93 replies to this topic

[Daddy Bond]

So why do you think that NSNA is so ignored? I realize that it is not a part of the "official" canon of Bond films and it lacks several of the cinematic elements that the other Bond films have, but why is it treated like the unwanted step child?

I'm sure EON just wanted to go away, but still, it is a Bond movie starring many people's favorite Bond actor - in better shape than he was in DAF. Yet it pops up so rarely in discussions, lists, etc.

I understand EON's perspective, but why is it so ignored elsewhere by Bond fans?

For me, it's my least favorite Bond film - that's for sure - but hey, it is still Bond.

Any opinions?

[Judo chop]

I don

[DamnCoffee]

Never Say Never Again would be ok - with a gunbarrel and a Bond theme.

[The Dove]

and minus Kim Basinger!!

[Mr. Somerset]

I have to be in the mood for NSNA. There are several elements I really like: The wargames sequence, fight at Shrublands, Barbara Carrara, the 52 year old Sean's thick accent, and the amazingly funny scene where a singing Bond is riding a bike with a loafer wearing jogging/ shadow boxing Felix Leiter. I'll have to get a jogging outfit like that.
Seriously, this film did seem to pop up on cable stations often a few years ago. I would up sitting through a bit of it each time. Too bad there isn't a decent dvd release with a documentary/commentary and deleted scenes. There were some dvd copies ahile back that were missing footage. There's probably an old thread on that somewhere.

[Judo chop]

and minus Kim Basinger!!

Yeah, really. What an empty shell of an actress she is.

[Daddy Bond]

So what would the chances be of the studio re-editing NSNA with gunbarrel, Bond music, etc.? Or would EON have a fit?

[stromberg]

So why do you think that NSNA is so ignored?

Because that's what it deserves?

***ducks***

No, honestly, I'm having less problems with NSNA then I used to have, but I still don't rate it very high.

But it actually is very popular in Germany, which may be down to the fact (but not entirely) that Brandauer is in it (he is Austrian, but the German audience has somewhat adopted him). It's very often named as one of the best Bond movies, not only by the general audience but also by movie critics, and there's a number of German Thunderball paperback editions that don't have the original title "Feuerball" (Fireball) but "Sag niemals nie" (Never say never).

But then again, Hasselhoff was (and still is to a lesser extent) popular over here, too

[Loomis]

So why do you think that NSNA is so ignored? I realize that it is not a part of the "official" canon of Bond films and it lacks several of the cinematic elements that the other Bond films have....

Well, there's your answer right there. Many Bond fans ignore it simply because it's not part of the hallowed (Church of) Broccoli series. It was born out of wedlock, on the wrong side of the bed, or whatever. I think it's a stupid reason to dismiss what is - well, in my opinion, anyway - an outstanding James Bond film (and a vast improvement on the flabby THUNDERBALL), but it seems to me that this blinkered thinking does, alas, prevail in fandom.

So what would the chances be of the studio re-editing NSNA with gunbarrel, Bond music, etc.?

Nil. I'd imagine there's a better chance of Brosnan coming back for BOND 23.

[Daddy Bond]

So why do you think that NSNA is so ignored?

Because that's what it deserves?

***ducks***

No, honestly, I'm having less problems with NSNA then I used to have, but I still don't rate it very high.

But it actually is very popular in Germany, which may be down to the fact (but not entirely) that Brandauer is in it (he is Austrian, but the German audience has somewhat adopted him). It's very often named as one of the best Bond movies, not only by the general audience but also by movie critics, and there's a number of German Thunderball paperback editions that don't have the original title "Feuerball" (Fireball) but "Sag niemals nie" (Never say never).

But then again, Hasselhoff was (and still is to a lesser extent) popular over here, too

Hey, a country where the Hoff is popular can't be wrong on too many things. One of the great musical talents of our time! I can never quite figure out why he didn't win an Emmy for either Baywatch or Knight Rider?

The Germans do seem to go for cheesy 70's and 80's stuff - I'm not sure why - but hey, whatever floats das boat! NSNA seems to fit nicely into that niche. If there ever was an 80's Bond pic, NSNA is it! I don't mean other Bond films weren't made in the 80's - only that NSNA has an extra dose of 80's goofiness about it. Don't you agree?

[Mister Asterix]

So what would the chances be of the studio re-editing NSNA with gunbarrel, Bond music, etc.? Or would EON have a fit?

[mra]the studio? None. A fan? Done.


Drummond Greeve

[Daddy Bond]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='785048' date='19 October 2007 - 15:08'][quote name='Daddy Bond' post='785041' date='19 October 2007 - 14:40']So what would the chances be of the studio re-editing NSNA with gunbarrel, Bond music, etc.? Or would EON have a fit?[/quote]

[mra]the studio? None. A fan? Done.


Drummond Greeve

[Mr. Blofeld]

Hmmm, sounds interesting...

Now, if only someone could re-edit Thunderball to make it less flabby!

[DamnCoffee]

Actually the only good thing about Never Say Never Again is Barbara Carrera, whos portrayal of Fatima Blush is fantastic.

[Royal Dalton]

I quite like Never Say Never Again, despite its flaws.

The only thing I really hate about it is Rowan Atkinson's cringeworthy performance as the 'hilariously-named' Nigel Small-Fawcett.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Actually the only good thing about Never Say Never Again is Barbara Carrera, whos portrayal of Fatima Blush is fantastic.

Ditto. She's also very gorgeous.
But the main reason everybody ignores
Never Say Never Again is simple...
its an unnoficial film. It's Bond without Bond.

Edited by nicolas_suszczyk, 19 October 2007 - 09:34 PM.

