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[Spoiler]: Use of classic Bond "life events" in modern series and


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#1 00Kevin

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 01:41 AM

Any bond fan will notice how the Craig films, and SPECTRE in particular, are reworking elements directly from the classic bond stories. After casino royale came out the producers said that they arn't going to be doing any remakes of classic bond films, but they are apparently okay with reworking some classic story elements into an original script. It's kinda like how in the batman comics there are certain life events that are going to make it into any batman film reboot series like his parents death, meeting the joker, the fall of harvey dent. James Bond has similar life events which come from the books and which we first saw manifested in the sixties era films and which are now being experienced by Craig's bond, albeit wrapped in a whole new story. We all can tell the obvious ones right away: spectre, blofeld, fighting a huge henchmen on a train, Bond's day of the dead disguise as a reference to Baron Samedi, return of gadgets, the db5, etc. And this isn't the first craig bond film to do this kind of thing (see strawberry fields death in qos)

But there's another one. It's a BIG one, and I think only the sharpest most devoted bond fans will pick this one up on first viewing.

Let's think about this:

In (On Her Majesties Secret Service), Bond meets with a man with criminal connections (Draco). With a lifetime of crime behind him, he has only one major concern in his life: the well being of his daughter (Tracy). Knowing that bond is in need of information regarding spectre and blofeld, the man makes a deal. Help him in return for bond going after his daughter. Bond is able to continue his quest to find blofeld and later falls in love with the man's daughter.

Now replace those parentheses with SPECTRE, Mr. White and Madeleine Swann. The only detail which doesn't match is that in OHMSS Draco asks bond to marry his daughter, whereas in spectre Mr. White merely asks bond to find and protect his daughter. In both cases, the relationship between bond and this family is essential to the plot and bond's quest to find blofeld.

Now, devoted fans might also remember what happened at the end of ohmss:

Bond marries the daughter (Tracy), but she is murdered minutes later by the jealous, defeated blofeld.

This did not happen in spectre because it is going to happen in bond 25. Blofeld was left scarred by Bond in SPECTRE and eyed vengefully as Bond and the girl embraced and walked off into the sunset if you will. All this stuff about this being Craig's last bond film is rubbish because the story has only just gotten started, he's probably just saying that so people will really have a sense that this is a one of a kind experience and they gotta see it and after it makes a ton of money he'll renegotiate his contract. This is exactly like what happened when EON lost Connery for OHMSS and left the middle part of the spectre trilogy and one of the most important parts of bonds life as an almost stand alone film with a different actor who people had never heard of. Wilson and Barbara have learned from the mistakes of the past. They finally put all those legal problems of the past with mcclory behind them and they aren't about to repeat what happened to connery and ohmss. Craig will come back and bond 25 will be blofeld's revenge.

Thanks for seeing what I had to say. Sorry if its too much of fan boy mess, I just saw spectre last night and I feel like Im twelve years old again. really had an itch to tell what was on my mind. I have loved bond since I was a kid watching them in the ninties and loved when eon brought back the classic organization twist in casino royale. I always loved the character of Mr. White and what he potentially represented for the series. To bring him back and have him be a modern incarnation of draco really satisfied the fan boy in me. As did the whole revelation that spectre was behind casino royale and the other films. And there's so much more about this film to love. I just really had the most fun I ever had watching a bond film and can't wait to see it again with my buddy tomorrow.
Oops looks like my title got cut off. It's suppose to be [Spoiler]: Use of classic Bond "life events" in modern series and what it terms us. Aka Mr. White and Madeline Swann are Draco and Tracy

#2 Double Naught spy

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 02:02 PM

Good theory, 00Kevin.  Like you, I made the connection between Tracy and Madeleine Swann.  But your comparison between Draco and White totally went over my head.  

