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Cutting back on the globetrotting


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#1 The Shark

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:54 PM

Quantum of Solace and SPECTRE both suffer from an excess of locations. A brooding travelogue interspersed by thinly justified set-pieces does not make for a compelling narrative, no matter how you dress it up. One of the things Casino Royale's second act and Skyfall effectively established was a sense of place. Keeping Bond fixed to Montenegro and the Far East/Britain let the story unfold naturally and allowed the locations to develop their own character on screen. Travelling by rote from A, to B to C, every 15 minutes in search of a MacGuffin is not only dull but it also wastes the astronomical resources the production has spent on securing and filming in these countries. 

 

For Bond 25, the writers should focus on a strong hook and from that let a simple story grow, encompassing a minimum of mileage and a couple of distinctive locales.



#2 DamnCoffee

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:07 PM

I would definitely prefer two main locations, possibly even one, rather than Bond traveling across the world, which I agree has became the norm.  Compared to the early Bond films, when Bond was confined to minimal locations (Dr. No, Thunderball, OHMSS, Live and Let Die etc) we tended to get a lot more breathing time in terms of plot and mood setting. Casino Royale's Montenegro section was great for that, but if I had one main problem with Skyfall and SPECTRE we only see the locations in terms of plot, which is a good thing, but I'd rather Bond stick around more, absorb the atmosphere, do some detective work. Rather him pop into Macau or Austria for a limited time.



#3 Mr_Wint

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:08 PM

I think this has been handled very well in the last two films. The fact that they actually take some time to show us Bond going between locations is definitely one of the best things that came out of Mendes direction.

The actual travelling (and checking into hotels) is typically one of the more INTERESTING parts of a Bond movie, so it makes little sense to remove it. This is when they can create a nice atmosphere with good music, and this is usually when Bond is being spied on or attacked.

How do you feel about the Star Wars opening crawl btw?

#4 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:14 PM

I also enjoy the globetrotting a lot.  Some of the most enjoyable 007 films feature that element.

 

However, I would also love a one location-film next time, just to shake things up again.  It would also cut down the costs, and it would not diminish the visual impact - if the cinematographer knew how (and were allowed) to give it a vibrant, colourful look.

 

A good, compelling story can be done in one or in many locations.



#5 mattjoes

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:17 PM

I think Quantum was the worst in this regard. Spectre handled it better, but no worse than Skyfall. These films need more scenes like Bond walking through Tokyo in YOLT or Moore arriving at the gunshop in TMWTGG. We only get very brief glimpses of people on the streets, barely learn anything about the culture of each city. Location wise, they're a bit too much about the business, too little about the pleasure.



#6 The Shark

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:19 PM

Just to clarify my point, I wasn't suggesting the writers remove scenes of Bond in flight, ordering a taxi or checking into a hotel. We all enjoy that. I just think the individual changes in location need to be less frequent.



#7 tdalton

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:24 PM

I'm all in favor of cutting back on the globe trotting. It would allow for a smaller budget and, assuming they're able to bring in a writer that knows what he's doing this time around, would allow for the possibility of a more focused story since there wouldn't be the need for Bond popping up in another part of the world every 20-25 minutes.

#8 Dustin

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 05:08 PM

I suppose it depends largely how locales are presented. With SPECTRE I had not the feeling Austria was really handled with enough atmosphere; a film needs a little time to breath for the atmosphere to unfold. For me the most impressive part here was White's hut, the rest all was a bit less than it could have been. Some snooping around at this mountain clinic might have helped there.

I could have done without the London finale - apart from the bridge symbolism, that was perhaps the best part of it - and would have liked more Morocco instead, or even Rome.

In general a film largely using fewer locales gives a different dynamic, true. But it also needs the right kind of story for this. It worked well with SKYFALL but I'm not sold it's always a good thing per se. If it works to bring the production bills down though, then I'm all for it.

#9 Harmsway

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 06:43 PM

I'd say stick to one or two locations (excluding the PTS, which can be set anywhere).

#10 glidrose

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 07:30 PM

These films need more scenes like Bond walking through Tokyo in YOLT or Moore arriving at the gunshop in TMWTGG. We only get very brief glimpses of people on the streets, barely learn anything about the culture of each city. Location wise, they're a bit too much about the business, too little about the pleasure.


Absolutely. In fact those two scenes you mention remain among my favorites travelogue moments in the series. Starting with LTK, the films have lost their sense of location. Okay, I really liked Hamburg in TND and Hong Kong & Cuba in DAD, but honestly, can anybody really say the films now do as good a job exploiting their locations as they used to in the days of YOLT, TMWTGG and MR?
 
 

I could have done without the London finale - apart from the bridge symbolism, that was perhaps the best part of it - and would have liked more Morocco instead, or even Rome.


Bridge symbolism?


In general a film largely using fewer locales gives a different dynamic, true. But it also needs the right kind of story for this. It worked well with SKYFALL but I'm not sold it's always a good thing per se. If it works to bring the production bills down though, then I'm all for it.


