22 replies to this topic

[eweng9246]

I just saw the movie and quite enjoyed it.

However, there's one scene I can't quite understand. When Bond is dining with Vesper and she recieves a call saying that Mathis wants to see her, how did Bond realize that Mathis is a double agent?

[Mister Asterix]

I assume Bond found it odd that Mathis would send a message to Vesper and not ask for both of him. This gets Bond starting to try to put two and two together. Unfortunately for Mathis Bond gets five as I don’t believe Mathis betrayed him.

[TheREAL008]

Come to think of it, why didn't Bond catch onto Vesper sooner? To me, that scene was a giveaway right from the moment Vesper left the table...

[K1Bond007]

I just saw the movie and quite enjoyed it.

However, there's one scene I can't quite understand. When Bond is dining with Vesper and she recieves a call saying that Mathis wants to see her, how did Bond realize that Mathis is a double agent?

He realizes that he lost to Le Chiffre the first time because someone told Le Chiffre that Bond knew his tell. Since Bond was so blinded by his (presumably, at that point) love for Vesper he assumed it was Mathis. Even whether Mathis is actually bad is unknown despite Le Chiffre essentially confirming it to him moments later.

[Mr. Du Pont]

I don't think that scene was meant to show Bond realizing Mathis was a double agent. When Bond paused, thought, and said, "Mathis," I think he was simply realizing something was amiss and he'd better check it out quickly.

I take the novel as my cue here. In the novel Bond simply thought to himself after Vesper left that it wasn't Mathis' style to send a note (underdressed or not for a fancy establishment). Of course, in the novel we have the benefit of "reading Bond's mind," whereas in the movie we do not.

The movie scene is open to interpretation, but I wouldn't want to make a definitive statement on it just based on a one word line from 007.

[MR. BOND 93]

^ Exactly Du Pont.

I'm glad I read the book or else I wouldn't of understood it either.

[JWM]

what about the scene with the two thugs in the hotel? If it was vesper why did she help bond out get that gun out of the one thugs hand?

[yolt13]

what about the scene with the two thugs in the hotel? If it was vesper why did she help bond out get that gun out of the one thugs hand?

That's an easy one. Bond didn't have the money yet, and Vesper's job was to get the money. Not for Le Chiffre, but for the higher-ups in the organization, who knew Le Chiffre had already blown their cash and couldn't be trusted to safeguard it even if he won it back.

[JWM]

what about the shower scene was she really upset about witnessing the killing of those men or what? I think this has been posted above.

[marktmurphy]

I don't think that scene was meant to show Bond realizing Mathis was a double agent. When Bond paused, thought, and said, "Mathis," I think he was simply realizing something was amiss and he'd better check it out quickly.

Yes- that's how I took it. He says 'Mathis?' as a question to himself because it's wrong that he'd be texting her, he doesn't exclaim 'Mathis!' in a way that would suggest he's worked something out.

I take the novel as my cue here. In the novel Bond simply thought to himself after Vesper left that it wasn't Mathis' style to send a note (underdressed or not for a fancy establishment).

Oh right- that makes sense. It really isn't clear in the film at all.
It's possible he's confused because Mathis is Bond's contact and shouldn't really be asking for Vesper at all, but as we've seen them together a lot over the course of the film it isn't really that surprising.

[Monkeyfoahead]

what about the shower scene was she really upset about witnessing the killing of those men or what? I think this has been posted above.

This scene was Bond showing a more human side and comforting her. Working as a loan officer for the Royal Treasury, she doesn't normally see people killed in front of her. Just that fact could put you into shock like she was.

[bill007]

I take the novel as my cue here.

Exactly. As the novel indicates, Bond realizes this was not a message from Mathis. Nothing more, nothing less.

[marktmurphy]

Okay- here's another:
When Bond takes Dimitrios' phone at the Bodyworlds exhibition he sees the 'ELLIPSIS' message which he sent to the Madagascar Bomber (with the 19.12 time stamp). When he realises that Carlos has made off with the bag at the exhibition and Bond has lost him, he calls up the ELLIPSIS message (with the 19.12 stamp clearly on it) and dials the number so he can watch for someone answering their phone. Except that message was sent to the dead Madagascar Bomber; not Carlos. Bond already has the phone that message was sent to- how come it connects to Carlos' phone?

[stone cold]

one thing im somewhat unclear on is this -

after bond personally kills the 2 africans who threatened le chiffre - u would think le chiffre would mention this to bond during torturing or something.. or at least register that maybe he should thank this badass who killed his enemies? you can see that le chiffre see these 2 bodies out the window being put into the car. surely he would fear bond at this point - when he returns to table..

i dunno - just seemed like a slightly vague series of repercussions came from this incident.

.

Edited by stone cold, 27 November 2006 - 01:55 PM.

