Sean 'Hero' Connery and James Bond contenders Why does Hollywood offer us buffed up guy-candy when what we need are grownup gladiators?
Trust Orlando Bloom enough to crusade for him?
Pass.
Follow Brad Pitt into battle?
No, thanks.
As seen in recent historical epics such as "Kingdom
#2
Stephenson
Posted 09 May 2005 - 07:26 PM
I really loved that article (except for the part about the kilt and Damon in the Bourne films). Sums up all the problems with so many "epics" being released today. Hell, Pitt, Depp and Cruise have all crossed the 40's threshold, but I still have problems believing they could command a school crossing, let alone an army. I agree completely that it is a result of the times we live in; if Connery were 32 today I have to wonder if he could even get an audition if the competition was the cast from the OC.
Wonder who would be cast if they were making "A Bridge to Far" or "The Guns of Navarone" today....
Edited by Stephenson (canoe2), 09 May 2005 - 07:28 PM.
#3
Mr. Somerset
Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:02 PM
Sean is the man!
#4
Qwerty
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Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:28 PM
"So don't die, Russell Crowe
#5
Stephenson
Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:48 PM
[quote name='Qwerty' date='9 May 2005 - 14:28']"So don't die, Russell Crowe
#6
Skudor
Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:54 PM
Hear hear! Connery is the man! 
#7
Pussycat
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Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:58 PM
Love Connery!
Dare I say it again? Of course...not all the guys out there look like they couldn't handle the rough stuff.
Adrian Paul can more than handle it and charm the ladies at the same time!
He comes closer to Connery than all of those listed and it's not because there is a resemblance in the face. He has the "other" characteristics that made Connery the sexy, dangerous Bond on film.
#8
Taro Todoroki
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:15 AM
It's good to see Sean getting the credit he deserves.
#9
Atticus17F
Posted 10 May 2005 - 04:41 AM
Good article. Brosnan's in the same camp as Farrell and Pitt. Likes to act hard, but that's as far as it goes.
#10
Tarl_Cabot
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 04:55 AM
Good stuff there QWERTY. 
But I like Matt Damon as Jason Bourne( !  ) precisely because he isn't 6'2 and burly, with a 'Sargent Rock' machismo appearence. He's very unassuming, and that makes him an ideal CIA assassin/officer/spy...etc.He's doesn't exude menace; he just kicks the crap outta anyone who gets in his way...As for Pitt, Cruise...I'm no apologist for them-they're all in little league compared to Connery.
Too bad about Owen turning down Bond, if that's true. 
#11
David Schofield
Posted 10 May 2005 - 09:19 AM
I'm sorry, Sean Connery is NOT the hero for the ages. He is an ageing Scotsman with a dubious attitude who has made a collection of extremely poor movies.
James Bond, whoever he is played by, is the icon that is the hero for all ages.
Edited by David Schofield, 10 May 2005 - 09:19 AM.
#12
Skudor
Posted 10 May 2005 - 10:01 AM
I'm sorry, Sean Connery is NOT the hero for the ages. He is an ageing Scotsman with a dubious attitude who has made a collection of extremely poor movies.
James Bond, whoever he is played by, is the icon that is the hero for all ages.
Very valid point, on James Bond. I think Connery can take some of the icon cred too, though.
#13
David Schofield
Posted 10 May 2005 - 10:12 AM
I'm sorry, Sean Connery is NOT the hero for the ages. He is an ageing Scotsman with a dubious attitude who has made a collection of extremely poor movies.
James Bond, whoever he is played by, is the icon that is the hero for all ages.
Very valid point, on James Bond. I think Connery can take some of the icon cred too, though.
Sure, in that Connery created the visual, moving image of Bond (from the information provied by Fleming) However, this is Connery as BOND, not Connery as Connery. The media always forget that. Bond is the icon, Connery the ageing actor with a lot of very poor roles.
#14
007 Agent
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 10:37 AM
I think it cuts both ways. I think Bond can be played by a more pretty boy actor like Brosnan or a more masculine actor like Connery. I think that's the magic of Bond - he can be played in different ways. It comes down to the interpretation and how successful it is. Perhaps the ideal next Bond is a pretty boy Bond who has Connery's toughness. If anyone knows of such an actor inform Eon.
