36 replies to this topic

[Dr. Tynan]

"Why don't they just shoot him? [James Bond]"

This was something another Bond fan said to me. What I think he meant was, he hated the way that a lot of the time the villains wasted a lot of time and energy trying to kill Bond in unusual ways.

He thought it would be so much easier and quicker if they just shot Bond.

I'm not gonna say where I stand on this, I want to know what you lot think.

[RossMan]

Another is in TSWLM, when Bond is speaking with Stromberg, when he and Anya leave, Stromberg says their real names and states "Wait until they get ashore and kill them", why not just kill them right there and then?! Or in FYEO, when Bond is on the ice rink and those thugs in hockey gear attack him, keeping Bond alive for no apparent reason in YOLT and OHMSS, there are quite a few of these instances. That's why Dr. Evil and his son debate about that in Austin Powers.

I don't really mind though, I never really think about it but whenever I have a Bond movie on and my dad's present (who absolutely loathes Bond) he'll frequently say "why don't they just kill him like they did with the other guy?" (he was referring to Luigi in FYEO

[James Bond 007]

Did you ever see the 'Scorpio' episode of the Simpsons with 'Mr Bund'? I loved that episode.

Ken

[ray t]

in psychology 101 back in university, the professor said that a Bond Villian is the ultimate egomaniac with a hidden (SEXUAL) inferiority complex, especially the homocidal paranoiac ones.

they ALL have an INTENSE NEED for an audience (especially bond) who can appreciate their (evil) genius and have an INTENES DESIRE to humiliate and mock the hero (bond) IN FRONT of the (bond) girl.

Merely shooting him would be an UNDERWHELMING and MOST UNSATISFYING means to accomplish an end, not to mention a DUMB way to treat a cash cow known as the JB007 film franchise.

[RossMan]

OO7Qbranch (18 Jan, 2002 04:35 a.m.):
The only time I said something was pointless was in the teaser of ohmss.  The enemy has bond with his hands up and a gun pointing at him.  He tells bond to lie in the boat..............what's that gonna help.

I forgot about that one. That seemed really useless. It could have been because they wanted the body out of sight from passing motorists or something but they could have just put him in there after they shot him.

[James Bond 007]

I never understood why they always treated Bond like an honoured guest, letting him walk around their mansion/underground facility, a cocktail in his hand, chatting away like old friends. You almost think that if this guy wasn't about to wipe out Washington DC or hold the known world to ransom or about to subject Bond to some tortourous death, they might have got on. Just a thought.

Ken

[Jim]

Call it silly if you must, but at least Moonraker acknowledged its own stupidity.

"You defy all my attempts to plan an amusing death for you".

A moment of self-realisation by the Bond films there.

The list of opportunities to shoot Bond is massive. It all comes down to the taxi driver in Kingston. There they are, the three blind mice, Bond in their sights as they line up the shot. Along comes the taxi, puts them off.

This means they have to resort to spiders and villains haven't looked back since.

James Bond's survival has relied on the actions of that one individual. There's a theory that the original Star Wars trilogy relied on the decison by a soldier on the Star Destroyer not to shoot down the escape pod carrrying those two robot chaps. This is largely the same. James Bond has survived because of a minicab in Jamaica.

Who was that mysterious taxi driver? It's all his fault. That scene with Kaufmann in TND; I half expected a taxi to come crashing through the walls. Given the rest of the film, this is not an entirely stupid thought.

[White Persian]

Mr Big had the right idea.
"Take this honky out and waste him".

It was only when he reverted to being Dr Kananga that he started fartarsing about marooning Bond on crocodile surrounded islands. Or was that Tee Hee's fault. It was pretty remiss of him to just wander off and leave Bond there.

[OO7Qbranch]

The only time I said something was pointless was in the teaser of ohmss. The enemy has bond with his hands up and a gun pointing at him. He tells bond to lie in the boat..............what's that gonna help.

[RossMan]

What bothers me the most is in The Spy Who Loved Me.

After Bond meets with Stromberg. Stromberg says "Wait until they get to shore then kill them." Why wait? Because of that Stromberg lost a lot of his men in the car, helicopter, motorcycle, and underwater attack. Why not kill them right there on Atlantis or blow their boat up as they return to land, like he did with professors in the helicopter earler since he knows who Bond and Any really are?! They wanted to do those action scenes and chases so why not have Stromberg figure out who they really are AFTER they get to land, making more sense for the car, helicopter, and motorcycle to be there.

This has to be the worst (best) example of the villain needlessly not just shooting Bond.

[Jim]

Ok, it is a stupid thought, but I stand by the taxi driver theory. Villains will quake when they have Bond in their sights, just in case a mincab hurtles into view. It's a psychological thing. it's much less mental torture to shove the chap in a centrifuge or drown him in a Rolls Royce or inflict Tanya Roberts on him.

