22 replies to this topic

[carddoug]

I've always wanted hear other people's opinions. I was watching Goldeneye the other night and everytime I see it I can't help to think of Timothy dalton as bond. I think it would've been my favorite if that was the case.

So is there one movie in series that you wish you could replace the actor who plays bond for one of the other six?

Edited by carddoug, 10 August 2015 - 08:02 PM.

[Single-O-Seven]

A lot of people might say Connery over Lazenby for OHMSS. But I'm from the school of thought that Lazenby would have been a better choice to come back for DAF over Connery. I wish it had happened, but only if it meant a very different DAF would be the result. A serious story that adapted aspects of the novel more closely, while doing justice to the end of OHMSS with Bond gritting his teeth over Tracy's death, and seeking retribution against Blofeld AND Bunt.

 

I would love to hear from those who think Connery should have been in OHMSS. I fear we would have got a very different film, more in line with YOLT in the way it handled the original material, while starring a bored Connery who would have wished he was somewhere else.

[tdalton]

I would love to hear from those who think Connery should have been in OHMSS. I fear we would have got a very different film, more in line with YOLT in the way it handled the original material, while starring a bored Connery who would have wished he was somewhere else.

 

As someone who would have liked to have seen Connery in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, I guess the hope that I would have held out for in terms of his participation and interest level would have been that he might have been inspired by the fact that the material was much stronger than it was for You Only Live Twice, as well as the fact that a lot of the film was done in a singular, fairly isolated location, which wouldn't (I wouldn't think, anyway) have allowed for the mass hysteria that he was engulfed by for You Only Live Twice.

 

Regardless, I think that the film would have benefited from an established Bond in the role, whether they had done with Connery or held off on it until sometime in the middle of Moore's tenure.  For me, it just doesn't work as an introduction to a new Bond.

[Ytadel]

I would have loved to have seen the fit, cool, and badass Sean Connery from Dr. No thru Thunderball in OHMSS. However, I would not have any desire to see the out of shape and disinterested Connery from Diamonds Are Forever in OHMSS. If I had to pick between DAF-mode Connery for OHMSS and Lazenby for DAF, I'd take the later, definitely.

[jaguar007]

Agreed, I would have loved to see Connery as in FRWL in OHMSS much for curiosity factor.

 

I also would have loved to see Lazenby in OHMSS. Even though I love Craig in CR, I would also have liked to see Dalton tackle that film.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I've always wanted hear other people's opinions. I was watching Goldeneye the other night and everytime I see it I can't help to think of Timothy dalton as bond. I think it would've been my favorite if that was the case.

So is there one movie in series that you wish you could replace the actor who plays bond for one of the other six?

Some fans dream of Connery in OHMSS:

 

http://th07.devianta...df7-d4l5aqb.jpg

 

 

 

Others dream of Lazenby in DAF:

http://image.tmdb.or...RNu09z02VNM.jpg

 

 

 

Speaking for myself, I like yourself carddoug, dream of Dalton in GE:

http://img09.deviant...cup-d8ov92k.jpg

 

I also dream of Dalton in FYEO:

https://iansadler.fi...y-dalton-2.jpeg


 

Even though I love Craig in CR, I would also have liked to see Dalton tackle that film.

 

Agreed. That idea intrigues me also:

 

 

[Simon]

If the question is more about whether the finished film would have suited a different actor, then;

 

Roger Moore in DAF

 

If the question is more about whether a different actor Should have been employed to create a different film, then;

 

George Lazenby in YOLT, DAF and LALD.  (Happy to have Moore coming in at Gg)

[trevanian]

Dalton in FYEO is ideal age-wise and also in terms of tone, if you ignore the awkwardly silly resolution to the PTS.

 

Alternately either Dalton or Brosnan doing CASINO as their FINAL film, because I've often thought the Vesper story as Bond's last chance to get out rather than an early career-shaping moment would be something impressive for a mature actor to play, especially if you just end the movie on Bond's face as he sits in M's office, awaiting the next assignment with more resignation than anticipation on his face. Some real character growth, instead of paying lip service to same.

[Hansen]

 

Alternately either Dalton or Brosnan doing CASINO as their FINAL film, because I've often thought the Vesper story as Bond's last chance to get out rather than an early career-shaping moment would be something impressive for a mature actor to play, especially if you just end the movie on Bond's face as he sits in M's office, awaiting the next assignment with more resignation than anticipation on his face. Some real character growth, instead of paying lip service to same.

I would have loved that. The story would have needed a re-write. But I would love see a Bond film with an older Bond (and playing it). Somewhere in his 50s or even 60s.

There may still a chance for Pierce or even Tim...

[Dustin]

Actually, Casino Royale, the book, wasn't a 'Bond begins' kind of story. The character - what character there is - is shown as seasoned and at peace with his fate already (not prissy and whiny as people often confuse with matureness).

