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Did Dench Play Two Different Ms?


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#1 DavidJones

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 10:34 PM

In the Brosnan films, Dench's M seems cold and strict, but she's much less so in the Craig era.

 

In the paratext, they are also given different names (Barbara Mawdsley in the Goldeneye script, Olivia Mansfield on a Skyfall prop).

 

What does everyone else think?



#2 Dustin

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 11:09 PM

Two different persons. CR's version posted Bond in the 00-section while GE's takes the job of M as Bond is already 007. It's also implied that the M of the Craig years may have had a hand in recruiting him for SIS in the first place, perhaps even before his military service.

But I did not notice that big differences in terms of character. The main piece that sticks out is her part in SKYFALL, many intriguing facets turn up there, perhaps that's the part that really nails this version of M as a multilayered figure. Even TWINE with its plot making heavy use of her doesn't come close to SKYFALL.

#3 Mr_Wint

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 10:20 AM

It is the same actor, playing the same character, in two different universes.

 

Her real name is a well guarded secret. Bond figured out her real name in CR, so they had to change it for SF.



#4 hoagy

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 04:41 PM

Could be two different Judi Dench..es...from two different universes.  One, very kindly, passed into this universe for our entertainment pleasure.  Watch the Star Trek re-boot with the two Spocks conversing with each other -- it'll 'splain everything.



#5 S K Y F A L L

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 05:47 PM

It's the same M and the same Bond, if you tell me different I'll put my head in my pillow and cry while kicking and screaming.



#6 hilly

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 08:33 AM

It doesn't matter.

EON have happily acknowledged that having the same M in the Craig films completely screws with the timeline, but that they couldn't NOT have Dench in Casino Royale.

This is the same series of films that had Bond's wife murdered at the end of one film and then make no mention of it in the next movie.

 

Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the films.



#7 bribond

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 01:37 PM

I support the same character in different universes theory.  If JK Simmons appeared as Jonah Jameson in a different Spider Man series no one would complain.  Dench also gave a rebooted series a familiar face and I would argue that she played M much the same way, just her relationship with Craig's Bond was more maternal since she had helped develop this Bond whereas Brosnan's Bond was fully formed and already a veteran 00 when she took over the part in Goldeneye.

 

The precendence for this is of course the same Mi6 staff appeared in many Bond films previously even though the actor playing Bond changed.

 

I remember the name The Barbara Mawdsley from the Raymond Benson book "The Facts of Death", which never figured into the film series.



#8 When In Egypt

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:51 PM

James Bond is not a 'timeline' series.  The stories and characters essentially exist on a film-to-film basis.  

 

How does the character not age across five decades?  How does one M seem to employ an aged James Bond in one film and then recruit a young James Bond in the next?

 

That's movie magic, folks!  

 

Don't go looking for timelines where there aren't any.  Nothing depresses me more about Bond fandom than shoehorning explanations for everything where it simply isn't necessary.



#9 Dustin

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 03:12 PM

Flexible reality.

#10 sharpshooter

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 12:39 PM

Dench approached playing M the same, but the reboot makes the character seperate from the Brosnan era incarnation.

#11 When In Egypt

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 02:56 PM

I think that means she's just playing M.

 

The filmmakers aren't interested in continuity or timelines.  They're not important, and therefore they don't exist.  Craig's films seem to be the only ones with a continuing story so it makes sense for him to be aware of his four previous adventures and to reference them, but that's about it, really.

 

I honestly wouldn't worry about it, folks!

 

No 'universes', no new identities, just lots of stories about one man that happen to  have taken 50+ years to make!



#12 hoagy

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 10:26 PM

M is a shape-shifting (not to us, but to the people in the stories) time-traveler...maybe a friend of Dr. Who.



#13 DaveBond21

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 01:23 AM

Not according to Dench herself. She stated that was playing the same person and that Martin Campbell asked her to play the same character.

 

It was the continuity issues that they decided to ignore in favour of it being the same character.

 

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#14 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:50 AM

I remember that quote.  

 

IMO, the CraigBond-Era-M starts off grumpier and ends up more maternal than the BrosnanBond-Era-M.

 

Personally, I don´t care whether it´s the same character or not.  Whenever one Bond actor goes, it´s all a reset, starting an alternate reality again.

 

Would we ask ourselves if Lois Maxwell played the some Moneypenny when Connery left, came back, left again?  

 

Was she not recognizing that someone with the code name George Lazenby acted as if he actually had souvenirs from Connery´s missions in his drawer?

 

And after correcting this mistake in DAF - did she cover for Sir Roger´s behaviour thinking this is James Bond?

 

Is the whole series, maybe, a flashback from the Moneypenny Diaries, the not so trustworthy memories of a retired secretary who pictured the object of her infatuation in many shapes and forms, just like herself and her superior?



#15 Bucky

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 12:17 PM

Yes it was two different Ms.

 

Just like it was two different Aston Martin DB5s with ejector seats and machine guns.



#16 plankattack

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 05:01 PM

Yes she did play 2 Ms.

 

1 - vaguely competent head of SIS, leading a team of trained civil servants (GE, TND, CR)

 

2 - highly questionable decision-maker (TWINE, SF) not to mention surrounding herself with the most useless personal security team (QoS)

 

Either 2 different people or someone who too often takes a liquid lunch leading to reduced productivity in the afternoon.

 

:)



#17 DavidJones

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 06:03 PM

I suppose another way of asking is:

 

How are Dench's two Ms different?

 

She seems colder in GE, for example. She's the "evil queen of numbers".



#18 When In Egypt

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:06 AM

There's only one reason why someone might think Bond's identity, and the identities of the characters around him, might change throughout the series, and that reason is they are played by different actors.

 

That's it.

 

The characters themselves are unaware that they are played by actors and that they do not, in fact, really exist.  Therefore they are the same characters played by different people over time.  

 

Yes, Dench was playing a different M to Bernard Lee, but she was quite obviously the same M in all her Bond films.  I mean, it's right there on the screen!  Judi Dench as M!

 

The fact that she continued to play M in a Bond film which pretended none of the previous stories ever happened does not mean there are 'universes' or explanations to be found of multiple M's.  It means the filmmakers don't really give a monkeys toss about continuity or timelines, and that they going to do whatever they like from film to film.



#19 dtuba

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:21 PM

When In Egypt has it nailed.

 

Anyone looking for continuity in the Bond series is just asking for a lifetime of headaches. Timeline, schmimeline.


Edited by dtuba, 28 October 2016 - 09:21 PM.


#20 billy007

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 11:52 PM

Dennis O'Neil when explaining the different facets of Batman's character stated "Use continuity as a tool not a guide." This concept can be applied to the cinematic 007 as well.

Everything from Dr No to DAD existed at different points of  the same 007's career. 

Lazenby cleans out desk of stuff from other assignments.

Sir Sean goes after Blofield to avenge Tracy's murder.

Sir Roger visits Tracy's grave.

Felix states that Dalton's 007 "was married once but it was a long time ago"

PB's 007 tells Dame Judi's M where her"predecessor" kept his brandy

PB's 007 hesitates to answer Electra's "Have you ever lost someone?"

Casino Royale reboots everything.

So yes Dame Judi portrayed two different  M's   she played them both well.

Enjoy them both.