[Blofeld's Cat]

'Why don't they just shoot him?"

Because Bond has get into a position in which the villain can say to him:

"I might as well tell you my diabolical plan, as you won't live long enough to be able to stop it".

[Simon]

Jim (18 Jan, 2002 08:10 a.m.):
Call it silly if you must, but at least Moonraker acknowledged its own stupidity.

"You defy all my attempts to plan an amusing death for you".

A moment of self-realisation by the Bond films there.

In that film, it worked both ways though. Rog knew Drax was the evil chap for this outing at the time he popped the sniper out of the trees during the pheasant hunting. From that moment, life be damned, he always had the little gimmick that should have been in the stores for Christmas, which could have been used to end it there. Drax didn't have any 2IC intellect so Jim could have sent him on his way to the after life, at the latest, when he was in the place where he could be assured of warmth.

No Drax, no second in command, Jaws gets it on with Blondy and flattens her, everyone else goes back to their day job, queue music and end credits.

But then the film is only 1hr 30mins. Which is why they don't just shoot him. Or anyone come to that.

The only other way to do it is to not have Bond meeting the villains until we are 3/4 of the way through the flick, whereupon a fight can ensue.

[Dr. Tynan]

Jim (18 Jan, 2002 01:44 p.m.):
The list of opportunities to shoot Bond is massive.

You're probably right there Jim. Bond villains do waste their opportunities to kill him. Doesn't Helga Brandt say to Mr Osato "You should have killed him yourself, you had plenty of opportunity"??

[Tedley King]

WHAT ABOUT...

i an enemy realised this and killed Bond at the end of the film and as we see in some films, people's lives flash before them, this could happen with Bond, see parts from all the Bond films. Then in the next Bond film (next Bond film I hear you say? But Bond's dead!) Well, one of two things can happen...

1) Bond had a wife in MI:6 and so it becomes Jane/Jenny (etc) Bond...like people have suggested, a female Bond...she gets revenge and the series carries on with a female Bond?

2) One of Bond's many bastards (illigitimate child), as I'm sure he must have some, if not one, decides to get revenge, he then gets brought into MI:6 to take over '007'...he was secretly being trained by MI:6, without Bond knowing he was his son (sod a daughter) and in the mission where Bond dies, Bond was tutoring 'Bond' Jnr before he go killed, Bond Jnr then takes his # and gets revenge!? The series carries on with a young Bond, until he reaches 35 where it contnues to carry on as it is now?!

[Dr. Tynan]

Goldthumb (edited) (19 Jan, 2002 11:53 a.m.):
He's the hero, that's why!

I understand what you mean. That's something I would think myself (hope that doesn't look arrogant).

I actually like the way the baddies try to kill Bond in unusual ways.

Though having said that, in FYEO, Kristatos had plenty of opportunity to kill Bond on board Melina Havelock's boat "The Triana" (isn't that how it's spelt?). He could have told both Kriegler and Apostis to pump him full of bullets right there and then (they BOTH had guns).

[Mister Asterix]

James Bond 007 (01 Apr, 2002 04:45 p.m.):
I never understood why they always treated Bond like an honoured guest, letting him walk around their mansion/underground facility, a cocktail in his hand, chatting away like old friends. You almost think that if this guy wasn't about to wipe out Washington DC or hold the known world to ransom or about to subject Bond to some tortourous death, they might have got on. Just a thought.

Ken

It's all ego. The Villain, who has wisely surrounded himself with lackeys and hench that are not his intellectual equal, sees Bond as someone who--though an enemy--could fully appreciate his genius. The Villian figures that if they are civilized to our man James that he would reciprocate with praise to the villain's brilliant plan. You know the rest.

[Parasyte]

How to make a Bond film: The half-arsed method.

-have him dodging bullets, have no end fight, or any elaborate scenes to show off an OTT, larger than life hereo. While your at it, give him a nagging wife and a pair of fluffy slippers, just to ruin the film completly.

-Without the OTT death traps (to make the villain look all the more evil) Bond would just be running around popping the odd henchmanm. Also, it seperates them from other gun-running films like Die Hard. While good, not spectacular, and certainly not as fun. Bond is a straight film, with odd quips thrown in for good luck, and the OTT bits round off a good family film.


Bond seperates itself from the rest of the film world by having daft elements (Roger Moores eyebrow being a not-so-good one). Imagine Xmas without a Bond!!

[Dr. Tynan]

Dr. Tynan (18 Jan, 2002 02:22 a.m.):
I'm not gonna say where I stand on this, I want to know what you lot think.

I should correct that, I'm not going to say where I stand on this.....NOW. I'll wait a while.

[General Koskov]

RossMan (03 Apr, 2002 02:16 a.m.):
After Bond meets with Stromberg, Stromberg says, 'Wait until they get to shore then kill them.'

This has to be the worst (best) example of the villain needlessly not just shooting Bond.