 

Who said Bond and Swann aren't married by the end of the film?  As Sir Paul once sang: "In this ever changing world in which we live in."  So maybe tossing one's gun into the Thames, sparing the life of the villain du jour, and driving off with your partner in a fifty-year-old antique car equals the latest definition of 'marriage.'  If Bond and Swann say they are married, who are we to say otherwise?  (Tongue firmly planted in my cheek here)

 

Regarding Craig coming back:  The first thing I thought of as I left the theater was, "They've just got to get him back!"  My second thought was, "This whole dust-up about Craig being disgruntled is just a phony, well-crafted marketing ploy designed to make me and the rest of the audience have that exact reaction at the end of SPECTRE."   As much as I don't like being manipulated, I sort of hope this is the case, because Craig's hissy-fit made him sound like an ungrateful jerk, IMO.

 

As for referencing previous films:  I got the distinct impression that both EON and Blofeld were too embarrassed by QOS to mention it.  The QUANTUM organization was only briefly mentioned (you really have to be listening for it.)  What really made it obvious that EON just wants us to forget about QOS was when Blofeld was taunting Bond with pin-ups of Vesper, Silva, etc.  Here's a guy who has just bragged that he's "the architect" of all of Bond's "pain," but he cannot be bothered to show a photo of Strawberry Fields or Mathis?   The failure to embrace QOS was so obvious, that it made me wince.


Edited by Double Naught spy, 07 November 2015 - 02:04 PM.


#3 Vauxhall

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 02:25 PM

The original last line of the film would have cemented that Madeleine/Tracy connection even further ;)

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#4 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 02:39 PM

I quite like these ideas and the parallels certainly didn't go unnoticed. I suspect the OHMSS/YOLT route of the books will now be explored in the next film (or two?). I wish that line had been thrown in at the end - I was actually expecting it might come up. It's too bad TWINE has been used as a title as it could have served the next film even better. I suppose All the Time in the World could work to cover that story, or, if it's not too tasteless to say this, if Her Majesty should pass before the next film comes out, maybe On His Majesty's Secret Service could be considered, though I doubt it.

#5 00Kevin

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 04:46 PM

The original last line of the film would have cemented that Madeleine/Tracy connection even further ;)

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Wow thats really interesting about the line. I'm glad they didn't use it because it would have been too obvious imo, though causal viewers wouldn't get the connection.

I thought of another major life event or idea for the books. Blofeld is.known by another name until he is revealed late in the story. Just like yolt

#6 deth

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:05 PM

The original last line of the film would have cemented that Madeleine/Tracy connection even further ;)

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Wow, I wish they'd used that. As mentioned, casuals wouldn't have gotten the connection... and hardcore fans would have probably known... but it doesn't *guarantee* what comes next. They could always change it.



#7 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:28 PM

The original last line of the film would have cemented that Madeleine/Tracy connection even further ;)

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I wonder why they deleted that.  All the connotations are in place anyway.  And it would have added that extra poignancy to the ending.



#8 Double Naught spy

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 05:18 PM

Does anyone else think that Blofeld's meteorite crater base in SPECTRE was meant to be a 'more realistic' version of (and homage to) his hollowed-out volcano base in YOLT?



#9 Vauxhall

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 05:23 PM

Does anyone else think that Blofeld's meteorite crater base in SPECTRE was meant to be a 'more realistic' version of (and homage to) his hollowed-out volcano base in YOLT?

 

I'm not sure about more realistic, but I guess there was a vague nod to YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE there. Having said that, it's equally possible they just liked the idea of putting a super-sophisticated facility in this great natural location they found when scouting.



#10 Pushkin

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:32 PM

The original last line of the film would have cemented that Madeleine/Tracy connection even further ;)

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I was waiting for that line... and almost whispered it to my wife towards the end of the film. 

 

Not sure what the final box office will be for SPECTRE but I really hope they continue the story for what might be Craig's swan song.


 

The original last line of the film would have cemented that Madeleine/Tracy connection even further ;)

Spoiler

 

I wonder why they deleted that.  All the connotations are in place anyway.  And it would have added that extra poignancy to the ending.

 

I never read the leaked script.... that was the last line then? If so, my guess is that perhaps EON wanted to hedge their bets just in case SPECTRE does not work out.



#11 Vauxhall

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:42 PM

Yes, that was the last line. I think they may even have filmed it.

