64 replies to this topic

[Royal Dalton]

And Timothy Dalton became the next James Bond.

[glidrose]

And Timothy Dalton became the next James Bond.

Exactly. And...?

Broccoli could not use an actor who was unavailable and who was also tied into a tv series. Dalton was only unavailable for a month - they shot around him at first - and had no telly commitments. Has nothing to do with whether ARB really wanted Brosnan or not. Insofar as any of us can state this as fact, but had the plights been reversed, Timothy "Remington Steele" Dalton (try imagining that show!) would have been out and Pierce "Brenda Starr" Brosnan in.

[Royal Dalton]

As I understand it, MTM/NBC were willing to let Brosnan shoot the Bond film, as long as he went back to Remington Steele afterwards. So it wasn't really a case of him being unavailable.

[han4bond]

I would like to point out that while Brosnan did stay some unflattering things about the producers, especially when he was not asked back, he has since said very complimentary things about some of the same situations.  I recall him mentioning that he thought the producers made a gutsy call to cast Craig and reinvent the franchise when they did.  It's also a matter of record that he encouraged Craig to take the part he had just been sacked from, which seems like a pretty classy move.  I get the impression he could be rather high maintenance (remember the stink he raised about cutting his lip on the set of TND?), but I don't think that means that he didn't get along with the producers.

Edited by han4bond, 28 April 2015 - 02:41 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

As I understand it, MTM/NBC were willing to let Brosnan shoot the Bond film, as long as he went back to Remington Steele afterwards. So it wasn't really a case of him being unavailable.

 

Well, having an actor become Bond and then appear on a tv series again was an impossible situation - so in that way he was unavailable for Bond.

[Royal Dalton]

Broccoli wasn't against him doing more episodes of Remington Steele in principal. He just wanted to limit the number of episodes.

[SecretAgentFan]

Really?  I can´t imagine having an actor who is chosen as Bond going back to a TV show (at that time).

[Dustin]

At the time? No way, I would not have thought that's possible. TV back then was a very quantity-over-quality affair, from what I remember reading Broccoli was very afraid of cheapening his product with a Bond that was in an ongoing series.

[Royal Dalton]

Well, that's what it says in Doublenoughtspy's Living Daylights book.

[Dustin]

I know, it's just a path they never went down in the end, that's why it still feels utterly weird. They considered Moore while he was still tied to TV, they considered McGoohan, who was mainly working for TV, so TV per se wasn't the main hurdle. It was the fear of having an actor in the role who's too ubiquitous, too often seen on the telly to be an event when on the big screen. I have no doubt Broccoli was willing to go to some lengths. But some of it still amazes, mainly probably because it didn't come to fruition. Like the unique contract they offered Lazenby during OHMSS, a contract that would have seen him in the role until the mid-1980s.

[SecretAgentFan]

I could imagine that after Connery they were always interested in people who already got a certain fan base, millions of tv viewers who would follow their star to the Bond films. 

 

Yet, once Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan were Bond they could not be made available in a tv show at the same time.  They had to be exclusive.  And that must have been the dealbreaker for Brosnan the first time around.

 

The unique contract for Lazenby probably was a result of securing him so that they would never get into the situation Connery left them in.  Casting the unknown and untrained Lazenby probably also was the result of thinking that they could impose more pressure on him.  Something that obviously did not work out or even push Lazenby further into his agent´s idea of "only one Bond - and then quit".

 

Interestingly, they seem to have learned their lesson, letting Craig have more input than Connery ever had, paying him better and inviting him to stay on as long as he wants - not as long as they want.

[Dustin]

Moreover, I suppose having Brosnan as Bond and as Remington Steele at the same time would likely have backfired. The show wasn't all that successful any more, was struggling with the diminishing appeal of its screwball comedy charm and the production wasn't willing to step up the ante beyond the bare necessities. The fact that it was initially cancelled after the fourth season and that the fifth season then was cut short to three two-parters is evidence enough there wasn't all that much steam left in it. Perhaps Brocolli's hope was to find an understanding under which he could have bought Brosnan free and NBC simply pushed for too high a sum.

