196 replies to this topic

[Jack Spang]

I thought Haggis was doing the rewrite and polish at the same time..?

[DLibrasnow]

In a perfect world. I'm a freelance writer and have written a few advertorials for the local paper, in addition to the feature stories I normally write. Imagine my surprise when an advertorial I'd written a year earlier popped up in the paper again. First I'd heard of it, and no, I never got a penny from the second version.

As a newspaper editor who often retains the services of contracted freelancers I think I can address this for you.

Once something is published in the newspaper it becomes the property of that newspaper. That's a necessary and needed precaution that the newspaper requires. You were after all paid to provide something to the newspaper.

Say you are a plumber and you are paid for a job. Do you retain ownership of the pipes you laid? No, they belong to the owners of the property to use as they see fit.

Isn't "reuse" usually pretty clearly spelled out in a contract? It shouldn't be a surprise. Also you can negotiate terms of reuse (as you can negotiate anything in a contract). I know I wrote an article for a magic magazine once and I believe we granted one free reuse in their yearly "best of" issue. After that, they have to pay a percentage of the original payment price for each reuse. But maybe newspapers are different.

EDIT: Actually, I didn't write the article for the mag. It was an original I sold. So maybe that's why we could negotiate reuse.

Perhaps magazines are different. I know that the contract we have our freelancers sign clearly spells out that all materials published become the exclusive property of the newspaper and that written approval must be obtained before the writer of the material can have the material republished.

When I was a reporter at a newspaper in the Midwest I wrote a regular column generally centered on differences between the UK and USA. I was contacted by The Scottish Heritage Society (an organization of Americans who celebrate their Scottish heritage) asking if they could run the column in their magazine.

Since all material published in the newspaper was copyrighted, I had to get written permission from the corporate headquarters to have my work reprinted in another publication and the Scottish Heritage Society had to run a note attached to the column that read:

The preceding article is copyright Community Newspaper Holdings Inc and is reprinted here with permission.

[OmarB]

Wow there's a lotta love in here.

In any case, the strike's on, there's nothing any of us can do about it. If a person can't get off their high horse and support people being treated unfairly then that's on you. When one man's rights are stepped upon it diminishes us all, it's a slippery slope. One day it was the Jews, then it was the gays and on and on. If a huge industry can cheat contracts and get away with it then it just becomes a huger problem.

People are mad at writers because they don't have their precious TV shows. They think they flip a switch and it should be there without wondering about how it got there. I've seen threads on other boards where people are spewing such hate at people just trying to get their employers to honor contracts. Can you ire they with to be paid for their work! Didn't even lift a shovel, how dare they.

Imagine, being mad at people trying to get fairly paid by their employers? The gall! Writers are not in a coal mine but that does not make it any less of a problem. A person's well being is just that and denying someone a paycheck because of a contractual loophole is heartbreaking whatever industry it might be.

"Oh, you'll get paid 4 cents on every home video sale. Little do you know we don't sell videos, we sell DVDs and digital downloads and itunes and we don't have to pay you because non of it is on video tape."

[byline]

However, it simply AMUSES me, the concept of a Writers Strike: I find it hard not to smile when someone like Haggis can be paid $5,000,000 and winge then about corporate greed and excess.

You seem to presume that Haggis has always been in the $5 million bracket, but of course that's not the case. He slogged his way through for years and happened to be one of the fortunate few to come out in the high-income bracket. I appreciate the fact that he hasn't forgotten where he came from and is using his visibility to support all the writers, most of whom are on the opposite end of the pay spectrum.

But if that's amusing to you, so be it.

Edited by byline, 08 November 2007 - 06:33 PM.

[byline]

Perhaps magazines are different. I know that the contract we have our freelancers sign clearly spells out that all materials published become the exclusive property of the newspaper and that written approval must be obtained before the writer of the material can have the material republished.

Certainly when I was a full-time staff writer for a daily newspaper, everything I wrote that was published by the paper became the property of that paper (or, more accurately, the corporation that owned it).

