20 replies to this topic

[Coop]

Is anyone else a bit disappointed with the quality of the prints used on the DVDs. There seems to have been absolutely no restoration done on them. I was watching OHMSS last night and it looked like it was snowing in the South of France, there was so much sparkle on the print. For the cost of the CG menus, MGM could have gone back to the original elements and had the films looking brand new. If the BBC and Hong Kong Legends can do this for minority appeal DVDs like Doctor Who and martial arts films, surely MGM can do this for the Bond series. I'd also like to see the (admittedly great) extras moved to a second disc to give the films a higher bitrate.

Does anyone agree? Would anyone else like to see these 'ultimate editions' released in a year or two? Maybe in time for Bond 21.

And just to be controversial, how about replacing a few of the dodgy special effects (Jaws going over a waterfall/MIG crashing into the sattelite dish/Goldfinger's jet) with new CG versions. As optional extras of course

[Loomis]

You're quite right, Coop. I don't know which region your DVDs belong to - I have R2 myself - although I guess the transfers used would have been the same worldwide.

None of the transfers are particularly great, falling far short of the high standard of many DVD releases. Titles like FOR YOUR EYES ONLY and OCTOPUSSY border on the terrible: too dark, with muddy colours and little sharpness.

And is it me, or have they not bothered to do anamorphic transfers enchanced for widescreen TVs for many of the Bonds? Very poor.

I'd certainly welcome two-disc "ultimate editions", but maybe for certain titles only, as I don't fancy shelling out a fortune again to acquire all the Bond films. Rather than new special effects (I thought the added CGI on the original STAR WARS triology stuck out like a sore thumb, meaning that the effects went from not convincing enough to too "clean" and obtrusive), I'd prefer excised scenes to be restored. I'd certainly like to see full-length "director's cuts" of films like LICENCE TO KILL and DIE ANOTHER DAY, as well as older titles if possible (there's plenty of cutting room floor material for many of the Bonds - apparently a whopping 18 minutes was trimmed from GOLDENEYE just prior to release).

But yeah, some great ideas you have there, Coop.

[rafterman]

yeah, but compare these to video versions and they're much better than those....personally I have no problems with the transfers...

[Red Grant]

Whilst I agree the print quality on some of the Bond DVD's are poor compared to other releases of the period, I have seen a lot worse. At least they are the correct ratio and more or less uncut and therefore a lot better than VHS or even broadcast TV. For MGM (or whoever) to completely remaster them would be a very costly exercise as they'd need all the originlal elements to do it properly (camera negative, dialogue/fx tracks, sound stems etc).
With regard to replacing some of the dodgy FX - absolutely not. I am not a fan of updating older movies just to make the more palatable for a modern audience. The effects were done with the best of intentions within the constraints of the technology that was current when they were made. If a modern audience can't accept these effects - tough! That is how they were - back projection was the norm then (now it's done digitally as in DAD and still doesn't look any better!).
I read that George Lucas has recently said that the original Star Wars trilogy will NEVER be released on DVD sa he is still not happy with them and keeps continually adding new stuff to make them better. So gone will be all the innovative model work and motion control camerawork that made them so special in the first place. The real reason is that he can keep continually re-releasing them to a drooling public so that he makes even more money:( I can't think of any film with the exception of Star Trek: The Motion Picture that has had new effects added that actually improve the original. The new version of E.T. certainly added nothing of substance and I for one don't want to watch it over the original.
The current trend of digitally enhancing things has gone too far. The Beatles "Abbey Road" album cover was recently 'amended' to remove offinsive cigarettes. What next - a new version of Bond's introduction in Dr. No, where he peels a banana instead of smoking? The world is becoming far too politically correct in my opinion and needs to lighten up.
I'm sure the Bond films will get issued again on DVD or whatever the next medium will be and then we'll all have to buy them yet again. Like everything else there doesn't seem to be a defintive edition of anything anymore. I know I use digital technology to enhance the images I use on my website - but I don't change them! I respect the artist's original work and only replace tears, scratches and generally clean up the image. That isn't changing anything it only returns the picture to it's former glory wherever possible. Where will it all end....?
OK, Rant Over!!

