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Our suggestions for BOND 25


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#1 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:14 PM

As Tiin007 stated in another thread, as longtime, loyal fans we could at least make suggestions what we would like to see in BOND 25 and what we would not like to see.

 

Maybe, someone working for EON will indeed read and report this...

 

So, if you please - fire away!



#2 Call Billy Bob

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:16 PM

Let's go somewhere we've never gone! South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, anywhere in Canada or the northern US...



#3 Tiin007

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:22 PM

Australia would be great.

 

I'd also like to spend time in a Middle Eastern country with actual Middle Eastern people (Morocco, in that regard, was a big letdown in SP). 

 

Things to avoid:

-unnecessarily bringing back the DB5 
-needlessly having Bond go rogue / retire / resign / be stripped of his licence, as was the case in each of the past five Bond films

-trust issues with M and Bond

-"this time, it's personal"

-winks, nods, and homages whose sole purpose is to remind us of earlier iconography from the series 



#4 coco1997

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:40 PM

Ben Mendelsohn as the villain.

 

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#5 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 06:33 PM

Ben Mendelsohn as the villain.

He's a really great actor. If the role is right, then i'd be very happy about that.

 

He needed more screen time Rogue One, but nevertheless sketched out a surprisingly complex, nuanced villain for a Star Wars movie.



#6 Tiin007

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 06:51 PM

It's also interesting that Ben Mendelsohn is over a year younger than Daniel Craig. I think he looks far older. 



#7 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 08:20 PM

I'd like to see B25 (with Craig, Waltz etc. returning) see out the story arc they began with Spectre.

 

Take the tragic ending from OHMSS and move it to the pre-titles of B25. This is most probably the existing plan - it's a great inciting incident. Plus the more you hammer home that he's happily retired, the more impact the death has and they really did make it overtly clear he's retired - happily an ex-00. And of course Bond would be demanding he get his 00s back to avenge her, as was his obsession in Fleming's sequel to OHMSS.

 

Then use YOLT as the spine of the movie, keeping the narrative intact and using much of the dialogue where possible with a modernising pass, just like they did with CR.

 

Definitely keep the Garden of Death, but rethink the sword fight finale; works in the book because of Blofeld's large stature. So obviously it won't work for Waltz.

 

Keep the epilogue amnesia and island life; remembering and going home.... To Russia. However, now the cold war is (apparently) over that should be revised to SPECTRE HQ which they'll need to reveal to Bond earlier on so that he has this memory).

 

Bond 26 introduces Bond actor 7, but use Fleming's sequel-esque beginning of TMWTGG: Bond (new actor) returns to M a year or so later, claiming to be fine. Then unsuccessfully attempts to kill M. We find out that Bond has been brainwashed (while M has been spending his time dismantling SPECTRE with his new 00s).

 

Bond then undergoing therapy etc. to see if his can be salvaged is a perfect way to introduce a new actor; a soft reboot.

 

He has to re-learn and remember who James Bond really is. On top of this he has to prove his worth among the new 00s M has been using.



#8 Toxteth_OGrady

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:36 PM

Get David Arnold back.

#9 Tiin007

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 10:01 PM

Get David Arnold back.

 

Yes x 100!



#10 MISALA1994

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 09:41 AM

From MR to FYEO route.

#11 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 10:29 AM

My personal wish list:

 

- Use Craig for one more film only if that film can be released in 2018 or 2019 at the latest.  Otherwise acknowledge that too much time has passed and that a fresh start with a new actor will give the series new energy.

 

- If Craig is back, and you want to continue the Spectre/Blofeld-story, then don´t just go through the motions with unused YOLT-ideas.  And don´t remake the OHMSS-ending with Madeleine.  Find something surprising for her.  Like... making her turn to the dark side.  That way, you could also explain easily and interestingly why Bond left her and rejoined the service.  What about this PTS:  Bond thinks he can enjoy his honeymoon period with Madeleine in an exotic location... and then she tries to kill him.  He can barely escape.  Afterwards he finds clues that Madeleine was in cohort with Spectre the whole time, slyly leading Bond to Spectre´s lair, and coaxing him out of the service...  In fact, Madeleine was trying to take control of Spectre and wanted Blofeld to be finished off by Bond.  - To me, that would put SPECTRE in perspective and excuse it as a transitional film, misleading Bond (and the audience) before culminating in a (hopefully) satisfying finale.

 

- If Craig is not back and you recast Bond, get an actor who is absolutely thrilled to be Bond and willing to do many pictures on an every-two-years-basis.  Even if it will take longer between the films, have him on a tighter leash and don´t create a situation in which he can demand directors to wait for.  You´re the producer, you decide what is right for the series, not a temporary element.