I'd assumed that was the case when I started freelancing for our local paper's special projects department a few years ago. So I was a bit surprised to see the terms of our new contract that stipulated, among other things, that everything we provide is original, and also that rights to our stories and photos revert back to us after 90 days. Perhaps this came about as some sort of legal action taken against the corporation that owns our paper. I have no idea what the impetus was, just that we were all required to sign this new contract if we wanted to continue doing freelance work for this paper (or, for that matter, any paper owned by this particular corporation).

[zencat]

Back on topic.

Yesterday Variety and The Hollywood Reporter ran a two page ad listing the names of feature writers vowing "Not a Word" during the strike. In addition to Haggis are Purvis, Wade, and Bruce Feirstein (and yours truly).

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[Mr. Blofeld]

Erm... why is the first link upside-down?

[zencat]

Fixed.

[zencat]

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

oJ55Ir2jCxk

[Mr. Blofeld]

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

Could you describe it to me? I'm on a classroom computer that blocks YouTube.

[killkenny kid]

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

Thanks, Zen. Now I understand, get them Hell.

[DLibrasnow]

Back on topic.

Yesterday Variety and The Hollywood Reporter ran a two page ad listing the names of feature writers vowing "Not a Word" during the strike. In addition to Haggis are Purvis, Wade, and Bruce Feirstein (and yours truly).

So, zencat. Just to play devils advocate here:

If EON called you up today and asked to have a meeting with you - take it or leave it, you would say "No, thanks."

Is that really breaking the strike?

As a writer, though not a film or television writer, in principle I support the WGA. To me, the most fascinating area of the production of a Bond movie is the writing phase.

[zencat]

Back on topic.

Yesterday Variety and The Hollywood Reporter ran a two page ad listing the names of feature writers vowing "Not a Word" during the strike. In addition to Haggis are Purvis, Wade, and Bruce Feirstein (and yours truly).

So, zencat. Just to play devils advocate here:

If EON called you up today and asked to have a meeting with you - take it or leave it, you would say "No, thanks."

I would say thank you for the call, I would LOVE to sit down and talk...but you know I can't right now. But as soon as the strike is over, I'm there.

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

Thanks, Zen. Now I understand, get them Hell.

That is excellent, isn't it? Pass it along. Here's the embed code:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.c...></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.c...5Ir2jCxk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Could you describe it to me? I'm on a classroom computer that blocks YouTube.

Go here, Mr. Blofeld.

http://theliterary00...-on-strike.html

[Zorin Industries]

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

Great link there Zencat. It explains it brilliantly. Can someone please pass it on to David Schofield? Assuming he has any time to watch such "biased" fare as YouTube when you consider he has all those employees wages to count and "Employer Of The Year" medals to polish.

Edited by Zorin Industries, 09 November 2007 - 04:33 PM.

[zencat]

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

Great link there Zencat. It explains it brilliantly. Can someone please pass it on to David Schofield? Assuming he has any time to watch such "biased" fare as YouTube when you consider he has all those employees wages to count and "Employer Of The Year" medals to polish.

Information isn't going to change David's mind (I've tried). Some people need to believe what they believe, and are entitled to their belief. Besides someone needs to fight for poor Rupert Murdoch.

And we DID have a Bentley stop and take a flier yesterday. Unclear whether it was writer or not.

BTW, here's the embed code for the video. Post it and pass it along.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.c...></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.c...5Ir2jCxk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[DLibrasnow]

I see that California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has come out against the strike, based on the impact it is having putting everyone from hairstylists to carpenters out of work.

Quoted on the BBC Website:

"That's the sad story, because the studio executives are not going to suffer, the union leaders are not going to suffer, the writers that are striking, they are not going to suffer. Those are all people that have money," Mr Schwarzenegger said when asked about the strike.


http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/7086477.stm

[Arbogast777]

One thing I've been curious about as to how the rules work - maybe it's something you could answer, Zencat...