[Red Grant]

Whilst I agree the print quality on some of the Bond DVD's are poor compared to other releases of the period, I have seen a lot worse. At least they are the correct ratio and more or less uncut and therefore a lot better than VHS or even broadcast TV. For MGM (or whoever) to completely remaster them would be a very costly exercise as they'd need all the originlal elements to do it properly (camera negative, dialogue/fx tracks, sound stems etc).
With regard to replacing some of the dodgy FX - absolutely not. I am not a fan of updating older movies just to make the more palatable for a modern audience. The effects were done with the best of intentions within the constraints of the technology that was current when they were made. If a modern audience can't accept these effects - tough! That is how they were - back projection was the norm then (now it's done digitally as in DAD and still doesn't look any better!).
I read that George Lucas has recently said that the original Star Wars trilogy will NEVER be released on DVD sa he is still not happy with them and keeps continually adding new stuff to make them better. So gone will be all the innovative model work and motion control camerawork that made them so special in the first place. The real reason is that he can keep continually re-releasing them to a drooling public so that he makes even more money:( I can't think of any film with the exception of Star Trek: The Motion Picture that has had new effects added that actually improve the original. The new version of E.T. certainly added nothing of substance and I for one don't want to watch it over the original.
The current trend of digitally enhancing things has gone too far. The Beatles "Abbey Road" album cover was recently 'amended' to remove offinsive cigarettes. What next - a new version of Bond's introduction in Dr. No, where he peels a banana instead of smoking? The world is becoming far too politically correct in my opinion and needs to lighten up.
I'm sure the Bond films will get issued again on DVD or whatever the next medium will be and then we'll all have to buy them yet again. Like everything else there doesn't seem to be a defintive edition of anything anymore. I know I use digital technology to enhance the images I use on my website - but I don't change them! I respect the artist's original work and only replace tears, scratches and generally clean up the image. That isn't changing anything it only returns the picture to it's former glory wherever possible. Where will it all end....?
OK, Rant Over!!

[Coop]

**********LOOMIS' POINTS**********

>>I don't know which region your DVDs belong<<

Region two for the most part, although I got the US version of TND as it was uncut.

>>have they not bothered to do anamorphic transfers enchanced for widescreen TVs for many of the Bonds?<<

They are all anamorphic, except for Casino Royale. I know because I have to manually adjust my 16/9 TV, but I can understand peoples confusion as some of them DVDs are poor. I agree totally re. Octopussy.

********RED GRANT'S POINTS**********

>>At least they are the correct ratio<<

Actually, the first three are framed 1:77 when they should be 1:66. It doesn't greatly annoy me, but a few film buffs were peeved at this.

>>For MGM (or whoever) to completely remaster them would be a very costly<<

It could be cheaper than you think. Good film restoration costs thousands of pounds, but they should be able to do each film for less than

[Red Grant]

>>I don't know which region your DVDs belong<<

I believe the region 2 versions of Licence to Kill, Goldeneye & Tomorrow Never Dies are the cut versions to comply with the BBFC rating. OHMSS is an unitentionally cut version not done for censorship reasons.

>>have they not bothered to do anamorphic transfers enchanced for widescreen TVs for many of the Bonds?<<

ALL MGM Bond's with the exception of Casino Royale and Never Say Never Again in R2 are anamorphic. The R1 versions all have much better menus in my opinion and I for one only ever buy R1 material even though I am in the UK. This is another story..but I would always choose R1 over R2 unless there were very different extras on them. PAL speedup and boxes with certificates and inane quotes from popular tabloids don't really appeal to me.

********RED GRANT'S POINTS**********

>>At least they are the correct ratio<<

Actually, the first three are framed 1:77 when they should be 1:66. It doesn't greatly annoy me, but a few film buffs were peeved at this.

True, technically, but they would be projected at 1:85 in the US originally so you actually lose very little;)

I see your point about the angle option but I don't believe they should be tampered with in the first place.

[Loomis]

The thing is, some sort of re-issue of the Bonds on DVD is a virtual certainty. There was a thread a couple of months back on work that's underway remastering the soundtracks of various Bond films, presumably for future DVD release. Perhaps the films themselves will otherwise remain unchanged, but we can definitely expect a re-issue of the Bonds, probably with new extra features, at some point. Maybe in 2012 for the 50th anniversary, although who knows what improvements will have been made to the DVD format by then? Before that, though, expect at least one re-issue of the entire collection with all-new packaging (like, big deal!) over the next few years, probably to coincide with the theatrical release of BOND 21.

