17 replies to this topic

[RMc2]

Couldn't find the thread on this topic but really wanted to share this video!

 

 

 

Maybe one of the mods would kindly merge this with the main code-name thread? I'm sure it's around somewhere...

[AMC Hornet]

It seems that everyone who supports or debunks the code-name theory does so starting from the same premise: that MI6 changes their agent's name while he is still in active service (a la CR 67).

 

If I were to take the theory seriously - instead of just accepting that 007 is a constantly contemporary fictional character - I would accept that agent John Baines only gets referred to as James Bond in declassified documents after he has retired or died, and been replaced with Mortimer McHenry, who will likewise be referred to as James Bond when details of his time in service are released to the public. In this way MI6 retains the all-important legend of an indestructible 007 always at the ready.

 

The details about favorite drinks, clothes, cars and women are changed to martinis, Savile Row, Aston Martin and Tracy subsequently. Such lines are included in the books and films to maintain the continuity. No one in the field suspects that Baines, McHenry or Billy Snodgrass is 007 because he doesn't appear with these potentially fatal familiar trappings.

 

So the new agent doesn't go about introducing himself as "Bond - James Bond." He uses his own name or another cover name. It's only much later that survivors of encounters with him are supposed to conclude that this was 'actually' the legendary 007.

 

Which means we're always one agent behind in the movies, which perforce require some updating to keep them contemporary.

 

Quinn Martin's long-running TV series 'The FBI' featured Efrem Zimbalist Jr as Special Agent Louis Erskine, who was credited with cracking countless fact-based cases over the years. He was a composite character created to protect the anonymity of the FBI's top agents, both serving and retired. Is that so hard to comprehend?

 

Moreover, when Sam Mendes said that Skyfall brings Bond "full circle" he didn't mean that Craig's films have to wrap back around to Dr. No ("but what about the Aston Martin, which has already been destroyed? How can Q then introduce it in GF?" etc).  He just meant we now have Q, Moneypenny, a male M and the original office back, and I for one am glad of it.

 

As you get older and read more literature, you learn not to take everything so literally.

[DaveBond21]

Until Bond and M have an "interesting time" in Tokyo in Bond 25....

 

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[AMC Hornet]

Until Bond and M have an "interesting time" in Tokyo in Bond 25....

 

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...which he can bring up when they remake FRWL.

[David_M]

This would be a dumb strategy on MI-6's part.  The video says it would provide "safety," but the opposite would be true.  Over time, the name "James Bond" would become well-known to rival spy groups and organized crime and maybe even to the world at large (as, indeed, it seems to be in some films).  So using Bond, James Bond as a "cover name" would be the exact opposite of security; it would be announcing your affiliation and intentions.  Saying "My name is Bond" would be the same as saying, "Hello, I'm an agent of MI-6."  

 

If they've already got the "007" designation as a code name, why do they need another?

 

BTW, did the narrator say Brosnan was "sensitive and cozy" or "sensitive and pose-y?"  I suspect the former but the latter is more accurate.  And funnier.

[ChickenStu]

Of COURSE it's the same person. There's no argument to be had! I really really REALLY hate this stupid theory. 

[The*SPY*]

It's not a code name.  It's not the same person.  It is a concept of a character that has some fundamental traits and mannerisms.  And even then, the traits are modified such as when Craig became the first non-darked haired Bond (although Moore appears to have light brown hair compared to the black hair of Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Brosnan).

 

If any of the transitional actors were the same Bond I'd say it was Connery and Lazenby.  How could anyone say that Moore in AVTAK is the same Bond as Connery in DN? 

 

Anyone familiar with the recent Bond movie props exhibits could see the birthdates on identity cards has changed with the actor.  Hell, even Craig went from a 1967 birth year on the Casino Royale website to a 1971 birthyear in SPECTRE (The Order of Temporary Guardianship list him as 12 years old and the guardeianship start date as JAnuary 21, 1983).  How can the same character keep changing birthdates (or is that a theory to keep the enemy guessing as well?)

 

Nope.  If we all close our eyes and I say the names Santa Clause, Sherlock Holmes, or even God Himself, we all come up with a generally common image but if we could take those images and compare them side by side, we'd notice the variations and differences, thus making none of them the same.

