142 replies to this topic

[Guy Haines]

The Bond of SF - or for that matter, CR2006 and QoS - isn't "weak" but all too human. Daniel Craig has made him so. Even though each film has its "superman" moments - would they be Bond films without them? - Craig's performances have injected human frailties, vulnerabilities and failings to make Bond a more rounded character. And Ian Fleming didn't just create a killing machine who carried out his orders without doubts, if not without question. Others here have quoted several examples where Bond has expressed doubts about himself and his work - notably in the first novel of all Casino Royale - and where Bond has failed on the job.

Ian Fleming may have intended Bond to be a cardboard booby, but it's a tribute to his writing that he didn't always come over that way.

[sharpshooter]

While I disagree somewhat with his opinions on Skyfall, I can definitely see where he's coming from. So that's fine. Horowitz clearly knows what he likes and what he doesn't. I see that as a good thing. He seems like a strong personality who actually delivers the goods. And that's all that matters in the end. 

[tdalton]

I'd be fine with the authors trashing the film series if they could actually produce something that could rival what EON is currently doing, or even if they just managed to produce something that could even be called "good". So far, they've swung and missed several times and just look bitter in the process because their work is objectively inferior to what EON is currently producing.

[Walecs]

So his favourite Bond novel is Goldfinger, a book which shows Bond extremly depressed because of all the kills his job forces him to do, and he thinks Bond is not weak and doesn't have self-doubts?

 

I love coherent people.

[Orion]

So his favourite Bond novel is Goldfinger, a book which shows Bond extremly depressed because of all the kills his job forces him to do, and he thinks Bond is not weak and doesn't have self-doubts?

 

I love coherent people.

This occurred to me too, mostly because I love that opening chapter with Bond wallowing in self pity, attempting to drown his self-loathing in bourbon.

[plankattack]

I'd be fine with the authors trashing the film series if they could actually produce something that could rival what EON is currently doing, or even if they just managed to produce something that could even be called "good". So far, they've swung and missed several times and just look bitter in the process because their work is objectively inferior to what EON is currently producing.

 

Unfortunately for Horowitz, this is where we are a little bit. The "continuation" novels have been a mixed bag to say the least and time has definitely not provided fertile ground for everyone who's given it a go - IMHO Amis' effort is still the best and that was the first. The separation in time has still left most efforts failing in comparison rather than filling the space that the passage of time has provided.

 

I don't entirely disagree with some of his points - SF is full of plot-holes, but unlike Horowitz that fact doesn't undermine my enjoyment of the film. Historically, I've always tried to be very positive with my posts but I do share some of his forebodings about SP.

 

In his defense, I'm sure his interview was much deeper - the press are always going to edit things a certain way, and what better than "author puts boot into EON" as an angle!

[Simon]

Yes, this interview started so well for me, trashing Skyfall for one of the (many) reasons I thought it didn't really hang together; this of taking the Most important person in MI6 to a deserted location with no back up, no armoury and no bloody nothing, with the support of the soon-to-be new head of MI6 and the IT geek.  Didn't bode well.

 

But then, he states the self doubt as being a problem which, in the book Goldfinger, was what Jim has been harping on about as being thatvwhich Made the Bond novels.  That (I think this is right), the Bond of the books (and their inherent success) is as much about his personality, his musings, and, to pay deference to Jim's thoughts, him being a not very personable young chap.

 

Anyway, I think this fella's thinking is on the right tracks.  Time will tell.

[marktmurphy]

Well I bought it today; no-one else?

[Dustin]

You already have the book in hand?

[marktmurphy]

Yes, read the first couple of chapters. Good fun so far. He has a slightly odd staccato sentence thing going on but otherwise it's enjoyable. Not really fully into it yet (Bond's having lady troubles with Pussy) but the prologue with Mr Keller the German has a nice sort of Fleming 'Quantum' feel to it.

[sharpshooter]

Well I bought it today; no-one else?

I'll have it later on today. In about nine hours. 

