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It Seems Like There's More QoS Fans than I thought Before


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#1 Dramatic_Scenes_of_QOS

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:12 AM

Look at this reenactment of the last scene: youtu.be/XynG-5kxM_g

 

It shows that there's more people out there who really like QoS.


Edited by Jim, 21 March 2014 - 06:00 AM.
Probable copyright violation


#2 Jim

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:44 AM

You always hurt the one you love,

The one you shouldn't hurt at all.



#3 sharpshooter

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:08 AM

I think QoS is one of those underappreciated, almost hidden, gems. I think especially as time goes on. We'll have a noticeably younger looking Craig for one. CR and SF and probably his other remaining films will be main 'go tos', being 2 hour 20 minute types. QoS will stand out from his era, but for me not as a black sheep. I dig its distinct individual style (title cards, brisk pace) and just can't agree it's ashamed to be a Bond movie. It has quite a cool Bond style, the image of Bond wearing sunglasses, relaxing at the back of a speedboat en route to Mathis' villa instantly comes to mind.



#4 Turn

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:58 PM

I think the common perception of QoS is it's a letdown after the smashing CR. Enough so to see it near the bottom of a number of people's Bond film lists, made probably worse due to the huge success of Skyfall.

 

The friend I saw QoS with when it came out said the same thing as the credits rolled about not being as good as CR. While I admit it's not the ultimate follow-up on a grand scale, it's still a solid film and one I don't find to get worse on repeated viewings and like revisiting.

 

This could go in the unorthodox opinions thread, but I like QoS more than SF at this point. I haven't even watched SF in its entirety since buying the Blu-ray a year ago, just a few scenes like Silva's entrance. None of the fights in that come close to the hand-to-hand with Slate or the escape in the elevator, nor do any of the chases come close to the chase and fight with Mitchell, which rivals the Parkour scene in CR. And I'll go a step further and suggest I like the Tosca scenes for their suspense more than the attack on M at the hearing.

 

I think it depends on what the next two Craig films are like that may determine how QoS is viewed in the future. But like Sharpshooter I think it will be due for reevaluation down the line and people may see more than they did.  



#5 tdalton

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:49 PM

Sadly, I don't see there being a re-evaluation of Quantum of Solace.  There is just too much vitriol directed toward the film from pretty much every side (critics, regular moviegoers, Bond fans, etc.) for there to be much of a chance of anything like that happening.  Even in threads where Quantum of Solace isn't even a topic, you'll see comments like "well, at least it didn't suck as bad as Quantum of Solace".  I think that's a shame, since I find Quamtum of Solace to be a better film than either of Craig's other two, and the best Bond film in the last two decades, but I doubt it'll ever be recognized as anything more than the black sheep of the Bond franchise when it comes to any kind of a general consensus.



#6 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:58 PM

Wait for it.  I´m pretty sure that OHMSS was pretty much hated by many, if not most people in the following ten years or so.  LTK suffered the same fate.

 

In time, people will yield to QOS´ qualities.  B)



#7 tdalton

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

I wouldn't really say that Licence to Kill has seen a re-evaluation.  It's still viewed by most as one of the worst of the franchise.  I think that On Her Majesty's Secret Service is about the only film that we've seen make a major jump in opinion within the fan community, but ask anyone outside of the community and it's still labeled as "terrible". 



#8 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:31 PM

True, OHMSS really has risen from shameful stepchild to favorite son within the Bond films.

 

But LTK was ridiculed and despised by so many during the 90´s.  And now it has definitely gained the "respectable"-status, if not the "secret lovechild"-award.

 

In the end, people´s opinions will always be divided on every Bond film.  And these opinions will change all the time.  "Goldfinger" was championed by the majority of reviewers and fans for the longest time.  Nowadays, its flaws have been recognized more and more.  I get the feeling that "From Russia With Love" has become the favorite now, followed by "OHMSS".



#9 glidrose

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:10 AM

True, OHMSS really has risen from shameful stepchild to favorite son within the Bond films.

 

But LTK was ridiculed and despised by so many during the 90´s.  And now it has definitely gained the "respectable"-status, if not the "secret lovechild"-award.