#15
Daltonfan
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 11:09 AM
[quote name='Stephenson (canoe2)' date='9 May 2005 - 21:48'][quote name='Qwerty' date='9 May 2005 - 14:28']"So don't die, Russell Crowe
#16
spynovelfan
Posted 10 May 2005 - 11:10 AM
A hairy chest's not enough to balance a reputations for less manly traits like bullying and tantrums.
Are you talking about Connery or Crowe, or both?
#17
cvheady007
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 11:40 AM
I wanted my 75th post on this board to be in this thread to celebrate everyone's favorite 75-year old: Connery is always going to be an icon for men everywhere to emulate and women to fawn over. Not only was he the original and best James Bond, but he is a terrific actor and can pull off any line and any role. Sure, as the article alludes to, he has been in some stinkers, but, who hasn't? He's still got it, and here's one poster who is infinitely glad he's back as Bond for EA's From Russia With Love.
#18
Daltonfan
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 11:44 AM
Are you talking about Connery or Crowe, or both?
Crowe. I can't remember Connery's reputation.
#19
spynovelfan
Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:02 PM
Are you talking about Connery or Crowe, or both?
Crowe. I can't remember Connery's reputation.
Worse than Crowe's! Connery is widely seen as being a bully and a grouch - and a lot worse by feminists. He has said in several interviews that he thinks hitting women is okay in certain circumstances, and not all those interviews were in the Sixties. His ex-wife has alleged he hit her. And so on. I'm not sure whether in real life Connery is the best example of a 'manly man who can keep his cool under pressure'. People will probably flame me for pointing out Connery's reputation - that's because we all want him to be James Bond, and the idea of a real-life misogynist isn't as appealing as an on-screen one.
#20
007 Agent
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:09 PM
Perhaps you have to be one in real-life to be a credible one on-screen?
#21
Skudor
Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:11 PM
A hairy chest's not enough to balance a reputations for less manly traits like bullying and tantrums.
Are you talking about Connery or Crowe, or both?
Perhaps a hairy chest is synonymous with Diva behaviour... 
#22
Daltonfan
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:13 PM
Thanks, spynovelfan. I think I may have seen something about that and forgotten.
I think I'll discount the whole article as obviously I have a different idea of what makes a hero.
Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:58 PM
Are you talking about Connery or Crowe, or both?
Crowe. I can't remember Connery's reputation.
Worse than Crowe's! Connery is widely seen as being a bully and a grouch - and a lot worse by feminists. He has said in several interviews that he thinks hitting women is okay in certain circumstances, and not all those interviews were in the Sixties. His ex-wife has alleged he hit her. And so on. I'm not sure whether in real life Connery is the best example of a 'manly man who can keep his cool under pressure'.
People will probably flame me for pointing out Connery's reputation - that's because we all want him to be James Bond, and the idea of a real-life misogynist isn't as appealing as an on-screen one.
Here we go with this old chestnut again.  Show me the "several interviews" that he advocates hitting women in. Nobody even remembered this until Barbara Walters brought it up and sort of cornered him in a prime time interview in the late '80s. And now that reputation has followed him even when what he said has been twisted by some people because it suits their purposes better. The man has been married twice, the second one for over 30 years. That's a pretty decent track record for somebody who is as huge a star as Connery is. Do you ever hear about anyone alleging affairs with him, hearing about him caught with drugs or in drunken rages or in financial scandals? And who cares what feminists think? This isn't the 1970s anymore. They needed a poster boy to rail against and chose Connery. Never mind the many positive things he's done, like helping the victims in Prague whose lives were destroyed by the floods when he was making League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or using his star status to start foundations for needy fellow Scots or helping start studios in Scotland to help the economy. Forget that many of his female costars have had nothing but positive things to say about him or how he treats the behind-the-scenes people on his films. He's sued many studios and has a reputation for that. But he came from a poverty-stricken background and doesn't forget that and feels entitled to every penny he earns. Connery can be a grump and a grouch, but take the bad with the good. He projects an image a lot of people would agree with, more for his screen persona and not necessarily his personal life. Why damn him for doing his job well when his private life, which isn't as scandalous as some want to make it, is a separate thing?
#24
spynovelfan
Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:40 PM
But I didn't damn him for doing his job well, did I? Or say he hadn't helped people in Prague or had been involved in financial scandals!