[Vauxhall]

When Bond takes Dimitrios' phone at the Bodyworlds exhibition he sees the 'ELLIPSIS' message which he sent to the Madagascar Bomber (with the 19.12 time stamp). When he realises that Carlos has made off with the bag at the exhibition and Bond has lost him, he calls up the ELLIPSIS message (with the 19.12 stamp clearly on it) and dials the number so he can watch for someone answering their phone. Except that message was sent to the dead Madagascar Bomber; not Carlos. Bond already has the phone that message was sent to- how come it connects to Carlos' phone?

Only explanation is that this is a mistake I think! The date and time are both clearly wrong.

[Publius]

It's possible he's confused because Mathis is Bond's contact and shouldn't really be asking for Vesper at all, but as we've seen them together a lot over the course of the film it isn't really that surprising.

That's what I always thought. It only took him a matter of seconds before realizing it odd that Mathis would be calling on Vesper, the Treasury representative, instead of himself, the actual field agent. Between the late hour, excitement over achieving the objective, and Bond's mind being elsewhere, I can understand that brief delayed reaction. What I don't understand is how Vesper made it so far in that short time. Then again, I don't think Vesper was in cahoots with Le Chiffre per se (okay, not at all) so much as she was with The Organization.

Okay- here's another:
When Bond takes Dimitrios' phone at the Bodyworlds exhibition he sees the 'ELLIPSIS' message which he sent to the Madagascar Bomber (with the 19.12 time stamp). When he realises that Carlos has made off with the bag at the exhibition and Bond has lost him, he calls up the ELLIPSIS message (with the 19.12 stamp clearly on it) and dials the number so he can watch for someone answering their phone. Except that message was sent to the dead Madagascar Bomber; not Carlos. Bond already has the phone that message was sent to- how come it connects to Carlos' phone?

One could presume Dimitrios called Carlos that night to give him the go-ahead to replace Mollaka (that is, if he would have been the man to do the job instead). In that case, it was simply lazy filming/editing that treated the two numbers as the same.

[MR. BOND 93]

what about the shower scene was she really upset about witnessing the killing of those men or what? I think this has been posted above.

This scene was Bond showing a more human side and comforting her. Working as a loan officer for the Royal Treasury, she doesn't normally see people killed in front of her. Just that fact could put you into shock like she was.

Well let's not forget: She isn't really working for the Royal Treasury. Since this wasn't explained in the movie, I'll put it in spoilers (Don't look if you haven't read the CR Novel):

Spoiler

She's really a Double O Agent for the Russians.

I think that job kinda lets her get some more blood on her hands...

[wendy54]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the movie Vesper isn't working directly for MI6 , but rather as an accountant for the treasury right? So in the movie, she wouldn't have been an agent at all (which is a departure from the book), which precludes her from being a double agent....she is simply exploited by the Organization when her boyfriend is kidnapped and presumably reveals information about her... What remains unclear is exactly how long she has been compromised. If you base it on the book, she has been working for the Organization for quite some time before we even meet her....And I suppose it wouldn't be such a bad thing for an organization that finances terrorism to have a mole working for the government treasury, would it?

[Stylo]

What remains unclear is exactly how long she has been compromised. If you base it on the book, she has been working for the Organization for quite some time before we even meet her....And I suppose it wouldn't be such a bad thing for an organization that finances terrorism to have a mole working for the government treasury, would it?

There's only so far you can base the film on the book; it's still essentially a stand-alone movie, even though it is going "back to the source".

If Mr. White's organization did have a mole at the treasury, it still doesn't explain how they would know ahead of time that their mole would get picked to accompany Bond to Montenegro to do this job. I've seen the film three times now and I'm not convinced that she was compromised before the mission began, I think they got to her sometime after the train trip.

[wendy54]

"If Mr. White's organization did have a mole at the treasury, it still doesn't explain how they would know ahead of time that their mole would get picked to accompany Bond to Montenegro to do this job. I've seen the film three times now and I'm not convinced that she was compromised before the mission began, I think they got to her sometime after the train trip."



True...I had thought of this also...but doesn't the book sort of suffer from the same problem? Even though in the book Vesper has been working for the Russians for some time, they would have had no way of knowing that she would be assigned with Bond to bankrupt Le Chiffre either would they?

[Gri007]

A qeury of mine is that is Bond a commander in this film. We see him earn his double 0 satutus, but there isn't dailoge about him being a commander. Would this be looked upon more in Bond 22??? I would have thought Vesper would have mentioned it on the train, whilst sizing him up.

[George Kaplan]

True...I had thought of this also...but doesn't the book sort of suffer from the same problem? Even though in the book Vesper has been working for the Russians for some time, they would have had no way of knowing that she would be assigned with Bond to bankrupt Le Chiffre either would they?

In the book

Spoiler

Vesper is the secretary of the man who came up with the plan to attack Le Chiffre at the gambling tables. That's why she ends up getting involved. In that scenario, I wouldn't think it would be too difficult for her to be forced by the Russians into maneuvering herself into being asked to help.

[wendy54]

Ahhh. Ok good to know