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10 Most Outrageous Un-PC Moments From Bond Films


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#1 quantumofsolace

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 03:28 PM

https://uk.yahoo.com...9360512516.html



#2 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 03:53 PM

Well, yes and no.  

 

- When Connery-Bond hits a woman he does not hit her because she is a woman but because he would have hit anybody at that time.   In FRWL he believes that Tatiana has fooled him and helped killing Kerim.  In DAF he also believes that Tiffany is leading him on again and again.  And in GF Pussy starts out as a henchwoman for the main villain, so...

 

- Women are objectified by Maurice Binder - well, of course they are... but aren´t men objectified, too?  Bond is definitely objectified again and again.

 

- Racist remarks... yes - but Bond is not a racist per se (in the films) as his allies prove.  He does not care what´s the color of their skin is - he only cares to survive.  One might or should argue whether it is more racist to have only villains who are WASPS, depicting anybody else as being just perfect.

 

I know, this might sound like apologism.  But while every Bond film reflects the time it was made in, the dreadful political correctness these days does not help to look at society in a better way.  It´s only a Pawlowian reflex-bound reaction that disregards details in order to put the blame on something, thereby widening the gap between people.

 

- And one last thing: Bond does not really care for Severine because... well, he is not that kind of guy.  Bond is not the nice friend who is always a gentleman.  He is a spy using everything and everybody to achieve his goal.  SHOCK!



#3 Simon

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 04:34 PM

Yup.



#4 jaguar007

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 06:00 PM

Well I'm still stuck on the opening paragraph.

 

There are many things we love about the Bond movies – the action, the gadgets, the moustache-twirling villains and their insane lust for power…"

 

Apart from Drax and Kristatos, who had beards and mustache, I am trying to think of a single "mustache-twirling" villain in the whole series….



#5 tdalton

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 06:02 PM

How Bond's "trickery" (a stronger word would be more appropriate, IMO) of Solitaire didn't make this list is one of the more amazing omissions from this kind of list I've seen in a while.  Should have been a strong contender for #1 on this list of shame.



#6 saint mark

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 07:09 PM

Roger Moore has always apologized for his mistreatment of the kid in TMWTGG, which was a moment that made me raise my eyebrows as well. 

 

UN PC I really do not care for retro actively nitwitting.



#7 jaguar007

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 08:40 PM

Roger Moore has always apologized for his mistreatment of the kid in TMWTGG, which was a moment that made me raise my eyebrows as well. 

 

UN PC I really do not care for retro actively nitwitting.

Awww c'mon. Bond was being chased my villains wanting to kill him. The kids life was in danger as long as he was on Bond's boat. He pushed him off in order to keep him safe! Of course he pushed him off the boat right in line of a speed boat chasing him, but that is besides the point  :D



#8 Vahan

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 09:04 PM

Would the name "Pussy Galore" qualify as an "UN-PC" moment?



#9 Guy Haines

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 11:42 PM

I've never been comfortable with the "fetch my shoes" line in Dr. No. I wasn't when I was a lot younger and "PC" was an odd academic obsession, because Quarrel as a character was, in the books at least, a man Bond really liked and respected - he's telling Bond what to do as he gets the man trained for his assignments in the books Live And Let Die and Dr No.  Maybe it's the way the characters were introduced in the film of Dr No - Quarrel and Leiter initially hostile - and it was the first time on film they had met, but that line just didn't sit right with me.



#10 freemo

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 01:23 AM

Anyone who is watching LIVE AND LET DIE and thinking anything other than "this is awesome!" has my pity but not my sympathy.

 

Notice how lists like these are made up almost entirely of moments from films in the period '62-'79 (the admittedly rancid racism of OCTOPUSSY aside)? Is that to the 1981-onwards films' credit, or to their detriment?

 

17 years on and I still hate that stupid, stupid "dinosaur" line that every hack writer and Bond fan seems to love. You know, I always say that TWINE is my least favorite film, and it is, but that film is long forgotton now. Its heinous, heinous crimes were committed mostly in the privacy of its own home. GOLDENEYE, however, has had a far wider and more devastating impact, and should be taken out and shot.

 

That aside, people need to relax about lists like these. I mean, it's only a bit of rubbish on the internet. He got (at time writing) 22 replies none of which were supportive. It doesn't really matter, does it?



#11 Guy Haines

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 06:58 AM

The late John Brosnan in his book "James Bond In The Cinema" argues about LALD that if anything it is Bond who is being patronised by the villains, not the other way around. In Harlem he seems, for a while at least, out of his depth - unless he's deliberately playing the naïve Englishman abroad, of course.

