63 replies to this topic

[YOLT]

Of course I am going for TND, the last great Bond film. The first half is great, the second half could have been great but its Ok atleast for me. Bond is really a spy in this one, also Arnolds music is great. The only failure is the 5 min rambo style at the end.

DAD was fine for me until the last 20mins, until 007 saved Jinx. But the last 20 mins or so is really bad. I even liked the Iceland scenes. But I hate to see Bond in commando clothes.

[Skudor]

I

[Qwerty]

Tomorrow Never Dies all the way.

[Jamie007]

Die Another Day, definately. Though it was deeply flawed, I think Tomorrow Never Dies is one of the worst Bond movies.

Villains: This is a tie. Elliot Carver was an awful and hammy villain and his henchman Stamper was just boring. But TND also has Dr Kaufman, one of the best villains in the series.
Gustav Graves was a boring villain, but Zao was great and Miranda Frost was hot.

Bond Girls: Another tie. Both Bond girls in TND were bland and nothing special. DAD had the beautiful Miranda Frost, but it also has Jinx, the worst Bond girl EVER.

Story - Another tie. Both have fairly ludicrous stories.

Settings: DAD is the clear winner here. It has some terrific settings - North Korea, Cuba and Iceland. TND's setting were pretty bland in comparison.

Action sequences: Again DAD is the clear winner. The action sequences in TND were just overlong and boring. DAD had the swordfight, the car chase over the ice, the hovercrafts and the collapsing ice palace.

Climax: TND is the winner here. Although the climaxes to both movies were weak, DAD's climax was beyond terrible with the horrible CGI plane crash. The stealth boat sequence was better.

Overall winner: DAD

Though the last 20 minutes of DAD was rubbish, the rest of the movie was great. TND just has a cheap and rushed feel throughout.

[IndyB007]

Hands down...
Tomorrow Never Dies

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

TND is the worst bond film ever made for me.
As Loomis has previously stated, DAD is easily the best Bond since LTK.
This one goes to DAD for me.

TND was outdated by the time it first hit theatre screens.
It's action scenes are boring and Carver is a wasted opportunity at a true great Bond villain.

[Kingdom Come]

Dad gets my vote. Infact, I could barely compare the two. TND is an almost empty Bond film. Coming after GE it seems even more so.

[Mr. Somerset]

I've looked at DAD as the worst Bond film ever made. However, it's grown on me to the extent that I may pick it over TND. Nah, it's a tie. They both have weak titles, dreadful endings, yet also contain pretty good Arnold scores. DAD gets 10 extra points for the more traditional gunbarrel music but loses them immediately thanks to the CGI bullet. TND has the better theme song, though Surrender tops it by a mile.
As for the villains: Carver, (just).
Bond girls: I'm appreciating Jinx these days, though Wai Lin was quite cool. Another tie.
Pierce: I'll give it to DAD as he gave a better performance IMO.

[JimmyBond]

I love TND, but I'm going to choose DAD. DAD has the better villian (I think Graves is one of the best villians since Blofeld) and is just all around a fun Bond film. That's not to say TND isnt, but DAD has more interesing locales, memorable scenes, and so forth.

[Qwerty]

Of course I am going for TND, the last great Bond film.

So far it's been the last "favorite" for me. I'm hoping Casino Royale changes that.

[00Twelve]

This is a little bit hard...

I believe that I'll still have to pick DAD. If you look at the plot idea outside of the specific script, it has a lot of great things. The script itself would not give me trouble if it wasn't for the horrible part of Jinx. I used to bag on Halle Berry, but now I have even more sympathy for her when she does anything she can with those lines. Oy.

Miranda Frost is every bit as bad, if not worse. Every time I see her describing Bond and she actually says "He'll light the fuse on any explosive situation...etc." UUUUGH!! She serves to fake the viewer out by acting all exasperated with Bond as a risk-taker, and then she *dramatically* changes sides.

All of this aside, the story is just more appealing to me and I might be biased because I have wanted a story based on Moonraker for years (Another reason why I love GoldenEye). There are also more original concepts, such as Bond being captured and tortured at length, the Blades sequence, and (in theory) the location of the Ice Palace. TND is YOLT, TSWLM, and MR all over again.

Although I swore off Bruce Fierstein long ago, later found I would kill to have him replace P&W. I admit, TND's script has slightly less cheesy dialogue and cheap laughs (except Bond saying "filthy habit"...He smokes 70 cigs a day in Fleming.) but never quite comes up to the level of atmosphere. DAD just used its locations extremely well and took more risks with Bond's character. I do have more and more respect for TND every time I watch it, but while the new angle is neat, the story is just too rehashed to me.