BTW, Red Grant, really great post back there. Remember when studios decided a few years ago that people wouldn't want to see old B&W films unless they colourized them, and you had directors like Woody Allen up in arms?

I'm so glad I'm not much of a STAR WARS fan, they must be going slowly mad waiting for the original triology to come out on DVD.

Red Grant, I always thought PAL was much better quality than NTSC (Never Twice The Same Colour).

[Red Grant]

Originally posted by Loomis

BTW, Red Grant, really great post back there. Remember when studios decided a few years ago that people wouldn't want to see old B&W films unless they colourized them, and you had directors like Woody Allen up in arms?

I'm so glad I'm not much of a STAR WARS fan, they must be going slowly mad waiting for the original triology to come out on DVD.

Red Grant, I always thought PAL was much better quality than NTSC (Never Twice The Same Colour).

Don't get me on the colourisation issue.....! One of the greatest horrors ever forced onto the world of cinema! Again, all very clever but only done so that tiny minded audiences could watch old films that they probably woudn't appreciate in colour or b/w!

Yes PAL is better quality (marginally) but on my DVD player at least I have always preferred NTSC over PAL. R2 menus seem to react slower to me and you get hundreds of languages to choose from (due to the wide area R2 covers) which ultimately I never use and take up valuable space that could be used on a highter bitrate for the film. The speedup really annoys me as I can notice it particularly in the pitch of music and soundtrack. I am a purist and if a film is 120 minutes long I don't want it to end in 116!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Red Grant
I believe the region 2 versions of Licence to Kill, Goldeneye & Tomorrow Never Dies are the cut versions to comply with the BBFC rating. OHMSS is an unitentionally cut version not done for censorship reasons.

I believe that all of the Brosnan Bond films and quite a few of the others were trimmed slightly for violence by the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC). Xenia headbutting Natalya was removed from GOLDENEYE, while TOMORROW NEVER DIES loses a headbutt here, Bond kicking someone in the face there.

In addition, the BBFC regularly demands that the thwacking sound of punches in fight scenes be downmixed, presumably so that violent scenes seem less exciting to kids.

Must pick up a Japanese LICENCE TO KILL DVD at some point, as I've read that the Japanese version is the most complete. I used to own a Japanese VHS copy, and it seemed virtually identical to the UK R2 DVD version, except for a couple more shots of Krest's swelling, then exploding, head that momentarily took Bond into Freddy Krueger territory.

If censorship bothers you (and it should), always buy R1. Unless it's a movie like EYES WIDE SHUT, of course.

[Daltonitus]

Delving into the world of censorship for a moment, you have to wonder what they think they will achieve by cutting parts/changing ratings on home releases of films.

If they cut parts, you just buy the most complete version from a foriegn market and if the rating is changed, mummy or daddy can get you the film you want

For cinemas it's totaly understandable, but home releases should just be a complete version in any part of the world.

Hey, if the film offends you, maybe you shouldn't have watched it....

The DVDs of bond are really quite poor, considering what could have been done.

There is little to no remastering, no new 5.1 mixes for the older films, fairly dull menus, average media extras (old interviews/posters/trailers/etc) and the new stuff (commentary, new interviews) are fairly good stuff, but they are too short and do go in depth enough. They should feed the drooling bond fans every wish and they don't even come close.
OHMSS is a complete travesty for example.

[Loomis]

Damn regional coding! Damn it to hell!!!!!!!!

[Red Grant]

Originally posted by Daltonitus

There is little to no remastering, no new 5.1 mixes for the older films, fairly dull menus, average media extras (old interviews/posters/trailers/etc) and the new stuff (commentary, new interviews) are fairly good stuff, but they are too short and do go in depth enough. They should feed the drooling bond fans every wish and they don't even come close.
OHMSS is a complete travesty for example.