 

The villains, however, don't strike me as anything other than villains who happen to share the same background - as in the original Fleming novel, and to film LALD even half faithfully would mean there's no getting around that. But Yaphet Kotto plays Kananga as a suave, cultured dangerous individual, not a stereotype (Neither was Julius W Harris' Tee Hee - rather an articulate Bond movie henchman, and not just because of that mechanical arm!) - unless we are talking about stereotypical Bond villains, which one could say Kananga definitely is. He does, after all, tick all the Bond villain boxes - mad scheme which he explains, secret lair which he of course shows Bond around, and overly elaborate ways of bumping Bond off, none of which work!



#12 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 08:08 AM

How Bond's "trickery" (a stronger word would be more appropriate, IMO) of Solitaire didn't make this list is one of the more amazing omissions from this kind of list I've seen in a while.  Should have been a strong contender for #1 on this list of shame.

 

IMO, that is very Bondian of him.  And since Bond is not a nice guy, using superstition against Solitaire in order to get her on his side is, I think, the clever thing to do.  (To find a shop that prints 007 on the back of Tarot cards is also very ingenious...)


I've never been comfortable with the "fetch my shoes" line in Dr. No. I wasn't when I was a lot younger and "PC" was an odd academic obsession, because Quarrel as a character was, in the books at least, a man Bond really liked and respected - he's telling Bond what to do as he gets the man trained for his assignments in the books Live And Let Die and Dr No.  Maybe it's the way the characters were introduced in the film of Dr No - Quarrel and Leiter initially hostile - and it was the first time on film they had met, but that line just didn't sit right with me.

 

Re-watching the film recently I did not get a hostile vibe from that line at all.  Bond is taking Honey´s hand, planning to run away with her, and he´s asking Quarrel to bring along what is left.  And since he does not treat Quarrel in any racist way, I had no problem with it.  Is this also a bit of a PC-reflex that NO WAY should a white person ask a black person to do something for him?  If I ask a white friend to fetch my shoes - should that be okay?

 

I guess the main reason for feeling awkward about that scene is the way the whole film treats Quarrel as a helper, superstitious and eager to please the white men.  If a white Quarrel had been used one probably would have complained that that he was only used as a servant but not as a full-fleshed out character.  And that´s what I would have preferred in DN: giving Quarrel more to do, making him a trusted CIA agent instead of adding Felix Leiter (who has not that much to do either).



#13 Guy Haines

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 10:01 AM

I think SecretAgentFan has analysed well my unease about the way Quarrel is treated in the movie. It's not just that line, but once it's established that Quarrel, Leiter and Bond are on the same side, Quarrel is almost a subordinate to the agents from MI6 and the CIA.

 

I repeat, in the two novels he features Quarrel is Bond's respected colleague, even though there are "class" issues, and even though Bond is amused by Quarrel's pronounciation issues! Quarrel has a responsible role in the books getting Bond ready for two gruelling missions, getting killed in the second.

 

As for Felix Leiter in the film DN - I'm guessing, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that his involvement was a holdover from the original plan to film TB first. Included in DN, but with not much to do beyond mistake 007 for an enemy, then introduce himself and provide Bond with information. Jack Lord did a good job playing him though - one of my favourite Leiters!



#14 tdalton

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 11:27 AM

 

How Bond's "trickery" (a stronger word would be more appropriate, IMO) of Solitaire didn't make this list is one of the more amazing omissions from this kind of list I've seen in a while.  Should have been a strong contender for #1 on this list of shame.

 

IMO, that is very Bondian of him.  And since Bond is not a nice guy, using superstition against Solitaire in order to get her on his side is, I think, the clever thing to do.  (To find a shop that prints 007 on the back of Tarot cards is also very ingenious...)

 

That's one of those moments that, for me, goes way too far.  I'm aware that Bond isn't a nice guy, but at the same time that's a bit too much even for him.  He could have gotten whatever information and/or taken her power away from Scaramanga in other ways that didn't involve something that very much borders on, if not outright crosses the line of, rape.  

 

It's not so much, for me, about Bond using superstition to get her on his side.  He could have done that in a number of other ways, perhaps rigging the deck in a way to back her into a corner without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.  It's clear in the moment that she didn't want it and she clearly regrets it in the immediate aftermath as well.  It is, to me, the absolute lowpoint in the franchise.



#15 DaveBond21

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 01:26 AM

 

- And one last thing: Bond does not really care for Severine because... well, he is not that kind of guy.  Bond is not the nice friend who is always a gentleman.  He is a spy using everything and everybody to achieve his goal.  SHOCK!

