he failed to take Q Branch's goodie bags into account.

Failing to take the enemy's capabilities into account is a pretty big failure, don't you think?

[Mr. Blofeld]

Tactically, Kronsteen's death was a bad move by Blofeld. But story-wise, it foreshadows the threat of Klebb's poisoned shoe as she attempts to kick the life out of Bond.

Bad move, but it leads to one of the better lines that doesn't get much love from fans:

Blofeld: "One day we must invent a faster working venom."

Sure, but he could have used the same sentence if Klebb got killed.

You know, that just put an image in my head: Kronsteen sweatily trying to jab Bond with the poisoned shoe in the hotel room while disguised as a porter. Can you imagine what that would've been like?

[DAN LIGHTER]

I think it's a political move.

Kronsteen is highly visible within SPECTRE as the architect of the Lektor scheme and it is well known he has the full support of Blofeld. When his plan fails -- regardless of the reasons -- it reflects on Blofeld as much as himself. If Blofeld is to maintain his iron grip on the organization, he can't afford to have the stink of failure on him. And so, by killing Kronsteen, he washes his hands of the whole affair and silences anyone who might have dared whispered, "Well you know, Blofeld picked that guy in the first place..."

Politicians throw their best underlings under the bus all the time to save their own skins, and the higher up the sacrificial lamb, the more "cleansing" an act it is for the top guy. This is true not only for banana republics and Arab strongmen, but also for residents of the Oval Office and I suspect other leading nations of the free world. It may not make sense from a business or military point of view, but politically it's straight out of the standard play book.

As always, well said David_M