Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

Felix?


50 replies to this topic

#1 Call Billy Bob

Call Billy Bob

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2917 posts
  • Location:Lawrence, Kansas, USA

Posted 29 August 2014 - 08:23 PM

Regardless if he's played by Jeffrey Wright or not, who else would like to see Felix Leiter back in Bond 24? You don't want to overuse him, but he's one of the best supporting characters in the canon and can positively impact the plot when given a chance. I, for one, would love to see our old CIA friend come back soon.



#2 007jamesbond

007jamesbond

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1371 posts
  • Location:Vancouver

Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:58 PM

I am sure he will return........since he did not appear in SF, I assume he will for Bond 24 



#3 HoneyDiamond

HoneyDiamond

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 60 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 11:30 PM

I might be alone, but I don't think he needs to be in one for a while.  Maybe only if they are set in USA. 



#4 Trip_Aces

Trip_Aces

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 59 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:26 AM

I agree, HoneyDiamond. It was cool to see Felix return in CR and QoS, but I still feel as if something about his character was amiss; in retrospect, I feel as though he was underutilized...which is a shame, considering Jeffrey Wright is such a talented actor.

 

New allies, please. Felix can sit out for the next one.



#5 sharpshooter

sharpshooter

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8996 posts

Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:57 AM

Felix would be a nice bonus. But if he's absent, it's not a deal breaker by any stretch.



#6 tdalton

tdalton

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11680 posts

Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:43 AM

Felix needs to return for Bond 24.  It already feels as though there are going to be too many unfinished or abandoned elements of the early Craig era (Quantum, the younger less experienced Bond, etc.), so having Felix return would be a good way to bridge the gap.  



#7 Call Billy Bob

Call Billy Bob

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2917 posts
  • Location:Lawrence, Kansas, USA

Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:15 PM

Provided he does return... should it be in an official CIA capacity, or as a favor to his friend James? I guess that would all depend upon the story, but I'm picturing a situation where Bond is up against it all and thinks "I need a little back-up for this one. Maybe Felix could help."



#8 Matt_13

Matt_13

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5969 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:27 PM

Only if Jeffrey Wright takes on the role will I want to see Leiter return.

#9 Major Tallon

Major Tallon

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2107 posts
  • Location:Mid-USA

Posted 03 September 2014 - 07:53 PM

I wouldn't go that far, Matt_13.  I like Wright a lot in the Leiter role, but every part from Leiter to Bond himself has been and will be re-cast many times over the course of these movies.  As much as I'd like to see Wright continue in the part, we have to accept the fact that the role will be recast at some point.



#10 Call Billy Bob

Call Billy Bob

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2917 posts
  • Location:Lawrence, Kansas, USA

Posted 03 September 2014 - 08:08 PM

Good call, Major. Wright is a fine, fine actor. But I always felt the change of actors was part of Felix's appeal in the older films - sort of "How will he be played next time?" Sure, Hedison coming back for LTK is the exception, but having a familiar Felix in that film made sense emotionally.

 

My dad always makes this comment about Felix: "It's good different actors played that part. Imagine if Jack Lord had gotten his way - the series would have become The Adventures of James and Felix!"



#11 dtuba

dtuba

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 573 posts
  • Location:Tacoma, WA, USA

Posted 05 September 2014 - 08:44 AM

I would like to see Jeffrey Wright back. But not in a huge part, maybe a small role where the two can meet, share some info, maybe have a a drink - Felix seemed so gloomy in both CR and QOS, so I'd like to see him and Bond share a lighter moment or two.

 

The Craig series seems to be taking characterization a little more seriously than before, so I doubt that Craig's Bond will see a rotating series of Felix Leiters.



#12 Walecs

Walecs

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Location:Italy

Posted 05 September 2014 - 09:19 AM

The Craig series seems to be taking characterization a little more seriously than before, so I doubt that Craig's Bond will see a rotating series of Felix Leiters.

 

I hope so. The actor's change for Felix is something which I can't stand about the old films. Either they get Wright as Felix, or I don't want to see him at all. I know that Bond films have never been a synonym for "continuity" and "consistency", but now that the series has been reboot, I can't see why the can't do it.



#13 thecasinoroyale

thecasinoroyale

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 14358 posts
  • Location:Basingstoke, UK

Posted 05 September 2014 - 01:44 PM

*Possible Unpopular Post Alert*

Felix has always been hit and miss with me. I loved the idea of Bond have a strong ally in his adventures and that one person he can count on to help provide back-up. His allegiances wasn’t blurred and he was great to see get involved as best he could, keeping the same character working with Bond to give their relationship over the years weight and lots of worth.

However casting was always a little hit and miss, it was like they just needed an American to play the part and I never knew when they couldn’t maintain at least SOME repeat performances where time would allow, like Jack Lord or even Cec Linder for Connery.

