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ChickenStu on the Dalton Era


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#1 ChickenStu

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:36 PM

Having read all of the Fleming originals, I think Dalton is the one actor who got it closest to our man. Gone was the flippant devil may care of Connery, the Connery clone of Lazenby, and the self parody of Moore. Dalton was a new breed. Not some superhuman with a quip and a raised eyebrow, Dalton played our man like a real human being. He only did two movies of course, but I think those movies are extremely important to the series as a whole, and Dalton's contribution cannot be under estimated. He bought HUMANITY, something which was sorely lacking after the last few Moore efforts. 

 

The Living Daylights

 

This movie is really rather wonderful. Jeroen Krabbe and Joe Don Baker are pretty weak villains but Maryam d'Abo makes for a compelling and appealing love interest. The score by John Barry is wonderful, and so is the title song by A-Ha. Dalton does a wonderful job here and does something really special with the role. He's an engaging guide to take us through this compelling and globe trotting story. 

 

With beautiful locations, thrilling action sequences and a rendition of our man the for once we the audience can identify with - The Living Daylights is just a wonderful adventure. Sweeping, grand and epic. A truly classic Bond. 



#2 ChickenStu

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:41 PM

Licence To Kill

 

And Timothy Dalton's tenure comes to far early an end. Wow. I know opinion is mixed here on this one, but I love it - I think it's a very interesting film to look at all these years later. Everyone harps on about how gritty the Daniel Craig films are and how they ushered these films into a new generation and all that. The truth is however, this movie proves that they were thinking along those lines way back in 1989.

 

It's hardly surprising this movie got a 15 certificate. It's pretty hardcore. Dalton plays our man as a brooding anti-hero struggling to contain his rage. The Bond girls are almost surplus to requirement here. Our man doesn't seem to care about them, he's a driven man, looking to put away the bad guy for good.

 

This film really plays to Dalton's strengths. Revenge whilst a negative thing, is also very human. It's refreshing to see our man succumb to this desire and act accordingly.

 

Robert Davi is perhaps my favourite villain of all. His performance as Franz Sanchez is greatly overlooked. Also, Anthony Zerbe is inspired casting as Milton Krest. When I read The Hildrebrant Rarity I could easily imagine Anthony Zerbe in my head. Perfect.

 

Michael Kamen's score lets things down a little, but I can see what it was he was trying to do. 

 

Licence To Kill for various reasons was a very controversial movie at the time, but I think it gets a bum rap these days. It's a very effective and powerful thriller. Violent, cathartic and gloriously entertaining. Damn good movie. 



#3 Double Naught spy

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:17 AM

When it comes to your assessments of Dalton and this movie - I couldn't agree more ChickenStu!   What a breath of fresh air after the tragedy of AVTAK!

 

However, there is always the underlining discomfort "post-911" of seeing our hero (or John Rambo for that matter) aiding the Afghan Mujahedeen in the late1980's.   But that discomfort is NOTHING compared to seeing that Felix Leiter has been re-imagined into a CIA-pimp/threesome-lovin' 'playa'...  (No wonder Della wanted to make his settle down in LTK!)

 

Although it I have no idea why Eon has such a boner about horribly miscasting a fine actor like Joe Don Baker for the next decade, least they had the good sense to delete the "carpet ride" scene.  Trust me, for those who haven't seen it, it's damn near like Bond finding something as stereotypical as a genie bottle and "wishing" for a good, clean escape during a chase scene. 

 

Good luck on LTK - the one film that managed to take the magic of the Florida Keys and totally marginalize the location.  (Even considering the Hemingway house scenes, so many beautiful opportunities are wasted down in the Keys to where it might as well be a Pinewood soundstage)


Edited by Double Naught spy, 29 October 2013 - 12:19 AM.


#4 ChickenStu

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:25 PM

If you see above you will see that my appraisal of Licence To Kill is quite positive. 

 

These two movies like I said are very important in the series as a whole. I know reception was mixed at the time but I feel like time has been very kind to them, and to Dalton's interpretation of our man. 

 

Makes me laugh that everyone remembers Licence To Kill as some big flop. OK, it was released in the midst of tough competition and under performed compared to previous entries - but it was actually still quite a big hit. If it had flopped as badly as some people think it did, the movie series would not have been allowed to continue. Simple as. And the filmmakers would not have wanted Dalton to return for GoldenEye. (which they very much did). 

 

From what I can gather, it was a big hit on home video aswell. 



#5 glidrose

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:40 PM

Makes me laugh that everyone remembers Licence To Kill as some big flop. <snip> but it was actually still quite a big hit.


Er, not it wasn't.

Fora members discussed this in another thread debating the reasons why LTK did so poorly at the box-office. In a nutshell, the following films did better than LTK. "Turner and Hooch" starring Tom Hanks and a drooling dog. That made 71 million in the U.S. alone, more than twice what LTK made - $33,197,509 if IMDB is to believed. Does anybody here like Turner and Hooch more than LTK? Christ, even "See No Evil, Hear No Evil" with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder did much better business: $46,908,987. Then there's another cop & canine buddy picture, "K-9" with Jim Belushi which pulled in $43,247,647. Then we've got "The Karate Kid, Part III" - were there really that many Ralph Macchio fans back then? - which made $38,956,288. LTK narrowly beat out "Road House" with Patrick Swayze ($30M) and a reissue of the 1953 "Peter Pan" ($29.5M).