 

Actually I think he does care about Severine. He feels really sorry for her when he tells her that he can save her. He tells her she is putting on a good act. Bond is a sucker for a woman in distress throughout the series - a trait that often hinders a mission.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



#16 Call Billy Bob

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 01:29 AM

without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.

He's James Bond - what else is he supposed to do?!

#17 tdalton

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 02:43 AM

 

without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.

He's James Bond - what else is he supposed to do?!

 

 

I'm sorry, but really?

 

Bond's actions in that moment are his most despicable in the franchise.  I find it quite amazing that, given all the attention (and it's rightfully focused) that the Bond/Galore scene in the barn gets and the general treatment of women in the Connery era gets, that what Bond does to Solitaire never gets brought up.  It's absolutely disgusting and the absolute lowpoint in the franchise.



#18 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 06:09 AM

 

 

How Bond's "trickery" (a stronger word would be more appropriate, IMO) of Solitaire didn't make this list is one of the more amazing omissions from this kind of list I've seen in a while.  Should have been a strong contender for #1 on this list of shame.

 

IMO, that is very Bondian of him.  And since Bond is not a nice guy, using superstition against Solitaire in order to get her on his side is, I think, the clever thing to do.  (To find a shop that prints 007 on the back of Tarot cards is also very ingenious...)

 

That's one of those moments that, for me, goes way too far.  I'm aware that Bond isn't a nice guy, but at the same time that's a bit too much even for him.  He could have gotten whatever information and/or taken her power away from Scaramanga in other ways that didn't involve something that very much borders on, if not outright crosses the line of, rape.  

 

It's not so much, for me, about Bond using superstition to get her on his side.  He could have done that in a number of other ways, perhaps rigging the deck in a way to back her into a corner without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.  It's clear in the moment that she didn't want it and she clearly regrets it in the immediate aftermath as well.  It is, to me, the absolute lowpoint in the franchise.

 

Bond doesn't force himself on Solitaire. He tricks her. It may not be the nicest thing he's done, but he's using every means at his disposal to get someone on the inside to help him deal with Kananga. He doesn't force her to kiss him. She willingly, if timidly, kisses him back. It is no doubt her first kiss so being a little timid is understandable. Regardless, she doesn't resist Bond's advances. Besides, back in Harlem, the cards have already predicted that she and Bond would be lovers so when she draws the lovers card, it just further reinforces that belief/fate for her so she is willing to have sex with him.

 

And I would not say that Solitaire "clearly regrets" having sex with Bond. She regrets losing her fortune telling power yes, but not having sex. If she regretted having sex, then she would not have suggested another round of Lesson #3.



#19 tdalton

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 06:28 AM

I'm sorry, but that's just not correct.

 

If you watch the scene, she's devastated when she picks the "lovers" card from Bond's stacked deck.  After the deed is done, she's very regretful while they're lying in bed.  She comes around during their conversation, because that's what all of the Bond girls who Bond has forced himself on do (see the Connery films for further examples of that), but she's anything but happy in the initial moments.  It's supposed to be a sign that nobody can resist Bond, but it just comes off as disgusting, especially given the fact that it's her first time and there's a 23 year gap between Moore and Seymour.   It's a disgusting scene that the filmmakers should have had the good sense to cut.



#20 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:17 AM

I have never seen it that way.  My take on this is that Solitaire actually believes in the cards and therefore is shocked that she has not seen Bond and her really being destined to become lovers.  When Bond tricks her with that she is disturbed because her world view has been shakened.  She has to face the "fact" that everything she was brought up to believe - that she has magical powers to see the future - might have been wrong.

 

That´s what troubles her after sleeping with Bond.  Not the sex which she likes enough to ask for it again.  And, the perspective of having Kananga/Mr.Big decide when to have sex with her and "take away" her powers is actually what really is disgusting to me.  It´s the perspective of a slave owner, a rapist enjoying his own power over his personal hostage.  Having Bond change all that with... um... his own pleasure-guaranteeing skills of seduction... is definitely the preferable choice for Solitaire starting a better future.

 

Also, the age difference between Seymour and Moore has never felt extremely wide to me.  They both look to me even rather close in age.  Also, they are consenting adults.  Moore-Bond does not force himself on her like Connery-Bond forces himself on Pussy Galore.