[Royal Dalton]

The story goes that Broccoli had agreed to Brosnan doing six more episodes of Remington Steele, but NBC wanted to extend it to twenty-two episodes, which was too many for Broccoli, so he stopped negotiating with them. Presumably assuming that the new Steele episodes would be shown at the same time as the new Bond film was in the cinemas.

 

The irony, of course, is that they did only make six more episodes of Remington Steele in the end.

[plankattack]

The story goes that Broccoli had agreed to Brosnan doing six more episodes of Remington Steele, but NBC wanted to extend it to twenty-two episodes, which was too many for Broccoli, so he stopped negotiating with them. Presumably assuming that the new Steele episodes would be shown at the same time as the new Bond film was in the cinemas.

 

The irony, of course, is that they did only make six more episodes of Remington Steele in the end.

 

 

My recollection is that this was the case. NBC had been prepared to let it PB go, but then they sensed that PB-as-Bond would inject some interest into Remington Steele. The story goes that they re-upped the Remington Steele clause on the last day (according to Brozza himself), basically denying Brozza the chance at Bond.

 

I think Broccoli was fine with a little overlap between the show and Bond, but most certainly not a whole series. And while Dustin is correct that EON had considered Sir Rog and McGoohan while they were doing TV shows, they had not, in those two instances reached the point where they pretty much had a contract fleshed out.

 

I always take it that the job was Brozza's - NBC did their switcheroo - so EON moved on to TD. But if NBC had not looked to cash in, then Brozza would have starred in TLD.

[Dustin]

According to Doublenoughtspy's book, NBC was the party to propose 6 episodes, they only upped their limit to 22 once Broccoli showed himself willing to reach a deal. That need not - at that point - necessarily have meant they were actually going to produce those 6 episodes. It could just as well have played out as Broccoli shelling out the better part of the production budget for these six episodes, regardless if they were ever shot.

I read somewhere that back in the day one episode of Remington Steele was produced for - roughly - one million dollars, with kickbacks for network and cable syndication of about $ 140.000. Broccoli could have bought Brosnan for say $5 million and saved him the lawsuit of $20 million and the possible damage to his reputation for the breach of contract. The mentioned idea of filming part of the season in Europe, with the added costs that would have involved, seems not exactly realistic with a show that was already about to be buried.

On balance I'd say NBC really made the most out of the Bond connection they could have hoped for.

[DavidJones]

What I don't get is: There would be no interest in Remington Steel if Brosnan couldn't do Bond - so why did NBC make such ridiculous demands and stop him from becoming Bond?

[Dustin]

There was some revived interest in the show when Brosnan's Bond contract was published. Reruns got better Nielsen ratings than when they were aired the first time. Fans mounted a campaign to make NBC change their minds. In the end it was simply a matter of how much the show would earn them back on that basis. And apparently nobody thought the returns would justify a full 22 episodes run. Actually, the six they did got only produced because of Brosnan's connection with Bond.

[glidrose]

As I understand it, MTM/NBC were willing to let Brosnan shoot the Bond film, as long as he went back to Remington Steele afterwards. So it wasn't really a case of him being unavailable.

SecretAgentFan and Dustin cover the points I would have made in rebuttal so I'll let it rest.

 

Moreover, I suppose having Brosnan as Bond and as Remington Steele at the same time would likely have backfired. The show wasn't all that successful any more, was struggling with the diminishing appeal of its screwball comedy charm and the production wasn't willing to step up the ante beyond the bare necessities. The fact that it was initially cancelled after the fourth season and that the fifth season then was cut short to three two-parters is evidence enough there wasn't all that much steam left in it. Perhaps Brocolli's hope was to find an understanding under which he could have bought Brosnan free and NBC simply pushed for too high a sum.