LTK was not a hit, let alone a great big hig. It wasn't a box office bomb either, but calling it a "flop" is more accurate than saying it was a "hit". If you ever find yourself seated before Broccoli and Wilson, ask them if they'd like another hit like LTK on their hands. Don't be surprised if they shudder.
 

If it had flopped as badly as some people think it did, the movie series would not have been allowed to continue. Simple as. And the filmmakers would not have wanted Dalton to return for GoldenEye. (which they very much did).


And the series almost didn't continue. Seem to recall something about Broccoli attempting to sell the series.

Whilst the producers did want Dalton to return, the studio did not.
 

From what I can gather, it was a big hit on home video as well.


It did better on video.

#6 Double Naught spy

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:46 PM

At least here in the States, I think by the time Dalton's tenure came around, the 007 franchise was being diluted by other "sequel" franchises like Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Indiana Jones, and whatever the "next"  Arnold S. movie was that was coming out.  Certainly by 1989, LTK was just "another" installment of another sequel-driven franchise.  I recall, back in college, waiting tables at a national chain-restaurant and seeing beer coasters (or something like them) advertising some kind of "Win a free ticket" screening to LTK.  Of course, as a Bond fan back then, I was glad to see the promotion....but upon reflection, I have to think that the 'casual' fan looked at such a promotion gimmick as "Oh, how the mighty have sunk!" or just generally viewed it as a crass, desperate advertising scheme.

 

And that's a shame because Dalton was wonderful in the role.  Of course, I've voiced my (admittedly nitpicky) criticisms of his two films, but they are both very worthy entries into the 007 catalogue.  Dalton sold me on him being Bond the minute he had 'words' with Saunders during Koskov's "defection."  If that didn't sell me, the scene where he ambushes Pushkin in the general's hotel room certainly did.  I think the last third (Afghanistan scenes) of the film falls prey to the "action upon action scenes" motif that was popular back then, and which made the " climax" inside Whitaker's battle room seem all the more anti-climatic.

 

As for LTK - despite my earlier criticisms of it totally wasting such a wonderful 'visual' opportunity of the Florida Keys, I do like the "twist" of Bond going rogue.  On top of that, the fact he's not doing it because of some self-contained, contrived reason created just for the film, but doing it to revenge his best friend Felix, was not lost on (at least) me.  (Good for you 007! And a heartfelt "FU!" to you, M!)  Although the movie falls apart in the later half with such silliness as Wayne Newton as Professor Joe (not to mention the last-minute addition of Truman-Lodge and Heller just to create a "will they turn against the villain?" plot-points that seems to be a homage to the "convenient last-minute twist" elements that were prevalent in the Gardner novels at the time), I've always loved the brief scene during the runway gunfight in the PTS where Dalton just sort of "emerges" from the ground (it's seconds before he checks on Lupe's safety), the reaction of Krest while watching 007 slash through his cocaine shipment, as well as 007's "last second" escape from his underwater attackers.  Not to mention the (minor) continuity "nod" of David Hedison playing Felix after all those years certainly didn't hurt, especially given the Felix-inspired 'revenge' plot. 



#7 ChickenStu

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:46 AM

Well, it said in a book I read that Licence To Kill was a sizable hit despite what many say. I was just going by that. 



#8 Revelator

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:26 PM

Well, it said in a book I read that Licence To Kill was a sizable hit despite what many say. I was just going by that. 

 

If memory serves, LTK flopped in the US--earning less money than any previous Bond--but made a fair amount of money overseas. Unfortunately, this was just before the period when overseas gross would be viewed by the studios as equally important, if not superior to, domestic gross. In any case, Bond's box office had steadily declined throughout the 80s, and Dalton's casting in TLD did not set America on fire, and the nation had plenty of homegrown blockbusters to choose from in the summer of '89. The question remains whether Dalton would have done a third film had legal hassles not intervened. LTK probably would not have been a great hit had it been released in the fall with a superior ad campaign--but it probably wouldn't have been a flop either. The Bond films have wisely chosen to stick to the end of the year and leave summer to the more vulgar action films.


Edited by Revelator, 31 October 2013 - 08:27 PM.


#9 glidrose

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:00 PM

If memory serves, LTK flopped in the US--earning less money than any previous Bond--but made a fair amount of money overseas.


Not entirely true. There was also a tailing off internationally, tho' nowhere near as steeply as in the U.S.

The question remains whether Dalton would have done a third film had legal hassles not intervened.


Oh absolutely! No question he would have done a third, a fourth, etc.

LTK probably would not have been a great hit had it been released in the fall with a superior ad campaign--but it probably wouldn't have been a flop either. The Bond films have wisely chosen to stick to the end of the year and leave summer to the more vulgar action films.


I also believe LTK would have done better had it been released at year's end. Nothing would have made it a big hit, but it would have done better - if still behind TLD - had it been released later in the year.

#10 tdalton

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:16 AM

Didn't think we'd be revisiting this argument so soon after the other thread.  Anyway, and this is coming from perhaps the biggest fan of Licence to Kill there is, but there is no quantitative way in which Licence to Kill can be argued as having been a success.  It flopped at the box office.  It finished 36th at the US box office, some $200+ million behind Batman and behind a slew of other films that Bond has no business finishing behind.  It might have done better internationally (finished 12th and $70 some million behind Honey, I Shrunk the Kids), but certainly not enough to keep it from being labeled a failure.  

 

That said, I absolutely love the film.  It features my favorite Bond, Bond girl, and villain and, aside from maybe putting more money up on the screen in terms of just giving it a bit more polish, I'm not sure that there's a whole lot I'd change about it.