108 replies to this topic

[Surrie]

The more I think about it the weirder it is for me.  SPECTRE builds up Blofeld and a relationship between Bond and Madeleine.  He symbolically throws away his gun for her, tells Q to do one last thing for him, drives off with Madeleine.

 

Sure, he could come back not mentioning her at all.  But it was different with previous Bond girls - none made Bond actually want to quit the service before (Tracy being the exception).  To treat her as just another girl who gets forgotten in the next film would be as weird as recasting Blofeld.  Especially after tieing all the previous villains together with Spectre.

 

I just can´t get over it.  Mendes must have planned to make or at least prepare a OHMSS-ending for the beginning of BOND 25 (hence the stricken last line) - but EON/SONY decided against it late in the game.

 

And if Craig returns and no continuity is at least tried, it will be a major disappointment for me.

 

I'm with you on this one - I feel as though it's been left wide open for Mendes to slope into an OHMSS theme for BOND 25. Usually, I would champion the fact that the Bond girl is not mentioned again and that we can happily imagine what they got up to after his mission. However, if EON and Mendes decide not to continue down this road we have seen in Craig's era then I will be shocked.

[DaveBond21]

These are fair points, but I still think that the average 2018 cinema-goer will fail to remember that James Bond had a slightly more meaningful romance in the last adventure back in 2015. Indeed, most will already have forgotten.

[Surrie]

But when the hubbub starts to slip into the mainstream and the trailers are released we will soon be reminded!

[Dustin]

Today it's all about how you market something on social media. You can easily create a buzz with a few simple hints in pre-production and the trailers, the avalanche creates itself then. Even Joe Average can be made to remember Madeleine, that's no problem any longer.

[Surrie]

Today it's all about how you market something on social media. You can easily create a buzz with a few simple hints in pre-production and the trailers, the avalanche creates itself then. Even Joe Average can be made to remember Madeleine, that's no problem any longer.

 

Perfectly summised. 

[tdalton]

I would think Madeleine would be easier to remember than a lot of the other Bond girls.  Lea Seydoux was superb in the role, one of the best Bond girls we've had in a long time.  That's especially impressive considering the script did Seydoux zero favors.   

 

I would love to see EON bring her back for Bond 25, but not simply to be killed off in the PTS to give Bond the fuel he needs to get back in the game and go after Blofeld.  There are plenty of ways to do that while keeping her alive, and hopefully EON realizes that. 

[Guy Haines]

I would think Madeleine would be easier to remember than a lot of the other Bond girls.  Lea Seydoux was superb in the role, one of the best Bond girls we've had in a long time.  That's especially impressive considering the script did Seydoux zero favors.   
 
I would love to see EON bring her back for Bond 25, but not simply to be killed off in the PTS to give Bond the fuel he needs to get back in the game and go after Blofeld.  There are plenty of ways to do that while keeping her alive, and hopefully EON realizes that.

Agree completely with this. A Bond film in which the leading lady and chief villain are played by the same people as in the previous film would be unusual - unprecedented - but the Craig era has broken the rules about Bond many times, so why not? Whether Lea Seydoux and Christoph Waltz would want to return, or would be able to, is a different thing altogether.

[Surrie]

 

I would think Madeleine would be easier to remember than a lot of the other Bond girls.  Lea Seydoux was superb in the role, one of the best Bond girls we've had in a long time.  That's especially impressive considering the script did Seydoux zero favors.   
 
I would love to see EON bring her back for Bond 25, but not simply to be killed off in the PTS to give Bond the fuel he needs to get back in the game and go after Blofeld.  There are plenty of ways to do that while keeping her alive, and hopefully EON realizes that.

Agree completely with this. A Bond film in which the leading lady and chief villain are played by the same people as in the previous film would be unusual - unprecedented - but the Craig era has broken the rules about Bond many times, so why not? Whether Lea Seydoux and Christoph Waltz would want to return, or would be able to, is a different thing altogether.

 

 

I'm glad we are in agreement. I think Seydoux made the film what it was - she carried it in fact! She reminded me a lot of Natalya in GoldenEye and that is a film I love! The Bond girl for me is a HUGE part of a Bond film and I'm glad to see that EON remembered this and utilised it in SPECTRE. I've felt that the Bond girls in Craig's era so far had been lacklustre and quickly forgotten, but Swann is memorable. Her character has background (which needs to be explored further), she is brave, willing to walk away from Bond for his sake, and a challenge for him. It would be a big waste if she doesn't return or is killed off imminently. 

[AMC Hornet]

Has anyone asked this one yet?

 

Why was there a boat left under the old MI6 bldg, which was about to be imploded?

 

There was no indication that Blofeld's men were going to use it; in fact, it appeared to be identical to the one Bond and Tanner used earlier, so it was probably MoD property.

 

A: It was convenient because it was necessary, which is the definition of contrived (and really, what in Bond films isn't?).

[SecretAgentFan]

Mostly convenient and contrived, I´d say.