Hedison was nice for Moore to bounce off, and it’s a shame he couldn’t be used during the Moore era. As for John Terry in ‘The Living Daylights’…what the hell? Then to bring Hedison in again for ‘LTK’? Couldn’t they have done that for ‘TLD’ as well?!

Anyway I digress – Felix was ok in ‘Casino Royale’ and Wright did an ok job. Granted, it wasn’t TOO exciting, but they had that understanding for each other. Only to lose it in ‘QOS’ and Felix became a character who I found to be quite irritating in the respect he didn’t say or do much, appeared at all the right places, supped beer and moped around. Yes, I know there was the ‘gritty’ tone to Craig’s era about who is good and bad, but we KNOW how strong Bond and Felix are, but in ‘QOS’ it’s like there’s been a huge rift between them since ‘CR’ and they are reluctant to be allies until they had to be.

Felix needs to be brought up to a solid role again to help Bond but never act alongside him like a field operative, that would be too…un-Bond like with the American and UK agent leading the charge. Bond is a sole operative, let’s not forget.

Otherwise, if Felix wasn’t to appear, I can’t say I’d be fussed. Since the loss of him during the Brosnan era, I didn’t miss his character as I felt Hedison let us say goodbye in a sweet way in ‘LTK’ and Bond could operate without him in this new world.

Now however I feel he is just around to keep those original Bond touches there for Craig’s era. I don’t feel currently he is still relevant or needed after his lacklustre performance in ‘QOS’.



#14 tdalton

tdalton

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11680 posts

Posted 05 September 2014 - 04:32 PM

I have to disagree.  I think that it's essential for Felix to return in Bond 24, so that there's at least some continuity between Craig's first two films and the final couple of films of his tenure.  There's still some room to develop the friendship between the two characters.  I think the fact that they were at odds with each other to some degree in Quantum of Solace is perfectly understandable, since they had really just met within a relatively short time period, and now Bond is working in direct opposition to the interests of Felix and his bosses.  Still, Felix helps Bond, but has to put up a grumpy exterior about it because Beam is looking over his shoulder at just about every turn.  



#15 Call Billy Bob

Call Billy Bob

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2917 posts
  • Location:Lawrence, Kansas, USA

Posted 05 September 2014 - 04:37 PM

Agreed. Now that Felix is South American Section Chief (or whatever current job title he'll have by Bond 24), he has the ability to help 007 more readily. Whether that be through intelligence or manpower, Felix could have a vital role to play. Not to mention that he's one of my favorite characters.



#16 Guy Haines

Guy Haines

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3075 posts
  • Location:"Special envoy" no more. As of 7/5/15 elected to office somewhere in Nottinghamshire, England.

Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:06 AM

I don't think there was a huge rift between Bond and Leiter in Quantum of Solace. Consider - when we first see Leiter again aboard the executive jet with his boss Beam and the villains, he denies knowing who Bond is when shown a mobile phone image of him. Greene wants to CIA to kill Bond. Leiter doesn't want to help.

 

Leiter is clearly "unimpressed" with Greene and says so to Beam "You know who Dominic Greene is and you want us to get into bed with him? You are kidding, right?"

 

In QoS Leiter is caught between "valuing his career" with the CIA, as Beam reminds him, and his own deep unease at the idea of his side "getting into bed" with Greene. When Bond turns up in the La Paz bar, he's needling Leiter because the CIA, and MI6, have got it all wrong about Greene and Quantum. Leiter argues with him, but he knows he's right and reveals Greene's whereabouts.

 

Not, I admit, the kind of chummy relationship Bond and Leiter had in, say, Thunderball, but not evidence of a rift either, I think.



#17 sharpshooter

sharpshooter

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8996 posts

Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:50 AM

Seven years in real time is a solid stint for Felix to spend in South America, and it's understandable for him to want to try new things come Bond 25.



#18 DamnCoffee

DamnCoffee

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 24459 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:53 PM

 

As for John Terry in ‘The Living Daylights’…what the hell? 

 

I almost forgot about that. 



#19 AMC Hornet

AMC Hornet

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5857 posts

Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:35 PM

 

 

As for John Terry in ‘The Living Daylights’…what the hell? 

 

I almost forgot about that. 

 

That's easy to do. Terry was such a bland, underwritten non-entity in that film that I often forget to include him in the head count too.

 

The advantage to recasting Leiter frequently is evident in Thunderball and DAF (and even CR), where the audience sees a strange man watching Bond, then approaching him and you expect there'll be a confrontation, but it turns out to be his ol' CIA buddy (Fleming did the same thing in the books, when Bond would be informed that he'd be met by 'F. Larkin' or some other pseudonym).

 

Wright makes a fine Felix, but if the role is going to be an underwritten, token afterthought the writers may as well leave him out. None of the films he wasn't in suffered from his absence.



#20 Walecs

Walecs

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Location:Italy

Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:46 PM

Wright makes a fine Felix, but if the role is going to be an underwritten, token afterthought the writers may as well leave him out. None of the films he wasn't in suffered from his absence.

