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Die Another Day's Redeeming Qualities Are...?


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#1 Trevelyan 006

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:23 AM

Now, before I get crucified and ultimately excommunicated for just the title of this topic alone, let me explain.

 

Seeing as Die Another Day is virtually (pun intended) the most disliked Bond film of the series, after watching the film on Blu-ray for the first time today, I was reminded of some of the films redeemable qualities. Yes, you indeed heard correctly. Which raised the question of, what are some of your favorite Die Another Day qualities, if you had to state some? That's right, a forcing of the hand. Seeing as this is the case, I'll step up to the plate first.

 

In my opinion, some of the redeeming qualities of Die Another Day are:

 

- Brosnan's final outing comes with his most confident performance yet.

- The soundtrack keeps the fast-paced action alive throughout the film.

- The fencing first-blood match scene between Bond and Graves.

- Seeing previous Q-Branch equipment on screen one last time.

- Cuba being used as a filming location.

- "I'm checking out! Thanks for the kiss of life."

- "No?" Bond punches the Los Organos patient out, "You do now!"

- The gun barrel sequence signifying forty years of Bond with the bullet hitting its target. 


Edited by Trevelyan 006, 12 August 2014 - 12:23 AM.


#2 AMC Hornet

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:09 AM

Is that all you can come up with?

 

I'm the other one in your corner, Alec, but be prepared for this thread to get hijacked by those well-meaning souls who will try to correct our misguided enthusiasm.

 

The bullet in the gun barrel: sacrilege! Or..."yes, this is the twentieth film in a forty-year-old series - expect more of the same, but we'll be throwing you a few new curves this time, such as - this!

 

Madonna theme song: works so well with the titles. Like GoldenEye, the titles are used to advance the story. Well done, Danny!

 

Bedraggled Bond: ended just when I was starting to wonder how much longer it was going to go on.

 

Q Branch: Memory Lane. I'd seen a lot of the same relics at the traveling exhibit in Vancouver in '04.

 

Aston Martin Vanish: the boffins are still closer to perfecting this technology than they are to perfecting the convertible Lotus submarine.

 

Gene replacement therapy: far fetched? Can you say 'build six space shuttles and their launching platforms in total secrecy and rendezvous at a 200-metre station in orbit which no one knows is there because it has a radar jamming system?' I knew you could.

 

The Icarus satellite: Just because it was financed with conflict diamonds doesn't mean it was covered with them, a la Blofeld's model. If you don't  believe me, just look at the bloody thing.

 

Ramping zooms and slow-mo: Sure, let's tell every director to direct exactly the way John Glen did.

 

CGI parasurfing: fair enough. Still, that and Jinx's dive are the only two wonky effects. It's not fair to condemn the rest on account of it, especially given how many effects went unnoticed (which is what successful SFX are supposed to do).

 

Jinx: (Lecherous thoughts deleted). C'mon - who would you rather see, Grace Jones?

 

Robosuit: Moon/Graves was an egocentric narcissist - of course he would not be content operating the world's most powerful laser from a keyboard in a suitcase.

 

Etc, etc. I know it's the vogue, since Daniel Craig took over, to claim that you always hated Pierce Brosnan, but that's like packing away your white three-piece suit, platform shoes and pimp jewellery in 1980 and claiming that you never liked Disco.

 

Count me as a proud supporter of DAD (or DUD, or BAD, or whatever you want to call it). I have a thick skin, and a BlueRay DVD that I break out every December. I can take it.



#3 Matt_13

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:42 AM

Things are more than bearable right up until Bond arrives at the Ice Palace. Everything collapses after that.



#4 AMC Hornet

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:48 AM

It's started already.



#5 Guy Haines

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:45 AM

I liked all four of the Pierce Brosnan films. That's right, all four. (And don't forget, TWINE gets a fair share of flack too!) DAD is of course the most "fantastical" of the quartet, but I didn't find it quite as far fetched as some films which had preceded it. The technology allowing a vehicle to camouflage so as to seem invisible exists, as of course does gene therapy - all the film did was embellish them a bit. I didn't get the cringe feeling when the Aston Martin disappeared then re-appeared. Maybe because it was set against white snow and ice, with no incredulous and drunken tourists, let alone double taking animals watching the action.

