23 replies to this topic

[ChickenStu]

Was going to do this in my Daniel Craig thread, but since there is still a designated childboard for this subject I thought I'd play the game. 

 

I think this is a wonderful movie and Daniel's Craig's best. This is in fact the greatest Bond movie since Goldeneye. Judi Dench is stunning as M, and Javier Bardem is a great villain. Wonderful support comes from Ralph Feines as Mallory and I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with this guy in future movies.

 

Loved Thomas Newman's score. Nothing wrong with David Arnold but a change after so many years was rather refreshing. Even Adele's theme song is starting to grow on me now! 

 

However, in a strange way I think the star of this film is it's director Sam Mendes. He has just made magic here. Pure magic. I am pleased to hear he is staying on for the next one. 

 

For me, Skyfall is a modern classic. I'd put it up there with From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, The Living Daylights... it really is THAT good!

 

A wonderful movie to commemorate the 50th Anniversary with. Skyfall is a masterpiece. 

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

For me, Skyfall is a modern classic. I'd put it up there with From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, The Living Daylights... it really is THAT good!

Yes, it is. I would even say that it is the best since the year 1969.

[Janus Assassin]

Agreed on all aspects. It ranks #3 on my list behind GoldenEye and Casino Royale

[Guy Haines]

Was going to do this in my Daniel Craig thread, but since there is still a designated childboard for this subject I thought I'd play the game. 

 

I think this is a wonderful movie and Daniel's Craig's best. This is in fact the greatest Bond movie since Goldeneye. Judi Dench is stunning as M, and Javier Bardem is a great villain. Wonderful support comes from Ralph Feines as Mallory and I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with this guy in future movies.

 

Loved Thomas Newman's score. Nothing wrong with David Arnold but a change after so many years was rather refreshing. Even Adele's theme song is starting to grow on me now! 

 

However, in a strange way I think the star of this film is it's director Sam Mendes. He has just made magic here. Pure magic. I am pleased to hear he is staying on for the next one. 

 

For me, Skyfall is a modern classic. I'd put it up there with From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, The Living Daylights... it really is THAT good!

 

A wonderful movie to commemorate the 50th Anniversary with. Skyfall is a masterpiece. 

Couldn't agree more, personally. That said, when polling my relatives, friends and neighbours who had seen SF, there was a curious response from some - "It's a great movie, but not a great Bond movie". Almost as if they recognised just what a great job Sam Mendes had done in directing the film, but it wasn't what they had come to expect. After decades of Bond films, audiences may have veered between wildly enthusiastic and mildly bored with 007, but there was a structure to the films which they had come to expect and which had been shaken up with SF. A bit like going to the pantomime. There are scenes you expect.

 

That said, how can a film like SF not be a great Bond film when it's got that car in it? Aston Martin DB5, BMT216A? And the only time, I think, that Bond feels genuinely aggrieved about anything in the film is when Silva's helicopter gunship blows it to bits!

[ChickenStu]

Skyfall was what I was waiting for with Daniel Craig. I found Casino Royale to be above average at best and Quantum Of Solace to not really be very good at all. Yet with Skyfall I felt a magic akin to what I felt when I saw Goldeneye as a boy all those years ago. There was something about it, and I love what they've set up for future installments. A truly excellent, wonderful Bond film. I cannot praise it highly enough. So pleased that the Broccoli's have retained Sam Mendes' for the next installment. 

This could very well be the start of a new golden age for Bond. 

[Double Naught spy]

Aside from being in agreement with ChickenStu and the rest of the posters, why I think Skyfall ranks among the classics -

 

Off the top of my head: when Craig makes the leaping jump and latches onto the bottom of the elevator, I felt that I was watching a scene from Connery's heyday and all of it's physicality.  As Craig was confronted by his opponent who just aimed his own "Q-pistol" at him in the lizard pit, that look he gives to his opponent (confident that the gun could only be fired by his own handprint) as well as the dead-pan quip he utters as his opponent was dragged away into the lizard's cave was delivered as "classic" Roger Moore (with shades of Brosnan.)  And of course, the shaving scene between Craig and Eve harkened back to the more "romantic" moments in the Brosnan era.   The depressing "loss" at the end, as well as the overall seriousness of the film, as AgentiiNollaNollaSeitsman eluded to in his/her "1969" comment, is reminiscent of Lazenby's OHMSS.  And, as we've seen since CR, the overall intensity Craig brings to the screen is (always) worthy of what Dalton brought to the franchise.