 

If we were actually supposed to believe that it was the boat Bond and Tanner used earlier... how did they leave?  And did Q always come by boat as well?  If not why did Bond and Tanner have to take the boat?  To beat traffic?  Or did they just enjoy a nice boat ride together, with no life wests this time... ;-)

[sharpshooter]

I'd say partly to show the audience 'C's new digs', which was to replace the old way of working.

[mattjoes]

When M confronts Denbigh at the CNS building, he explains he formed an alliance with someone who had the power and the will to do what had to be done. He talks like a crusader, not a criminal, so we're left to infer he expects Spectre to use the Nine eyes program in a radical, but ultimately beneficial way for the world. That seems to match Blofeld's comment that Denbigh is "a visionary, like me". However, in the Spectre meeting in Rome, among the business interests mentioned are counterfeit pharmaceuticals and human trafficking. That doesn't make the organization sound like it's pursuing any idealistic goals. Are we meant to assume Blofeld's mention of something terrible giving birth to something wonderful refers to the fact Spectre's illegal activities funded the Nine Eyes program? Or was Denbigh manipulated and Blofeld lied about his being a visionary?

[SecretAgentFan]

Blofeld=bad

 

Denbigh=stupid

[AMC Hornet]

Has anyone asked this one yet?

 

Why was there a boat left under the old MI6 bldg, which was about to be imploded?

 

There was no indication that Blofeld's men were going to use it; in fact, it appeared to be identical to the one Bond and Tanner used earlier, so it was probably MoD property.

 

A: It was convenient because it was necessary, which is the definition of contrived (and really, what in Bond films isn't?).

And another thing...

 

If there was a boat dock under the old MI6 bldg, why was Q's 'fishing boat' in TWINE being built in a bay on the fourth floor?

[Dustin]

If there was a boat dock under the old MI6 bldg, why was Q's 'fishing boat' in TWINE being built in a bay on the fourth floor?

Now that one is easy, in that universe Q was just getting ready to bolt the 'Sea Harrier Conversion Kit' ™ to the ugly thing...

[Guy Haines]

When M confronts Denbigh at the CNS building, he explains he formed an alliance with someone who had the power and the will to do what had to be done. He talks like a crusader, not a criminal, so we're left to infer he expects Spectre to use the Nine eyes program in a radical, but ultimately beneficial way for the world. That seems to match Blofeld's comment that Denbigh is "a visionary, like me". However, in the Spectre meeting in Rome, among the business interests mentioned are counterfeit pharmaceuticals and human trafficking. That doesn't make the organization sound like it's pursuing any idealistic goals. Are we meant to assume Blofeld's mention of something terrible giving birth to something wonderful refers to the fact Spectre's illegal activities funded the Nine Eyes program? Or was Denbigh manipulated and Blofeld lied about his being a visionary?

He wouldn't have been the first to be taken in by ESB. Remember "Professor/Doktor" Metz in Diamonds Are Forever - he thought the space laser weapon was all about forcing the world to disarm - "a committed idealist to peace" is how the real Willard Whyte describes him. Blofeld, of course, had other ideas about that weapon, and only at the very end does Metz realise the truth about his "ally".

Personally, I think Denbigh is a bureaucrat but, if such a thing is possible, an extreme one who finds democracy a nuisance, getting in the way of the important business of governing. He has jumped at the chance of total surveillance and couldn't care less who provides the backing - and maybe he does think the world is better run by a powerful, ruthless but shadowy organisation that doesn't have to account to anyone or anything except itself.

[AMC Hornet]

When Bond asks Blohauser what Denbigh gets out of it Blohauser says "Nothing - he's a visionary like myself."

 

Cue Carver, saying that for starting a war he gets "nothing - just exclusive broadcasting rights in China for the next hundred years."

 

Yes, Denbigh is a visionary like Blofeld, meaning he's also ambitious, greedy, ruthless and egotistical.

 

"Characteristic ambition."

[Dustin]

Denbigh is willing to make South Africa (if memory serves?) change its mind about his club by means of a terror attack*; since it's him calling the shots on this scheme this Nine Eyes thingy is in fact nothing else but a protection racket.

*The real howler here is not that it's bloody obvious Denbigh is behind it all; even the most clichéed incompetent fat redneck CIA official Hollywood could come up with would immediately look at Denbigh and find his lack of surprise disturbing. No, the real deal breaker here is the obvious conclusion: you are either a member of the club or the club watches with a discrete smile as your people get blown to pieces. This leads directly to the question whether it's the club that is the real problem...

[Guy Haines]

Denbigh is willing to make South Africa (if memory serves?) change its mind about his club by means of a terror attack*; since it's him calling the shots on this scheme this Nine Eyes thingy is in fact nothing else but a protection racket.
*The real howler here is not that it's bloody obvious Denbigh is behind it all; even the most clichéed incompetent fat redneck CIA official Hollywood could come up with would immediately look at Denbigh and find his lack of surprise disturbing. No, the real deal breaker here is the obvious conclusion: you are either a member of the club or the club watches with a discrete smile as your people get blown to pieces. This leads directly to the question whether it's the club that is the real problem...

Spot on Dustin. It is a global protection racket that Blofeld is trying to set up - "Nice little country you've got here. Pity if its capital city got blown up."