I liked the location-hopping in Moonraker - I don't think any Bond film prior to that used so many locations. But I tend to prefer that the producers stick to fewer locations. Reading the leaked Spectre script I thought there were too many locations and the film wouldn't do justice to all of them. I also felt the film was clearly structured around its locations.

#11 Dustin

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 08:13 PM

Bridge symbolism?

Bond choosing Madeleine over the Service, a symbolic scene you will have trouble staging anywhere else but in London.



Reading the leaked Spectre script I thought there were too many locations and the film wouldn't do justice to all of them. I also felt the film was clearly structured around its locations.

It sure was, I merely felt it didn't make use of all of them in the best possible manner. A few times we're just at point X to wait for the next action piece. While it really should feel like we are THERE. It worked for me with Mexico City, with most of Rome and Morocco. But I didn't feel London this time and the desert part also was a bit 'look at this - in a few we blow it up!'

#12 seawolfnyy

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 10:55 PM

I don't mind more locations as long as they serve the plot. In the case of Skyfall, every location seemed to have its importance to the overall story. In Spectre, I agree with some others that the story was servicing the locations, not the other way around. It almost seems like Rome, Morocco, London and Austria were all picked before the story was written and each part of the story was created to service that. Quantum of Solace had the same problem. The Tosca scene in Austria, while arguably the best in the film, really serves no purpose to the story other than to drag Mathis back into the fold. Why on Earth do the Quantum members have to have a meeting in the middle of Europe, when the plot they're carrying out is on the other side of the world in South America?



#13 glidrose

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 12:20 AM

Bridge symbolism?

Bond choosing Madeleine over the Service, a symbolic scene you will have trouble staging anywhere else but in London.



I would have staged it at a crossroads.




Reading the leaked Spectre script I thought there were too many locations and the film wouldn't do justice to all of them. I also felt the film was clearly structured around its locations.

It sure was, I merely felt it didn't make use of all of them in the best possible manner. A few times we're just at point X to wait for the next action piece. While it really should feel like we are THERE. It worked for me with Mexico City, with most of Rome and Morocco. But I didn't feel London this time and the desert part also was a bit 'look at this - in a few we blow it up!'


Actually, Rome didn't work for me. As I said in my review posted elsewhere, Rome was wasted. Had the same feeling about China in Skyfall. Whereas Morocco and the desert worked for me even if the sequences add nothing to the plot.

#14 tdalton

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:35 PM

Why on Earth do the Quantum members have to have a meeting in the middle of Europe, when the plot they're carrying out is on the other side of the world in South America?


I always took this as a means to show that Quantum was an organization with global reach, not just as a means to force the action back to Europe after we'd already spent some time in South America. While, yes, the individual villainous scheme that is central to Quantum of Solace is based in South America, that's not where all of Quantum's resources are being pooled. We know, just from the two films featuring the organization, that the also had dealings in Africa and Europe, and some of their members were fairly high-ranking members of government, such as Guy Haines, who probably wouldn't be able to just hop on a plane and head to South America without someone noticing it, so I'd say that the European meeting was probably mostly a logistical thing that allowed them a place to meet in plain sight while also being a somewhat central location that allowed for most members to make the trip easily.

It makes sense, at least to me, to have had the meeting somewhere in Europe since I'd imagine that a good portion of the Quantum members, especially the high-ranking ones like Mr. White and Guy Haines, hail from there. Wherever it was going to be held, though, someone was going to have to travel a good distance to make it. In this instance, that someone happened to be Greene.

#15 New Digs

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:40 PM

I think Spectre wasted some locations. I don't think QoS did. The latter evoked a sense of the audience and Bond being in the locations for me, whereas Spectre seemed all about locations as window dressing. I don't think the photography helped in Spectre either. I have seen the film twice now and it is way to dark. 


Edited by New Digs, 20 November 2015 - 04:43 PM.


#16 tdalton

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:45 PM

I think Spectre wasted some locations. I don't think QoS did. The latter evoked a sense of the audience and Bond being in the locations for me, whereas Spectre seemed all about locations as window dressing. 

 

I can't speak to how SPECTRE handled its locations, but I would definitely agree regarding Quantum of Solace. I didn't feel like the locations there were rushed or wasted in any way.  Yes, the Tosca scene was rather short, but it was only meant to show the Quantum meeting and it served its purpose and also injected a little glamour into a film that had been, to that point, more on the gritty side in terms of its look and feel. 



#17 New Digs

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 05:08 PM

 

I think Spectre wasted some locations. I don't think QoS did. The latter evoked a sense of the audience and Bond being in the locations for me, whereas Spectre seemed all about locations as window dressing. 

 

I can't speak to how SPECTRE handled its locations, but I would definitely agree regarding Quantum of Solace. I didn't feel like the locations there were rushed or wasted in any way.  Yes, the Tosca scene was rather short, but it was only meant to show the Quantum meeting and it served its purpose and also injected a little glamour into a film that had been, to that point, more on the gritty side in terms of its look and feel. 