 

In the end, people´s opinions will always be divided on every Bond film.  And these opinions will change all the time.  "Goldfinger" was championed by the majority of reviewers and fans for the longest time.  Nowadays, its flaws have been recognized more and more.  I get the feeling that "From Russia With Love" has become the favorite now, followed by "OHMSS".

 

Can't agree with you there. OHMSS got fairly good reviews upon first release. There's a relevant thread somewhere on these fora. Fleming purists loved it back then. Audiences were rather mixed, tho'.

 

LTK came out to fairly good reviews, in fact a number of critics claimed it was the best Bond film in years. But those who disliked it hated it with a passion. It was and remains a polarising Bond film.

 

So all things being equal, QOS's reputation should remain the same, give or take a percentage point or five.



#10 sharpshooter

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:14 AM

I haven't even watched SF in its entirety since buying the Blu-ray a year ago, just a few scenes like Silva's entrance. None of the fights in that come close to the hand-to-hand with Slate or the escape in the elevator, nor do any of the chases come close to the chase and fight with Mitchell, which rivals the Parkour scene in CR. And I'll go a step further and suggest I like the Tosca scenes for their suspense more than the attack on M at the hearing.

This is the same experience for me, too. I prefer Skyfall as a whole but haven't really re-watched the whole thing since buying it. Just pieces here and there, particularly the Silva introduction. 

 

The Opera scene is the standout for me, along with the car chase. The quieter moments of the film are also strengths. Drunken Bond on the plane with Mathis, Bond changing Fields' hotel choice, Mathis' death scene and the sinkhole chat with Camille.

 

If Bond 24 contains references to Quantum, Craig's second outing could be strengthened by association. 



#11 glidrose

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:19 AM

I also have SF on DVD but haven't done more than watch the PTS and titles. And tho' I still think QOS is a misfire, I do admit it has lots of great moments and ideas. Shame about the script and the horrible editing. For the record, I'm willing to accept the editing in the action sequences despite my better judgment. What I cannot abide is how the dialogue scenes are cut. Breaking the 180 degree line & the line of interest. A big no-no when people are talking.



#12 sharpshooter

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:55 AM

Shame about the script and the horrible editing.

It's definitely a bit too shaky for my liking during the boat chase. I can swallow it easier during the other sequences, though.



#13 tdalton

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:12 AM

All things being equal, the way that Quantum of Solace is edited isn't the way that I would have done it if it were up to me.  That said, it's not nearly as bad as it's made out to be here and elsewhere.  I don't even think it's the worst editing in the franchise.

 

As already said, there are a lot of great moments in Quantum of Solace.  The foot chase, Tosca, Bond changing the hotels, Mathis' death, the quarry scene, Fields' death (the one reference in the past few films that actually works well, even if it's a bit on the nose), the elevator escape, the finale at the Perla de las Dunas, and the confrontation with Yusef.  There's just so much to like in the film that I can't put either of Craig's other films ahead of it (especially Skyfall).  It's a far better film than anything from the Brosnan Era as well.



#14 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:40 AM

I've never been embarrassed to rate this movie highly in the franchise. Sure it's got issues, but it's also very ambitious in continuing the cinematic quest to get inside the darker regions of Bond's mind. It also has a social conscience in the way it uses a real world problem and painst a picture of it nicely - the Bolivian people running out of water; big corps exploiting them; big world powers facilitating that.

 

On a re-watch the opera scene is one of the strongest scenes of any Bond movie. The performance is utilised perfectly to symbolise the secret society/illuminati-esque meeting occurring throughout the audience; a giant eye overlooking them no less. Craig's dry delivery as he interupts the meeting is sardonic and witty.

 

Then the Pièce de résistance: The hero and villain coming face to face on the stairwell, underscored dramatically by the opera, is so bloody cool i cheer out loud. The muted gunfight that follows, still underscored by the opera is brave and original for Bond and elevates the franchise into art movie territory without sacrificing any of the motif's etc - it's still 100% Bond - not an easy feat to pull of.

