31 replies to this topic

[kneelbeforezod]

After they have dinner, Vesper excuses herself saying that Mathis needs her... after a sip of drink, something suddenly twigs in Bond's mind, he mutters "Mathis" and goes chasing after Vesper...

...why?

[capungo]

Hmm... To be honest, the first time I saw it, I had no clue either. I just figured it was Bond sense or something. The second time I caught it, I think there might've been something up w/ her saying that Mathis told her that the Americans had just made contact with Le Chiffre. Other then that I'm as clueless as you are, so I guess we're both slightly dumb

[wendy54]

In the book it's a bit clearer..Bond senses there's something not quite right...he's probably wondering why Mathis would want to see Vesper alone, why he would send her a vague message on her phone rather than coming to see her in person... It's also possible that he might have figured out that somebody had to have told Le Chiffre about the tell, though I'm not certain on that point.

[Cody]

It's also possible that he might have figured out that somebody had to have told Le Chiffre about the tell

That's what I assumed.

[rogermoore007]

Isn't it because Le Chiffre says "your friend mathis is actually my friend mathis" or something to that effect during the previous scene? (I think the torture scene)

[Vauxhall]

Isn't it because Le Chiffre says "your friend mathis is actually my friend mathis" or something to that effect during the previous scene? (I think the torture scene)

That actually occurs afterwards - when the car crashes, before Bond is tortured.

Another question I have about this scene is why Leiter and the CIA haven't made contact with Le Chiffre yet and arrested him. Seems strange that they'd leave him until morning, and seems even stranger still that they wouldn't have him under observation.

[rogermoore007]

Isn't it because Le Chiffre says "your friend mathis is actually my friend mathis" or something to that effect during the previous scene? (I think the torture scene)

That actually occurs afterwards - when the car crashes, before Bond is tortured.

My bad....so I guess he just knew because of the whole Le Chiffre "tell" thing during the card game?

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

It's definitely unclear in the movie... in the book Bond doesn't understand why Mathis would text Vesper and ask to me her alone - it just doesn't feel right to him so he goes to investigate.

[Rich_19]

They didnt have SMS back in those days i believe lol

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

They didnt have SMS back in those days i believe lol

Hmm, forgive the American but is SMS just British for text message?

[shady ginzo]

I too was stumped the first time, again resigning to "bond sense" and then quickly crossing my legs for the scene which followed.

on a second viewing, and with Bond's later comment about how somebody must have tipped of Le Chiffre about the tell in mind, I think this must be what went through his head at that moment, as though he had been wondering how lechiffre caught on and then suddenly with all this vaguely suspicious secretive SMS messaging to Vesper, the penny dropped.

not a perfect answer, but it does for me.

and BTW, perhaps I can enter my own entry into the "possibly slightly dumb question" thread....

for the life of me, I can't understand why at the frist interval of the poker game, bond follows le chiffre, collects his gun and seemingly starts an assassination attempt (only to be beaten to his target by the "freedom fighters" whom Le Chiffre owes money)

I just don't see what Bond is trying to achieve!! this seems to contradict the purpose of his mission

Edited by shady ginzo, 29 November 2006 - 01:02 AM.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

for the life of me, I can't understand why at the frist interval of the poker game, bond follows le chiffre, collects his gun and seemingly starts an assassination attempt (only to be beaten to his target by the "freedom fighters" whom Le Chiffre owes money)

I just don't see what Bond is trying to achieve!! this seems to contradict the purpose of his mission

I figured it was just surveillance - the bug and all - he just took the gun with him because....you know....why not? never know when you'll be assaulted by machete wielding Ugandans.

[shady ginzo]

I figured it was just surveillance - the bug and all - he just took the gun with him because....you know....why not? never know when you'll be assaulted by machete wielding Ugandans.

yeah, I didn't think there was a particular goal at all in that scene, as a note I love the way bond so casually just leaves a gun in an envelope at reception. and however well prepared he was for the chance fight he encountered, the only shot the gun actually fired was random and accidental, and bond still slaughters both men! as they say, why should bond sleep with a gun under his pillow, when he could clearly kill you with the pillow

Edited by shady ginzo, 29 November 2006 - 01:10 AM.