 

In the end, LALD makes it very clear that Solitaire´s abilities and Kananga/Mr. Big´s´s voodoo reign are make believe.  Interestingly, Kananga/Mr. Big believes in Solitaire´s powers, while his voodoo reign is just designed to scare anybody else and to empower him.  So the villain of LALD obviously chooses between a "real" supernatural idea and the "fake" one to dumb down the masses.  That it is Bond who corrupts the "real" one by showing how it is also a "fake" one, is IMO pretty clever.

 

Of course, one might argue, that Baron Samedi sitting on the train at the end might assert that the supernatural indeed is real.  One might also interpret it, however, as the jokester/trickster that Baron Samedi is, always finding a way out, surviving and continuing to have fun.  Also, and that is probably the best explanation: Samedi on the train was just a nifty idea as a last amusing shock for the audience.

 

Either way, it does not really matter - the important thing is: Bond, the non-believer, succeeds, and the supernatural does not affect him.



#21 tdalton

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 01:29 PM

People can spin the scene however they want in order to try to justify Bond's actions, but the fact of the matter is, it was a despicable thing to do.  There is no justification for it, regardless of what argument can be made in favor of it.  Yes, Bond doesn't "force" himself on her in the same way that Connery's Bond did in the early days of the franchise, but the way that he does "force" himself on her is perhaps even more disgusting, which is to take advantage of someone who doesn't have all of the mental faculties to function as the adult that she is because she's been held in captivity all of her life.  And the idea that Bond does it to "save" her from something adds another rather disturbing layer to the whole situation.



#22 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 01:41 PM

Hmm, do you really see Solitaire as "someone who doesn´t have all the mental faculties to function as the adult that she is"?

 

That thought never occurred to me.  And I don´t get the feeling from the way the character is written or acted.  I actually think she comes across as naive as for example Tatiana Romanova in FRWL or Domino in TB.



#23 tdalton

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 03:50 PM

Yes, she is rather naive, but there's also a childlike aspect of her personality since she's been enslaved her entire life.  She doesn't know how things really work on the outside because she's been raised in captivity for some two decades.  

 

And this business about how the cards predicted that they would be lovers, that's just an idea that Bond used to manipulate her the entire way.  He simply asked about his future when he drew the card.  It had nothing to do with his future with Solitaire or anything of that sort.  He draws the lovers card, sees an opening to further force his way into the situation by asking her if it's "Us?".  This sets up his "trick" later. 



#24 glidrose

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:02 PM

Is the "let's blackmail Pat Fearing into sex if she wants to keep her job" moment from TB on the list?



#25 Call Billy Bob

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 12:30 PM

without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.

He's James Bond - what else is he supposed to do?!

 
I'm sorry, but really?
 
Bond's actions in that moment are his most despicable in the franchise.  I find it quite amazing that, given all the attention (and it's rightfully focused) that the Bond/Galore scene in the barn gets and the general treatment of women in the Connery era gets, that what Bond does to Solitaire never gets brought up.  It's absolutely disgusting and the absolute lowpoint in the franchise.

I know that it's not something anyone should do, but this is a film - fiction. And these are fictional characters we are talking about. Plus, you expect Bond to be a bit of a perv and a creep. It comes with the territory.

How Bond's "trickery" (a stronger word would be more appropriate, IMO) of Solitaire didn't make this list is one of the more amazing omissions from this kind of list I've seen in a while.  Should have been a strong contender for #1 on this list of shame.

 
IMO, that is very Bondian of him.  And since Bond is not a nice guy, using superstition against Solitaire in order to get her on his side is, I think, the clever thing to do.  (To find a shop that prints 007 on the back of Tarot cards is also very ingenious...)

 
That's one of those moments that, for me, goes way too far.  I'm aware that Bond isn't a nice guy, but at the same time that's a bit too much even for him.  He could have gotten whatever information and/or taken her power away from Scaramanga in other ways that didn't involve something that very much borders on, if not outright crosses the line of, rape.  
 
It's not so much, for me, about Bond using superstition to get her on his side.  He could have done that in a number of other ways, perhaps rigging the deck in a way to back her into a corner without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.  It's clear in the moment that she didn't want it and she clearly regrets it in the immediate aftermath as well.  It is, to me, the absolute lowpoint in the franchise.

Bond doesn't force himself on Solitaire. He tricks her. It may not be the nicest thing he's done, but he's using every means at his disposal to get someone on the inside to help him deal with Kananga. He doesn't force her to kiss him. She willingly, if timidly, kisses him back. It is no doubt her first kiss so being a little timid is understandable. Regardless, she doesn't resist Bond's advances. Besides, back in Harlem, the cards have already predicted that she and Bond would be lovers so when she draws the lovers card, it just further reinforces that belief/fate for her so she is willing to have sex with him.
 
