33 replies to this topic

[00Nothing]

What are other fans thoughts of Moore's sixth Bond film, Octopussy. From some of the threads here, it appears some fans like the film, but I have also read a lot of negativity surrounding the film, while a lot of the Bond guides that I have read, mainly The Essential Bond, James Bond The Legacy and Guns, Martinis and Girls, appear to favour the film, especially compared to its rival film Never Say Never Again. To get the ball rolling I quite enjoy the film. Moore is starting to look quite old here, but at least the main Bond girl is not some young woman like Tanya Roberts. Maud Adams is a lovely Bond girl, as is Kristyna Wayborn (I think that's her name, you can correct me if I'm wrong), who gets the best double entendre in the film, while Q is great, not to mention the fact that he gets one of the best lines in Bond history. The plot is a nice mixture of fairy tale land, what with the baddie being an evil prince and all, and cold war thriller, in effect a joining together of the more fantastical Moore elements with the return to realism in FYEO. I quite like the film and think it does come close to an all time high for Moore.

What are other fans thoughts on the film.

[Turn]

The plot is a nice mixture of fairy tale land, what with the baddie being an evil prince and all, and cold war thriller, in effect a joining together of the more fantastical Moore elements with the return to realism in FYEO. I quite like the film and think it does come close to an all time high for Moore.

I think your lines sum up my feelings about OP.

It's this balance that makes it my personal favorite Moore film and one of my favorites in the series. It's the one where everything clicks for me. I saw it four times when it came out in '83.

[Loomis]

For me, OCTOPUSSY is one of the very worst James Bond films ever, possibly second only to THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH as the lamest flick of the entire bunch.

Still, at least there was a decent Bond movie in 1983 - NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN.

[Qwerty]

Gotta love Octopussy. Clearly a winner with many fans and a box-office success.

My third favorite Moore, and borderline in my overall top 5 of the series. Kamal, Gobinda, and Magda make a fantastic trio of villains, (even though Magda moves back and forth). Maud Adams clearly shines in her second performance as a Bond girl, and I think she had some of the very best chemistry with Moore, compared to the other leading ladies.

A superb plot, with a great score by Barry, sharp directing with the action and chase sequences.

Overall, a thoroughly enjoyable Bond film.

[RJJB]

I agree that Octopussy is one of the worst Bond movies.

Rather than enumerating the low points of the movie, I will name the stupidest scene in the movie. As Khan escapes with OP, Bond chases on horseback and grabs on to the plane as it takes off. No parachute. Sorry, but there is no way in hell that anyone in his right mind would do that. It was just plain dumb.

If that wasn't ridiculous enough, Khan then sends Gobinda out to fight with Bond.

[SnakeEyes]

There are its flaws (monkey suit, clown suit, ending, etc) but there is a wholesome, honest to god fun film in there too.

I enjoy it. It's not good, it's not bad, it's not even ugly. It's Moore Bond!

[Turn]

For me, OCTOPUSSY is one of the very worst James Bond films ever, possibly second only to THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH as the lamest flick of the entire bunch.

Still, at least there was a decent Bond movie in 1983 - NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN.

Loomis, I usually share several similar viewpoints as you, but we differ greatly on this one.

I'm curious as to why you dislike OP so much.

[Turn]

Rather than enumerating the low points of the movie, I will name the stupidest scene in the movie. As Khan escapes with OP, Bond chases on horseback and grabs on to the plane as it takes off. No parachute. Sorry, but there is no way in hell that anyone in his right mind would do that. It was just plain dumb.

If that wasn't ridiculous enough, Khan then sends Gobinda out to fight with Bond.

I don't find this scene any worse than the precredits of GE where Bond drives off a cliff and flies into a plane. That ruined what I thought up to that point was one of the best teasers in the entire series. At least the Moore films were supposed to be a lot less than serious, unlike GE, which is supposed to be a return to a more realistic Bond.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I like it despite being vastly inferior to the previous outing.

