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Bond incomplete score TMWTGG, TSWLM, Moonraker, Octopussy, AVTAK


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#1 scaramunga

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:40 PM

I was reading the old Film Score Monthly articles about the 2003 James Bond remastered cd's some of which were expanded at the time.

 

There was a short piece called The Tracks Not Taken on several of the scores that were remastered, but un expanded.

 

Film Score Monthly Volume 8 Issue number 5.

 

The Man With The Golden Gun was on the schedule but cut due to lack of project funds. The score is on 16-track tapes just like Live and Let Die.

 

The Spy Who Loved did not have enough time to assemble the score. There are 24-track tapes located at Abbey Road in London, but it is not noted whether they are for the soundtrack album or the film soundtrack.  Lukas also notes that 24-track tape remastering is very expensive.

 

A View To A Kill was recorded in London, but the tapes are not at Abbey Road for whatever reason.

 

Moonraker recorded in Paris and the tapes are not at Abbey Road. Originally the score heard in Moonraker theatrically was mono. Was not the films score mixed in stereo for DVD? If so the tapes exist to remaster and expand.

 

The article notes that Octopussy tapes were not located at Abbey Road, but may be located in MGM in Los Angeles.

 

Of course he notes that Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger full scores are most likely lost.

 

Goldeneye Kendall wanted to include the tank chase by John Altman, but the recording was recorded on a "fancy modern digital tape that required expensive equipment to transfer."

 

With all of the great work being done on expanding and reissuing soundtracks, surely FSM, Intrada or La La Land Records would do the extra work and issue these scores?

 

Hopefully MGM can make an arrangement in the near future.

 

What I thought was silly at the time is that they wanted to do the score as budget items rather then charging a bit more.

As I have seen with the smaller soundtrack labels if they are done well they are worth paying for. Intrada, Grescendo, La La Land Records and FSM have done amazing work with the Star Trek soundtracks. Both the films and tv.

 

Kendall also remarks that very little marketing was done for the remastered soundtracks.

 

So I'm guessing the only people that knew about them to buy was Bond fans. Even though MGM wanted commercial appeal with them.

 

 



#2 The Shark

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:52 PM

FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, GOLDFINGER and THUNDERBALL are incomplete too, and no music from recorded for TSWLM has ever been released - only the re-orchestrations/re-recordings Hamlisch later did for the LP. The scores to be fully released are YOLT, OHMSS and DAF - this is because these were Lukas Kendall's personal favourites.

 

Even then, OHMSS is missing a few cues - including the longer film version of Over and Out, the version of WHATTITW for the barn proposal and the ice rink waltz.



#3 Leo R.

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:54 PM

I've been wondering why there haven't been any limited expanded releases of the classic Bond scores - after all LalaLand, FSM, Intrada etc. manage to do this for so many titles, including 1967's Casino Royale (twice!). Anyone got an idea why this isn't possible?

 

According to Lucas Kendall's articles in FSM from 2003, even the expanded albums left music out: some 20 to 30 minutes of Thunderball, several cues from OHMSS and an extended version of Bassey's DAF with extra lyrics.

 

As for Moonraker, the music was in stereo by the time I saw this one on TV in the mid-90ies. I guess the stereo music had been reinstated when the movies were remastered around 1992.

The tapes were certainly not left at Davout in Paris:

http://www.filmscore...Topic&archive=0

THe FSM thread is a very interesting read.



#4 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:00 PM

Since the 50th anniversary obviously was no sales incentive enough for a re-release of complete and remastered Bond scores, I don´t think we will see these for at least another 20 or 25 years.

 

Maybe, if we´re really lucky, some of the mentioned specialty labels will be able to release some of the previously unreleased cues - but we shouldn´t hold our breath. The situation with all the rightsholders is too complicated. Too many beancounters, too little passion for this music. They rather sit on the rights then do something with it.



#5 Grard Bond

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:44 PM

A similar article/interview was printed in the 007 Magazine around that time.

The people from Mgm only wanted an expanded version of Thunderball.