 

To be clear, in no way am I attempting to say that Mr.Craig was merely "channeling" the "best" aspects of other 007 actors, as if his acting skills were limited to being nothing more than a talented "mimic."  What I am saying is this - somebody (Sam Mendes?) took the time to review all the previous 007 movies, discerned what "worked vs. didn't work" regarding the subtle intangibles from each era, and incorporated and updated those things into Skyfall.   Where Mr. Craig comes into play at this point is the fact that he made each one of the afore-mentioned scene his "own."  In other words, not once did I think, "Oh, (in this or that scene) Craig is just doing a Connery, Moore, etc. impression." as I watched Skyfall.

 

On a personal note (I'll be vague in case someone out there still hasn't seen the movie), given the sad "loss" at the end of the film, I couldn't think of a better "setting" to end an already awesome film.   For me, I went from 'tears' to 'cheers' in a matter of minutes.  Unlike the depressing finality of the bullet hole in the windshield from OHMSS, this ending gives us something to look forward to.  

Edited by Double Naught spy, 02 November 2013 - 11:10 PM.

[Guy Haines]

Aside from being in agreement with ChickenStu and the rest of the posters, why I think Skyfall ranks among the classics -

 

Off the top of my head: when Craig makes the leaping jump and latches onto the bottom of the elevator, I felt that I was watching a scene from Connery's heyday and all of it's physicality.  As Craig was confronted by his opponent who just aimed his own "Q-pistol" at him in the lizard pit, that look he gives to his opponent (confident that the gun could only be fired by his own handprint) as well as the dead-pan quip he utters as his opponent was dragged away into the lizard's cave was delivered as "classic" Roger Moore (with shades of Brosnan.)  And of course, the shaving scene between Craig and Eve harkened back to the more "romantic" moments in the Brosnan era.   The depressing "loss" at the end, as well as the overall seriousness of the film, as AgentiiNollaNollaSeitsman eluded to in his/her "1969" comment, is reminiscent of Lazenby's OHMSS.  And, as we've seen since CR, the overall intensity Craig brings to the screen is (always) worthy of what Dalton brought to the franchise.

 

To be clear, in no way am I attempting to say that Mr.Craig was merely "channeling" the "best" aspects of other 007 actors, as if his acting skills were limited to being nothing more than a talented "mimic."  What I am saying is this - somebody (Sam Mendes?) took the time to review all the previous 007 movies, discerned what "worked vs. didn't work" regarding the subtle intangibles from each era, and incorporated and updated those things into Skyfall.   Where Mr. Craig comes into play at this point is the fact that he made each one of the afore-mentioned scene his "own."  In other words, not once did I think, "Oh, (in this or that scene) Craig is just doing a Connery, Moore, etc. impression." as I watched Skyfall.

 

On a personal note (I'll be vague in case someone out there still hasn't seen the movie), given the sad "loss" at the end of the film, I couldn't think of a better "setting" to end an already awesome film.   For me, I went from 'tears' to 'cheers' in a matter of minutes.  Unlike the depressing finality of the bullet hole in the windshield from OHMSS, this ending gives us something to look forward to.  

Absolutely agree about Daniel Craig making Bond his own. He did that right from the start in CR, but there would have been the temptation in SF to back reference the previous films and have his performance reflect this. Not once did it happen - not even in the scene when Bond leaps on the underground train and surprises the back end driver sitting there - a clear attempt to throw in a visual gag from the Moore era. Craig played his Bond as his Bond, no-one else's.

 

As for "tears to cheers" - it's happened twice in the Craig era. Don't forget the end of CR. It could easily have been Bond grieving over Vesper - instead, not only did we have the line from the book - "the bitch is dead", although QoS answers whether he meant it - but Bond catching up with Mr White and delivering that line as the very last line of the film. It might seem contrived, but the end of CR 2006 is one of my favourite endings of any Bond film.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

It's "his". Don't let the long hair fool you.

 

 

On a personal note (I'll be vague in case someone out there still hasn't seen the movie), given the sad "loss" at the end of the film, I couldn't think of a better "setting" to end an already awesome film.   For me, I went from 'tears' to 'cheers' in a matter of minutes.  Unlike the depressing finality of the bullet hole in the windshield from OHMSS, this ending gives us something to look forward to.  

The "sad loss" in the second-to-last scene strangled my throat, but the end made literally cry - of joy. It was such a powerful ending, truly cementing the fact we're living on Second Golden Age of Bond. Tossing of the folder, "So 007, lots to be done", Craigs closing line.... Best ending in a Bond film in my opinion.

[ChickenStu]

I absolutely adore the Mallory character. The idea of him being M in future films fills me with much excitement. I loved the way he earned our man's respect in the courtroom gunfight. That little wink our man gives to him says it all. 