[freemo]

I love this film, probably my favourite non-Connery Bond film. It's much more lively and colourful than the dull and drab For Your Eyes Only, but retains the great action scenes (these two films contain the best action sequences of the series). Some great scenes here: 009s death, the auction. I love the backgammon scene between Bond and Kamal (has there been a Bond scene as good since?), "double sixes, fancy that" says Bond, without even looking down at the dice. "Spend the money quickly, Mr Bond". Roger Moore's firmly into his "smutty old playboy" years.

Goes for 10 minutes too long and has about four different endings, plus they should have made 009s death the pre-title scene (as much as I like jet one), but apart from that I won't fault it. Willing to let the silly gags slide. They threw everything into this one, probably with the intention of beating Never Say Never Again. I think they succeded.

[Qwerty]

I like it despite being vastly inferior to the previous outing.

I think they took the formula of For Your Eyes Only and just improved upon it by adding just a little bit more humor and not making it a total down to earth film, it's not too over the top at all, nor too down to earth, Octopussy has a fine balance of the elements. The locations and dialogue really are a lot of fun in this film.

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

I agree. There are a nice blend of humor and seriousness in this entertaining film. It's not better then For Your Eyes Only, but it's up there as one of my favorite Bond films. Good script, action and a vast performance by Roger Moore. One of his best scenes is when he argues over the bomb with General Orlov in the train, and when he dressed up as an clown to defuse the bomb. I felt Bond was more realistic in Octopussy. He didn't feel like an invincible secret agent in the film. He seemed like a ordinary person in some scenes. Remember the part where the teenagers pretended to give Bond a ride? Or when he had to wait for the lady on the phone? Or when the police thinks he's an enemy and chasing after him?

These are effective scenes.

[Qwerty]

Remember the part where the teenagers pretended to give Bond a ride? Or when he had to wait for the lady on the phone? Or when the police thinks he's an enemy and chasing after him?

These are effective scenes.

All attributed to some wonderful ideas that I believe Glen had a strong hand in creating for the film. Quite nice, the 'never-ending' finale, such like From Russia With Love's is very well done.

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

Octopussy's stunts are one of the greatest ever devised in a Bond film. I especially liked the scene where Bond, near the finale, slides on the railing and shoots Khan's bad guys! Bond at his best.

[Qwerty]

The one thing about this film that I think is very often overlooked and sometimes underated is the score and the title song. Rita Coolidge's ballad, I feel, is a rather good title song for a Bond film, yet it is very often spoken about compared to certain others. The score, while a bit 'quieter' for Barry, is still very successful and well crafted, such as the running main action cue, in such tracks as the Attack on the Monsoon Palace.

[Turn]

I felt Bond was more realistic in Octopussy. He didn't feel like an invincible secret agent in the film. He seemed like a ordinary person in some scenes. Remember the part where the teenagers pretended to give Bond a ride? Or when he had to wait for the lady on the phone? Or when the police thinks he's an enemy and chasing after him?

These are effective scenes.

Excellent points. I'm willing to overlook the Tarzan yells and clown and gorilla suit sillieness when you consider these scenes are in there as well. It really is a performance that requires a number of different emotions and actions for an actor when you think about it.

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

I agree. Roger did a great job at making more humane and also being his usual silly self in Octopussy.

[Qwerty]

I'm willing to overlook the Tarzan yells and clown and gorilla suit sillieness when you consider these scenes are in there as well. It really is a performance that requires a number of different emotions and actions for an actor when you think about it.

Exactly, I think if one dwells on all the negatives, it just makes the film less enjoyable, and I think the positives heavily outweigh any negatives in Octopussy.

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

I've always loved the Tarzan yell and Bond in a gorilla suit. Especially when Bond checked his watch when wearing the suit. Funny stuff.

[Four Aces]

I agree that Octopussy is one of the worst Bond movies...

How can you say that? In my experience even the worst Octopussy was pretty damned good!