#12 Harmsway

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:48 PM

It might have been cut for a few different reasons. The line may have interrupted the rhythm of the scene, for one thing.

#13 PrinceKamalKhan

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 06:02 PM

Any bond fan will notice how the Craig films, and SPECTRE in particular, are reworking elements directly from the classic bond stories. After casino royale came out the producers said that they arn't going to be doing any remakes of classic bond films, but they are apparently okay with reworking some classic story elements into an original script. It's kinda like how in the batman comics there are certain life events that are going to make it into any batman film reboot series like his parents death, meeting the joker, the fall of harvey dent. James Bond has similar life events which come from the books and which we first saw manifested in the sixties era films and which are now being experienced by Craig's bond, albeit wrapped in a whole new story. We all can tell the obvious ones right away: spectre, blofeld, fighting a huge henchmen on a train, Bond's day of the dead disguise as a reference to Baron Samedi, return of gadgets, the db5, etc. And this isn't the first craig bond film to do this kind of thing (see strawberry fields death in qos)

But there's another one. It's a BIG one, and I think only the sharpest most devoted bond fans will pick this one up on first viewing.

Let's think about this:

In (On Her Majesties Secret Service), Bond meets with a man with criminal connections (Draco). With a lifetime of crime behind him, he has only one major concern in his life: the well being of his daughter (Tracy). Knowing that bond is in need of information regarding spectre and blofeld, the man makes a deal. Help him in return for bond going after his daughter. Bond is able to continue his quest to find blofeld and later falls in love with the man's daughter.

Now replace those parentheses with SPECTRE, Mr. White and Madeleine Swann. The only detail which doesn't match is that in OHMSS Draco asks bond to marry his daughter, whereas in spectre Mr. White merely asks bond to find and protect his daughter. In both cases, the relationship between bond and this family is essential to the plot and bond's quest to find blofeld.

Now, devoted fans might also remember what happened at the end of ohmss:

Bond marries the daughter (Tracy), but she is murdered minutes later by the jealous, defeated blofeld.

This did not happen in spectre because it is going to happen in bond 25. Blofeld was left scarred by Bond in SPECTRE and eyed vengefully as Bond and the girl embraced and walked off into the sunset if you will. All this stuff about this being Craig's last bond film is rubbish because the story has only just gotten started, he's probably just saying that so people will really have a sense that this is a one of a kind experience and they gotta see it and after it makes a ton of money he'll renegotiate his contract. This is exactly like what happened when EON lost Connery for OHMSS and left the middle part of the spectre trilogy and one of the most important parts of bonds life as an almost stand alone film with a different actor who people had never heard of. Wilson and Barbara have learned from the mistakes of the past. They finally put all those legal problems of the past with mcclory behind them and they aren't about to repeat what happened to connery and ohmss. Craig will come back and bond 25 will be blofeld's revenge.

Thanks for seeing what I had to say. Sorry if its too much of fan boy mess, I just saw spectre last night and I feel like Im twelve years old again. really had an itch to tell what was on my mind. I have loved bond since I was a kid watching them in the ninties and loved when eon brought back the classic organization twist in casino royale. I always loved the character of Mr. White and what he potentially represented for the series. To bring him back and have him be a modern incarnation of draco really satisfied the fan boy in me. As did the whole revelation that spectre was behind casino royale and the other films. And there's so much more about this film to love. I just really had the most fun I ever had watching a bond film and can't wait to see it again with my buddy tomorrow.
Oops looks like my title got cut off. It's suppose to be [Spoiler]: Use of classic Bond "life events" in modern series and what it terms us. Aka Mr. White and Madeline Swann are Draco and Tracy

 

An enjoyable read. I got in touch with my inner 12 year old fan boy self the other night when I first saw it and they revealed than the main villain was indeed a rebooted Blofeld replete with the white cat and showing how he got the scar Donald Pleasance's Blofeld would later sport in YOLT.

 

The idea of White as Draco and Madeleine as Tracy is an interesting one although IMHO, Vesper should remain the great love of the Craig Bond's life.