 

I miss-rembered this gunfight as being in slow-mo... That's because the Bond/Greene face to face with the opera score is such a powerful, thrilling moment that time really does seem to slow down after that and feels like slow-mo, even though it's not. Honestly, to achieve that is really very good direction and editing. Sure Forster's long time editor Matt Chesse is on a learning curve with some of the complex action (boat chase/freefall) but what he does amazingly is wonderfully tense and artistic moments like this face to face/gunfight. That's a trade off i'm happy to make and i think it's a trade off Fleming would've welcomed since it's only the movies that made the action the most important element; Fleming didn't write action novels, he wrote thrillers.

 

The cold reptilian/aristocratic way that Greene then orders the death of the Special Branch man who landed on his car ends a beyond perfect set piece. 

 

Greene's reptillian death in the dessert, only reported to us after the fact, with the engine oil in his stomach bringing closure is wonderfully understated. The real closure with Vesper's lover is likewise a sombre end to a dark chapter.

 

I think this movie will age well.


Edited by Odd Jobbies, 28 February 2014 - 10:56 AM.


#15 ChickenStu

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:53 PM

Whilst I am not all that keen on this one - I would NEVER EVER disrespect one's choice of film or favourite entry in the series. Everybody has their Bond and their film. 

 

If someone is enthusiastic about The Man With The Golden Gun, A View To A Kill, Die Another Day, Quantum Of Solace or whatever - the way I see it is "Well, at least SOMEONE gets something out of them!" and it always spurs me on to try and watch them from as fresh a perspective as possible - encourages me to look for positives - whenever November comes around and it's time for my annual marathon.

 

Since I'm quite partial to Moonraker (one particular entry that gets quite routinely slammed by others) I think it would not be fair of me to cast an eye of criticism on the choice of another - whether it's my cup of tea or not. 



#16 David_M

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:18 PM

I can't imagine I'll ever warm to QoS in a big way.  My objections have nothing to do with the plot (though it's not very interesting), performances (everyone does a fine job, considering) or any controversial twists (Mathis in the dumpster...whatever).  I just think it's a sloppily made film.  I can't follow the action AT ALL in about 90% of the action sequences, and there are an awful lot of action sequences.  Every time people stop running and punching and shooting, the dialog scenes are good to great, and the cinematography is often excellent.  Basically if they cut out all the action scenes and replaced them with cards that said things like "Bond Chases Traitor" and "Bond Escapes in Boat" I'd like the whole thing much better.

 

That said, I do have hopes that QoS will turn out, in the end, to be a film like LTK or TMWTGG, which is to say an entry I ignore for years and then come back to one day figuring, "what the heck, I know it's not one of the better ones, but it's something to watch."  And maybe then QoS, like those others, will yield some golden moments to linger over here and there and enjoy.  As mentioned above, there's the fact that as Craig ages (fast!) he starts to look better and better in the earlier entries just by comparison.  Plus his wardrobe in QoS is the best of all his films, and his hair looks presentable for once.  And those cool "location" titles, and the music's okay.  Yes, it could be one of those entries where it's fun to study all the pieces and imagine what might have been done with them if assembled differently.

 

But the key to making that plan work is to spend a few more years away from it first.  And this I solemnly vow to do.



#17 Dramatic_Scenes_of_QOS

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:01 AM

Whilst I am not all that keen on this one - I would NEVER EVER disrespect one's choice of film or favourite entry in the series. Everybody has their Bond and their film. 

 

If someone is enthusiastic about The Man With The Golden Gun, A View To A Kill, Die Another Day, Quantum Of Solace or whatever - the way I see it is "Well, at least SOMEONE gets something out of them!" and it always spurs me on to try and watch them from as fresh a perspective as possible - encourages me to look for positives - whenever November comes around and it's time for my annual marathon.

 

Since I'm quite partial to Moonraker (one particular entry that gets quite routinely slammed by others) I think it would not be fair of me to cast an eye of criticism on the choice of another - whether it's my cup of tea or not. 

 

 

I have never seen Quantum of Solace paired with the movies you listed above, but I respect your opinion.



#18 Binyamin

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:57 PM

I recently re-watched Quantum after coming across it on cable, and you know what, it gets BETTER with repeat viewing.

