625 replies to this topic

[blueman]

Personally, I would like to see if they could make a 'Bond film' without a Bond girl and / or M.

The risks they took with LTK all those years ago seem mild by todays' successful standards. So, see what else can be thrown out.

I am not saying it could work, as all the Bondian supports or crutches were believed to have 'made' the film (series), but there are still Bond film elements that could be risked and turned upside down still further.

Very interesting comments. QOS is about as close to a no-Bond-girl Bond film as we're likely to see IMO, but going even further could bring out some interesting stuff, sure - Fleming spent great heaps of pages (even a short story or three) with no love (or even sex) interest for Bond. And if Dench ever wanted to bow out, going M-less for one film after that before the inevitable recast would also be cool. (and, I don't remember sitting watching LTK in the theatre thinking, oooh how risky... more like, eh how idiotic, but whatevs ).

[Santa]

But the guys wrote and rewrote, and they've come up with one of the most inspired codas to a Bond movie ever."

I think...
No, actually, I don't. I can't think or speak anything about this that would be acceptable on a site visited by children.
.

[DamnCoffee]

Personally, I would like to see if they could make a 'Bond film' without a Bond girl and / or M.

The risks they took with LTK all those years ago seem mild by todays' successful standards. So, see what else can be thrown out.

I am not saying it could work, as all the Bondian supports or crutches were believed to have 'made' the film (series), but there are still Bond film elements that could be risked and turned upside down still further.

Very interesting comments. QOS is about as close to a no-Bond-girl Bond film as we're likely to see IMO, but going even further could bring out some interesting stuff, sure - Fleming spent great heaps of pages (even a short story or three) with no love (or even sex) interest for Bond. And if Dench ever wanted to bow out, going M-less for one film after that before the inevitable recast would also be cool. (and, I don't remember sitting watching LTK in the theatre thinking, oooh how risky... more like, eh how idiotic, but whatevs ).

For Your Eyes Only was M-Less.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

But the guys wrote and rewrote, and they've come up with one of the most inspired codas to a Bond movie ever."

I think...
No, actually, I don't. I can't think or speak anything about this that would be acceptable on a site visited by children.
.

Personally, I saw nothing inspirational about DAD's ending. All I saw was a similarity to TLD - a vehicle within a vehicle to aid an escape, but thats my opinion.

[Quantumofsolace007]

itnerestimng over at mi6 they argue Morgan usually gives us Older versus younger type stuff is it possible bond 23 will have an older villian? Perhaps the bond girl will be his daughter Played by an actress who capable of naaive innocence and unbridal sexyness....





Hi I'm dan I'm a bondaholic and i speculate (this is People who constantly speculate about the next bond movie anonmous right )

[DaveBond21]

...but Haggis worked till October! The cameras rolled in Feb.

We have LOTS of time!

BOND 23 NEXT NOVEMBER!!!

That was only because of the writers strike. You know, if he missed the deadline OR the writers strike didn't happen, we probably would've had Quantum of Solace in May 2009.

The writers strike ed up the quality of Quantum of Solace big time, imo. I think they'd want a fully developed script before they start even considering rolling the cameras.

It's possible. I certainly think it was affected by Marc Forster admitting he only had 4 weeks to edit QOS and hinted he didn't think it was enough time.

[danslittlefinger]

...but Haggis worked till October! The cameras rolled in Feb.

We have LOTS of time!

BOND 23 NEXT NOVEMBER!!!

That was only because of the writers strike. You know, if he missed the deadline OR the writers strike didn't happen, we probably would've had Quantum of Solace in May 2009.

The writers strike ed up the quality of Quantum of Solace big time, imo. I think they'd want a fully developed script before they start even considering rolling the cameras.

It's possible. I certainly think it was affected by Marc Forster admitting he only had 4 weeks to edit QOS and hinted he didn't think it was enough time.

..and boy didn't it show in places?

[delfloria]

Bring back the larger than life element of Bond...... Please! I could handle a Volcano, Little Nellie or a Liparus right about now.

[JimmyBond]

...but Haggis worked till October! The cameras rolled in Feb.

We have LOTS of time!

BOND 23 NEXT NOVEMBER!!!