I merely pointed out what his reputation was, and it *is* for being a chauvinist, I'm afraid. But you asked me to show you these 'several interviews'. Okay. In a 1961 interview with The Daily Express, Connery said the following:
"I don't think there's anything wrong with hitting a woman. An open-handed slap is justifiable, or putting your hand over her mouth. I wouldn't think I was sadistic."
In 1991, Barbara Walters 'dragged up' the claim made by Connery's first wife Diane Cilento that he had 'bashed [her] face in with his fists' in a hotel room in Spain in 1965. Scottish newspapers also serialised an unauthorised biography of Connery by Geoffrey Wansell that described the incident:
'Connery hits her - not with the flat of his hand but with his fist full between the eyes. Another blow follows the first, then another, and another until Cilento falls back onto their bed, her face a bloody mess.'
One wonders why Connery didn't sue Wansell were it not true.
In 1993, Connery said the following in an interview with Zoe Heller in Vanity Fair:
"Barbara Walters was trying to get me to say it was OK to hit a woman. But I was really saying that to slap a woman was not the cruelest thing you can do to her. It's much more cruel to psychologically damage somebody. Sometimes, there are women who take it to the wire. That's what they're looking for, the ultimate confrontation. They want a smack."
But the most famous formulation of Connery's views on women was in his 1965 Playboy interview:
'PLAYBOY: How do you feel about roughing up a woman, as Bond sometimes has to do?
CONNERY: I don't think there is anything particularly wrong about hitting a woman - although I don't recommend doing it in the same way that you'd hit a man. An open handed slap is justified - if all other alternatives fail and there has been plenty of warning. If a woman is a bitch, or hysterical, or bloody-minded continually, then I'd do it. I think a man has to be slightly advanced, ahead of the woman. I really do - by virtue of the way a man is built, if nothing else. But I wouldn't call myself sadistic. I think one of the appeals that Bond has for women, however, is that he is decisive, cruel even. By their nature women aren't decisive - "Shall I wear this? Shall I wear that?" - and along comes a man who is absolutely sure of everything and he's a godsend. And, of course, Bond is never in love with a girl and that helps. He always does what he wants, and women like that. It explains why so many women are crazy about men who don't give a rap for them.'
You also asked: 'Do you ever hear about anyone alleging affairs with him?' Yes, as it happens. He's alleged to have had an extra-marital affair with Lyndsey de Paul, for starters.
Posted 10 May 2005 - 02:10 PM
But I didn't damn him for doing his job well, did I? Or say he hadn't helped people in Prague or had been involved in financial scandals!
I merely pointed out what his reputation was, and it *is* for being a chauvinist, I'm afraid. But you asked me to show you these 'several interviews'. Okay. In a 1961 interview with The Daily Express, Connery said the following:
"I don't think there's anything wrong with hitting a woman. An open-handed slap is justifiable, or putting your hand over her mouth. I wouldn't think I was sadistic."
In 1991, Barbara Walters 'dragged up' the claim made by Connery's first wife Diane Cilento that he had 'bashed [her] face in with his fists' in a hotel room in Spain in 1965. The incident was detailed in Geoffrey Wansells' biography of Connery:
'Connery hits her - not with the flat of his hand but with his fist full between the eyes. Another blow follows the first, then another, and another until Cilento falls back onto their bed, her face a bloody mess.'
In 1993, Connery said the following in an interview with Zoe Heller in Vanity Fair:
"Barbara Walters was trying to get me to say it was OK to hit a woman. But I was really saying that to slap a woman was not the cruelest thing you can do to her. It's much more cruel to psychologically damage somebody. Sometimes, there are women who take it to the wire. That's what they're looking for, the ultimate confrontation. They want a smack."
But the most famous formulation of Connery's views on women was in his 1965 Playboy interview:
'PLAYBOY: How do you feel about roughing up a woman, as Bond sometimes has to do?
CONNERY: I don't think there is anything particularly wrong about hitting a woman - although I don't recommend doing it in the same way that you'd hit a man. An open handed slap is justified - if all other alternatives fail and there has been plenty of warning. If a woman is a bitch, or hysterical, or bloody-minded continually, then I'd do it. I think a man has to be slightly advanced, ahead of the woman. I really do - by virtue of the way a man is built, if nothing else. But I wouldn't call myself sadistic. I think one of the appeals that Bond has for women, however, is that he is decisive, cruel even. By their nature women aren't decisive - "Shall I wear this? Shall I wear that?" - and along comes a man who is absolutely sure of everything and he's a godsend. And, of course, Bond is never in love with a girl and that helps. He always does what he wants, and women like that. It explains why so many women are crazy about men who don't give a rap for them.'