I wholeheartedly agree. Much better is the 'You missed, Mr Bond.', 'Oh? Did I?' in Moonraker

[Icephoenix]

Just another in TMWTGG, I know Scaramanga wanted to kill bond (later), but y put him in the Karate school?
"Why don't they just shoot him?"

[Goldthumb]

He's the hero, that's why! But, you have a point....for evil geniuses, Bond's enemeis are morons....

Grant had all the time in the world to blow Bond's face off in FRWL, but he spouted some crap I can't remember...some speech and he even tried to get James to kiss his foot. Does anyone recall what the blazes Grant was talking about and what importance (if any) it had to the plot?

In YOLT, Blofeld could have shot Osato, THEN Bond. I still never got why he said "This is the price of failure" and blew Osato away....what was the point of showing Bond that he kills his own men? Memo to Blofeld: Bond probably already knows since he never faces the same man twice after they run home crying to you.

In Moonraker (think, anyway), Bond had what I think is his closest brush with death ever, when Jaws threw him out of the plane. If not for the fact there was another henchman to snatch a parachute from who'd already dove out, Bond would've been doomed.

[General Koskov]

I call it the 'Blofeld's Cat Complex', okay...maybe I don't and just made that line up because it sounded funny. Either way, I firmly believe Blofeld's white cat personified the thinking of all villains:

Cats rarely just go and kill a bird or a squirrel. They catch it, hold it prisoner, and see if it will try to escape. If it attempts to, they try to recapture it. Then it might escape for good...or at least until another day.

This is how Bond villains react to Bond's interference. They send out thugs to get him, see that he is extremely competent at defence and admire this.

Of course it eventually causes their demise, but I have to admit that I would do the same, in the place of a villain, and keep Bond alive as long as possible--just keeping him inches away from, as Drax put it, an 'amusing death'.
Wouldn't everyone? rm2

PS. Keep in mind that Scaramanga tried to shoot him...and we ended up with a silly 'funhouse' sequence; much better results when you lock him up in a wheel-house, or close the shutters in a shark pool. Ahh, satisfying! ;D

[Xenobia]

I think the easiest and simplest answer to this very important question is thus:

Because the director told them not to!



-- Xenobia

[Victor Zokas]

Doesn't this "Why don't they just shoot him?" situation come up in all action movies?? The hero always is give one chance to many to escape than they might reasonably expect.

The answer is simple. Either they would have to face less tricky situations, making the move somewhat less exciting, or the hero would get shot. This would bring the movie, or in 007's case the series, to a premature ending. Surely nobody really expects that to happen. You are expected to susend your disbelief.

That said i think it was a valid point for Austin Powers to make fun of, and one of the better jokes in those movies.

[OO7Qbranch]

I will place him in an easily escapable situation involving over elaborate means of death.

Dad, if you have a time machine why don't you just go back when austin powers is sittin on the crapper and blow his brains out.
- How bout no....Scott.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Agree with all the points, here, but let's take a slightly different approach shall we.

Like all heroes, James Bond is a pest. But he is the ultimate pest. He is a fly on the wall. He is the unsolicited salesman.

He cannot be rid of, nor can he be intimidated. He operates within a personal sphere of confidence; he does not die upon request.

In doing so, Bond becomes the most frustrating and irritating person to ever collide with the villain's domain.
"The man just won't take a hint."

It follows therefore, that in devising the most elaborate, deliciously OTT method of killing Bond, that this is an act of release for the villain as much as it is fuel for his/her's ego. Thus, the act of killing Bond in fantastic fashion is a means of intellectual, physical and sexual release for the villain. The gravy. The creme de glace. The cherry on the top. The ultimate "swat", pull-off-the-wings-of-the-fly before swatting with joyous ferocity.

It's Freud.

I know what you're saying - but it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned Freud in here.

[zencat]

It's because Bond villains are egomaniacs and master sadists who MUST make a masterpiece of Bond's death in order to feel the twisted high that drives them to be villains. Shooting Bond is just a means to an end, and Bond villains are far from pragmatic. Bond villains love the ACT of evil and can't resist wielding and displaying their evil power over a stud like Bond. It makes them feel powerful and sexual. Why do you think they frequently need the Bond girl to watch? Of course, that's their mistake, the flaw in their makeup, and usually results in their downfall.

Either that or it just never occurs to them.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Can you give us an example, Doc?

[Dr. Tynan]

I think my friend means things like trailing Bond through the water to get eaten by sharks, putting him into a pipeline, putting him in a room where he will get engulfed by the flames of a rocket's engine. Guns where present in all these situations. My friend feels it would have been so much easier and quicker for them, if they just shot Bond.

I can't remember anymore examples off hand. Perhaps it doesn't happen as much as my friend and I think.

I actually disagree with my friend, I love the weird and wonderful ways the villains try to kill Bond.