That was only because of the writers strike. You know, if he missed the deadline OR the writers strike didn't happen, we probably would've had Quantum of Solace in May 2009.

The writers strike ed up the quality of Quantum of Solace big time, imo. I think they'd want a fully developed script before they start even considering rolling the cameras.

It's possible. I certainly think it was affected by Marc Forster admitting he only had 4 weeks to edit QOS and hinted he didn't think it was enough time.

..and boy didn't it show in places?

No. I don't believe it did.

[Tybre]

...but Haggis worked till October! The cameras rolled in Feb.

We have LOTS of time!

BOND 23 NEXT NOVEMBER!!!

That was only because of the writers strike. You know, if he missed the deadline OR the writers strike didn't happen, we probably would've had Quantum of Solace in May 2009.

The writers strike ed up the quality of Quantum of Solace big time, imo. I think they'd want a fully developed script before they start even considering rolling the cameras.

It's possible. I certainly think it was affected by Marc Forster admitting he only had 4 weeks to edit QOS and hinted he didn't think it was enough time.

..and boy didn't it show in places?

No. I don't believe it did.

I think there are a few brief moments where it shows but all in all it's fine.

[Simon]

We all know that Sheen worked with Morgan on Frost/Nixon, but it should also be noted that Morgan wrote the screenplays for quite a few more of Sheen's films: The Damned United, The Deal, The Queen, and up-coming film The Special Relationship. The "special relationship," it appears, exists between Sheen and Morgan, and Hewitt's interpretation of Morgan's involvement with the next James Bond flick entails an inclusion of Michael Sheen for a part.

Over on MI6.co.uk right now, it is suggested it will be Martin Sheen.

Is it me, or is their typo success rate appalling for a site involved with so many functions and partnerships?

[Zorin Industries]

...but Haggis worked till October! The cameras rolled in Feb.

We have LOTS of time!

BOND 23 NEXT NOVEMBER!!!

That was only because of the writers strike. You know, if he missed the deadline OR the writers strike didn't happen, we probably would've had Quantum of Solace in May 2009.

The writers strike ed up the quality of Quantum of Solace big time, imo. I think they'd want a fully developed script before they start even considering rolling the cameras.

It's possible. I certainly think it was affected by Marc Forster admitting he only had 4 weeks to edit QOS and hinted he didn't think it was enough time.

..and boy didn't it show in places?

Not in everyone's books.

And a director NEVER has enough time to edit a film.

[CaptainPower]

...but Haggis worked till October! The cameras rolled in Feb.

We have LOTS of time!

BOND 23 NEXT NOVEMBER!!!

That was only because of the writers strike. You know, if he missed the deadline OR the writers strike didn't happen, we probably would've had Quantum of Solace in May 2009.

The writers strike ed up the quality of Quantum of Solace big time, imo. I think they'd want a fully developed script before they start even considering rolling the cameras.

It's possible. I certainly think it was affected by Marc Forster admitting he only had 4 weeks to edit QOS and hinted he didn't think it was enough time.

..and boy didn't it show in places?

Not in everyone's books.

And a director NEVER has enough time to edit a film.

I was under the impression that the post production time alloted to Quantum was similiar to that of most recent Bond films. Isn't it usually always pretty tight?

[Zorin Industries]

...but Haggis worked till October! The cameras rolled in Feb.

We have LOTS of time!

BOND 23 NEXT NOVEMBER!!!

That was only because of the writers strike. You know, if he missed the deadline OR the writers strike didn't happen, we probably would've had Quantum of Solace in May 2009.

The writers strike ed up the quality of Quantum of Solace big time, imo. I think they'd want a fully developed script before they start even considering rolling the cameras.

It's possible. I certainly think it was affected by Marc Forster admitting he only had 4 weeks to edit QOS and hinted he didn't think it was enough time.

..and boy didn't it show in places?

Not in everyone's books.

And a director NEVER has enough time to edit a film.

I was under the impression that the post production time alloted to Quantum was similiar to that of most recent Bond films. Isn't it usually always pretty tight?

Any film that has a release date before it starts shooting is going to feel the pressure. But most films and most directors never get enough time. And SOLACE would have been assembled into some sort of cut as the film was being shot. You can't wait for the last take to go through the camera before you start editing.