But when Kendall not only found tapes from Thunderball, but also with the recordings of Twice, OHMSS, DAF and the next three movies, he got money to do a few others.

At the end there was only time and money left for one other: Spy was to expensive, so the choice was between LALD and Golden Gun.

If they want they could release the expanded scores for Spy and Gun, but they have no interest to do so. It's a shame, but the truth.

Nobody ever realy searched for the other gems like Moonraker, Octopussy or the firs three scores.



#6 Ernst Stavro Blofeld Jr.

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

Since the 50th anniversary obviously was no sales incentive enough for a re-release of complete and remastered Bond scores, I don´t think we will see these for at least another 20 or 25 years.

 

Maybe, if we´re really lucky, some of the mentioned specialty labels will be able to release some of the previously unreleased cues - but we shouldn´t hold our breath. The situation with all the rightsholders is too complicated. Too many beancounters, too little passion for this music. They rather sit on the rights then do something with it.

 

They'll come out at some point without notice likely.  That's how it started with Star Trek, and they only have two of the films left to expand.  After the success of Skyfall, I'm sure that they will try to capitalize on it eventually, especially as the specialty labels as you mentioned are able to release much more now.



#7 scaramunga

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:42 PM

Thanks for the posts. I believe there is demand and in a limited release all of the titles would sell out. 

 

From what I can tell MGM and EMI are the ones that are difficult to work with and do not want the product made because they do not care about old soundtracks? 

 

I don't understand this line of thinking though. If you know that it would sell and that there is already public demand for the product? 

 

The Star Trek film scores (which Lukas has been involved with) have done very well and I am willing to pay $25 for each film score expanded and remastered. I believe the same holds true for Bond fans and the un expanded Bond film scores. 

 

It's too bad that all of this is apparently falling on deaf ears at EMI and MGM. 

 

I did send an email to EMI today requesting for the release of the scores and again that they would be in demand by many. 

 

Would an online campaign be of value? Why hasn't one been started and picked up by all of the Bond sites and Bond social website pages?

 

At this point I don't think it would hurt to have all of the demand data in one place. 

 

I'm sure all avenues have been explored by Intrada, FSM and La La Land Records. They would have more insight or leverage than most of us would. 

I also believe those labels are aware that the albums would sell very well by being expanded and reissued.



#8 scaramunga

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:50 PM

Since the 50th anniversary obviously was no sales incentive enough for a re-release of complete and remastered Bond scores, I don´t think we will see these for at least another 20 or 25 years.

 

Maybe, if we´re really lucky, some of the mentioned specialty labels will be able to release some of the previously unreleased cues - but we shouldn´t hold our breath. The situation with all the rightsholders is too complicated. Too many beancounters, too little passion for this music. They rather sit on the rights then do something with it.

 

They'll come out at some point without notice likely.  That's how it started with Star Trek, and they only have two of the films left to expand.  After the success of Skyfall, I'm sure that they will try to capitalize on it eventually, especially as the specialty labels as you mentioned are able to release much more now.

 

 I hope you are right... 



#9 Leo R.

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:49 AM

At least SOMEONE at Capitol records is rereleasing Bond soundtracks at the moment...

 

Due for release on vinyl on April 16, 2013:

Dr. No

Goldfinger

Live and let die

 

http://debrief.comma...essed-to-vinyl/

http://www.cdunivers...asp?pid=8914007

http://www.cdunivers...939&style=music

 

If I'm not mistaken this is the first rerelease of vintage Bond soundtracks since 2003... Not counting the two dreadful pirate releases by Harkit.



#10 scaramunga

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:53 PM

At least SOMEONE at Capitol records is rereleasing Bond soundtracks at the moment...

 

Due for release on vinyl on April 16, 2013:

Dr. No

Goldfinger

Live and let die

 

http://debrief.comma...essed-to-vinyl/

http://www.cdunivers...asp?pid=8914007

http://www.cdunivers...939&style=music

 

If I'm not mistaken this is the first rerelease of vintage Bond soundtracks since 2003... Not counting the two dreadful pirate releases by Harkit.