 

Our man seems happy that Mallory is the new boss. He likes and respects him, even taking time to ask him how his arm is! I'm very interested in seeing how this relationship develops in future installments and have my own ideas about how I'd like to see it done.

 

In Bond 24 I'd like to see Mallory get stuck into the action again. I have an idea for a pre credits sequence where our man finds himself in a bit of deep water and radios into HQ for backup. He gets a response like "Sending someone now 007" and you see an anonymous figure drop in by helicopter. Our man rushes to meet his backup and is surprised to see it's Mallory himself. Mallory says a line like "Sorry old boy, everyone was busy. You'll have to make do with me." Our man sighs and laughs and says something like "You've really got to stop doing this sir" and they then fight their way out together. 

 

Then throughout the following story, you see Mallory covering up our man's mistakes. I think his character could be a lot like Skinner in The X Files. Make him one of the real good guys like Skinner was. 

[tdalton]

Mallory needs to stay in the background.  The overuse of the M character to the point that she was basically the second lead in the previous three films was a huge detriment to what has otherwise been a generally good run for Craig.  Mallory needs to give Bond his assignment and then let him go do it, only showing up again if the situation changes in a major way mid-story, as we've seen a few times over the course of the series (Moonraker comes to mind as an immediate example).  Aside from that, his screentime should be minimal.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

Mallory needs to stay in the background.  The overuse of the M character to the point that she was basically the second lead in the previous three films was a huge detriment to what has otherwise been a generally good run for Craig. 

Absolutely. There's no need to drag Mallory, Tanner or Moneypenny into the action scenes or make them constantly tap on Bond. In my opinion Mallory should be "messervian" superior to Bond, which would be something we haven't got in ages!

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 04 November 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[ChickenStu]

Mallory needs to stay in the background.  The overuse of the M character to the point that she was basically the second lead in the previous three films was a huge detriment to what has otherwise been a generally good run for Craig.  Mallory needs to give Bond his assignment and then let him go do it, only showing up again if the situation changes in a major way mid-story, as we've seen a few times over the course of the series (Moonraker comes to mind as an immediate example).  Aside from that, his screentime should be minimal.

 

Yeah man, but when you've got an actor like Ralph Fiennes in your movie it would be criminal to waste him. Especially since he's got such amazing chemistry with Craig (or at least the potential is there). Since we saw him get stuck into the action in Skyfall and do so effectively - to have him "just stuck behind a desk" in future installments seems like a bit of a waste to me. 

[tdalton]

That's the exact line of reasoning that led to Dench becoming such a focal point of the series from The World Is Not Enough onward.  Yes, Fiennes is a terrific actor.  I actually vastly prefer him as M over Dench, but sometimes less is more.  Having M on the screen as much as his predecessor was during the last few films would be treading on old ground that had already grown extremely tiresome the last few times out.  Bond 24 needs to pull things back and feature Bond as a lone agent against the villainous threat, not as part of a Mission: Impossible-type team.  

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

Sometimes less is more. I'd rather have Fiennes (who, in my opinion, should have been Bond instead of Brosnan) in one or two memorable scenes per movie than have him act as Bonds shadow. Bernard Lee was able to make his presence felt with minimum screentime, and with Fiennes' talents as an actor that could be done again.

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 04 November 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[Turn]

tdalton has echoed just about everything I was thinking. SF was the Mi6 film in which the staff was highlighted, now let's move onto what these films are -- James Bond movies, not Mi6 movies. I  back on films like YOLT, DAF and LALD where the staff showed up at the beginning and that was that (Q's appearances notwithstanding).

 

It probably borders on blasphemy, but I'm glad to see Dench's M move on. Never really liked her that well. The character always seemed to be caught between championing Bond and covering her own butt. IMO she came off best in TND, and at her worst in TWINE. They should have called her in before the commission after that debacle.

 

Bernard Lee's M was often testy, but I bought into that relationship, which was closer to that of the books, strangely with Moore, although a lot of the one-up side of Bond's personality was emphasized. But the fierce faith M has shows in scenes in TB, and even TSWLM and MR. I love those scenes with Moore especially when he backs his instincts.

 

I've thought a bit of a missed opportunity in the film series was not developing Tanner as he was Bond's best friend in the service in the novels, and could have been the one who keeps Bond up on things that may aid in his missions from the office that M may not have wanted to get out rather than the yes man he's been portrayed as. 

[Colossus]

 

For me, Skyfall is a modern classic. I'd put it up there with From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, The Living Daylights... it really is THAT good!