That seems likely. In short, NBC's greed won out at the end of the day and even then NBC didn't exactly profit that much from it.
 
 

What I don't get is: There would be no interest in Remington Steel if Brosnan couldn't do Bond - so why did NBC make such ridiculous demands and stop him from becoming Bond?

 
Excellent question. The usual reasons: greed, short-sightedness, stupidity. I do wonder, tho', when ARB made his famous Remington Steele will not be James Bond comment, did NBC try to go back to bargaining table to renegotiate with EON, or no? If not, did they think that ARB would eventually come around and settle on their terms?

[Double-Oh Agent]

Ultimately, things probably worked out for the best the way they did, especially for Pierce Brosnan. Timothy Dalton eventually got the role and made two very good 007 films with a serious and more novel-like James Bond character before extenuating circumstances led him to do no more.

 

Brosnan, meanwhile, was everyone's top candidate to be 007, but now looking back at him, he did look pretty young then with little world-weary look to him. Compare his looks then to what he appeared like in GoldenEye eight years later and he looks much more mature, world-weary, and Bondian in 1995.

 

Also, had Brosnan gotten the gig in 1987, he very well may have only done two films like Dalton wound up doing. After 1989, the MGM ownership fiasco happened with Giancarlo Parretti (to my recollection) trying to sell off rights to the individual Bond films, among others, which was steadfastly fought by EON. All that legal wrangling, along with MGM's severe money issues, delayed the next Bond film by at least 2-4 years. During which time Brosnan's wife, Cassandra Harris, came down with ovarian cancer and died. No doubt that added to Brosnan's "worn-in" look in 1995, but had he been Bond at that time, he very well may have resigned from the role leaving him with only two films on his resume. (Although I have no doubt that Albert R. Broccoli, would have stood by him and told him to take his time and that he would have the gig when he wanted to come back.)

 

Still, by not getting the Bond role till 1995, Brosnan was able to "grow into" the role, new blood was brought to the production team with some new ideas, and he was probably more eagerly looked forward to becoming Bond by the public after having to wait 11 years for him. The build up and anticipation for Brosnan's 1st Bond, GoldenEye, was huge. And, ultimately, he took that opportunity and ran with it and delivered solid performances and a well-liked Bond that lasted for four films and should have been at least five.

 

There is a good possibility that MGM would have stuck with Brosnan through the six year gap had there been one with his tenure anyway, but you could make nearly as good an argument that they would have wanted a new face too. We'll never know. But by not getting the Bond gig until 1995, Brosnan likely wound up doubling his 007 career output over what he would have had originally, had he donned the tux back in 1987.

[hilly]

Let's not forget how troubled TND's shoot was. I'm sure that had something to do with it.

 

 

From what I recall reading at the time, I think the problems on TND stemmed from Roger Spottiswoode, rather than the Broccolis. Judi Dench is very critical of him in her autobiography and, whilst Brosnan gamely tried to rally everyone and get the film made, I think the director was a source of a lot of the tension. Brosnan said as much when publicising TWINE, unfavourably comparing Spottiswoode to Michael Apted

[SecretAgentFan]

Oh, I did not read Dench´s autobiography.  What exactly did she say about him?

[hilly]

I can't remember the exact terms, but she was unhappy at last minute script changes being delivered to her house (sometimes the night before a scene) for her to learn, and Spottiswoode's attitude.

By the end of the shoot, she couldn't even bring herself to shake hands with him ( I do recall reading that he wanted to re-cast M, which, if true, probably wouldn't have endeared him to her).

Her book was published over 10 years after TND was released and she was still fairly scathing about him, so he must have really p'd her off!

[Mr_Wint]

I can't remember the exact terms, but she was unhappy at last minute script changes being delivered to her house (sometimes the night before a scene) for her to learn, and Spottiswoode's attitude.
By the end of the shoot, she couldn't even bring herself to shake hands with him ( I do recall reading that he wanted to re-cast M, which, if true, probably wouldn't have endeared him to her).
Her book was published over 10 years after TND was released and she was still fairly scathing about him, so he must have really p'd her off!