 

 

Me neither, and I love the intrigue created by the Tosca location. 



#18 Vauxhall

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 10:24 PM

In terms of actual distance travelled, SPECTRE must be towards the lower end of things (with the exception of Mexico). It bothers me a little that the past two films have both ended in Britain, where MI6 are not really supposed to operate.

#19 DamnCoffee

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 10:41 PM

In terms of actual distance travelled, SPECTRE must be towards the lower end of things (with the exception of Mexico). It bothers me a little that the past two films have both ended in Britain, where MI6 are not really supposed to operate.

 

I dunno, I really like the symmetry of Skyfall and SPECTRE both climaxing with two of Bonds most treasured places being destroyed, but I do want London to be featured a lot less next time round. I'm fine with a few scenes throughout the movie with the old team but other than that, I'd rather we got back to the excitment of Bond traveling again.



#20 tdalton

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 11:07 PM

It bothers me a little that the past two films have both ended in Britain, where MI6 are not really supposed to operate.

 

That's been one of the things that has bothered me about the Mendes films.  London features far too heavily in both, especially considering, as you said, that Bond really isn't supposed to be operating there. 



#21 Harmsway

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 02:14 AM

It was nice in SKYFALL, but is overkill in SPECTRE.

#22 The Shark

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 02:41 AM

SPECTRE cheapens a lot of things that were fairly unique to Skyfall.



#23 Dustin

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 07:43 AM

Because they tried to make it SKYFALL II where they would have better made it its own.

#24 Professor Pi

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 11:19 AM

A decade and a half ago, I remember articles pining for a Bond movie to be a detective story located only in England.  But with Skyfall/Spectre, that seems to have sated that desire.

 

Quantum of Solace's locations serve the environmental aspects of the story, as well as Quantum's reach.  LTK suffered from too few locations by contrast.  I'd rather have too many than not enough.  About three is ideal (I think SP has five.)

 

In both SF and SP, it seems like these locations don't have many people there.  I especially got this feeling with the Shanghai scenes, some of which were shot at Pinewood! 

 

For SPECTRE, the Mexico location was perfect.  Really set the tone and all 1500 extras really paid off for that.  I liked the Swiss Alps too because the original script for QoS had a climax in Switzerland, so it's nice symmetry to see Mr. White there.  Rome was a bit of excessive globetrotting, but they wanted to feature a car chase there.  Morocco makes sense from the crater/volcano callback they wanted, and London for the symbolism, both in Bond's choice and losing another 'home' structure. 

 

I'm just getting really tired of deserts in Bond films now.  I'm ready for some water in Bond 25.



#25 The Shark

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 06:41 PM

A tropical/sub-tropical rainforest would be something we haven't seen since Puerto Rico doubled for Cuba in GE (the Eden Project in DAD doesn't really count).



#26 Dustin

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 07:22 PM

It would perhaps be time for another story with a maritime element, something to feature sailing and/or diving and maybe also an island of a remote or mysterious nature. There was a bit of it in SKYFALL but not enough for my taste.

#27 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 07:34 PM

The globe trotting is a major part of what has made past Bond movies so re-watchable. But of course it helps if the locations support the story, rather than being crowbarred in for the sake of glamour.

 

TBH i could certainly do with the next movie not featuring London at all - it's turning into Spooks.



#28 Gobi-1

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 03:15 AM

It would perhaps be time for another story with a maritime element, something to feature sailing and/or diving and maybe also an island of a remote or mysterious nature. There was a bit of it in SKYFALL but not enough for my taste.

 

It would be nice to see Craig's Bond in his Naval Commander's uniform. We haven't seen that since Tomorrow Never Dies.



#29 DaveBond21

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 05:48 AM

 

Why on Earth do the Quantum members have to have a meeting in the middle of Europe, when the plot they're carrying out is on the other side of the world in South America?


I always took this as a means to show that Quantum was an organization with global reach, not just as a means to force the action back to Europe after we'd already spent some time in South America. While, yes, the individual villainous scheme that is central to Quantum of Solace is based in South America, that's not where all of Quantum's resources are being pooled. We know, just from the two films featuring the organization, that the also had dealings in Africa and Europe, and some of their members were fairly high-ranking members of government, such as Guy Haines, who probably wouldn't be able to just hop on a plane and head to South America without someone noticing it, so I'd say that the European meeting was probably mostly a logistical thing that allowed them a place to meet in plain sight while also being a somewhat central location that allowed for most members to make the trip easily.

It makes sense, at least to me, to have had the meeting somewhere in Europe since I'd imagine that a good portion of the Quantum members, especially the high-ranking ones like Mr. White and Guy Haines, hail from there. Wherever it was going to be held, though, someone was going to have to travel a good distance to make it. In this instance, that someone happened to be Greene.

 

 

Agreed. Austria is geographically quite central in Europe and so makes for a good meeting point, ensuring nobody from Quantum based in Europe needs to travel more than 2 hours.

 

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