If you're EON sitting there with a Bond 22 script that just needs a "polish" before December... could Mark Forster and Michael G. Wilson clip a scene here or there, polish the dialog a little, move s few things around, etc??? I'm just trying to get a better picture of how things work.

[blueman]

Generally speaking, a good director has a good ear for dialogue. I would imagine that, if the strike went for two years say, EON would film the script Haggis turned in, give him (and P&W, if applicable) credit as contracted, and simply make whatever little changes along the way the production team felt were needed. Read the final script for CR, there are quite a few changes all through it from the final version on screen. Not a perfect solution, but workable I would think. I'm sure the lion's share has been done by Haggis already, so no worries from here on out.

[zencat]

I met Paul Haggis on the lines today.

No, I didn't ask him anything about Bond 22. I just introduced myself and shook his hand. I also took a pic, but his daughter is in it, so I don't want to post it online.

I'll give you this one instead.

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[Blofeld's Cat]

I like Miss Day 5!

Actually, in this day and age of word processors and computers the writer is STILL associated with the humble typewriter. As depicted in the the protest posters by use of typewriter fonts.

[RazorBlade]

I'll tell you a good non-union story.

I sold my first screenplay right out of college. We weren't in the union yet, so there were no minimums as to what they could pay us. No protections. We were just thrilled to get something made, and signed a flat deal. Two years later that movie came out in theaters and was #1 in the US. It was the top bill at my local movie house... and I passed it every day on my way to work at a video store, where I made something near minimum wage. Before I got another gig I was renting my own movie to people at Sam Goody.

The studio was making millions off my work, and I was cleaning kiddie vomit off the carpets for six bucks an hour in the children's video section.

Honest truth.

Dr. Noah, you're my hero. I hope things are better for you now.

I like Miss Day 5 too. She looks familiar. Who is it?

[ACE]

Words count.

[Bondian]

There's so much love in this thread that I can almost touch it. Almost.

LOL

As I always say, "if the workers get up yer nose - picket".

If you folk who're against these people earning so much money. (and this has already been said) How about the money their scripts actually earn the studio's/production company. Far more than what they get.

If a writer gets $5 million for writing a script that could gross a production company over $500 million, it's peanuts. Not even chocolate covered either.

BTW. I'm charging $5000 for anyone reading this post.

Cheers,


Ian

[byline]

BTW. I'm charging $5000 for anyone reading this post.

Well, there goes my pay for the year!

[Byron]

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

Great link there Zencat. It explains it brilliantly. Can someone please pass it on to David Schofield? Assuming he has any time to watch such "biased" fare as YouTube when you consider he has all those employees wages to count and "Employer Of The Year" medals to polish.

Ouch!

[Bondian]

BTW. I'm charging $5000 for anyone reading this post.

Well, there goes my pay for the year!

LOL

[Mr_Wint]

I saw that YouTube video. You can't really compare scriptwriters with book/song-writers. If the writers get royalties then the director, the editior, the composer, the production designer and so on should get royalties as well. Writers aren't the only ones doing 'creative' work on a filmproduction.

And with a $5 million paycheck, what is Haggis complaining about...

[David Schofield]

BTW. If you want to understand the issue of the strike, watch this. It's very good.

Great link there Zencat. It explains it brilliantly. Can someone please pass it on to David Schofield? Assuming he has any time to watch such "biased" fare as YouTube when you consider he has all those employees wages to count and "Employer Of The Year" medals to polish.

Information isn't going to change David's mind (I've tried). Some people need to believe what they believe, and are entitled to their belief. Besides someone needs to fight for poor Rupert Murdoch.

And we DID have a Bentley stop and take a flier yesterday. Unclear whether it was writer or not.

BTW, here's the embed code for the video. Post it and pass it along.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.c...></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.c...5Ir2jCxk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Morning all. Just thought I'd let you creative types enjoy your suffering and self pity, your sack cloth and ashes for a few days. You UK students enjoyed your Friday night in the poly-bar (sorry, Uni bar: everyone's equal now) putting the world to rights?

