22 replies to this topic

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Both MOONRAKER and DIE ANOTHER DAY share some interesting similarities:

Both were the 4th Bond outing for their respective 007 actors

Both were the most financially successful(so far, in Brosnan's case) of their respective actors Bond films

Both films had an American agent for the Bond heroine

Both films contain some(not a lot but some) elements of Ian Fleming's MOONRAKER novel

and

both films are often criticized as going awry in the final act. To paraphrase many, in MR's case "it's good until Bond goes into space" and in DAD's case "it's good until the cheesy looking CGI parasurfing stunt."

My question is: which of these 2 films had the better final 1/3?

I vote for MR. As OTT as it was to see 007 into space, at least the final 1/3 of MR did feature good special effects(at least for the standard of its release year: 1979) and still seemed like a movie. DAD's final 1/3 special effects looked cheesy even in 2002 and will only look worse as the film ages. Also, the final 1/3 of DAD seemed like it was cut less like a movie and more like a videogame. Too bad really, since the 1st 2/3 of DAD make for Brosnan's most entertaining Bond film yet.

Which one of these 2 films' final 1/3 do you prefer?

[Qwerty]

I prefer Moonraker more than Die Another Day's finale. As you know, they changed the finale for DAD, and it just seems rushed when their on the plane. Moonraker, I enjoyed Bond and Holly running around the space station and John Barry's Flight Into Space track is a gem.

[DanMan]

I like DAD's much better. I'd take a gadget car chase on ice and a catfight on a burning jet over a lasergun fight in space any day.

[License To Kill]

Originally posted by Qwerty
I prefer Moonraker more than Die Another Day's finale. As you know, they changed the finale for DAD.

Forgive me for asking, but what was the original ending for DAD?

[DanMan]

There was going to be a commando battle on a man-made beach in Japan.

[Tarl_Cabot]

They are both examples of how not to make a Bond movie.No extra cheese, please. Thank you.

[freemo]

Moonraker.

Really liked the bit where Bond and Holly had to shoot those three capsules.

[Doubleshot]

Die Another Day is naturally my choice. The special effects work for me and the story for the final act also has a certain credibility in my mind that Moonraker lacks. We have the great David Arnold score in its different tones, David Tattersall's gorgeous cinematography featuring Iceland compared to the dull blackness of space, and a much better pace. The ending of Moonraker slowly creeps on for me and I have a tough time sitting through all of it. I find the climax of Die Another Day to be very exciting and it has a lot more going for it than a film that, no matter how many times I watch it, will never leave my bottom five list. We have that great Moneypenny VR scene in Die Another Day, the wonderful location shot that swings around the ocean and the magical sunset. And it doesn't hurt that I prefer Brosnan to Moore any day. This is all my opinion, of course.

I wonder why Thunderball wasn't mentioned? Some also critisize its third act the way they do Moonraker and Die Another Day. Just wondering...

[BONDFINESSE 007]

moonraker to me still comes ahead of dad, and i think it always will

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

"I wonder why Thunderball wasn't mentioned? Some also critisize its third act the way they do Moonraker and Die Another Day. Just wondering"

Oh for goodness' sake - Thunderball's ending is quite possibly the most exciting one of all! If nothing else, it's certainly the most violent...

[Double-Oh-Zero]

For me, I enjoyed DAD's third act better than MR's, based mostly on the presence of a much better villain death. Mind you, I like the "Take a giant leap for mankind" line better than "Time to face gravity." Also, the fact that Jaws turned good in MR's third act really makes me lean towards DAD's. Hey, at least Vlad didn't crack open a bottle of Bollinger and say "Well, heres' to us, boss" to one of the Korean officers. The only thing I really don't like about DAD's last 1/3 is the end love scene between Bond and Jinx, which is done really badly.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by Double-Oh-Zero
For me, I enjoyed DAD's third act better than MR's, based mostly on the presence of a much better villain death. Mind you, I like the "Take a giant leap for mankind" line better than "Time to face gravity." Also, the fact that Jaws turned good in MR's third act really makes me lean towards DAD's. Hey, at least Vlad didn't crack open a bottle of Bollinger and say "Well, heres' to us, boss" to one of the Korean officers. The only thing I really don't like about DAD's last 1/3 is the end love scene between Bond and Jinx, which is done really badly.