I realize this doesn't provide a clear choice for which one I like (or dislike) more, but long story short (TOO LATE!!!), it's DAD.

Edited by 00Twelve, 05 April 2005 - 08:36 PM.

[Quartermaster007]

I think both movies were crap. But TND was the less stinky crap. DAD had Brosnan in it, he was old. Bad Bond girl, villains, henchman, plots, and action. TND at least had a good villain, and Bond girl.

[trumanlodge89]

TND. easily. its very underrated in my opinion.

[YOLT]

Of course I am going for TND, the last great Bond film.

So far it's been the last "favorite" for me. I'm hoping Casino Royale changes that.

We will see. I just hope for another "spy flick" than personal stories; which TND is.

[Almadjian]

Using Jamie's template:

Villains: TND DAD

Bond Girls: TND . DAD

Story - TND DAD:

Settings: TND DAD

Action sequences: TND DAD

Climax: TND DAD

Overall winner: DAD

[Scottlee]

Tomorow Never Dies wipes the floor with DAD.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Villains: TND DAD

Bond Girls: TND . DAD

Story - TND DAD:

Settings: TND DAD

Action sequences: TND DAD

Climax: TND DAD

Overall winner: TND

[hrabb04]

I absolutely love Tomorrow Never Dies. It's the second best version of You Only Live Twice they have done.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I watch Die Another Day more than Tomorrow Never Dies.

Whenever I think of things that happen in a Bond movie Tomorrow Never Dies tends to be filtered out subconsciously for some reason.

[Harmsway]

Script - TND wins over DAD purely through dialogue. TND's plot may be stupid, but if you turn your brain off, you can stand it. DAD's plot had the potential to be intelligent, but just ends up an unsalvagable mess which is worse than dumb fun. WINNER: TND

Villains - Graves, Zao, Frost and Carver, Stamper, Kaufmann are both in a tight match for some stupid groups of villains. Frost and Kaufmann are the only two acceptable villains from each, and I'm going to go with the more interesting Kaufmann. Frost was just fairly boring - sure she was mean, but she never did anything more with the role. WINNER: TND

Bond Girls - Hmm. Paris and Wai Lin versus Frost and Jinx. Well, TND may have the rather inept Paris, but Wai Lin takes the cake, beating both Frost and Jinx hands down. WINNER: TND

Locations - DAD gets this one - beautiful locations, even if they were used poorly. WINNER: DAD

Action - I always like the action of TND since it seemed to contain some genuinely Bondian stuff without crossing the line into utter stupidity and ridiculousness, like DAD does. I love TND's PTS, bike chase, and car chase. The only fight I sort of like in DAD is the swordfight. WINNER: TND

Climax - Both are relatively poor, but at least Carver doesn't have an utterly, incredibly, stupendously stupid robo-suit (and the moment where Bond turns the rocket launchers on the boat itself is a fun one). WINNER: TND

Overall: TND - weak, yes, but it still manages to be fun. DAD is just cringe-worthy.

[Licensed Troubleshooter]

For me, TND is the best of the Brosnan movies. I remember seeing it three times at the theater, each time leaving with a smile on my face and thinking, "Now, THAT is a heck of a good movie!" Yes, it's YOLT, TSWLM, and MR all over again, but it's just so much fun. The scene with Q at the airport, the parking garage chase, Dr. Kaufmann, and the printing press fight ("They'll print anything these days") are all classic scenes. I love to see Bond grinning while he's laying on the floor of the car with the remote control; he's just an adolescent boy in a grown man's body, just like Connery in his really great outings.

DAD makes me cringe, with lines like, "Read this, BITCH!!!!" and "Your Mama!" Come on, these are Bond movies! Didn't there use to be a slightly higher standard for dialogue? "Come see the rising of your son?" I remember better dialogue in episodes of Ducktales growing up. Not to mention the fake, fake, fake computer animation!!