Me, been out for the papers this morning in the Aston while the bride-to-be prepared Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee. Picked up a copy of the Daily Worker.

As even that well known marxist theorist,Mr Zorin Industries (ooh, the irony) worked out, I have no problem with strike action. Nor the cause of th striking writers to improve their lot. Clearly, Hollywood is la-la land, but not in the way I'd originally imagined. I hoped I'd clarified that my attitude in post #109. And I have taken time to watch the You Tube stuff posted. And I'm prepared to accept it at face value, have no issue with bias. I like You Tube. Well, except for when it carries self-published stuff by gun nutters in Finland who go into schools killing people. (Finland's a country in Northern Europe for the benefit of the our home-bound American readers). But I digress.

But then, I am once again drawn to references that seem to imply that it's fine for Haggis to earn $5,000,000 and ideally more (and, dare I say it, Daniel Craig), but that once again Rubert Murdoch (according to Zen) seems to deserve a kicking (I deduce this from the fact that Zen has introduced him to the argument as someone I am apparently defending). I guess Murdoch deserves the kicking because he is a billionaire and runs the studios? The reckoning's cause he's not on the "creative" side, right, and that he just creams the profits? Similarly, I get personally criticised for providing employees wages....?!

Now these are the politics of the juvenile, the politics of Michael Moore (sorry if I've sited him again but he's the only mainstream American fantasy socıalıst I'm aware of, other that the odd few on these boards). They aren't arguments likely to lead anyone to accept that their is credibility in your position.

But I take you lot back to my original starting point which is along the lines of: a nurse in the UK can earn, approximately, with a degree,

[zencat]

I saw that YouTube video. You can't really compare scriptwriters with book/song-writers. If the writers get royalties then the director, the editior, the composer, the production designer and so on should get royalties as well. Writers aren't the only ones doing 'creative' work on a filmproduction.

Some of those artists you just named do get royalists (and will lose them just as writers will under the proposed definition of all things internet being strictly "promotional"). And how can you say a song doesn't compare? Do you shove a sheet of written music into your CD player? There are many artists who go into a creation of a song; musicians, engineers, editors, etc. Same situation. The difference is the music industry, as far as I know, is not playing this game and claiming MP3's don't count as a "real" form of music distribution. They have been fair and honest with the artists hence you never saw a music strike.

The "why should writers get residuals when the janitor doesn't" argument comes down to your own personal belief in how important a writer and a screenplay is in the process of creating a movie and TV show. Also, how valuable a good writer is as an artist and just how hard they are to find. The way the industry breaks it down is they (did) think the writer is valuable enough to share a 2.5% of residual sales (for which the writer hands back 1.5% to the union for pension, health insurance, etc). They consider directors and movie stars far MORE valuable because in addition to residuals they get first dollar gross profit participation and up front pay that no writer will ever make.

I'm sorry assistant editors, costumers, etc. don't get residual checks directly -- but their unions do, and that's what pays their pensions, health insurance, etc (and why these unions can have very modest dues). So if writers let the companies define all internet media of "promotional" and let the residual sharing concept die, all those people who work to create a movie WILL be hurt as well. Many understand this and that's why many support the strike. Because, frankly, the costumers union isn't going to be able to pull off a strike like this, and the directors union won't do it because they are thrilled with their gross profit participation deal.

The WGA (and SAG) have always been the unions on the front lines, and this is a fight that happens every 20 years or so when a new form of distribution appears. The position of the writers and actors is treat the new like the old and lets get on with it. The companies scream about it, but eventually make a deal and, amazingly, have not gone broke for doing so.

Very nice looking young lady you managed to photograph, though, John.

I'm sending her over to personally persuade you.

[zencat]

Back on topic.

Yesterday Variety and The Hollywood Reporter ran a two page ad listing the names of feature writers vowing "Not a Word" during the strike. In addition to Haggis are Purvis, Wade, and Bruce Feirstein (and yours truly).

There's now an online version of the add. Michael France has joined his fellow Bond alums.