[Dustin]

Got it on Kindle at midnight, started the first few pages.

[Orion]

Should be arriving today, but the post hasn't been yet 

[sharpshooter]

It's in my hands - will start reading shortly.

[Harmsway]

I've started reading it. Horowitz has a stronger grasp of how a Bond novel should read than any of the novelists after Christopher Wood.

[sharpshooter]

I agree. I've just finished the racing car section, and I'm hooked. It's an engaging read, and I realise the rest of the book's content is completely unknown to me. Can't wait to see where the plot goes. And as reviewers have stated, you can't tell what is Fleming and what is Horowitz. He's doing a great job.

Edited by sharpshooter, 08 September 2015 - 11:52 PM.

[marktmurphy]

It is tremendous fun. I like how utterly bonkers it is but delivered with a straight face. Driving a formula one car to defeat some Russians is perhaps a stage further in bonkers than gambling a man to death, but I guess they're both Fleming ideas!

[sharpshooter]

Yep. Just about done now about five chapters left. It's an effortless read. Love the characters and the set pieces. The escape from Sin's lair into the lake, Sin's playing cards and the assault on Bond's hotel room stand out. Even the dialogue scenes are entertaining and feel worth my time.

[Guy Haines]

I have been reading about motor racing drivers lately - a special edition of "Motor Sport" magazine, a tribute edition about Grand Prix legends from Fangio to Hamilton - and I must say Russian challengers in the late 1950s are conspicuous by their absence!

But I can see where Horowitz (and Fleming?) are coming from on this. In the late 1950s Nikita Khruschev talked about outdoing the West by "peaceful means" and this could have been one of those ways - the other being the "space race" which we already know forms part of the storyline in this new novel.

[Harmsway]

Let's hope Horowitz does (at least) a few more Bond novels. Trigger Mortis is the best continuation novel since Colonel Sun.

[Matt_13]

Very early on in the book myself but I'm already thoroughly engaged. Wish I had more time to delve deeper. Oh well, tomorrow is another day. Good stuff, though.

[sharpshooter]

Let's hope Horowitz does (at least) a few more Bond novels. Trigger Mortis is the best continuation novel since Colonel Sun.

Easily.

[Guy Haines]

I hope he does another novel as well. I'm impressed with what I've read so far. The previous works by "famous" authors were all good, but seemed like "Bond written in the style of....". But in this novel the author seems to have got closer to Ian Fleming's style than most - you feel like you are reading a Bond novel, not a Horowitz novel with James Bond in it.

If he does write another Bond book, I hope it is again set between two existing Ian Fleming adventures. An obvious one might be between Thunderball and OHMSS, with Bond on the trail of Blofeld. We know he doesn't find him, but he could encounter other SPECTRE villains along the way trying to stop him, and possibly plotting something themselves.

(And yes, The Spy Who Loved Me was between the other two books but of course it wasn't a typical Bond novel - he's relegated to the last part of the book, although one chapter describes how Bond was on the trail of a SPECTRE operative in Canada.)

[Marcin]

I envy you all! I'm still waiting for my copy (hopefully I'll be delivered early next week). As always, Polish edition will be released later this year (late October, supposedly). I simply can't wait that long!

[Guy Haines]

Since my previous post, I'd like to play devils advocate against it. (Before anyone else does!)

As interesting as a Bond adventure based on the search for Blofeld might be, there are drawbacks. First, since we know at the start of OHMSS that Bond hasn't found Blofeld, any "inbetween" novel about the search is bound to end in mission failure. This didn't matter in Thunderball because the objective was to stop those nuclear bombs being used, which was achieved - catching the villain behind it was important, but secondary. In any inbetween novel finding Blofeld is the objective, and I repeat, Bond would inevitably fail at it.

Secondly, where would Blofeld fit into this novel as a character, if at all. If he's in it, it would be at more than one remove from Bond, running the show in hiding but obviously never encountering 007. Which would be just the same as in Thunderball.