4A

[Loomis]

For me, OCTOPUSSY is one of the very worst James Bond films ever, possibly second only to THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH as the lamest flick of the entire bunch.

Still, at least there was a decent Bond movie in 1983 - NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN.

Loomis, I usually share several similar viewpoints as you, but we differ greatly on this one.

I'm curious as to why you dislike OP so much.

The makers of OCTOPUSSY should have reached a firm decision, very early on in production, as to whether they wanted to make another MOONRAKER or another FOR YOUR EYES ONLY. The car crash that is OCTOPUSSY stands as an awful cautionary tale of what you get when you decide you want to make both MOONRAKER 2 and FOR YOUR EYES ONLY 2 at the same time.

Even by Bond movie standards, OCTOPUSSY suffers from horrific lapses in logic. For instance, how would Octopussy have known that 007 was the man who caught up with her father, Dexter Smythe, and gave him "an honourable alternative"? We know she wasn't present at the time, and it seems unlikely that her old man would have phoned her up and said: "Look, love, I'm afraid I'm on the way out. You see, there's this chap James Bond, some undercover fellow who goes by the alias 007, and he's rumbled me, and...." Indeed, since she wasn't there, how would Octopussy have known about the unspoken "honourable alternative" deal at all? And, actually, since when has committing suicide rather than facing the music for what one has done been "honourable"? It's a coward's way out, no?

And while we're on the subject, what the heck gave Bond the right to offer Smythe an alternative to capture and trial? Bond's job was to take him into custody so that he could face justice, full stop - no ifs or buts, and certainly no "honourable" ways out. Did Smythe bribe 007? Did he give him some of that stolen gold in return for being given 24 hours to clean up his affairs and the opportunity to be left alone with a revolver? I think we should be told.

Also, OCTOPUSSY may be the most racially offensive of all the Bond flicks, quite an "achievement" when one considers that the series also, uh, committed LIVE AND LET DIE. India gained independence in 1947. Why is this fact seemingly lost on the characters in OCTOPUSSY, Indian and British, who behave as though the British Raj is still in full swing? Why is Vijay so bloody deferential? How does Bond get away with remarks like "That'll keep you in curry for a few weeks"? Did Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, have a hand in the screenplay, I wonder?

Still, the embarrassments of OCTOPUSSY are legion: an elderly, leering Moore tromboning the zoom lens of a video camera into a woman's cleavage (yes, folks, this is supposed to be the sophisticated James Bond 007, one of the coolest men in the world); Bond making his escape as Indian peasants scrabble for the banknotes he has thrown at them; a snake charmer playing the James Bond Theme on his flute; Steven Berkoff giving perhaps the hammiest performance in the history of the series; Bond in a clown suit and gorilla costume; and some full-on Benny Hill antics with Q being molested by Octopussy's girls in a hot air balloon with a Union Jack design.

Even in technical/visual terms, OCTOPUSSY is loathsome. India is totally wasted as a location, and the cinematography is flat throughout, with muddy colours. Barry's score is easily his worst. The stunts and action scenes are.... well, "workmanlike" would probably be the kindest description.

It's not a total dead loss, though. Well, not quite. Suspense and scares are (grudgingly) introduced roughly an hour and a half in, with a race against the ticking clock of an atomic warhead, although John Glen's direction is so pedestrian that it doesn't really add up to very much.

Moore gives his most charming turn to date, although one would be forgiven for wondering whether Bond should really be charming and nothing but. Mind you, the beautiful and talented Maud Adams makes a welcome return to the series; and at least OCTOPUSSY isn't a pretentious slab of gloom and doom like THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH.

However, NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN won the Battle of the Bonds running away, with vastly superior performances, action, locations and wit. Good job Connery and McClory were around to show the world how James Bond ought to be done in 1983, the year in which the "official" Eon series hit its All Time Low.

[ChandlerBing]

Hey, I liked the John Barry score!

[Turn]

For me, OCTOPUSSY is one of the very worst James Bond films ever, possibly second only to THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH as the lamest flick of the entire bunch.