 
To bad they didn't listen to Spottiswoode then. She is terribly miscast as M and it just got worse after TND.

[Simon]

While I wouldn't know of Spottiswoode's contributions to the on-set dynamics, I believe there were some fairly stringent dates to work towards that made the shoot a challenge of Olympic proportions.

 

Filming started on 1st April I believe with a November release - eight months from start to end.  For the size of film and at that time, everyone was really under the cosh and so I can certainly imagine all the artistic temperaments flying.

 

Still, with all that pressure, a better film was made than the follow up that had a soft and fluffy on-set atmosphere and that which produced an equally soft and fluffy film.

[plankattack]

Have oft-said that I'm not a fan of TND. I feel it is an efficient, rather than inspired/original follow up to the feel-good-about-Bond-again GE. But......I greatly respect it's efficiency and proficiency and it is a perfect example of EON's assembly-line department churning out an action-packed, covered in that Bond-essence sheen, 2 hours in the cinema.

 

So.......I had no idea that Dame Judi felt as she did about Spottiswode. I have no idea if he was busy p'ing off the actors etc, but considering the circumstances, I give him great credit for ultimately turning out the end product that he did. The scripting and pre-production of TND was a nightmare, leaving cast and crew with constant script changes and filming scenes without sense of context. That the end-result is an as proficient and efficient as it is, is down to cast and crew, especially Brozza, and most importantly, Spottiswode.

 

I don't doubt that when he signed on to do the follow-up to GE, he probably expected EON, UA, whoever, to have their act together a little better than they did. 

[glidrose]

Oh, I did not read Dench´s autobiography.  What exactly did she say about him?

 
Dench says she got on well with Martin Campbell, but much less so with Spottiswoode. She was not happy that she'd be getting ten new pages of script for the next day late at night. Things came to a head during the looping sessions. Apparently RS was allegedly condescending to Dench during the looping sessions. He appeared surprised that she was very good at this. At one point Dench asked RS if he'd seen her the other day in Streatham. RS denied it. Dench said, "You know you did. I nearly ran you over." According to Dench, "At that minute Barbara Broccoli came out of the back and said, 'Pity you didn't accelerate and do the job for all of us.'"

Whoa!

 

Let's not forget how troubled TND's shoot was. I'm sure that had something to do with it.

From what I recall reading at the time, I think the problems on TND stemmed from Roger Spottiswoode, rather than the Broccolis. Judi Dench is very critical of him in her autobiography and, whilst Brosnan gamely tried to rally everyone and get the film made, I think the director was a source of a lot of the tension. Brosnan said as much when publicising TWINE, unfavourably comparing Spottiswoode to Michael Apted

But no doubt there were tensions among all and sundry. As MGW and BB were producers and ultimately in charge of the production I'm sure there had to have been some tension there, regardless of who was at fault.

 

While wouldn't know of Spottiswoode's contributions to the on-set dynamics, I believe there were some fairly stringent dates to work towards that made the shoot a challenge of Olympic proportions.

Absolutely.
 

Filming started on 1st April I believe with a November release - eight months from start to end.  For the size of film and at that time, everyone was really under the cosh and so I can certainly imagine all the artistic temperaments flying.

Exactly.
 

Still, with all that pressure, a better film was made than the follow up that had a soft and fluffy on-set atmosphere and that which produced an equally soft and fluffy film.

Also my sentiments.

[DavidJones]

Pierce said something like, "I knew it wasn't as good as the film before it, so you have to bang the drum that bit louder."

[SecretAgentFan]

Have oft-said that I'm not a fan of TND. I feel it is an efficient, rather than inspired/original follow up to the feel-good-about-Bond-again GE. But......I greatly respect it's efficiency and proficiency and it is a perfect example of EON's assembly-line department churning out an action-packed, covered in that Bond-essence sheen, 2 hours in the cinema.