'One day, and he accepted the fact, he would be brought to his knees by love or by luck. When that happened he knew that he too would be branded with the deadly question-mark he recognized so often in others, the promise to pay before you have lost: the acceptance of fallibility.'*

This is the thought process of a seasoned character, mirroring that of its creator at the time, 44 turning on 45 then. There is no indication of a rookie agent here; in fact in this first book Bond seems the most adult, the most rounded character until perhaps You Only Live Twice. This passage also sums up the whole novel, we see Bond indeed brought down by both, luck and love, and if Casino Royale was a stand alone novel nothing would be missing, Bond's entire persona is contained in this nutshell. It's easy to imagine this book with a much older protagonist. I daresay it would have been a far more fitting swansong for Connery than NSNA.


*Though it's debatable how much of this pseudo-philosophy is actually helpful for a gambler, but that's on another page.

[glidrose]

Actually, Casino Royale, the book, wasn't a 'Bond begins' kind of story. The character - what character there is - is shown as seasoned and at peace with his fate already (not prissy and whiny as people often confuse with matureness).

'One day, and he accepted the fact, he would be brought to his knees by love or by luck. When that happened he knew that he too would be branded with the deadly question-mark he recognized so often in others, the promise to pay before you have lost: the acceptance of fallibility.'*

This is the thought process of a seasoned character, mirroring that of its creator at the time, 44 turning on 45 then. There is no indication of a rookie agent here; in fact in this first book Bond seems the most adult, the most rounded character until perhaps You Only Live Twice. This passage also sums up the whole novel, we see Bond indeed brought down by both, luck and love, and if Casino Royale was a stand alone novel nothing would be missing, Bond's entire persona is contained in this nutshell. It's easy to imagine this book with a much older protagonist. I daresay it would have been a far more fitting swansong for Connery than NSNA.


*Though it's debatable how much of this pseudo-philosophy is actually helpful for a gambler, but that's on another page.

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I am tired of hearing CR made out to be a "Bond begins" story when clearly it isn't. The film in particular becomes more poignant if one refuses to accept the "reboot" premise and believes it to be part of the same series that previously included OHMSS. Alas, Bond is fated in love.

[Dustin]

I think ultimately the book wasn't meant to be a series, Fleming just this once really got down to doing what he toyed with for some time. Only after he was through he got the advice to start his second book before the first was published, lest the critics might shoot his courage down. And there with the second book started the series. But if there had never been more than those first 27 chapters of Casino Royale nobody would have guessed this was a novel about a man 'becoming'; it's a cycle, that much is true. But the Bond of the opening and the one of the final line are very much the same person, only now he's one cynical experience richer.

It's very much the same with the films, at no point in all the many adventures do we get the idea Bond wasn't already fully operational. Even in Casino Royale, despite notions of having been promoted too early and expressed doubts on M's side, there is no situation in which Bond doesn't act with proficiency and obvious competence. If there is really some kind of 'Bond begins' moment it would be in Skyfall, a film that ironically shows Bond also in some kind of crisis and confronted with an alternate version of himself, and that alludes to some kind of key experience in the past. But Skyfall is not really about Bond so much.

[sharpshooter]

I would've liked to have seen a Lazenby DAF, that's for sure. And another film under Dalton's belt. But alas. 

[Single-O-Seven]

I would've liked to have seen a Lazenby DAF, that's for sure. And another film under Dalton's belt. But alas. 

 

At least one more Dalton in `91 would have been great. I'd like Colonel Sun to have been updated and adapted into a film for him. With a bit of retooling, its plot might have been suitable for that era. Had Casino Royale been available, it would have made a terrific film for Dalton as well.

[trevanian]

Actually, Casino Royale, the book, wasn't a 'Bond begins' kind of story. The character - what character there is - is shown as seasoned and at peace with his fate already (not prissy and whiny as people often confuse with matureness).

'One day, and he accepted the fact, he would be brought to his knees by love or by luck. When that happened he knew that he too would be branded with the deadly question-mark he recognized so often in others, the promise to pay before you have lost: the acceptance of fallibility.'*

This is the thought process of a seasoned character, mirroring that of its creator at the time, 44 turning on 45 then. There is no indication of a rookie agent here; in fact in this first book Bond seems the most adult, the most rounded character until perhaps You Only Live Twice. This passage also sums up the whole novel, we see Bond indeed brought down by both, luck and love, and if Casino Royale was a stand alone novel nothing would be missing, Bond's entire persona is contained in this nutshell. It's easy to imagine this book with a much older protagonist. I daresay it would have been a far more fitting swansong for Connery than NSNA.