And I would not say that Solitaire "clearly regrets" having sex with Bond. She regrets losing her fortune telling power yes, but not having sex. If she regretted having sex, then she would not have suggested another round of Lesson #3.

Spot on, Double-Oh. Well said.

#26 sunset

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:55 PM

I felt uncomfortable when Bond forced himself on the Molly Peter's character, Patricia, in Thunderball.  He used the attempt on his life blame her and to make her have sex - even as she is saying no.  Again, the world has changed.  I saw the movie when it first came out, and nobody complained back then.



#27 saint mark

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:44 PM

While Bonds attempt to lure Solitaire in his bed might be slightly cheesy Most heterosexual men would have done the same thing if that meant sleeping with a young Jane Seymour. And some might still attempt it today if they had the chance.



#28 tdalton

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 11:50 PM

 

 

 

without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.

He's James Bond - what else is he supposed to do?!

 

 
I'm sorry, but really?
 
Bond's actions in that moment are his most despicable in the franchise.  I find it quite amazing that, given all the attention (and it's rightfully focused) that the Bond/Galore scene in the barn gets and the general treatment of women in the Connery era gets, that what Bond does to Solitaire never gets brought up.  It's absolutely disgusting and the absolute lowpoint in the franchise.

 

I know that it's not something anyone should do, but this is a film - fiction. And these are fictional characters we are talking about. Plus, you expect Bond to be a bit of a perv and a creep. It comes with the territory.

 

 

 

How Bond's "trickery" (a stronger word would be more appropriate, IMO) of Solitaire didn't make this list is one of the more amazing omissions from this kind of list I've seen in a while.  Should have been a strong contender for #1 on this list of shame.

 
IMO, that is very Bondian of him.  And since Bond is not a nice guy, using superstition against Solitaire in order to get her on his side is, I think, the clever thing to do.  (To find a shop that prints 007 on the back of Tarot cards is also very ingenious...)

 

 
That's one of those moments that, for me, goes way too far.  I'm aware that Bond isn't a nice guy, but at the same time that's a bit too much even for him.  He could have gotten whatever information and/or taken her power away from Scaramanga in other ways that didn't involve something that very much borders on, if not outright crosses the line of, rape.  
 
It's not so much, for me, about Bond using superstition to get her on his side.  He could have done that in a number of other ways, perhaps rigging the deck in a way to back her into a corner without having to forcibly take her virginity from her.  It's clear in the moment that she didn't want it and she clearly regrets it in the immediate aftermath as well.  It is, to me, the absolute lowpoint in the franchise.

 

Bond doesn't force himself on Solitaire. He tricks her. It may not be the nicest thing he's done, but he's using every means at his disposal to get someone on the inside to help him deal with Kananga. He doesn't force her to kiss him. She willingly, if timidly, kisses him back. It is no doubt her first kiss so being a little timid is understandable. Regardless, she doesn't resist Bond's advances. Besides, back in Harlem, the cards have already predicted that she and Bond would be lovers so when she draws the lovers card, it just further reinforces that belief/fate for her so she is willing to have sex with him.
 
And I would not say that Solitaire "clearly regrets" having sex with Bond. She regrets losing her fortune telling power yes, but not having sex. If she regretted having sex, then she would not have suggested another round of Lesson #3.

 

Spot on, Double-Oh. Well said.

 

 

The statement with regards to their being lovers when Bond initially draws the card is incorrect.  He asks about his future, more specifically to do with the orders to have him "wasted", and then draws the card.  It has nothing to do with her.  He makes it about her by making his comment "us?" before handing the card back and then being escorted from the room.



#29 sunset

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:44 PM

While Bonds attempt to lure Solitaire in his bed might be slightly cheesy Most heterosexual men would have done the same thing if that meant sleeping with a young Jane Seymour. And some might still attempt it today if they had the chance.

As a heterosexual male, I am not sure if I resent or resemble your remark. LOL



#30 hilly

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 02:32 PM

A few choice Roger Moore lines

"Forgive me Darling. Your turn will come"  (TMWTGG)

"As I said, Quarrel. Lousy agent. But the compensations speak for themselves" (LALD)

"But of course I am forgetting. You are more than just a very beautiful woman" (MR)

"And where did you recruit all these....(slightly husky voice) 'Lovelies' ?" (OP)

 

and my favourite

"What she needs is a man. To dominate her. To make love to her enough for her to love him" (OHMSS)