Still, at least there was a decent Bond movie in 1983 - NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN.

Loomis, I usually share several similar viewpoints as you, but we differ greatly on this one.

I'm curious as to why you dislike OP so much.

The makers of OCTOPUSSY should have reached a firm decision, very early on in production, as to whether they wanted to make another MOONRAKER or another FOR YOUR EYES ONLY. The car crash that is OCTOPUSSY stands as an awful cautionary tale of what you get when you decide you want to make both MOONRAKER 2 and FOR YOUR EYES ONLY 2 at the same time.

Even by Bond movie standards, OCTOPUSSY suffers from horrific lapses in logic. For instance, how would Octopussy have known that 007 was the man who caught up with her father, Dexter Smythe, and gave him "an honourable alternative"? We know she wasn't present at the time, and it seems unlikely that her old man would have phoned her up and said: "Look, love, I'm afraid I'm on the way out. You see, there's this chap James Bond, some undercover fellow who goes by the alias 007, and he's rumbled me, and...." Indeed, since she wasn't there, how would Octopussy have known about the unspoken "honourable alternative" deal at all? And, actually, since when has committing suicide rather than facing the music for what one has done been "honourable"? It's a coward's way out, no?

And while we're on the subject, what the heck gave Bond the right to offer Smythe an alternative to capture and trial? Bond's job was to take him into custody so that he could face justice, full stop - no ifs or buts, and certainly no "honourable" ways out. Did Smythe bribe 007? Did he give him some of that stolen gold in return for being given 24 hours to clean up his affairs and the opportunity to be left alone with a revolver? I think we should be told.

Still, the embarrassments of OCTOPUSSY are legion: an elderly, leering Moore tromboning the zoom lens of a video camera into a woman's cleavage (yes, folks, this is supposed to be the sophisticated James Bond 007, one of the coolest men in the world); Bond making his escape as Indian peasants scrabble for the banknotes he has thrown at them; a snake charmer playing the James Bond Theme on his flute; Steven Berkoff giving perhaps the hammiest performance in the history of the series; Bond in a clown suit and gorilla costume; and some full-on Benny Hill antics with Q being molested by Octopussy's girls in a hot air balloon with a Union Jack design.

However, NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN won the Battle of the Bonds running away, with vastly superior performances, action, locations and wit. Good job Connery and McClory were around to show the world how James Bond ought to be done in 1983, the year in which the "official" Eon series hit its All Time Low.

Well, I did have to ask.

You make some fair arguements although I can counter many of them.

I have never read it, but I think the Maj. Dexter Smythe suicide option comes directly from the novel. Blame Fleming for that one. It isn't inconceivable that Bond anonymously sent information to Smythe's family to let them know of this.

As far as racism goes, yeah, it probably won't do much for giving Westerners a better cultural view. But many other Bonds did the same things. TMWTGG has the goofy porter "Surprise" from the hotel room, the elephant kid, the family living above Lazar's workshop among them, the distracted cops, etc. Korea didn't come off a whole lot better with the farmers and their cows in DAD, a criticism leveled by several people.

As far as logic goes, OP does leave it in spades. But it's Bond. I could probably do a thesis picking YOLT apart on this basis. But what would be the point it's Bond. As I've said, the balance between the goofieness and the seriousness works for me.

NSNA vastly superior? It's different and the performances are probably better as is the wit, which is admittedly mostly juvenile in OP. But overall it pales. The locations are nothing big and the action is far from memorable compared with OP. Had they been able to go with their original concept of the film it may have been better, but as it stands, it is okay at best for me.

[Loomis]

[quote name='Turn' date='22 April 2004 - 14:45'] You make some fair arguements although I can counter many of them.

I have never read it, but I think the Maj. Dexter Smythe suicide option comes directly from the novel. Blame Fleming for that one. It isn't inconceivable that Bond anonymously sent information to Smythe's family to let them know of this.