[Quantumofsolace007]

We all know that Sheen worked with Morgan on Frost/Nixon, but it should also be noted that Morgan wrote the screenplays for quite a few more of Sheen's films: The Damned United, The Deal, The Queen, and up-coming film The Special Relationship. The "special relationship," it appears, exists between Sheen and Morgan, and Hewitt's interpretation of Morgan's involvement with the next James Bond flick entails an inclusion of Michael Sheen for a part.

Over on MI6.co.uk right now, it is suggested it will be Martin Sheen.

Is it me, or is their typo success rate appalling for a site involved with so many functions and partnerships?

As long as it's not Charlie Sheen or Emilio Estaves LMAO

[Zorin Industries]

It cannot be a coincidence that the three confirmed writers - Morgan, Purvis and Wade - are all working on spy adaptations of John Le Carre novels.

Purvis and Wade are writing THE MISSION SONG and Morgan is penning a remake of TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER SPY.

[DKnight007]

Well, lets just say that we should hope Morgan has more of hand in writing this story instead of Wade and Purvis.

I would say this should be Wade and Purvis last Bond film.

[Panavision]

So, Purvis and Wade come up with the story, then write a draft that everyone is happy with, then it goes to Pete Morgan to do the final polish. It's the same kind of deal that CR had, but in that case Haggis wasn't signed from the beginning. Here, they have openly admitted that Morgan is going to re-write Purvis and Wade. How bizarre.

No Joshua Zetumer then?

To be fair to Josh he was called in during production. The damage was already done by then.

[Zorin Industries]

So, Purvis and Wade come up with the story, then write a draft that everyone is happy with, then it goes to Pete Morgan to do the final polish. It's the same kind of deal that CR had, but in that case Haggis wasn't signed from the beginning. Here, they have openly admitted that Morgan is going to re-write Purvis and Wade. How bizarre.

Not bizarre in the slightest. It happens all the time.

And where did it say Morgan was going to rewrite Purvis and Wade?

For the record - writers do not write. They rewrite.

[Panavision]

So, Purvis and Wade come up with the story, then write a draft that everyone is happy with, then it goes to Pete Morgan to do the final polish. It's the same kind of deal that CR had, but in that case Haggis wasn't signed from the beginning. Here, they have openly admitted that Morgan is going to re-write Purvis and Wade. How bizarre.

Not bizarre in the slightest. It happens all the time.

And where did it say Morgan was going to rewrite Purvis and Wade?

For the record - writers do not write. They rewrite.

I'm reading between the lines here.
It's bizarre to state that "three" screenwriters will write Bond in a Press Release. There's no way Pete Morgan is going to write alongside Wade and Purvis*. It's obvious that Peter will do what Haggis did. Re-write/polish the duo's script.

* Wade and Purvis don't deserve all the crap they get.

[Zorin Industries]

So, Purvis and Wade come up with the story, then write a draft that everyone is happy with, then it goes to Pete Morgan to do the final polish. It's the same kind of deal that CR had, but in that case Haggis wasn't signed from the beginning. Here, they have openly admitted that Morgan is going to re-write Purvis and Wade. How bizarre.

Not bizarre in the slightest. It happens all the time.

And where did it say Morgan was going to rewrite Purvis and Wade?

For the record - writers do not write. They rewrite.

I'm reading between the lines here.
It's bizarre to state that "three" screenwriters will write Bond in a Press Release. There's no way Pete Morgan is going to write alongside Wade and Purvis*. It's obvious that Peter will do what Haggis did. Re-write/polish the duo's script.

* Wade and Purvis don't deserve all the crap they get.

Sorry. But I don't see it obvious at all. You don't know how the writing dynamic will work. Why wouldn't Morgan write alongside the other two?

[Panavision]

Because three writers don't work on a screenplay simultaneously, not in a situation like this. Wade and Purvis always come up with a story and a first draft, but seemingly unable to deliver a final draft. That is why Haggis was called for help on Casino Royale and why he was on Quantum of Solace*. Based on those scripts, the big-name writer comes in at the end to deliver a shooting draft. They SHOULD work together, though, because the duo of Wade and Purvis can pick things up and vice versa.