Yes, it is. I would even say that it is the best since the year 1969.

 

Now i wouldnt go so far to say THAT. Best since... 1997.

Oh i'm glad Dench is gone. Yeesh she did not belong at all in the Craig era. She was perfect for the Brozza years but oh well.

[The Krynoid man]

It's the best since Goldeneye (which, incidentally, came out the year I was born)

[Hansen]

Just watched again Casino Royale. I cannot believe what they have lost in 2 films. Such a great start, such a pitiful landing.

Just felt the need to make hear the voice of Skyfall-haters to balance debates

[Armand Fancypants]

I really find the complaints that it's an Mi6 film and not a Bond film very strange. Rarely has a Bond film since OHMSS given us more about Bond (and I'm not talking about his backstory, I'm talking about his mindset, identity, and relevance), let alone as much.

 

Logan and Mendes want to flesh out the world that Bond inhabits, which is an essential theme of the film anyway. There is no exclusivity, everything is connected and intertwined in the world today, and Bond can be no different. And even then they make sure the focus of the climax is intimate, uncomfortably so.

[glidrose]

Just watched again Casino Royale. I cannot believe what they have lost in 2 films. Such a great start, such a pitiful landing.
Just felt the need to make hear the voice of Skyfall-haters to balance debates

Hear hear! When people asked me about SF I'd say it was DC's third Bond film and his second Bond disappointment in a row. Can't understand how anybody mentions this film in the same breath of CR, let alone place it above CR!

I saw the film twice in the theatre and have no desire to see it on DVD, other than watching the titles, though I suppose I will get around to seeing the film again.

I don't hate it by any means, it seems to be a fairly good film, but not much of a Bond film.

[S K Y F A L L]

I think Skyfall is the best film since Goldeneye but not better then GE and on par with CR. So I kind of agree with you there ChickenStu

[Iceskater101]

Skyfall is a Bond movie to remember. I love that after 50 years, it still brings back some of the original components of the James Bond franchise. I love Goldeneye and Casino Royale and Skyfall. All three of these are great bond movies.

[Sharpe]

 

Just watched again Casino Royale. I cannot believe what they have lost in 2 films. Such a great start, such a pitiful landing.
Just felt the need to make hear the voice of Skyfall-haters to balance debates

Hear hear! When people asked me about SF I'd say it was DC's third Bond film and his second Bond disappointment in a row. Can't understand how anybody mentions this film in the same breath of CR, let alone place it above CR!

I saw the film twice in the theatre and have no desire to see it on DVD, other than watching the titles, though I suppose I will get around to seeing the film again.

I don't hate it by any means, it seems to be a fairly good film, but not much of a Bond film.

 

I agree with this. I love parts of skyfall - love the whole 'enjoying death' aspect and Bond not being 100%. It's beautifully shot, falls apart completely once they capture Silva, but it picks up again once Bond gets back to Skyfall. However, viewed as a whole movie it's a bit dull. Casino Royale really grabs you and never lets go. It's so much better than skyfall in my opinion. That being said, i'd say skyfall is the 2nd best bond film since Goldeneye, with CR being the best. In part because the other movies (i.e. the latter three Brosnan films, QoS) have been rather horrible in my opinion.

[Janus Assassin]

 

 

Just watched again Casino Royale. I cannot believe what they have lost in 2 films. Such a great start, such a pitiful landing.
Just felt the need to make hear the voice of Skyfall-haters to balance debates

Hear hear! When people asked me about SF I'd say it was DC's third Bond film and his second Bond disappointment in a row. Can't understand how anybody mentions this film in the same breath of CR, let alone place it above CR!

I saw the film twice in the theatre and have no desire to see it on DVD, other than watching the titles, though I suppose I will get around to seeing the film again.

I don't hate it by any means, it seems to be a fairly good film, but not much of a Bond film.

 

I agree with this. I love parts of skyfall - love the whole 'enjoying death' aspect and Bond not being 100%. It's beautifully shot, falls apart completely once they capture Silva, but it picks up again once Bond gets back to Skyfall. However, viewed as a whole movie it's a bit dull. Casino Royale really grabs you and never lets go. It's so much better than skyfall in my opinion. That being said, i'd say skyfall is the 2nd best bond film since Goldeneye, with CR being the best. In part because the other movies (i.e. the latter three Brosnan films, QoS) have been rather horrible in my opinion.

 

 

I agree to disagree with you saying that it falls apart once they capture Silva. I love Bond and Q's interaction the concept they were hacked and he escapes. I thought the chase through the subway station was a bit too long and it picks up beautifully once Silva arrives to kill M during the meeting.