[pedroarmendariz]

if you remember the scene when bond tells vesper that mathis betrayed him by telling le chiffre that he, bond, knew when le chiffre was bluffing. now take that knowledge and apply it to the end of the dinner scene. when vesper tells bond that mathis is calling her away from bond, bond already suspects mathis of being a foe and not a friend. therefore when bond says mathis's name, he means that vesper is in trouble and that mathis's call is a trap. le chiffre probably was going to trade the money for vesper, but bond just made it easy for him by following him right away.

[capungo]

Not to sound like I don't believe anyone here, but when did Bond say that there had to be some inside man to tell Le Chiffre that Bond picked up on his tell? From what I assumed, Le Chiffre had been faking that tell from the very beginning. Given that he was supposedly obsessed with the sport, wouldn't he have studied how he plays over the years to check for such tells? Surely one as obvious as putting your hand to your face would've been picked up by him long ago. And knowing the stakes of such a match, wouldn't Le Chiffre pull every trick in his book, such as a fake tell.

Trust me, I wish I believed it were the case, as it would give a good answer to why Bond suspected Mathis, but that would suggest that Le Chiffre was making some really amateur mistakes in his game, which I find hard to swallow.

As for Bond following Le Chiffre to his room, I think it was just some eavesdropping. He took the gun because I guess it's just better to have one handy.

[Cody]

From what I assumed, Le Chiffre had been faking that tell from the very beginning. Given that he was supposedly obsessed with the sport, wouldn't he have studied how he plays over the years to check for such tells? Surely one as obvious as putting your hand to your face would've been picked up by him long ago. And knowing the stakes of such a match, wouldn't Le Chiffre pull every trick in his book, such as a fake tell.

I think it was real. Le Chiffre catches himself doing it for real again later in the game and folds. (The shot when he tosses the cards into camera.)

[shady ginzo]

From what I assumed, Le Chiffre had been faking that tell from the very beginning. Given that he was supposedly obsessed with the sport, wouldn't he have studied how he plays over the years to check for such tells? Surely one as obvious as putting your hand to your face would've been picked up by him long ago. And knowing the stakes of such a match, wouldn't Le Chiffre pull every trick in his book, such as a fake tell.

I think it was real. Le Chiffre catches himself doing it for real again later in the game and folds. (The shot when he tosses the cards into camera.)

that is the single reason I believe the tell is genuine, and therefore played a genuine part in mathis' discovery.

[JCRendle]

If it was indeed Mathis who betrayed Bond with the tell, but I've said enough on the subject, so I'll leave it there.

[shady ginzo]

Maybe people are wondering if the leak came from Vesper, but seeing as Le Chiffre wastes not time informind bond that "[Bond's]friend mathis, is really [his] friend mathis" I don't see where the argument comes from!

[JCRendle]

Could be many reasons, taking suspicion away from Vesper, mental torture etc.

[TimorousBeastie]

Could be many reasons, taking suspicion away from Vesper, mental torture etc.

Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it. Le Chiffre was probably hoping that Bond's love of Vesper would get him to turn over the money, but he knew that if he had said 'Vesper is my friend Vesper', a bargaining chip would be lost (Bond wouldn't act to protect her any more).
Vesper and Le Chiffre knew that by saying Mathis had called her, it would make it easier for Bond to see Mathis as the leak. (Which means that Vesper was in on trying to blame Mathis.)

For no reason whatsoever, I thought that what tipped Bond off to the suspiciousness of that SMS was that he knew Mathis had left town, or something. I assumed Bond knew of a reason why Mathis couldn't have been the one to SMS. And I'm just going to keep thinking that, because it's easiest.

[00Twelve]

As they say, why should bond sleep with a gun under his pillow, when he could clearly kill you with the pillow?

LOL, I think Craig's Bond is about the only one I believe could actually do it!

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Could be many reasons, taking suspicion away from Vesper, mental torture etc.

Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it. Le Chiffre was probably hoping that Bond's love of Vesper would get him to turn over the money, but he knew that if he had said 'Vesper is my friend Vesper', a bargaining chip would be lost (Bond wouldn't act to protect her any more).
Vesper and Le Chiffre knew that by saying Mathis had called her, it would make it easier for Bond to see Mathis as the leak. (Which means that Vesper was in on trying to blame Mathis.)

That was exactly the way I took it.

[Mister Asterix]

Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it.

[mra]Yes, or possibly Le Chiffre was not talking about the real Mathis, but rather

[Navy007Fan]

IIRC, in the book, the note for Vesper to see Mathis was a tip off because Vesper did not work directly for Mathis, she worked for Bond. I think this is also the case in the film. Why would Mathis want to see Vesper without Bond? Mathis supported Bond in his mission, not the otherway around.

[Mr_Wint]

for the life of me, I can't understand why at the frist interval of the poker game, bond follows le chiffre, collects his gun and seemingly starts an assassination attempt (only to be beaten to his target by the "freedom fighters" whom Le Chiffre owes money)

I just don't see what Bond is trying to achieve!! this seems to contradict the purpose of his mission

I figured it was just surveillance - the bug and all - he just took the gun with him because....you know....why not? never know when you'll be assaulted by machete wielding Ugandans.

I have a theory: Bond brings a gun in case Le Chiffre is in trouble? He wants Le Chiffre alive - that's the mission - and not killed by his organisation. Bond acts as a bodyguard for the villain.

[Head of S]

Hmm... To be honest, the first time I saw it, I had no clue either. I just figured it was Bond sense or something. The second time I caught it, I think there might've been something up w/ her saying that Mathis told her that the Americans had just made contact with Le Chiffre. Other then that I'm as clueless as you are, so I guess we're both slightly dumb

You've pretty much got it. The only people who knew that Le Chiffre was going to be picked up by the Americans was Bond, Leiter and Le Chiffre. When Vesper received the text, supposedly from Mathis, there was no reason why Mathis would know about the American plan, therefore Bond smalls a rat. This is the first part of Vesper's betrayal of Bond and the plot to frame Mathis.

[George Kaplan]

Could be many reasons, taking suspicion away from Vesper, mental torture etc.

Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it. Le Chiffre was probably hoping that Bond's love of Vesper would get him to turn over the money, but he knew that if he had said 'Vesper is my friend Vesper', a bargaining chip would be lost (Bond wouldn't act to protect her any more).
Vesper and Le Chiffre knew that by saying Mathis had called her, it would make it easier for Bond to see Mathis as the leak. (Which means that Vesper was in on trying to blame Mathis.)

Except, IIRC Vesper isn't working for Le Chiffre (if she were Le Chiffre wouldn't need to go through the trouble to get the money, Vesper could dump it off to him like she did to her real employer in the movie).

As far as Le Chiffre knows, Vesper is Bond's assistant.

For no reason whatsoever, I thought that what tipped Bond off to the suspiciousness of that SMS was that he knew Mathis had left town, or something. I assumed Bond knew of a reason why Mathis couldn't have been the one to SMS. And I'm just going to keep thinking that, because it's easiest.

I think its fairly straight forward in that there was no reason for Mathis to contact Vesper directly and Bond guessed (a little late) the message was fake. It could also be guessing who tipped Le Chiffre off on his tell.

Either way it didn't even strike me as odd when I saw the film.

I have a theory: Bond brings a gun in case Le Chiffre is in trouble? He wants Le Chiffre alive - that's the mission - and not killed by his organisation. Bond acts as a bodyguard for the villain.

Its been a couple of weeks since I saw the film but doesn't Bond see one of the "Ugandans" watching/following Le Chiffre?

[Mr_Wint]

I have a theory: Bond brings a gun in case Le Chiffre is in trouble? He wants Le Chiffre alive - that's the mission - and not killed by his organisation. Bond acts as a bodyguard for the villain.

Its been a couple of weeks since I saw the film but doesn't Bond see one of the "Ugandans" watching/following Le Chiffre?

No, I cant remember that. They comes as a total surprise to both the audience and Le Chiffre... after Valenka's "I'm sorry".

[George Kaplan]

Hmmm...guess I should go watch the film again then, could have sworn that was there...