You also asked: 'Do you ever hear about anyone alleging affairs with him?' Yes, as it happens. He's alleged to have had extra-marital affairs with Lyndsey de Paul and Helle Byrne.
Fair enough on the other interviews, although my ultimate point was most of these things were alleged and he's tied with the reputation of being this abusive person and does that make it right? I've heard that Diane Cilento had some problems of her own, so who knows what happened behind closed doors. So he shared a view that was probably pretty common at the time. Does that mean he still goes around advocating such views today? He spends more time trying to live down a reputation the press blew out of proportion to peddle their product rather than the truth. What's worse? Singer James Brown is a notorious wife beater as is former NFL star Jim Brown and several other celebraties. I don't see them being constantly dogged by the press the way Connery is. As far as his alegged extra-marital affairs, since I've never heard of either of those women, maybe it was them trying to make a name for themselves. People want to take Connery to task for this when Roger Moore left his wife of 30 some years in the 1990s for another woman. I don't see anybody bashing his reputation. It's funny one guy gets damned it because he has a reputation and not another.
#26
007 Agent
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 02:22 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Connery said those negative comments about women just to make him seem more Bond-like. I doubt he's much like Bond in real life. Worth noticing how he made the infamous slapping women comments in 1965 - which just happened to be the height of Bond-mania.
Edited by 007 Agent, 10 May 2005 - 02:27 PM.
#27
spynovelfan
Posted 10 May 2005 - 02:27 PM
So it's okay for him to be unfaithful if it's with *famous* women?
It's okay for him to advocate hitting women if it was in 1965? Although he also did it in 1991 and 1993. Guess that's also dragging up this 'old chestnut', an interview 12 years ago, is that ancient history, too?
It's okay for him to advocate hitting women because James Brown does?
Come on. I agree there's no proof of what happened between him and Cilento, but you asked me for the several interviews and I gave you four. They range from 1961 to 1993, and in every one he advocated hitting women. This isn't about whether or not the press dogs him - and they also lionise him. It was in response to Daltonfan's post about Russell Crowe. Connery has advocated hitting women in at least four interviews over the years. Justify it if you like, try to distract from it by bringing in random crap like how nice he has been to Czech orphans - it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
#28
spynovelfan
Posted 10 May 2005 - 02:29 PM
Worth noticing how he made the infamous slapping women comments in 1965 - which just happened to be the height of Bond-mania.
And 1961, and 1991, and 1993.
#29
Skudor
Posted 10 May 2005 - 02:38 PM
Clearly he's not advocating using violence against women, he's justifying why it might not be as wrong as other people think. Although violence should be condemned in any situation, bar necessary self defence, I think there's a world of difference between advocating the use of violence and justifying it. I can't see how any reasonable individual would hit their spouse (be it husband to wife or vice versa) frequently with a fist right between the eyes, but I'm not Sean Connery - I don't have his background and I wasn't there. It seems pretty severe - but it doesn't sound like he was a serial abuser like some men who regularly and frequently beat their wifes and/or children.
Posted 10 May 2005 - 02:40 PM
So it's okay for him to be unfaithful if it's with *famous* women?
It's okay for him to advocate hitting women if it was in 1965? Although he also did it in 1991 and 1993. Guess that's also dragging up this 'old chestnut', an interview 12 years ago, is that ancient history, too?
It's okay for him to advocate hitting women because James Brown does?
Come on. I agree there's no proof of what happened between him and Cilento, but you asked me for the several interviews and I gave you four. They range from 1961 to 1993, and in every one he advocated hitting women. This isn't about whether or not the press dogs him - and they also lionise him. It was in response to Daltonfan's post about Russell Crowe. Connery has advocated hitting women in at least four interviews over the years. Justify it if you like, try to distract from it by bringing in random crap like how nice he has been to Czech orphans - it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
It's your view and you're welcome to it but why try to make it something else(ie the James Brown comment or the unfaithful comment). Maybe we read it different ways, but the '91 and '93 interviews seem to be Connery defending himself on somebody trying to be sensationalistic, a common thing to do in today's press. I'm saying don't paint the man for something he said and maybe never did just because the press tells you so it's so, which you seem to have bought into.
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