But if he's not in the novel, but merely mentioned frequently - with Bond perhaps confronting a succession of lesser SPECTRE types with the question "Where is he?", then it would seem like a Bond book without a prime antagonist - Blofeld would seem like a spectre haunting Bond and the novel, but never appearing.

And what kind of Bond novel type plot could these SPECTRE lesser lights be hatching without the leader's involvement. I think it might be strictly low level compared with the events of Thunderball. Unless it was a major mission which doesn't appear to involve Blofeld and SPECTRE, only for Bond to discover that it actually does. However, we know that M has had Bond doing nothing but try to find Blofeld following the Thunderball mission - 007 reveals it in the resignation letter he composes near the start of OHMSS.

Those are the cons of a novel along the lines I put forward earlier, as far as I can make out. But there might be other intervals between novels that might lend themselves to an inbetween story - we know John Pearson found plenty to fill the gaps in his "biography" of 007. Or it could come after, or inbetween one of the Amis, Faulks or Boyd novels (We had Bond on missions in 1967 - DMC - and 1969 - Solo - but what about the events in that very turbulent year of 1968? Riots, two major assassinations, the Vietnam War and the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia - plenty of material there to use as a backdrop for a Bond novel.)

[Dustin]

The obvious period for an in-between adventure - although it would be very uncharacteristic and ultimately end as 'failure' - would be Bond's arrival in Vladivostok and his subsequent time at the hands of the KGB. It's perhaps the most drastic period in his life after the death of his wife, yet we hear practically nothing about it apart from a few sparse sentences that only hint at what he went through.

[Guy Haines]

I think if you're going to place a "new/old" Bond adventure anywhere, it might as well be inbetween one of the "five secret occasions" in the life of Bond chronicled in FYEO. No messy stuff such as inability to find fugitive villains such as Blofeld, or Bond being portrayed as on the slide post OHMSS, or in the hands of his opponents post YOLT.

It would be interesting though, a novel about the time he was thought to be "dead", only to be reborn, however briefly, as a brainwashed Soviet assassin.

[marktmurphy]

So what's in the Waterstone's edition? It says 'exclusive Ian Fleming content' on the sticker on the cover; I haven't checked it out yet.

[glidrose]

http://www.northyork...r_literary_spy/

Horowitz, 60, who has endless enthusiasm for his work, admits he had hinted in several diary pieces that he wanted to write a Bond book before the Fleming Estate contacted him.

"It was quite daunting, I was quite nervous of it. When I worked for the Conan Doyle Estate [he's written two Sherlock Holmes novels], it was very easy, I never met them, I just wrote the two books I wanted to write and got on with it.

"I knew the Fleming Estate was much more in control of the legacy and was going to be much more difficult.

"When I delivered the first draft in particular, I thought, 'Oh, I'm going to get a load of notes', but I was very pleasantly surprised," he adds. "It's been a brilliant cooperation."

While he knows Barbara Broccoli, co-producer of the Bond films, he doubts he will ever be a screenwriter for a 007 movie, although it's a challenge he hankers after.

[Orion]

http://www.northyork...r_literary_spy/

Horowitz, 60, who has endless enthusiasm for his work, admits he had hinted in several diary pieces that he wanted to write a Bond book before the Fleming Estate contacted him.

"It was quite daunting, I was quite nervous of it. When I worked for the Conan Doyle Estate [he's written two Sherlock Holmes novels], it was very easy, I never met them, I just wrote the two books I wanted to write and got on with it.

"I knew the Fleming Estate was much more in control of the legacy and was going to be much more difficult.

"When I delivered the first draft in particular, I thought, 'Oh, I'm going to get a load of notes', but I was very pleasantly surprised," he adds. "It's been a brilliant cooperation."

While he knows Barbara Broccoli, co-producer of the Bond films, he doubts he will ever be a screenwriter for a 007 movie, although it's a challenge he hankers after.

I think he'd do a good job on a film, but perhaps starting by saying how you hated their last film wouldn't be the best way to start...