*The writers' strike prevent Haggis from completing the final draft. Josh does a production polish -- I've read his work, he's much better than what he did on QoS.

[Zorin Industries]

Because three writers don't work on a screenplay simultaneously, not in a situation like this. Wade and Purvis always come up with a story and a first draft, but seemingly unable to deliver a final draft. That is why Haggis was called for help on Casino Royale and why he was on Quantum of Solace*. Based on those scripts, the big-name writer comes in at the end to deliver a shooting draft. They SHOULD work together, though, because the duo of Wade and Purvis can pick things up and vice versa.

*The writers' strike prevent Haggis from completing the final draft. Josh does a production polish -- I've read his work, he's much better than what he did on QoS.

Phrases like "first draft" and "final draft" are regretably the reality and language of film discussion not film production. Any number of drafts are loosely classed as "first draft" and there is no such thing as a "final draft". And I say all of this from experience.

Of course writers (and any number of them) can work together simultaneously. You really don't think that each of the three writers mentioned here go off and write a draft each in the time BOND 23 will no doubt have?

You say Zettemer's work was usually "much better" than what he allegedly did for SOLACE, but have you read any of his work - for Bond or anything else? And I don't mean watching the final onscreen result or downloading illegal online versions of scripts (which are suspect at best and usually cut and paste jobs done by people who have never written a word of dialogue in their lives, ie. overkeen fans), but actual ones as provided to cast and crew and sanctioned by the producers?

And no-one writes a "shooting draft". There is no such thing and certainly not on a Bond where the logistics and production considerations change the goal posts all the time (which incidentally is where the likes of Purvis and Wade earn their money as it would probably be them and their experience that rewrites and rewrites a Bond film rather than Peter Morgan).

And why would this often mentioned but barely understood "Writers Strike" not allow Paul Haggis to not finish a SOLACE script but does allow Zettemer do when, presumably, they are both part of the US Writers Guild and wouldn't be able to?

[Simon]

I think trying to resolve just who was responsible for what in the production of a film is an impossibility, be it script or any other function.

Unless one is there every step of the way, checking out the various drafts and contributions, no one will be able to say a Person A script will be better or worse than a Person B script.

In fact, with so many people all volunteering this and that, I find it amazing that any films work at all as they are the vision of so many disparate characters.

[Blofeld's Cat]

So, Purvis and Wade come up with the story, then write a draft that everyone is happy with, then it goes to Pete Morgan to do the final polish. It's the same kind of deal that CR had, but in that case Haggis wasn't signed from the beginning. Here, they have openly admitted that Morgan is going to re-write Purvis and Wade. How bizarre.

As I have commented elsewhere it looks like Eon have now settled on an MO for penning a Bond movie based on what happened for the last two movies.

[Ambler]

I believe the process is roughly as follows:

1. Script conferences to pinpoint topical ideas, gadgets and video game tie-ins. Marketing and studio is present to ensure crucial demographics - China, gay men, women 19-34, teenage boys, say - are not left out and to decide on product placement.

2. The chosen elements are structured into a three-act script by Purvis and Wade who also add elements of the Bond novels to placate the enthusiast and maintain Danjaq's copyrights.

3. Script and dialogue refined by third and often fourth party with input from director and Daniel Craig. In Bond 23's case, this role will be played by Pete Morgan.

[Panavision]

Phrases like "first draft" and "final draft" are regretably the reality and language of film discussion not film production. Any number of drafts are loosely classed as "first draft" and there is no such thing as a "final draft". And I say all of this from experience.

I'm a non-produced screenwriter, but you are right, there is no concrete label per se for scripts in production development. I think it's easier to label it on the outside to avoid the confusion. It's probably better to discuss the pages in terms of colour, but we don't know the colours.

Of course writers (and any number of them) can work together simultaneously. You really don't think that each of the three writers mentioned here go off and write a draft each in the time BOND 23 will no doubt have?