[JimmyBond]

But the main reason everybody ignores
Never Say Never Again is simple...
its an unnoficial film. It's Bond without Bond.

Sad but true. I feel NSNA is every bit a Bond film as any of the 21 official films. It's an action/adventure movie starring James Bond played by Sean Connery, what more do you need?

Now the reason I ignore it? I think it's an incredibly boring film, at a time when Moore was playing the comedic Bond angle to perfection, to have Connery come back to immitate that was just unforgivable. If they had given us a FRWL/GF style Bond film than it would have been cause for celebration.

And for a film that's not tied down to EON's formula, they sure made a very formulaic film.

[Mister Asterix]

But the main reason everybody ignores
Never Say Never Again is simple...
its an unnoficial film. It's Bond without Bond.

Sad but true...

Not true though. Never Say Never Again is as official of a James Bond as any of the Eon films. They had the rights to make a Bond film and they did.

[Double-0-7]

I am somewhere between Nicolas and Mr* on this one.

They had the legal rights and the star to make this movie. The baddie and henchwoman are excellent, as are the locales. If you enjoyed Thunderball then you should like the overall plot.

Give it some of the EON touches - gunbarrel, theme songs, a decent soundtrack, and it would seem more like what we think of as an official Bond film. The movie slows down at points, and is downright lame at others. I thought the World Domination video game was horrible, but the dance that Bond won really set the tone for how the rest of the movie would go.

This film gets more time in the viewing rotation than some of the others, I consider it a pretty good movie. It might be official, but it doesn't quite follow the EON formula that we expect.

[HH007]

Aside from the title song, I like the first half of NSNA. It's somewhere around the halfway point that the film loses steam and just becomes boring.

[RJJB]

I've always liked NSNA. Its one cringeworthy scene for me was Bond and Felix being fired out of the submarine on the jet platforms. The jetpack in Thunderball was real, these things were far too much in the realm of sci-fi for my tastes.

Edited by RJJB, 19 October 2007 - 11:05 PM.

[Turn]

I was just thinking about one of the small moments I really like in NSNA, when Bond lifts the Luger (or whatever gun it is) off the henchman when he enters Largo's charity event. He twirls it on his finger and drops it into a champagne bucket.

Maybe that's the best way of looking at NSNA, a film with some very nice little moments rather than as a whole, where it just doesn't hold together. This discussion makes me really want to watch this again, it's been a while.

[JimmyBond]

But the main reason everybody ignores
Never Say Never Again is simple...
its an unnoficial film. It's Bond without Bond.

Sad but true...

Not true though. Never Say Never Again is as official of a James Bond as any of the Eon films. They had the rights to make a Bond film and they did.

Unofficial only in the sense that EON didnt produce it, that's all I was replying to, that is the reason most fans dislike it.

[Colossus]

I regard both CR 54 and NSNA as part of the series, because they were legitimate attempts to make a Bond movie, unlike a parody like CR 67.

That said NSNA puts quite a few EON Bonds to shame.

[Cruiserweight]

Because it stinks.

[Barbershop Quartet]

I find that Never Say Never Again lacks the charm of the Connery's or even the whole of the Bond franchise.

Something about it feels knocked together about it! There are too many bits that don't gel for me.

[David Schofield]

I with Loom and Mr* and the rest in defending NSNA.

OK, its not the best Bond film - but it is by no means the worst.

Sure, after 12 years, the much-anticipated return of Connery was a disappointment - by early Connery-Bond standards. But that level had failed to be achieved for Connery's previous two Bond's, hadn't it?

And, of course, it was not made by Cubby. And among many, many Bond fans Cubby can do not wrong. The VAST majority of what Cubby did with Bond was superb business. But not all; he lacked the courage to bin Roger at the end of the 1970s and take Bond in another direction. A decision his onw stepson and daughter had no problem in making with the dumping of Brosnan.

And, of course, the unsatifactory nature of NSNA and its beating both in review and at the box office give the Rog diehards the opportunity to laud their man over Connery, for once. (Or twice as LALD is far better than its Connery-driven predecessor, DAF. Though none of the films mentioned here are fit to lace the boots of OHMSS...)

NSNA WAS a wasted opportunity. It had so much going for it. A great cast, a returning, older Connery. But it was no more a wasted opportunity than much of the Fleming that EON has discarded over the years. And no more a wasted opportunity than FYEO, say.

Daniel Craig's second Bond film will not be Bond #22. It will be #23. Fact. Because NSNA is a Bond film. And that shouldn't be forgotten.

[Trident]

NSNA WAS a wasted opportunity. It had so much going for it. A great cast, a returning, older Connery. But it was no more a wasted opportunity than much of the Fleming that EON has discarded over the years. And no more a wasted opportunity than FYEO, say.

I agree on most of the above. But the most serious lack NSNA had for me was that it hadn't a plot of its own and only could redo the 'Thunderball' story (and that's why I'm no friend of remakes of previous Bond films).

I sometimes wonder if the film had done any better had they had the opportunity to invent a completely new plot and characters? For example I'd have liked to see more of the exercise-scenario when Bond tries to free the hostage in the jungle. Or if they had done a true definite climax and end to the Bond vs. SPECTRE affair and have the older Bond fighting the older Blofeld in person, refering to the previous clashes of them and Bond's dead wife?

Edited by Trident, 20 October 2007 - 10:17 AM.

[bond 16.05.72]

I dislike it because it's rubbish, god Connery seems to get such slack just because of his status in the series, he was dreadful in it. Everything about it screams awful.

Better than TB, I have to laugh when I see that.

[Safari Suit]

In my experience it's not ignored. I hear it come up as often as most other Bond films.

I don't hear many saying they like it, however.