 

- If a new actor is cast, don´t even try to establish one big arc for several films.  Don´t tell a story that takes years to finish or has to be ret-conned in order to give us the impression everything was planned out.  Just send Bond on missions that can be wrapped up at the end of one film.

 

- The time for the rogue Bond must be over.  Also his questioning of why he wants to be a secret agent after all.  If he sees no sense in his choice of job he is not James Bond... but Jason Bourne.

 

- Times are crazy right now, and it does not seem to get any less crazy.  Acknowledge this by giving us more fun again - we definitely need it.  No emo-Bond anymore, rather a hero that can and should make fun of the powerful and enjoy the way he can expose those idiots.  You know, like Bond did in former times.

 

- Go for cinematographers who bring the kind of visual elegance and intelligent opulence that Roger Deakins could achieve.  Stop the bleached-out look of SPECTRE and prohibit any director from arguing: I want the story to dictate everything, even if that means the story causes drab, ugly and boring palettes.  Bond films are supposed to look magnificent, they sell a fantasy world.

 

- Travelogues these days wreak havoc on a budget, yes - but they are part of the Bond film history and give dimension to the importance of his missions.  Of course, a one-location film can be fun, too.  But don´t use Great Britain again for a very long time.  London is fine only for the expositional scenes between M, Moneypenny, Q and Bond.

 

- M, Moneypenny and Q... yes, you have great actors now for these roles.  But if these actors only want to return if they get a substantial amount of shooting days, resulting in making them part of the plot, then re-cast them with great character actors who enjoy their bit parts.  Bond stories are not about "Mission Impossible"-team efforts.  And you take away from Bond´s impact whenever you cut to M, Moneypenny and Q trying to fight the bad guys, too.  Damn, that´s why they employ secret agents: so they don´t have to do these things by themselves!  Field agents - desk seargents.  It´s as simple as that.

 

- Purvis and Wade always get a bad rap, and maybe they do deserve it.  But please, allow this to be revealed by NOT chasing the flavour-of-the-month script doctor to come in and rewrite them.  Stick with "the boys" and show them that you really appreciate them.  Don´t throw them under the bus whenever a big name director says: Oh, this is terrible, I have to get my guy on board to do this.  Only for that guy to just be a lackey who wants to stay employed by saying YES, SIR!

 

- David Arnold might have run out of ideas how to score another Bond film.  Still, in his best Bond scores he did capture the signature John Barry sound very well.  And the long hiatus for him might have rejuvenated his creative mojo.  If Craig is back Arnold, who has started with Craig, should be allowed to write one last Bond score, too.  If Craig is not back, go for someone new - but please: choose a real composer, not one of those who call themselves film composers but never learned their craft, only how to create soundscapes on their computers.  Check out CHRIS BACON, ROQUE BANOS, JOE KRAEMER or ABEL KORZENIOWSKI.

 

- Cast surprises, not the usual suspects.  Don´t go for the BIG NAME, create new stars through Bond instead of having Bond carry stars with their baggage.

 

- That´s all for now but I´m sure I can wiseass more if given time.



#12 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 12:25 PM

 

Get David Arnold back.

 

Yes x 100!

 

I love Arnold's work, but i feel the franchise has moved to a place in which such pop-bombast would feel old hat.

 

I wasn't sure about Newman at first, but have to say his work has been fantastic and i hope he stays.

 

Back to Arnold - i did feel he reinvented himself at times utilising south american instruments on QoS, which i was a big fan of (the quieter moments). But no offence to Arnold, there's a sophistication to Newman's scores that chime with Craig's more character driven scripts and direction.

 

But please, oh please can they lure Deakins back to the viewfinder, please?



#13 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 12:36 PM

- M, Moneypenny and Q... yes, you have great actors now for these roles.  But if these actors only want to return if they get a substantial amount of shooting days, resulting in making them part of the plot, then re-cast them with great character actors who enjoy their bit parts.

I think this is a huge point going forward.

 

This pandering to big names in supporting roles is just as insidious as Brossa's over the top invisible cars.

 

Wishaw and Fiennes are fantastic in their roles and i'd hate to see them recast. I don't imagine they're divas, demanding more lines or else. I'd bet this is Eon trying to exploit their big names and the writers wanting to give these great actors more to do.

 

They need to reign it in, or these assets will become baggage weighing the franchise down. Just as the tenures inevitably turn to daft sci-fi stories when they run out of ideas, they'll find themselves thinking the audience now expect more and more from these supporting characters and try to crowbar in more screen time with each instalment. Nip it in the bud.