 

Nothing like selling us stuff we already have?

 

I'm sure these will be fine, but come on. Let's get all of the scores out on cd or other properly. Something that was not properly done in 2003.

 

Who owns the rights to all of the James Bond score soundtracks? EMI, MGM, EON or other?



#11 scaramunga

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:10 PM

Great article on The Spy Who Loved Me score. Pipe up with some feedback and let them know a full release of the film score is needed!!

 

http://marvinhamlisc...y-who-loved-me/



#12 Turn

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 01:56 PM

The release of the expanded soundtracks 10 years ago was one of my favorite times as a Bond fan, merchandise wise. Suddenly we had access to all of these great gems of unreleased, at least in this format, music that enhanced our enjoyment of the films after having worn out the grooves on the LPs over the years. I was especially pumped for DAF, which was always one of my favorite scores to begin with, and got everything and more.

 

In fact, I got DAF and LALD right before a big snowstorm hit and enjoying those as we became snowed in. Then collecting OHMSS, TB and YOLT. Somebody said the marketing was bad and they are right. I recall the week these were released and none of the big box stores such as Best Buy in my area carried them to my shock. I had to travel to a mall with an FYE store in a nearby town to find all the new ones.

 

I eventually collected all of them but OP and TLD, which I already had in earlier expanded form, from stores in LA, Fla. and even the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. I know I could've just ordered them online, but tracking them down was part of the fun.

 

I'd go for specialty releases of the remaining films for the extra bit of coin. Consider some of the oddball films they've gotten and something as popular as Bond would seem to be a given. But it never seems to be that easy with the Bond series on some merchandising issues, unless it means trading cards, die-cast cars and home video.

 

TSWLM has long been one of the less interesting scores for me, personally, but the more I think about it, I'm intrigued by the possibilities of having the studio and theatrical cuts of these tracks. Maybe that's the last remaining holy grail of Bond scores.



#13 scaramunga

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:36 AM

The release of the expanded soundtracks 10 years ago was one of my favorite times as a Bond fan, merchandise wise. Suddenly we had access to all of these great gems of unreleased, at least in this format, music that enhanced our enjoyment of the films after having worn out the grooves on the LPs over the years. I was especially pumped for DAF, which was always one of my favorite scores to begin with, and got everything and more.

 

In fact, I got DAF and LALD right before a big snowstorm hit and enjoying those as we became snowed in. Then collecting OHMSS, TB and YOLT. Somebody said the marketing was bad and they are right. I recall the week these were released and none of the big box stores such as Best Buy in my area carried them to my shock. I had to travel to a mall with an FYE store in a nearby town to find all the new ones.

 

I eventually collected all of them but OP and TLD, which I already had in earlier expanded form, from stores in LA, Fla. and even the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. I know I could've just ordered them online, but tracking them down was part of the fun.

 

I'd go for specialty releases of the remaining films for the extra bit of coin. Consider some of the oddball films they've gotten and something as popular as Bond would seem to be a given. But it never seems to be that easy with the Bond series on some merchandising issues, unless it means trading cards, die-cast cars and home video.

 

TSWLM has long been one of the less interesting scores for me, personally, but the more I think about it, I'm intrigued by the possibilities of having the studio and theatrical cuts of these tracks. Maybe that's the last remaining holy grail of Bond scores.

Agreed. There was zero marketing for the Bond soundtrack reissues. They sold them as budget titles too. Not saying I enjoy paying more for soundtracks, but they could've done this with the Bond soundtracks. The demand is there if the product is done right.

 

I recall having to get them from Barnes and Nobles. I ordered in most of them, but skipped the ones that were previously out on Rykodisc.

 

I would really like to see all of the scores properly finished. Heck even the ones that are done could be revisited and include more music that they didn't have room for.

 

Hopefully the message can be made to EON or the Bond people to make it happen.

 

I am puzzled at why new mastering is being done by Capitol for the 3 LP's that are being reissued. Dr. No, Goldfinger and Live and Let Die.