 

Redeeming features -most have been listed above, although I wasn't quite as keen on the CGI as some. But I liked the Bond v Graves sword fight. And John Cleese's Q - if one was expecting a manic Basil Fawlty type in charge of Q branch or the hapless butt of Q's comments in TWINE, not at all. He's more like a sarcastic schoolmaster dealing with a rebellious pupil named Bond. And it was a nice touch at the end - Moneypenny finally gets her man, or rather, not.

 

Jinx has been mentioned but not Miranda Frost - beautiful, with a cut glass English accent, but in the end a treacherous. nasty piece of work. She and Graves reinforced all those Hollywood stereotypes about British accent equals villainy.

 

I think we tend to hone in on one or two flaws and they affect the way we view something. I'm guilty of it when it comes to, say, MR, although aside from the cringe-worthy visual humour the problem I have with that film is that I found it frankly unbelievable, even when suspending disbelief as one almost always does with Bond, that a space station could be built secretly and that a space battle could be fought out in a Bond film with hand held laser pistols. The frequently mentioned flaws of DAD involve CGI, but the main one - parasurfing - is over quickly.

 

This thread made me think of a line from GE - Brosnan's Bond to Robbie Coltrane's Zhukovsky - "The trick wasn't hitting your knee but missing the rest of you.". With DAD, the trick isn't missing the flaws but enjoying the rest of the film.



#6 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:19 AM

DAD is one of the most successful Bond films.  The "disappointing"-tag is mainly a message board-idea.  

 

Of course, if one prefers Bond films to be straight, down-to-earth thrillers, DAD will not fit into that category.  

 

But if you ask about DAD´s qualities - how about this one: it´s consistently entertaining and fun.  It really is Brosnan´s "Moonraker".


Edited by SecretAgentFan, 12 August 2014 - 07:20 AM.


#7 Colossus

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:11 AM

it definitely is

 

also broz's assured performance.



#8 Orion

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:04 PM

I think Die Another Day is quite good if you like that kind of Bond film, they can't all be gritty thrillers.

 

- The performances are all good, as mentioned constantly in this thread Brosnan is particularly good.

 

-The Blades sword fight is one of Brosnans best fight scenes.

 

-David Arnolds score keeps the pace and style throughout.

 

-The production design is incredible.

-It is an admiral attempt in places to use some of the unused elements from the books
 



#9 DamnCoffee

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:22 PM

There is something about Die Another Day, I have to admit. It's a bloody terrible film, but I guess it's fun in places. Graves has a cool death. It's hearts in the right place sometimes, but overall it's a way to waste an afternoon. It's not brilliant, and for the 40th Anniversary film it's a very poor attempt, but you know, it's better than The World Is Not Enough...



#10 glidrose

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:49 PM

I like the first half. Lots of great sequences and moments. Then goes to rot in Iceland.

I like Jinx's dive. I like the title song & credits. I like the CGI bullet. Hey, at least the gun barrel logo goes at the start of the film. The gene replacement therapy idea/subplot is brilliant.

 

...and I think this is one of the few films in the series that has three-dimensional characterisations. So there!


Edited by glidrose, 13 August 2014 - 11:07 PM.


#11 plankattack

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:08 PM

redeeming qualities are.......few and far between. Ta dum.

I've been more than happy to put the boot in over the years, and I am unrepentant on being mortified by CGI bullets and invisible cars.

But, I'm going to give a shout out to Bond and M in Vauxhall Cross, a nice change from being in regular MI6 digs, and it's a scene played well by both Brozza and Dame Judi. Pike is very good, and it's not Yune's fault that Zao is underwritten and underused. And there are one or two lines that up there with any in the series - always fond of Graves' disappointment with the control case for the laser.

It does take a decent stab at being a completely OTT YOLT-MR Bond film and to be fair, it's as much hurt by the times rather than what it actually is (i.e. - you can't get away with being a comic-book Bond film when you're surrounded by films of actual comic books). The first half does have something going for it and some of the references are very subtle and quite endearing.

But....for me, DAD is always done in by the details, and that's the usual list of suspects that get rolled out.

One thing that's rarely discussed but mentioned in this thread is Arnold's score. I don't think much of it, not following his TWINE score which I really enjoy, but I do agree, it's never something I'm going to use to beat DAD over the head with. And I do admit, I've done my share of that....!!!