 

Make plenty out of the scenes they're in, not plenty of scenes for them to be in.

 

I think my favourite scene in SF (along with Bond/Silva's first exchange) is Q and Bond's first encounter in The National Gallery in front of Turner. The dialogue is razor sharp and the performances are top notch. Q et al don't need lots of screen time when they're scenes can steal the movie.

 

And forgodsakes, stop trying to 'cute-up' Moneypenny's scenes - Naomie does sexy-comedy about as subtly Barbara Windsor. More wit, less guffaws - she's a good actress, let her act, rather than playing to the cheap seats. It's either drop the cutsie innuendo chasing, or recast, because as talented as she is she doesn't do comedy too well. The relationship should be kinda 70% professional, with 30% unrequited desire. With Naomie it's visa-versa. Perhaps Keeley Haws could kick this ratio into order, without having to tone down the innuendo?!



#14 Eskyfall

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 06:30 PM

I see 2 problems with making Madeleine the villain: 

1. It would be completely out of character for her

2. It would be a rehash of Vesper.



#15 Hockey Mask

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:40 AM

Craig + Mendes + Shatterhand

#16 Tiin007

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:54 AM

My personal wish list:

 

- If Craig is back, and you want to continue the Spectre/Blofeld-story, then don´t just go through the motions with unused YOLT-ideas.  And don´t remake the OHMSS-ending with Madeleine.  Find something surprising for her.  Like... making her turn to the dark side.  That way, you could also explain easily and interestingly why Bond left her and rejoined the service.  What about this PTS:  Bond thinks he can enjoy his honeymoon period with Madeleine in an exotic location... and then she tries to kill him.  He can barely escape.  Afterwards he finds clues that Madeleine was in cohort with Spectre the whole time, slyly leading Bond to Spectre´s lair, and coaxing him out of the service...  In fact, Madeleine was trying to take control of Spectre and wanted Blofeld to be finished off by Bond.  - To me, that would put SPECTRE in perspective and excuse it as a transitional film, misleading Bond (and the audience) before culminating in a (hopefully) satisfying finale.

 

- If Craig is not back and you recast Bond, get an actor who is absolutely thrilled to be Bond and willing to do many pictures on an every-two-years-basis.  Even if it will take longer between the films, have him on a tighter leash and don´t create a situation in which he can demand directors to wait for.  You´re the producer, you decide what is right for the series, not a temporary element.

 

- The time for the rogue Bond must be over.  Also his questioning of why he wants to be a secret agent after all.  If he sees no sense in his choice of job he is not James Bond... but Jason Bourne.

 

- Travelogues these days wreak havoc on a budget, yes - but they are part of the Bond film history and give dimension to the importance of his missions.  Of course, a one-location film can be fun, too.  But don´t use Great Britain again for a very long time.  London is fine only for the expositional scenes between M, Moneypenny, Q and Bond.

 

- M, Moneypenny and Q... yes, you have great actors now for these roles.  But if these actors only want to return if they get a substantial amount of shooting days, resulting in making them part of the plot, then re-cast them with great character actors who enjoy their bit parts.  Bond stories are not about "Mission Impossible"-team efforts.  And you take away from Bond´s impact whenever you cut to M, Moneypenny and Q trying to fight the bad guys, too.  Damn, that´s why they employ secret agents: so they don´t have to do these things by themselves!  Field agents - desk seargents.  It´s as simple as that.

 

A lot of these touch upon the same broader point-- when making Bond movies, take stock of where the Bond series has just been, and where you would like it to go in the future. In other words, stop repeating the same tired plot devices and twists and emotional baggage. Too often recently, something will pop up in the film that makes me ask: "Didn't we see this already?" The smart blood scene in SP was basically a repeat of the chip inserted into his arm scene in CR. Tanner and Bond's entrance to Q's lab in SP was shot-for-shot the same scene as their entrance to the "new digs" in SF. Bond falling in love and wanting to leave the service for Madeline was a repeat of the same plot device in CR. TWINE, DAD, and CR all had a good girl really be bad, having fooled Bond the whole time (I know, Vesper doesn't really count). The M/Bond trust issues are getting tiresome.

 

In short: take some perspective when making the new film. We can't keep seeing the same stuff over and over again. 



#17 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:33 AM

Agreed on all your points.

 

And really - this smart blood device was introduced to at least sound intriguing... and then it lost its meaning very quickly.  Why, Mr. Mendes, why?



#18 DaveBond21

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:53 AM

A cowbell in the gunbarrel sequence music.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________



#19 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:58 AM

Hey, we already had Christopher Walken as a villain!