 

So.......I had no idea that Dame Judi felt as she did about Spottiswode. I have no idea if he was busy p'ing off the actors etc, but considering the circumstances, I give him great credit for ultimately turning out the end product that he did. The scripting and pre-production of TND was a nightmare, leaving cast and crew with constant script changes and filming scenes without sense of context. That the end-result is an as proficient and efficient as it is, is down to cast and crew, especially Brozza, and most importantly, Spottiswode.

 

I don't doubt that when he signed on to do the follow-up to GE, he probably expected EON, UA, whoever, to have their act together a little better than they did. 

 

I don´t think that the production difficulties of TND were due to somebody "not having their act together".

 

It definitely was a major scramble to get the film ready for a release date that was just set too early.  Also everybody involved must have been scared of having this film not perform as well as "Goldeneye", so that will have added pressure by the studio.  

 

As for Spottiswoode - I do not have reliable info on his behaviour.  He had directed several good films, had the reputation of being a solid journeyman director.  Actors, of course, like to be pampered, and maybe he did not treat Dench like she wanted or expected to be treated.  Maybe he did not play along with the producers as well as he was expected to.  But I don´t believe that it was him asking for unnecessary script changes.  Actors, of course, hate script changes late in the game, but really - how much dialogue did M have in TND?  How much of that would have been too difficult to learn, especially for a stage actress like Dench who must have been adept at remembering dialogue?

 

So, take Dench´s words with a grain of salt.

[plankattack]

 

Have oft-said that I'm not a fan of TND. I feel it is an efficient, rather than inspired/original follow up to the feel-good-about-Bond-again GE. But......I greatly respect it's efficiency and proficiency and it is a perfect example of EON's assembly-line department churning out an action-packed, covered in that Bond-essence sheen, 2 hours in the cinema.

 

So.......I had no idea that Dame Judi felt as she did about Spottiswode. I have no idea if he was busy p'ing off the actors etc, but considering the circumstances, I give him great credit for ultimately turning out the end product that he did. The scripting and pre-production of TND was a nightmare, leaving cast and crew with constant script changes and filming scenes without sense of context. That the end-result is an as proficient and efficient as it is, is down to cast and crew, especially Brozza, and most importantly, Spottiswode.

 

I don't doubt that when he signed on to do the follow-up to GE, he probably expected EON, UA, whoever, to have their act together a little better than they did. 

 

I don´t think that the production difficulties of TND were due to somebody "not having their act together".

 

 

I know my words were a little harsh - the release schedule was very tight for sure, but my point was that the lack of a finished script was a, if not the, major factor, and for that, I think it's only fair that the production company, rather than director, are those "responsible."

 

I agree - Spottiswode had a solid resume, and on the face of it seemed a better fit for Bond than say, Apted, who came next. I just think it's a bit of bail-out for critics (including Dench maybe?) to just stick any issues at the director's feet. 

[Simon]

This last sentence is, I feel, spot on.  This of 'sticking issues at the director's feet.'

 

To be sure, the Producers are best placed to negotiate the delay to the release date.  This may of course just not be possible as the Studio may just stick its heals in due to quarterly and annual profit forecasts.  (God, doesn't just everyone have a master...?!)

 

Script changes are a fact of life.  In our lesser informed world, the script issues have notably hit LTK, TND and QoS due to strike actions et al.  Why did Spottiswoode and, I think it is fair to say, Forster get it in the neck for this?

 

But valiantly trying to go back to topic, with so many creative talents in such close proximity, and with so many bottomless pits of need, (quote from the Sony Director who was recently chopped) who really knows who got on with whom?  That Brosnan was as outspoken as he was (and correctly so I believe), means he may have later been given short shrift.  But then if so, he made his bed and has presumably lain in it.