One thing I noticed this time around: The script isn't a problem. For all of the attention that the writers strike received, the dialog and plot are fine. 
It's the editing. What they SHOT on film was great; what came out the other end of the editing machine was something less.

I do wish it was edited more conservatively, but at least it has style. Bold over bland. And as mentioned, it improves considerably once you already know the plot and can just enjoy it without worry.



#19 FlemingBond

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:34 PM

The funny thing is when QOS came out I read comments here that it was the best Bond movie ever, people comparing it to FRWL, etc. My reaction at the time was that I liked it, there was nothing exactly wrong with it (as far as too much comedy or something) , it just felt a little short. I ranked it something like 17th on my list of Bond movies.

In the past year I've warmed to the movie. I mean I don't think it's one of the best, but I really like a lot of the things about it. I like the music, I like the little scene's like when Bond is drinking on the plane because he's still upset over Vesper. I like the realism of the violence. It's still to me sort of a coda to Casino Royale,,,but I really like it.

We never got a real follow up to OHMSS with Bond dealing with grief, so QOS is the closest thing



#20 Dramatic_Scenes_of_QOS

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:02 PM

I've also noticed a lot of fans liking how QoS touches on a subject that a lot of people deal with through life: finding solace even if the ones you miss just can't be there for whatever reason. Closure came for Bond although there are still some cool loose ends and most fans would like to see Camille again, given the trauma she and Bond went through.


I recently re-watched Quantum after coming across it on cable, and you know what, it gets BETTER with repeat viewing.

One thing I noticed this time around: The script isn't a problem. For all of the attention that the writers strike received, the dialog and plot are fine. 
It's the editing. What they SHOT on film was great; what came out the other end of the editing machine was something less.

I do wish it was edited more conservatively, but at least it has style. Bold over bland. And as mentioned, it improves considerably once you already know the plot and can just enjoy it without worry.

Qos was the most original of any recent Bond, along the lines of CR. It didn't try to be a copy of a classic. It used DC for what he's best at as far as acting with different dimensions.



#21 sharpshooter

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:28 AM

Qos was the most original of any recent Bond

Fair call. QoS didn't apologise for the direction it took. As the old saying goes, "you have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

 

The final chat with M in the snow is great. "I never left" is a memorable closing line, as is the image of the love knot in the snow. Merging straight into 'Crawl, End Crawl' would've been really good. No doubt a better transition of mood, very reflective and poignant. Though the gunbarrel at the end is a first for a Bond movie, so QoS has the honour there. Ultimately we get the best of both worlds.



#22 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

The final chat with M in the snow is great. "I never left" is a memorable closing line, as is the image of the love knot in the snow. Merging straight into 'Crawl, End Crawl' would've been really good. No doubt a better transition of mood, very reflective and poignant. Though the gunbarrel at the end is a first for a Bond movie, so QoS has the honour there. Ultimately we get the best of both worlds.

 

 

I've got a sneaky feeling that the gunbarrel ending was a last minute fix.

 

You've heard the talk of Forster's original ending in which Bond is shot in the back by Mr White with a telescopic sight?  Well, for whatever reason they ditched it (they probably didn't want to be tied to the Quantum story in case QoS wasn't popular), minus this shooting scene they may have felt the ending rather too somber and wanted to still go out with a bang. Hey presto, someone in the edit suite came up with the idea of cutting into the gunbarrel - problem solved (apparently).

 

Personally, like you i 'd have preferred to forego the gunbarrel altogether. Conceptually it's sound enough - stating that Bond is now Bond, but tonally it's too jarring and unnecessarily disrupts the perfectly somber mood of the ending.

 

They probably did a pick up shoot of the gunbarrel for end, but there's always the chance it'd originally been shot for the beginning and moved to the end. Guess we'll never really know.



#23 Turn

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

Not following up with the Quantum organization in SF probably hasn't done any favors for QoS's reputation. Just as Bond was getting started, so was Quantum, you were seeing them grow in power. White's line of "We have people everywhere" is chilling for me. Here's this guy who seems in a no-win situation with complete arrogance and confidence surrounded by Mi6 agents. In retrospect, is Silva's ability to cause havoc any wonder considering M's own bodyguard is a traitor?