the love scene ...or should i say the fake love scene with bond and moneypenny was so much better then bond and jinx....oh how i wish bond and moneypenny had been real

[Doubleshot]

Originally posted by Dr.Carl Mortner
"I wonder why Thunderball wasn't mentioned? Some also critisize its third act the way they do Moonraker and Die Another Day. Just wondering"

Oh for goodness' sake - Thunderball's ending is quite possibly the most exciting one of all! If nothing else, it's certainly the most violent...

I agree with you fully Dr. Carl, as Thunderball is my favorite Bond film. But I was just wondering why a fourth film so critisized for it's third act is neglected to be mentioned here.

[Genrewriter]

As far as third acts for fopurth films go:

1. Thunderball: Quite simply one of the most exciting final acts in the series. You get a spectacularly violent underwater battle and a slugfest onboard a runaway boat.

2. Die Another Day: It goes for basically the same type of momentum with the car chase and plane finmale but takes a bit too long in getting there. I would have been quite happy if Bond and Jinx had driven the Aston Martin up into the plane for the finale. You couild still have the same action but with some slight changes to the scenes with M and maybe give either Bond or Jinx a transmitter to let the good guysd know where they are.

3. Moonraker: I was simply bored to tears by the third act. There is far too much docking footage and the laser fight pales in comparison to the finale of Spy who Loved Me. I do however enjoy Drax's final scene. It's basically a low key, non physical version of Graves's demise.

[Jazzy Bond]

I prefer DAD's first 1/3, first 2/3 first everyting over MR. As one post said, I think by my man, Danman, I'd take that catfight, which I don't see how any warmblooded male would have a problem with IMHO, over the hokey, let's be like Star Wars feel of MR. Also throwing in the death of Graves/Moon's dad and the awesome special effects of Icarus w/the land mines is great stuff. A comment that I will interject here brings this home in my mind. When I first saw DAD in the theaters I brought some friends and family. Some of my friends were Bond likers but not really up on Bond,hadn't seen a new one in awhile, get the idea, you guys probably have the same kind of friends. But anyway when we came out of the movie these friends said WOW who was the director on that Jay (btw, my real name, yes I'm one of the oldies on this forum aka Jaybond) knowing I'd know the answer I told them and they were just floored by the plane falling apart the great Moneypenney scene the cinematography with James and Jinx. In other words they were in love with the final act! So that in my mind is probably the feel of many the general moviegoer. I mean I still get psyched when Jinx takes off her coat and throws it and puts up her dukes/knives for Miranda, it always gets a "Let's get it on bitch" out of me and I loved it when she kills Frost and throws in that "Bitch" line because in my mind when I saw the film the first time that's what I said outloud, not too loud, and it was cool that it was said in the movie as well, just fit the moment! Plus, even though it's impossible I love the embedded cars in the rice patties. That scene when the helicoptor is flying off and we see the car with the farmer in the foreground before it fades to the Moneypenney scene is great filmwork, has that Goldfinger feel or something. Moneypenney scene still gets a roar out of me after multiple viewings. The only thing that roars out of my mouth at this stage in MR is a yawn!

[Kristian]

I'd have to go with DIE ANOTHER DAY. I actually saw MOONRAKER for the first time earlier this year, and thought it was fairly enjoyable. The space thing wasn't so bad, either. Just kind of jarring the way they switched from relatively down-to-earth action to lasers-in-space and what not.

Still, DAD had the more enjoyable finale.

[Kingdom Come]

I like all of Moonraker - I like almost all of DAD - the plane scene, although exciting and rousing, just reminded me way to much of Arnie's films. I heard about the original idea to end the film on an 'indoor' beach - sounds like a location we have not seen before. I'm all for that.
I don't understand people's dislike of space and when Bond enters space.
It is only a matter of time before he is sent back up.