The DVD's are the best the films have ever looked despite the lack of remastering. I don't think they should have 5.1 mixes (they weren't mixed like that in the first place). Thunderball has been remixed as have the titles to Goldfinger but beyond that they are the original mono as they should be up until The Spy Who Loved Me. The menus are superb on the R1 versions - ten times better than the very poor R2 versions. The documentaries are one the whole very informative (let's not forget these discs have to appeal to everyone, not only die hard Bond fans). I wouldn't call around 20 hours of new original documantary material average. The commentaries suffer because many of the team are deceased and naturally the most interesting thing to talk about seems to be the effects and stunts. The John Hopkins contributions of the Thunderball disc are fascinating. Peter Hunt's commentary on OHMSS is superb and overall I would say this disc stands out as one of the jewels of the series in terms of extras. At last we got an in-depth documentary and a chance for so many years worth of lies and rumours to be corrected. Lazenby has a chance to put his case across very honestly. So, far from a travesty in my opinion. I think the Brosnan films come out worst in terms of extras but maybe that is because there is so little interesting information about them beyond how the stunts were done I'm not sure that two disc superb special editions would sell as well as these current versions as it would only be a small percentage of the DVD buying market. Personally, I love the Bond films in the format they are and revisit them and the extras with interest every time. It would take a lot of important changes to make me buy them all again.

[Red Grant]

Originally posted by Loomis
Damn regional coding! Damn it to hell!!!!!!!!

Get a multi-region player mate I made sure that this was what I got so I can get the films I want, in the version I want for a fraction of the price I would have to buy them for in the UK high street.

[Loomis]

Well, I'd decided I was going to be satisfied with R2, since I'd read that PAL boasts the best picture quality, and also because films generally don't suffer TOO badly from censorship in the UK. I can live with a few seconds trimmed from the films in my Bond collection - I shouldn't have to, mind, but I can.

But I'll have to re-buy the Bonds on DVD again at some point. We all will, since DVDs deteriorate over time. Natural atrophy occurs on the play surface causing a noticeable deterioration after only about 10 years. Damnation!

[JBond007]

How do the R1 menus differ from the R2s?

I know TWINE is different with R2 getting a blushish menu screen, whereas TWINE gets a purply reddish one with menus 'floating', but it misses a doco.

[Red Grant]

Originally posted by JBond007
How do the R1 menus differ from the R2s?

I know TWINE is different with R2 getting a blushish menu screen, whereas TWINE gets a purply reddish one with menus 'floating', but it misses a doco.

The R1 menus are designed by 1K Studio and screen grabs of many of them are here:
The World is Not Enough:
http://www.thedigita...ough.html#menus
Goldfinger:
http://www.thedigita...erse.html#menus
Thunderball:
http://www.thedigita...ball.html#menus
Live and Let Die:
http://www.thedigita...tdie.html#menus
For Your Eyes Only:
http://www.thedigita...lyse.html#menus
Licence to Kill:
http://www.thedigita...llse.html#menus
GoldenEye:
http://www.thedigita...neye.html#menus
Tomorrow Never Dies (same as original special edition DVD):
http://www.thedigita...dies.html#menus


The R2 has a rather inferior menu based on Kleinman's titles which just don't compare to the animation and style that goes into all of the R1 versions. They are all just so well done with music and dialogue that seems to be lacking on the R2 ones I have seen.

[Daltonitus]

Only a couple of those menus looks different to my R2 versions.

Maybe us R2 'victims' aren't as hard done by as we all thought.

As for the DVDs being any good, well I guess I expect alot from a DVD when I buy it, and I mean alot. The words 'special edition' mean that it should be seriously good and yet, really, they contain what you would expect from any (good) DVD release of a pivitol film series and nothing much 'extra'.

Perhaps I am too demanding, after all they mostly cost my

[JBond007]

You wonder why they bother making different menus as it's obviously going to incur a greater cost, yet they can't spend money to clean up pictures.

It beggars belief.

[Coop]

>>You wonder why they bother making different menus as it's obviously going to incur a greater cost, yet they can't spend money to clean up pictures.

It beggars belief.<<

Exactly. I guess that was the point of my original posting, only you put it more succinctly.

If The Great Escape DVD can be reissued in a 2-disc set with restored sound and picture surely the Bond films can be.

[JBond007]

Fortunately it looks like that they're making a start with DAD being a 2 disc set.

There's lots of illogicality in our world.