[tdalton]

Tomorrow Never Dies barely beats out Die Another Day between the two films. Tomorrow Never Dies was just mediocre the whole way through, whereas Die Another Day started out great and then crashed and burned down the home stretch. TND at the end, barely, because of its consistency in being mediocre.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I saw the last 3rd of DAD today at my friend's house. I hadn't seen it since it debuted on DVD nearly 2 years ago and just once in theaters before that. I often wonder if I over reacted and abused the film with overly harsh criticism. Sometimes I see a film again I think sucks and I find I like it better...Anyway, I still think it's amazingly awful. Nothing changed for me. I did forget how bad Brosnan lookes in it. Whoever wants him back must really want to relive the late Roger Moore era. I didn't see the first 45 minutes again though, which were pretty damn good. Sigh. I really like TND. I think it's the most fun Brosnan Bond by far.

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

DAD makes me cringe, with lines like, "Read this, BITCH!!!!" and "Your Mama!"  Come on, these are Bond movies!  Didn't there use to be a slightly higher standard for dialogue?

As if TND isn't (likewise) absolutely rife with ribald double entendres and groan-inducing quips?
For god's sake, man, HAVE YOU ACTUALLY EVEN SEEN THE MOVIE?

[Tanger]

Tomorrow Never Dies.

[JackLordIsFelix]

I think DAD is going to age better -- maybe it will capture that "Moonraker" mystique and become a cult favorite among Bond fans after years of contempt. I loved TND when it first came out (boldly proclaiming it one of the best, in fact) but I like it less with every subsequent viewing. It's an unfortunate quirk of many modern Bond films that they peter out before the climax, but TND seems particularly bad for this -- it's just a bloodbath (by Bond standards, anyway) for a bloodbath's sake and lacks the excitement of previous epic battles such as TSWLM and TB (yes -- I said TB). At least it's memorable compared to the non-event that was the end of TWINE, but then again that movie couldn't have got any worse by the end anyway.

If TND has one advantage over DAD, it's dialogue. Give me Bruce Feirstein over Purvis and Butt-Head any day .

Edited by JackLordIsFelix, 12 April 2005 - 03:56 AM.

[SeanValen00V]

Tomorrow Never Dies.

Brosnan is at least committed and trying in the on the stealth boat, and a few quotes and sayings to Carver that's not too bad, and Carver taking the mickey out of Wai Ling's kicks was a memorable moment towards the end. But in DAD he's a zombie after he saves Jinx in DAD.

Edited by SeanValen00V, 12 April 2005 - 02:51 PM.

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

I think DAD is going to age better -- maybe it will capture that "Moonraker" mystique and become a cult favorite among Bond fans after years of contempt. I loved TND when it first came out (boldly proclaiming it one of the best, in fact) but I like it less with every subsequent viewing. It's an unfortunate quirk of many modern Bond films that they peter out before the climax, but TND seems particularly bad for this -- it's just a bloodbath (by Bond standards, anyway) for a bloodbath's sake and lacks the excitement of previous epic battles such as TSWLM and TB (yes -- I said TB). At least it's memorable compared to the non-event that was the end of TWINE, but then again that movie couldn't have got any worse by the end anyway.

If TND has one advantage over DAD, it's dialogue. Give me Bruce Feirstein over Purvis and Butt-Head any day .

Hate to break it to you, but Feirstein, along with P & W is responsible for that movie of which you proclaim to be a "non-event" and "couldn't have gotten worse".
Yep.
Read the credits.
Feirstein tried his hand at TWINE's script and personally, I think his influence in certain scenes is fairly obvious.
Molly Warmflash anyone?

[YOLT]

I think DAD is going to age better -- maybe it will capture that "Moonraker" mystique and become a cult favorite among Bond fans after years of contempt. I loved TND when it first came out (boldly proclaiming it one of the best, in fact) but I like it less with every subsequent viewing. It's an unfortunate quirk of many modern Bond films that they peter out before the climax, but TND seems particularly bad for this -- it's just a bloodbath (by Bond standards, anyway) for a bloodbath's sake and lacks the excitement of previous epic battles such as TSWLM and TB (yes -- I said TB). At least it's memorable compared to the non-event that was the end of TWINE, but then again that movie couldn't have got any worse by the end anyway.

If TND has one advantage over DAD, it's dialogue. Give me Bruce Feirstein over Purvis and Butt-Head any day .

Hate to break it to you, but Feirstein, along with P & W is responsible for that movie of which you proclaim to be a "non-event" and "couldn't have gotten worse".
Yep.
Read the credits.
Feirstein tried his hand at TWINE's script and personally, I think his influence in certain scenes is fairly obvious.
Molly Warmflash anyone?

Whatever you say the majority prefers TND over DAD.

[Marquis]

TND is, for me at least, as close to Bond perfection as you can get..right until we get to the lacklustre final