#12 Grard Bond

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 10:43 PM

DAD is a fun Bondmovie to watch.

 

I like the first half hour, with a lot of serious, good stuff (Bond is captured, the first and second meeting with M, the whole Cuba sequence), the fenching scene, Jinx walking out of the sea, the car chase on the ice, Berry in the leather outfit and the great performance of Brosnan, who realy owned the part .

 

I don't like the awfull CGI, the invisible car and the poor performance of Berry (an Oscar winning actress? Realy?)



#13 Turn

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:20 PM

I don't find DAD as fun as TND or other epics like anything goes epics like MR, but since 2002 I still find it more enjoyable than the plodding TWINE and a decent watch despite several flaws. If ever a film could be described as a mixed bag this may be it.



#14 Iceskater101

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:37 PM

I think each Bond movie has redeeming qualities to it even though there might be some more poor aspects of the film. Die Another Day definitely has it's poor moments but yet it does have some interesting qualities as well. I personally really enjoyed the opening sequence with the chase on the hover crafts. I thought it was fun and exciting! I also really love the shooting at the ice palace. I think that is absolutely fantastic and the fact that Bond is going to new places in this film is really exciting.



#15 Janus Assassin

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:05 PM

They should have eliminated the ice dragster scene/parasurfing all together. Should have went from escape the biodomes straight to the car chase.



#16 mr ling

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:51 PM

I do not think DAD is a bad Bond film, far from it. It,s action packed, great characters and acting and most of all every scene is full of homages to past Bond films. Unless you know them all most will not be realised by those new to Bond or have only seen the recent films. The one big let down is the ice cliff and tsunami scene. It is too fantastical and cartoonish for Bond to escape that way. Plus the CGI of Bond surfing the wave is much  like a cartoon. The producers must have hated to include it when viewed. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall then. I greatly admire what they wanted to achieve and mostly did with this film. A fantastic 40 years celebration of Bond films, But having watched the Bourne films and with a Fleming book they now had the rights for, a change of direction had to be the way forward.  It was just the sudden way Peirce was dumped when he was all ready to go forward with another Bond. He is a great Bond. 



#17 00Kevin

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:24 AM

a few that stand out for me, probably it's all been mentioned before

 

-David Arnold's music. the man's scores could make any film watchable, so it seems

-the first half of the film works for me. I enjoyed the north korea and cuba segments especially

-the whole bond being a prisoner was fresh and seemed to give the story a great start

-the sword fight

-the car chase, it was great to finally see bond go toe to toe with someone else with a cool car

-as a bond fan, I have no problem with all of the references to past films

-The acting performances of Pierce Brosnan and Judy Dench



#18 RedsBaron

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:29 AM

I liked the opening scene in DAD when Bond and other agents surf into North Korea. I liked most of the scenes in Cuba. Miranda Frost was good. The Blades sword fight was good.

However, for me DAD remains one of the five worst James Bond movies ever made, ranking with Diamonds Are Forever, The Man With The Golden Gun, A View To A Kill and You Only Live Twice. Each of those films had their good points, but I still find the flaws to exceed the virtues.  



#19 AMC Hornet

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:34 PM

... DAD remains one of the five worst James Bond movies ever made, ranking with Diamonds Are Forever, The Man With The Golden Gun, A View To A Kill and You Only Live Twice.

You just named four of my all-time favorites, although admittedly YOLT was a bit bonkers (but impressively so!).

 

Everyone already knows which one I'm not including (not bonkers enough, I suppose).



#20 Iceskater101

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:49 PM

 

... DAD remains one of the five worst James Bond movies ever made, ranking with Diamonds Are Forever, The Man With The Golden Gun, A View To A Kill and You Only Live Twice.

You just named four of my all-time favorites, although admittedly YOLT was a bit bonkers (but impressively so!).

 

Everyone already know which one I'm not including (not bonkers enough, I suppose).

 

 

I actually do enjoy the Man with the Golden Gun, glad to know someone else enjoys it too.

 

I mean it's all a matter of opinion, everyone is going to hate one Bond movie that others tend to really enjoy.



#21 AMC Hornet

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 05:00 PM

Glad to be sharing the same corner, Iceskater.