 

Throw away any thought of continuity in the films.  They are merely escpist entertainment done very well and smartly modfifed to exist with the changing times.

[tdalton]

Of COURSE it's the same person. There's no argument to be had! I really really REALLY hate this stupid theory. 

 

Agreed.  It's clearly meant to be the same person, even with the drastic changes in the tones of the various eras.    

[B. Ret Smythe]

James Bond is the main character's codename because after YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE he goes on a holiday and george lazenby's character gets a call to fill in while he on leave.

 

He has to use the same office as Sean Connery's character and looks at all the junk connery has been keeping in the drawers. He gets the shits that he has been given such a messy office and decides to resign. 

 

Then at the start of DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER when connery is back he quite blatantly says he has been away on leave when getting his mission from the general from the persuaders at the start.

 

After this he gets married to jill st john and retires.

 

Then the general from the pesuaders calls in Lord sinclair from the persuaders and makes him into the new james bond.

 

This is why the persuaders only lasted one season because lord sinclair got promoted to James Bond 007. They couldnt make an episode about this because MI6 is secret documents.

 

This also explains why Pierce Brosnan is the only Bond to have control mines. Because it wasnt until 1995 that Remington Steele was given his new codename.

[Double Naught spy]

Flipping this ridiculous theory on its head:  It makes about as much sense as theorizing that General Gogol is secretly SPECTRE agent Morenzy!   

 

Of course, if the Code Name Theory turns out to be true, then one can only conclude that MI6 adopted it after seeing how successful the "Felix Leiter" codename proved to be for the CIA.

Edited by Double Naught spy, 17 July 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[dtuba]

Or, that Miss Anders didn't die at the hands of Scaramanga...She re-emerged as Octopussy.

 

Or, Brad Whittaker ends up working for the CIA under the nom de plume Jack Wade....

 

"The list is endless!"

[AMC Hornet]

Actually, I have already compiled that list, and I posted it elsewhere, under "Of course Robert Brown’s M was Admiral Hargreaves. Nothing else makes sense."

 

I'll post it again here if you can stand it like.

[Double Naught spy]

Oddly enough, as much as I'm against the 'code name' theory in the films, I'm totally for (mainly because I have a soft spot for all of Gardner and Benson's novels) the 'royal jelly' theory to account for the stagnation or retardation of Bond's apparent age as he enters the 21st century.  

[AMC Hornet]

Then the general from the pesuaders calls in Lord sinclair from the persuaders and makes him into the new james bond.

 

This is why the persuaders only lasted one season because lord sinclair got promoted to James Bond 007.

 

I suppose this means that Brett Sinclair was also a code name, one that Simon Templar adopted after handing his Saint persona over to Ian Ogilvy. Of course, Simon Templar must also be a code name, as he was active in the Forties, in the guise of George Sanders and Hugh Sinclair (Ah! So that's where Brett got his name!)...

[B. Ret Smythe]

Oh yeah that makes sense.

 

So roger moore's character has changed codenames 3 times. 

 

It also explains the change with Ian oglivy.

 

And then eventually Val Kilmer changed his codename from Batman to Simon Templar and George Clooney took on the Batman codename. But chris odonnell remained with the robin codename.

[AMC Hornet]

Don't be ridiculous, Red. 'Batman' isn't a code name - Bruce Wayne is the code name!

[Rufus Ffolkes]

How could anyone say that Moore in AVTAK is the same Bond as Connery in DN?

 

Actually, as far as timelines go, I think Connery, Lazenby and Moore are all meant to exist within one continuous era, with a thirtyish Bond in Dr. No to a Bond in his early-fifties in A View to a Kill - an idea reinforced by the fact that Moore visits Tracy's grave in For Your Eyes Only in 1981 and there's no attempt to fudge the dates on the gravestone.

 

Once they cast Dalton, the timeline resets for his tenure - though Dalton and Brosnan could exist within the same timeline - then resets again with Craig.

[AMC Hornet]

I've said that before. Glad to know I'm not alone.