 

There's a lot of criticism from fans about the water plot, and it does sound underwhelming, but again, it's a step to global domination and not just setting out to capture spacecraft or hijack nuclear weapons at this point. It's smaller-scale to fit the needs of the plot, which is revenge-based foremost. It makes you think the worst is yet to come with what they can try next.



#24 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

Well said. I do believe that Quantum will appear again and maybe even tie in with Silva.

#25 tdalton

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

There's a lot of criticism from fans about the water plot, and it does sound underwhelming, but again, it's a step to global domination and not just setting out to capture spacecraft or hijack nuclear weapons at this point. It's smaller-scale to fit the needs of the plot, which is revenge-based foremost. It makes you think the worst is yet to come with what they can try next.

 

I've never understood the criticism of the water stealing plot.  I would think that it's one of the more terrifying plans any of the Bond villains have come up with, the idea that not only could someone steal the water supply of an entire nation, but would then use it in a similar fashion to how SPECTRE used the nuclear warheads in Thunderball.  This really would have been a great introduction to Quantum as an ongoing nemesis, but it's a shame that it can't feasibly be the case at this point since every time EON stumbles onto a good idea, the anchor around their necks that is MGM manages to find a way to halt the progress. 



#26 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:50 PM

Agreed, the water plot was scary because it was so realistic. Maybe some could not imagine being cut off from water supply.

#27 Major Tallon

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:32 PM

I also agree.  This is a plot that could lead to disease and death affecting an entire population, the mass migration of hundreds of thousands of people, and the likelihood of civic unrest and even war.  As an alternative, Quantum is willing to settle for millions of dollars and accomplishes it all without raising its head above the parapets.  Chilling.



#28 glidrose

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:47 PM

But why Bolivia? What's so earth-shattering about Bolivia?

What next? Get the monopoly on Philadelphia's cable providers?

The other problem I have with the film is how draggy it is. When Bond travels to Italy to meet Mathis, the film bogs down. Picks up with Fields' intro, the badly edited party, her death, before really picking up with the excellent finale. But that whole airplane action sequence felt unnecessary. I think Loomis made the same point. It's just padding because it's time for another action sequence.

#29 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:20 AM

Why Bolivia?  Major Tallon explained it perfectly.  Also, Quantum is working within the shadows.  They would be stupid to try cutting off the water supply of a European land or the USA.  They destabilize regions which seem uninteresting to "first world"-people.  And when the damage is done the "first world"-people will realize too late that they depend on the stability of the whole world not just their particular surroundings.



#30 tdalton

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:07 AM

They also make the case for Bolivia in the film.  It would seem as though Quantum, or at least the part of it being operated by Dominic Greene, is looking to destabilize the entire South American continent, which they find to be possible due to the United States' preocupation with the Middle East.  Dominc Greene states that the countries of South America are falling like dominos.  Venezuela and Brazil were mentioned, implying that Quantum has their hand in the affairs of those nations as well, making Bolivia just another stop on Quantum's tour aimed at destabilizing South America.  Taking whatever Quantum has done in those other South American nations plus the chilling effects that seizing the water supply would cause in Bolivia, and that's a massive amount of destabilization happening, all without Quantum having to announce their presence to the world in SPECTRE-like fashion.  And, all of this goes down essentially with the support of the United States government, which makes it even more chilling.

 

Having just rewatched the film tonight, it's really frustrating that EON (thanks to MGM) has missed out on developing Quantum as a major threat for Bond to face.  Quantum of Solace is a terrific introduction to a new villainous organization, a foe that is able to do so much damage behind the scenes without anyone even knowing that they exist.  This could have been great fodder for future entries, but sadly I think that they've missed the boat now that Bond 24 will arrive seven years after Quantum of Solace.  One thing I will say, though, is that Quantum of Solace, perhaps even moreso than Licence to Kill, might be the most underrated entry in the series.  It's almost universally despised, at least around here, but after watching it again tonight, I found it to be pretty damn entertaining, and better than any film that we've gotten since the end of the 1980s.


Edited by tdalton, 05 March 2014 - 06:11 AM.