And how often does that happen in film? Not very often, not when you have a writer like Pete Morgan in the game. As I said, I believe Wade and Purvis will write -- as they have done in the past -- a script(s) for Wilson to pour over, then Morgan will come in and produce something that everyone is happy with. There's a reason why Haggis came in on Casino Royale, there's a reason why they believe this formula works.

You say Zettemer's work was usually "much better" than what he allegedly did for SOLACE, but have you read any of his work - for Bond or anything else? And I don't mean watching the final onscreen result or downloading illegal online versions of scripts (which are suspect at best and usually cut and paste jobs done by people who have never written a word of dialogue in their lives, ie. overkeen fans), but actual ones as provided to cast and crew and sanctioned by the producers?

I've read his spec scripts. He's a very good action writer, which is probably why he was asked to work on the script during filming.

And why would this often mentioned but barely understood "Writers Strike" not allow Paul Haggis to not finish a SOLACE script but does allow Zettemer do when, presumably, they are both part of the US Writers Guild and wouldn't be able to?

The strike ended on 12th February, I suspect that's when Josh began working on it -- during filming.

[The Shark]

Great news. I'm glad Haggis is finally gone, hopefully also a goodbye to the self-important "trailer dialogue", too clever for its own good stamps such as the scenes with Vesper, and an overtly liberal, anti-American, and anti-Fleming standpoint.

[Zorin Industries]

Phrases like "first draft" and "final draft" are regretably the reality and language of film discussion not film production. Any number of drafts are loosely classed as "first draft" and there is no such thing as a "final draft". And I say all of this from experience.

I'm a non-produced screenwriter, but you are right, there is no concrete label per se for scripts in production development. I think it's easier to label it on the outside to avoid the confusion. It's probably better to discuss the pages in terms of colour, but we don't know the colours.

Mine is red here, only so I don't go mad on quotes within quotes!

Remember though that colour changes are the norm (certainly on Bond - I believe TOMORROW NEVER DIES had one white page left), and can be there for any number of structural, admin, logistical and change of dialogue reasons.

Of course writers (and any number of them) can work together simultaneously. You really don't think that each of the three writers mentioned here go off and write a draft each in the time BOND 23 will no doubt have?

And how often does that happen in film? Not very often, not when you have a writer like Pete Morgan in the game. As I said, I believe Wade and Purvis will write -- as they have done in the past -- a script(s) for Wilson to pour over, then Morgan will come in and produce something that everyone is happy with. There's a reason why Haggis came in on Casino Royale, there's a reason why they believe this formula works.

I imagine Morgan will not be just the hired script doctor. He is bigger and better than that and that will not be why he has been hired. Purvis and Wade are allegedly responsible - I imagine - for the story arc that was sketched out pre ROYALE. It has included SOLACE the film and SOLACE the Fleming title - a pre-ordained path of sorts that will continue into Craig's 3rd Bond. A story arc and the reasons for certain titles were plotted out quite a while back (from the proverbial word on the street).

You say Zettemer's work was usually "much better" than what he allegedly did for SOLACE, but have you read any of his work - for Bond or anything else? And I don't mean watching the final onscreen result or downloading illegal online versions of scripts (which are suspect at best and usually cut and paste jobs done by people who have never written a word of dialogue in their lives, ie. overkeen fans), but actual ones as provided to cast and crew and sanctioned by the producers?

I've read his spec scripts. He's a very good action writer, which is probably why he was asked to work on the script during filming.

And why would this often mentioned but barely understood "Writers Strike" not allow Paul Haggis to not finish a SOLACE script but does allow Zettemer do when, presumably, they are both part of the US Writers Guild and wouldn't be able to?

The strike ended on 12th February, I suspect that's when Josh began working on it -- during filming.

Though the action scenes are - because of costs, planning, logiistics and personnel - the parts of a Bond script that cannot change that much along the way - and, for example, February 2008 was quite a way into the whole production. I'm honestly not trying to disagree with you for the sake of it, but there are always other perspectives and things to remember.

There are also Strike ethics to remember and people didn't jump back to work as soon as the Strike officially ended, and certainly not on projects that had continued during the Strike.

[Orion]

I've always assumed Josh wasn't a member of the WGA, hence his hiring to do on-set re-writes.

Edited by Orion, 19 June 2009 - 04:18 PM.