[DLibrasnow]

My vote goes with MOONRAKER. I really don't think it's close. Overall MOONRAKER is a far more enjoyable movie that has structure and style. The final 1/3 of the movie (although the low point of the movie) does sit well with the rest of the picture in tone and pacing and the special effects are admirable for 1979.
In contrast the final 1/3 of DIE ANOTHER DAY lacks all focus and feels confused and dithering. The battle on the plane lacks punch (forgive the pun) and is edited horrendously.

[Jazzy Bond]

Dlibrasnow, looks like I Finally found something we agree on and it's not Bond related (we're on two different planets there, lol) I too am a HUGE Dirk Pitt fan! PM me later and let meknow what you think about how that series is going!! but back to Bond, the dude of all dudes, I can't ever get past the Jaws trnsformation in MR. What the.... with him falling in love with the pig tailed girl??? That's better than an awesome catfight onboard a burning plane?? I don't understand the hatred toward the plane ending!! I agree maybe the commando raid on the indoor beach would have been more entertaining, but who knows maybe it didn't make since or didn't have a big enough death for the villains. Tamahori said in his commentary on the DVD that he wanted BIG deaths for his baddies and he got them aboard the plane. Bond and Graves fighting I thought was O.K. but the girls going at it was GREAT!! Also the score that was playing over the Icarus blowing up the DMZ was spine chilling. It was also cool, well maybe not cool, that at that same time in the world the U.S. was having problems with N. Korea building a nuke. So, when I was seeing the movie I was thinking that, yes, this is a Bond flick and ,yes, it is OTT but this really isn't that far off from reality! You start thinking what if the North took over the South, albeit, not with a space weapon but in general. Could they invade Japan? Maybe. And would that be seen as a threat to the West? Most definitely!!! Made the threat seem rel and made the movie even better , for me that is!! MR, has NOTHING like that in the sense of realism and also it has NOTHING like the great Moneypenney sequence which will go down in Bond lore as one of the all time great moments!!

[Jazzy Bond]

I know we are comparing the final 1/3 here and I didn't time it on the movie but my real problem with MR is not in space but the stuff just leading up to it. In fact MR is a pretty damn good movie, leaving out the gondola scene that is, up until Bond goes to Brazil. The movie is just a globetrotting for globetrotting purposes and really seems to fall apart this is where the above mentione pig tailed girl comes in and all menace that jaws has is forever gone at that moment. The chase on the Amazon feels tacked on doesn't flow with the movie. And than Bond just happens to land in the one part of the jungle that has this beautiful woman who ends up luring him back to Drax's HQ. A little hard to fathom even for a Bond movie. It's a shame because like I said the first part,especially the quail hunting scene and the space gyro thingie, is damn good stuff and again the space stuff didn't bother me! Kind of like DAD The first 2/3 is perfect, the part right before the ending is the only part I have a problem with the ice dragster followed right after with the car chase was too much! Just like Brazil followed by th boat chase seemed too much! the final, final act the space scenes and the plane fight are pretty suspenseful stuff.

[DLibrasnow]

Jazzy....you really should pick up the Christopher Wood "Moonraker" novel....that was what they should have filmed....
Yes, Dirk Pitt...I am so ready for "Sahara" to make it to the big screen finally...

[Jazzy Bond]

Dlibrasnow, do you mean they should have filmed that adaptation for MR or for DAD because i've read all of fleming and as you know the MR novel has alot of stuff in it that tey used in DAD. Help clarify, I think you mean for MR but I'm not sure. But thanks, though, know where i can get a copy of it?

Also, are you saying they are filming Sahara??? If so do you know who is play Pitt, or any details??? Really good news there if it's true!!!!

[Pussfeller]

Eccch, hated DAD. I prefer MR in every respect. Goodhead was more fun and far less annoying than Jinx, the plot wasn't quite as stupid and unnecessarily complicated, and the final act didn't look like it was generated on an Atari. I liked Brosnan, but IMO the movie was awful.