[Johnboy007]

My third favorite Roger Bond film. It mixes the necessary elements well, the story is a good one and entertaining. My only gripe with this one is that Roger is really starting to show his age in this one (still not bad for 50 something).

[Turn]

I guess what it boils down to is that I simply don't find OCTOPUSSY an entertaining film in any way, shape or form. Believe me, I've tried to like it (hey, I'm a hardcore Bond geek, after all), but it just defeats my every attempt to do so.

I know what you mean about trying to like certain films but just can't. I feel this way about FYEO and TSWLM, which seem to be huge fan favorites, not just here at CBn.

I still don't think NSNA has anything on OP in terms of action or setting. I like the opening setup of Bond in the training session and the Shrublands brawl, but the underwater shark thing, the motorcycle chase and the shootout near the end are all pretty bland when compared to Bond hanging off trains and planes and sliding down stairwells shooting people.

One thing we can agree on -- I think TWINE just may have slipped to the bottom of my list below AVTA as far as favorites go. I still don't think AVTAK is a very good film, but the enthusiasm many have for it here combined with how much I like Walken and Patrick Bauchu really helps. The more I think about TWINE, the more it hurts.

[Loomis]

I feel this way about FYEO and TSWLM, which seem to be huge fan favorites, not just here at CBn.

Me too. I like TSWLM a lot more than FYEO, though, but I do find myself getting very bored at the halfway mark. Definitely the most overrated Bond flick ever, TSWLM. Give me MOONRAKER instead (widely regarded as an inferior retread of TSWLM).

I still don't think NSNA has anything on OP in terms of action or setting. I like the opening setup of Bond in the training session and the Shrublands brawl, but the underwater shark thing, the motorcycle chase and the shootout near the end are all pretty bland when compared to Bond hanging off trains and planes and sliding down stairwells shooting people.

I guess I prefer the action in NSNA because it's much more realistic than the action in OCTOPUSSY. I mean, I don't demand believable action scenes in Bond films, per se, and I enjoy overblown stunt sequences as much as the next man, as long as they're done well, but the action in OCTOPUSSY is just ludicrous (especially the final assault on the Monsoon Palace - and whose bright idea was it to have Q take part in it?). Also, I'd rather see a 50-something Bond star punching and firing at people in a vaguely credible manner than a 50-something Bond star hanging off trains and planes and sliding down stairwells shooting people.

The more I think about TWINE, the more it hurts.

Tell me about it.

[RJJB]

I guess my view of what constitutes a good Bond movie differs quite a bit. The character fought opponents as Red Grant and Oddjob, but can't get an old German Frau out of a phone booth? And that's an effective scene? Just another step into the morass of silliness, in my opinion.

[Loomis]

The character fought opponents as Red Grant and Oddjob, but can't get an old German Frau out of a phone booth?

Well put.

Actually, I find it hard to view OCTOPUSSY as part of the same series that includes FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and GOLDFINGER. My head tells me it's part of the same series, but my heart sure says different!

[bryonalston]

For me, OCTOPUSSY is one of the very worst James Bond films ever, possibly second only to THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH as the lamest flick of the entire bunch.

Still, at least there was a decent Bond movie in 1983 - NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN.

I have to completely disagree with you there. Octopussy is one of the best Moore films. It still has quite a dose of comedy, a staple for his films, the production value of the previous three movies, and it carries on the winning formula from FYEO. The characters are superbly cast and played with great skill. The plot is one of my personal favorites, tying The USSR, an Egg, A circus, a tiny plane, a Prince, and a woman named Octopussy all into one film. This is quite an achievement, and is no way "the lamest Bond film ever... second to TWINE."

Maud Adams and Roger Moore have great chemistry. So does Moore and Louis Jourdan. The smoldering rage he exhibits in the backgammon scene is classic. The supporting cast, including Kristina Wayborn and Kabir Bedi is inspired. The movie also delivers something that has been missing in the series lately... suspense!!! All in all, I give OCTOPUSSY a

9/10

BTW: NSNA sucks. Thunderball was a much better film.