 

For me, TMWTGG means:

 

Hong Kong and Thai scenery;

Christopher Lee;

The Golden Gun itself;

Christmas 1974.

 

The fact that all Bond succeeded in doing was to keep solar power in the vault for another decade or two is irrelevant.

 

This has to be one of the more 'fun' films, with Bond and Scaramanga mano y mano, without the world at stake (Skyfall was the same, and reminiscent of GG, yet it gets all the praise for being ground-breaking - go figure). I love the car chase (can you tell?), even with J.W. blustering away. I love the music - brisk at times, sombre and doom-laden when appropriate (John Barry cracked all that out in only three weeks - could anyone have done better?).

 

So Britt Eckland had a limited acting range in those early days - there wasn't much to her character, and I wasn't listening to her so much as watching her anyway.

 

TMWTGG is one of my December specials, along with OHMSS, DAF, NSNA and DAD; all are special to me, and reminiscent of Christmases past (time well wasted).



#22 Professor Pi

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 05:26 PM

It has a lot going for it in the first hour, I thought they were on their way to a perfect Bond film.  When Bond meets M at the abandoned Underground, it's all feeling fresh and in a new direction.  After that, Q comes in with every gadget of any Bond film from 40 years on display, and we slip back into Moonraker and YOLT preposterousness.  If instead, they had ditched the invisible car, or made a joke of it like FYEO's burglar protected Lotus, and launched an army attack on the ice palace, it could have played out like Thunderball.  Like its two predecessors, DAD's dialogue makes me wince more and more now.  I feel the same about TND, great first hour, predictable final hour.  TWINE also failed in its finale, but at least tried something different.  The "I never miss" line would have been an ending fitting a Fleming book, but no, we still had to have a nuclear submarine and that bawdy Christmas joke.  Die Another Day's ending could as well have been Austin Powers.



#23 AMC Hornet

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 06:21 PM

Damn Mike Myers for providing an example to compare Bond movies to.

 

I enjoyed International Man of Mystery, but The Spy Who Shagged Me took everything that could be criticized in a Bond film and made it worse, while Goldmember took everything wrong about its predecessor and made that worse.



#24 Iceskater101

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

Yeah I love Christopher Lee and I love the scenes in the fun house, I think they are very entertaining!



#25 RufusCobb

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 01:16 AM

Die Another Day's Redeeming Qualities Are ...?

 

It isn't QOS or Skyfall.



#26 Iceskater101

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

Wow have a hateful relationship with Quantum or Skyfall?



#27 Hansen

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 06:39 PM

Since SF, I tend to enjoy more DAD. As already mentionned, the start until the Iceland is pretty good, especially the scenes in Cuba (I not a huge fan of the sword fight - seems to come from nowhere).

To me, the true low-point in the Film is Tamahori's direction : uninspired with poor and flashy effects. It truly deserves the film



#28 jamie00007

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:49 AM

I really do like Brosnan's performance. Its a breezy, confident and laid back performance so unlike how he portrayed Bond in the rest of his films (TND came close I guess). Kind of reminds me of Thunderball era Connery. Aside from that, theres really nothing I can think of. Even good stuff in the film is tarnished by the awful. For instance I really like a lot of the Cuba scenes, but the whole sequence is really ruined by the Jinx beach and sex scenes (my votes for worst ever Bond scenes) and that awful CGI cliff jump. I did used to find the sword fight a highlight of the film but the more Ive seen the film the more it annoys me how pointless and out-of-nowhere it is and how out of character both characters are.



#29 Call Billy Bob

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 03:45 AM

I enjoy the Cuba scenes. The cigar factory/rooftop in particular. It seems like such a waste that a country that looks so great on film (ex. Godfather Part II) would be squandered by questionable choices with the remainder of the movie. But Bond driving along the coast is still one of my favorite shots in all the Brosnan films.



#30 tdalton

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 05:14 AM

If I had to pick a redeeming quality about Die Another Day, I'd say that it would be the fact that it was so bad that it led to Craig's casting and Casino Royale.  

 

As for the film itself, I guess everything up until Jinx does her backwards dive off of the cliff could qualify as its redeeming quality.  Things were going pretty good up until that point, but once they actually introduced the film's villain, everything completely fell off the rails.