 

 

I think the same (infact, Leiter's presence in movies such as FRWL, OHMSS* and Skyfall would feel rather forced) and I even think that if we removed Felix from most of Bond movies (except in LTK, and possibly in QoS), they would still be as good.

 

*had Leiter been played always by the same actor in previous movies, he could have attended at Bond's marriage.


Edited by Walecs, 14 September 2014 - 07:47 PM.


#21 Turn

Turn

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6837 posts
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 15 September 2014 - 12:32 PM

If any film would have benefitted from having Leiter it would have been AVTAK. Think about it: Moore's last Bond movie, why not have a reappearance from the Felix he started the series with, Hedison, who would have made more sense there than in LTK with Dalton.

 

And with Bond operating in the U.S. it would have been more appropriate to have Felix as his contact rather than the bland nonentity that was Chuck Lee, probably one of the least memorable characters of the series. Was yet another sacrificial lamb for the story necessary, which is all he really was.



#22 dtuba

dtuba

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 573 posts
  • Location:Tacoma, WA, USA

Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:50 AM

 

 

As for John Terry in ‘The Living Daylights’…what the hell? 

 

I almost forgot about that. 

 

Bland and forgettable, yes...but at least Terry had a small but superficial resemblence to the Felix of the books? Tall, yes, "straw haired" possibly,  evidence of a Texas accent? Maybe?

Of course, his appearance was too small and superfluous to matter.



#23 Turn

Turn

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6837 posts
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:49 PM

Considering he was only in two short scenes, I don't get the venom directed at John Terry. He didn't stand out in the least, but he was effective for the small time he was in it. I bought him as a contemporary of the Dalton Bond.

 

By comparison, I find somebody like Cec Linder or Norman Burton much more distracting in worse ways because they are in their films for much longer and more involved. They are too close to how I'd actually imagine real CIA men from the time to be like, which I don't want in a fantasy like a Bond film. A great description I once heard were they were more like Bond's uncle than a somebody who would share an adventure.

 

For the timeless classic everybody perceives GF to be, Linder drags it down with his performance, from his goofy Caddyshack hat to his lines like "Let's get back to the hotel, I'm bushed," it grounds it more into the time it was made.



#24 AMC Hornet

AMC Hornet

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5857 posts

Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:37 PM

The purpose of the older Leiters is to make the aging star appear younger in comparison.

 

That works in films like DAF and LTK. If Jeffrey Wright starts looking noticeably younger than Craig, don't expect him back - they'd more likely cast Bernie Casey instead.



#25 Guy Haines

Guy Haines

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3075 posts
  • Location:"Special envoy" no more. As of 7/5/15 elected to office somewhere in Nottinghamshire, England.

Posted 17 September 2014 - 06:53 AM

Concerning AVTAK, and Turn's suggestion of Felix Leiter appearing in it, my understanding is that David Hedison was originally going to appear in the movie, but it couldn't happen for some reason. It would have made sense given the US locations in the film's second half, and a nice touch with Hedison's Leiter in at the start of the Moore era and at the end of it.

 

The problem I had with David Hedison's appearance in LTK is that he looked quite a bit older than Dalton's Bond - as indeed he is, being a contemporary of Roger Moore (both born in 1927). There was an age difference of almost twenty years between them. I would have preferred Hedison to have returned in AVTAK and have had a new Leiter, perhaps played by a fairly well known American actor around Dalton's age, in LTK.



#26 AMC Hornet

AMC Hornet

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5857 posts

Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:39 PM

If John Terry had got his leg chewed off, audiences might have cheered...



#27 dtuba

dtuba

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 573 posts
  • Location:Tacoma, WA, USA

Posted 18 September 2014 - 07:42 PM

We've had some decent Leiters (Lord, Hedison,Wright) but the Fleming-created image of Leiter ("straw-haired Texan", etc) has never really been realized in the films.


Edited by dtuba, 18 September 2014 - 07:43 PM.


#28 Call Billy Bob

Call Billy Bob

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2917 posts
  • Location:Lawrence, Kansas, USA

Posted 18 September 2014 - 08:06 PM

I've thought a lot about this as well. Especially when I was younger, as I had a friend growing up whose father was a US Marshall. Apart from the location (this man was from Oklahoma), he was always the perfect representation of the literary Felix to me: straw-haired American lawman from the southwest.



#29 Turn

Turn

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6837 posts
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:15 PM

Van Nutter in TB was probably the closest to Fleming's physical description, although it pretty much ends there. They seem more like associates than friends or agents who've shared adventures. Although I like him, this Leiter seems more like another Bond assistant, a sort of yes man rather than being resourceful, except for coordinating Bond's rescue from the cave.



#30 Call Billy Bob

Call Billy Bob

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2917 posts
  • Location:Lawrence, Kansas, USA

Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:57 PM

Agreed, Turn. If Felix were to come back, he needs to be integral to the plot - not just some stock American ally character that could really be played by anyone.