 

Gives me hope that they would look at all of the scores and cd reissues.

 

I think Intrada, La La Land Records would be chomping at the bit to handle and distribute the projects.



#14 mikafu

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:15 PM

If I'm not mistaken this is the first rerelease of vintage Bond soundtracks since 2003... Not counting the two dreadful pirate releases by Harkit.

 

Including the July-Release of FRWL ?



#15 scaramunga

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

 

If I'm not mistaken this is the first rerelease of vintage Bond soundtracks since 2003... Not counting the two dreadful pirate releases by Harkit.

 

Including the July-Release of FRWL ?

 

 

Is the FRWL also a Harkit / pirate issue? 



#16 mikafu

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:03 PM

According to the Harkit Page, this comes in July:

 

russia_with_love_big.jpg



#17 Leo R.

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:08 PM

According to the Harkit Page, this comes in July:

 

 

 

Another dreadful crap release that doesn't contain anything you don't already own or could own.


Edited by Leo R., 05 June 2013 - 08:11 PM.


#18 scaramunga

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:03 PM

Seems like Capitol, EMI and EON should be aware of these releases?

 

Strange how the full scores for several of the films have still not been released on CD or itunes.



#19 Dan Gale

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:19 AM

For what it's worth, I cobbled this together from the DVD of TSWLM

http://soundcloud.co...the-spy/s-CGpuA

#20 Leo R.

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:53 PM

For what it's worth, I cobbled this together from the DVD of TSWLM

http://soundcloud.co...the-spy/s-CGpuA

 

Haha, that's funny :-)

 

Love your 'Bond mysteries' videos by the way.



#21 Grard Bond

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 10:37 PM

Seems like Capitol, EMI and EON should be aware of these releases?

 

Strange how the full scores for several of the films have still not been released on CD or itunes.

EMI/Capitol etc are just not interested to do so and they don't want to spend any money on it.



#22 scaramunga

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 02:34 AM

 

Seems like Capitol, EMI and EON should be aware of these releases?

 

Strange how the full scores for several of the films have still not been released on CD or itunes.

EMI/Capitol etc are just not interested to do so and they don't want to spend any money on it.

 

 

and yet... they had new mastering done for 2013 vinyl releases of Live And Let Die, Goldfinger and Dr. No??



#23 Grard Bond

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 08:36 AM

Ofcourse that is not as time consuming as searching for tapes and get the material ready to put it on a cd.

Nowedays the so-called new mastering is most of the time a joke anyway. Getting it louder is not realy what good mastering means.

For example: the 2003 new mastering for the AVTAK cd was worse than the older Japanese version I already had on cd.

Often they even not as specialy mastering it for LP albums, so it's completely wrong mastered. Most of the time the original LP album mastering is ways better than the new ones.


Edited by Grard Bond, 04 August 2013 - 08:42 AM.


#24 Dan Gale

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:28 AM


For what it's worth, I cobbled this together from the DVD of TSWLM

http://soundcloud.co...the-spy/s-CGpuA

Haha, that's funny :-)

Love your 'Bond mysteries' videos by the way.

Thanks, man. Always nice to have a fan. Now I have two. :)

Edited by Dan Gale, 04 August 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#25 scaramunga

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:54 PM

Ofcourse that is not as time consuming as searching for tapes and get the material ready to put it on a cd.

Nowedays the so-called new mastering is most of the time a joke anyway. Getting it louder is not realy what good mastering means.

For example: the 2003 new mastering for the AVTAK cd was worse than the older Japanese version I already had on cd.

Often they even not as specialy mastering it for LP albums, so it's completely wrong mastered. Most of the time the original LP album mastering is ways better than the new ones.

For The Man With The Golden Gun they would not have to do a "search" since they already have all of the music. Kendall ran out of budget and time to finish that score.

 

It's pretty easy to say that tapes are lost or missing when they haven't been "searched" for to begin with too.

 

There are also plenty of independent soundtrack labels that would be willing to do the work on the remaining Roger Moore Bond scores.