 

Agree for the most part; the rookie-ization of Bond in the film always seems like an attempt to do a bratty TomCruiseTopGun with 007, and it MIGHT have played for me with Cavill, since he was a credible age. It seems utterly at odds with Craig's look, and I'm going to dread how the antagonist in SPECTRE addresses any younger-Bond aspects.  My view of Bond, while strongly colored by Connery, is pretty much shaped by Fleming and the Pearson 'bio' -- which put forward a strange notion that somehow Vesper's death enhances Bond's career.

 

I would have paid such good money to hear Dalton do the 'nature of evil' conversation from the CR book ... (sigh)

[dtuba]

I for one wish that they had saved OHMSS for Dalton. Not the very young Dalton of 1969, but maybe 1981 - era Dalton. He would have handled the romantic scenes as good as any Bond actor could, and the ending would have been devastating. Not sure if Tim can ski, though.

 

I also agree with the poster (on an older thread) who said that Moore could have done OHMSS as well.

Edited by dtuba, 12 August 2015 - 06:07 AM.

[Guy Haines]

First, I agree about Casino Royale the novel not being a "Bond begins" book, in the sense of Bond being a novice agent. He is already well into his career with MI6. Out of interest we're told how he became a Double-O agent, because this is the first novel. But at no time does Bond appear to be completely out of his depth, despite Le Chiffre's patronising remarks.

Bonds in different movies? There's another thread somewhere on the site which touches on this, and there was the suggestion of Roger Moore in OHMSS, which, who knows, might have happened if "The Saint" TV series had ended earlier than it did. It would have been a different start to his Bond career, in a story with more emotional depth - but not so different in others. Contrary to its reputation the film doesn't lack humour, particularly when "Sir Hilary" encounters Blofeld's "Angels of Death".

Which direction might the series have taken if Moore had continued into DAF? It would still have gradually steered towards a more light hearted, but that was happening anyway. But the continuity from the previous film of having the same actor would have made a revenge motive more convincing - as it is in the real world OHMSS is almost treated as a one off interlude, barely mentioned in the real DAF.

Unmade Bond stories - I like the idea of "Colonel Sun" being filmed with either Dalton or Brosnan as Bond. But I daresay there was no more likelihood of that being filmed as there is now of the entire series being remade.

[sharpshooter]

But I daresay there was no more likelihood of that being filmed as there is now of the entire series being remade.

I agree. I can't see OHMSS/YOLT book translations/remakes happening either. And yes, I am aware of SPECTRE's plot. At most, I think they will continue to take inspiration from the books, and that includes re-using past scenarios, but in original narratives.

[Guy Haines]

I can see Bond 25 possibly including the Garden of Death scenes, although there's no reason why this has to be set in Japan. (Although, unlike his many visits to Italy, Bond has visited Japan on screen just once, so maybe a return visit is long overdue?)

I think the whole Daniel Craig series has, in part, reworked elements from the previous Bond movies without being strict remakes. Some were obvious - the DB5, Strawberry Fields' awful death inspired from GF - and others less so.

I've posted before, I think the reason we've not seen any remakes within the Eon canon is comparison - there are still critics and old fogies like yours truly around who are old enough to remember the classic movies and the temptation to compare the original with the remake would be too great.

Personally, I'm not sure I'd want any remakes - rather a succession of basically original stories but with recognisable elements drawn from the Fleming novels and previous movies included.

[carddoug]

Very interesting replies! Thanks

[bribond]

Fun topic. 

 

Roger Moore in Quantum

Dalton in Goldfinger

Craig in Moonraker

Edited by bribond, 08 September 2015 - 03:09 AM.

[graric]

A lot of people might say Connery over Lazenby for OHMSS. But I'm from the school of thought that Lazenby would have been a better choice to come back for DAF over Connery. I wish it had happened, but only if it meant a very different DAF would be the result. A serious story that adapted aspects of the novel more closely, while doing justice to the end of OHMSS with Bond gritting his teeth over Tracy's death, and seeking retribution against Blofeld AND Bunt.

 

I would love to hear from those who think Connery should have been in OHMSS. I fear we would have got a very different film, more in line with YOLT in the way it handled the original material, while starring a bored Connery who would have wished he was somewhere else.

I tend to think if Connery had been Bond in OHMSS, they wouldn't have tried to go bigger than YOLT, as the return to an emphasis on character could have been a big reason why Connery would be persuaded to stay (and the producers seemd to realize anyway they needed to make OHMSS more character based, so I don't think this would have changed if Connery were about.)

If Connery really commited, and used some of his own frustration with the role in his acting, they could have emphasised the frustration and weariness of the Bond character duing the early phases of the film.
(And it could have been more convincing than the fresh faced Lazenby, who doesn't have the world weariness an older established Bond could have brought to the story.)

 

(It would also have been interesting to see how the writers worked around Bond and Blofeld not recognizing each other, as this would have been impossible to ignore if one or both of the actors was the same as YOLT.)

[HoneyDiamond]

Pierce in OHMSS. 

 

And I'd like to insert Telly Savalas into Diamonds Are Forever.