#20 MISALA1994

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:27 AM

Craig + Mendes + Shatterhand

Mendes is done...

#21 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:41 AM

A lot of these touch upon the same broader point-- when making Bond movies, take stock of where the Bond series has just been, and where you would like it to go in the future. In other words, stop repeating the same tired plot devices and twists and emotional baggage. Too often recently, something will pop up in the film that makes me ask: "Didn't we see this already?" The smart blood scene in SP was basically a repeat of the chip inserted into his arm scene in CR. Tanner and Bond's entrance to Q's lab in SP was shot-for-shot the same scene as their entrance to the "new digs" in SF. Bond falling in love and wanting to leave the service for Madeline was a repeat of the same plot device in CR. TWINE, DAD, and CR all had a good girl really be bad, having fooled Bond the whole time (I know, Vesper doesn't really count). The M/Bond trust issues are getting tiresome.

 

 

 

In short: take some perspective when making the new film. We can't keep seeing the same stuff over and over again. 

 

Yep, bang on! These are 'drawing board' mistakes made in the 'writer's room'. They desperately need new writing talent on Bond. I read far better ideas on CBN than i see in the movies and that must set off alarm bells ;)



#22 RMc2

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 12:25 PM

 

Craig + Mendes + Shatterhand

Mendes is done...

 

 

Hopefully!



#23 sharpshooter

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:07 PM

I would be incredibly surprised if Mendes came back. After two Bond films back to back I think he's exhausted. And I suspect he said all he wanted to with the character anyway.

#24 Hockey Mask

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:38 PM

Craig + Mendes + Shatterhand

Mendes is done...
See thread topic. "Suggestions I would like to see".

#25 dirtymind

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 09:11 PM

Colours. Not everything has to look yellowish.



#26 sharpshooter

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:40 AM

I'd like to see B25 (with Craig, Waltz etc. returning) see out the story arc they began with Spectre.

 

Take the tragic ending from OHMSS and move it to the pre-titles of B25. This is most probably the existing plan - it's a great inciting incident. Plus the more you hammer home that he's happily retired, the more impact the death has and they really did make it overtly clear he's retired - happily an ex-00. And of course Bond would be demanding he get his 00s back to avenge her, as was his obsession in Fleming's sequel to OHMSS.

 

Then use YOLT as the spine of the movie, keeping the narrative intact and using much of the dialogue where possible with a modernising pass, just like they did with CR.

 

Definitely keep the Garden of Death, but rethink the sword fight finale; works in the book because of Blofeld's large stature. So obviously it won't work for Waltz.

 

Keep the epilogue amnesia and island life

I basically agree with this outline. They can mix things up like they did with 2006's Casino Royale, but I'd keep the core beats of Fleming's You Only Live Twice. I think the time is right to use them. A lot of us have daydreamed about these concepts for a while now. It would give Craig's Bond an ending and look forward to the future at the same time.



#27 Pussfeller

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 05:10 AM

A theme song with a catchy tune. I can't even remember the Spectre theme.

 

Less of the MI6 crew. I'm tired of the "remote-control Bond" dynamic, where the action is constantly shifting between Bond and mission control. After the mission briefing, let Bond go out and have an adventure on his own. 

 

Involve Leiter more. Introduce him early in the second act, don't make his relationship with Bond too adversarial, and don't belabor the geopolitical angle. Just make Leiter a brother agent. 

 

If not Leiter, then let's have an old-fashioned "our man in X" type character, like Kerim Bey. 

 

One villain. No more, no less. SF and Spectre were both good in this regard, so let's not revert to the scattershot multi-villain dynamic of QOS. 

 

No Italy. Enough with the Italy. Set it in India, Russia, Argentina, or someplace we haven't seen in a while. And if the US is used, make it someplace NOT in Florida. Of the six films where Bond visits the USA, four of them involve southern Florida.



#28 sharpshooter

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 06:38 AM

Involve Leiter more. Introduce him early in the second act, don't make his relationship with Bond too adversarial, and don't belabor the geopolitical angle. Just make Leiter a brother agent. 

Agree. If this is Craig's last, I'm wanting Jeffrey Wright back in the mix. And judging by his recent social media post, it just may happen. 



#29 Greene's Driver

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:22 PM

Again I would like to see the Spang brothers (portrayed by Gary Oldman & Aidan Gillen) from DAF. Felix Leiter (Jeffrey Wright - if Craig is back) could also get a bigger part in the story. In the novel, he is a real help for Bond and not just the brave buddy as in most films.



#30 Pussfeller

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:32 AM

It's kind of odd that the Spang bros have never been used. 






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