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TLD - Does anyone else think it falls apart in the 3rd act?


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#61 sharpshooter

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

In my opinion, Koskov is a better villain than he's given credit for. He's more low key in comparison to Sanchez, understandable. Koskov was in the game of cosying up, appearing non threatening and charming. Bond eventually saw through it, but he was nonetheless a smooth manipulator. He sold propositions and situations. For example, he was more than happy to have Kara, who admired him, killed by Bond during his 'defection'. 



#62 doublenoughtspy

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:19 PM

Georgi Georgi Georgi

 

I think Koskov is almost too likable.  We don't witness him do anything bad until Afghanistan.

 

In Tangier he does hint that another agent should be eliminated, but he is kind of removed from it because he influences Whitaker who tells Necros to do it.



#63 Iceskater101

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

He is too likeable and he is a wimp.



#64 gibraltarmonkey

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:09 AM

one thing I have not been too sure about; does bond ever think Pushkin is possibly behind the killings? he tells M the story sounds far fetched, but does he start to think otherwise when M shows him the tag with death to spies written on it.

#65 sharpshooter

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:54 AM

In Tangier he does hint that another agent should be eliminated, but he is kind of removed from it because he influences Whitaker who tells Necros to do it.


Exactly. I see that as a positive in his characterisation. He convinced people to go down avenues, almost making them think it was their idea, when it was his. He was playing a careful game of 'Survivor'. 

 

It was a subtle characterisation but no less effective. We don't witness him doing anything shocking but he's behind it. Like his 'some of the best shots are women' comment to sell what has just happened, while appearing nervous. 

 

For example:


Fakes defection - Kara, who had full trust in Koskov due to gifts etc, to be killed in the process.
Convincingly acts out being captured again at the safe house - has Necros cause mayhem with his explosive bottles.
Uses this as leverage to blame Pushkin - M believes the plot and orders Bond to kill him.
Hints another agent should be eliminated - this occurs. 
Betrays Kara again, this time blatantly, then imprisons her and Bond.

 

Not very likeable behaviour, yet he appears this way while selling the deceptions. 

 



#66 Professor Pi

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:19 AM

The part I don't buy in the third act is when Bond suggests "the shipment never arrives" and Shah goes along with it after explaining they need the revenue to fund their rebellion. I haven't seen this movie in about ten years, and when I last saw it it was the first Bond movie I watched after 9/11.  Very difficult to watch then--not sure 'dated' is the right word, but very uncomfortable on the heals of knowing how world events had unfolded.

 

As for Kara, I think she is the most realistic of the Bond girls.  Attractive, albeit not stunning, and a little gawky but an ordinary woman thrown into a world of spies and violence.  She fares far better than Mary Goodnight or Stacey Sutton, and more believable than Holly Goodhead, Wai Lin, Christmas Jones, Anya Amasova, etc.  That's why, of all the Bond films, I find The Living Daylights is the best date movie.

 

LTK has it beat as far as villains go, but even Die Another day found it suitable to pay homage to TLD's ending.



#67 Lucky

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:41 PM

I didn't mind most of the stuff. But the fight at the end with Whitaker was a bit of a low point I thought, but it doesn't detract very much from my opinion of the film.



#68 Grard Bond

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

When I watched TLD again a couple of weeks ago this movie felt to me somewhat dated, even the so called cool action sequences, which I always liked very much in the past, were now just ok, not realy exiting anymore, like the carchase with the Aston, or the final confrontation with Whitaker. Especialy the latter felt to me a little silly.

I like Dalton and D'abo, they are good together. Two real characters who are getting warm feelings for each other. That is done very well, I think.

Basicaly I like TLD until half of the movie.

The first realy dissapointment for me is the introduction of Leiter. He looks like a surfdude to me, not Bond's best friend.

When they go to Afganistan the movie gets duller and duller: first you get the not great staged jailfight.

Then you get the very slow and overlong final action- and big fightscene on the Russian airbase, it looks like it takes a century before Bond gets the plain into the air.

Also it's very unreal that after his jeep exploded Koskov is just jumping out of the car and is not realy hurt at all (besides burnwounds).

 

There is also in this movie not a real great opponent for Bond.

Koskov is played by Jeroen Krabbe and for me, as a Dutchman, it is fun to see him in a Bondmovie, but ofcourse he is not in the same league of villians like Dr. No, Goldfinger or Blofeld.

 

Jeroen Krabbe is in Holland very famous, but a lot of people don't like him that much, because he is a little... how do you say that in good English?... full of himself!

For example: everytime somebody famous in Holland dies, Krabbe is telling everyone (on TV ofcourse) that he was very close with the deceased and that he, or she, was a real good friend of him.

Even when someone dies from the Dutch Royal family.

A lot of people don't believe him and don't take him very seriously.

 

I think fellow Dutch actor Rutger Hauer would make a better Bondvillian, he is much more charismatic and is also probably a better actor!



#69 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

Aside from the stunning action set piece fight hanging from the plane, yes it does fall apart a little. The fianl confrontation feels more like an epilogue - should've been a little more ambitious with that.



#70 Guy Haines

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:48 PM

I think saying it “falls apart” may be a bit too harsh. I agree that the third act drags just a little bit, but even “drags” might be too strong a term. I think the two less interesting bits for me are the ones at the airbase with all the shooting and the lack of background music. It is a little long and with Bond stuck in the plane, I kind of miss Dalton. But really, the movie makes up for it with that fantastic cargo net sequence. I remember watching it the first time around and wondering to myself how in the world they had managed to shoot it and make it look so realistic. It blew my mind and the tension for me at that point was at an all time high. It helps that Necros is such a fantastic henchman as well.

Perhaps my least favorite bit is the confrontation with Whitaker. There is just something about that sequence that lacks a bit of luster for me. Maybe it’s just the dark lighting of the scene, it’s not a bad scene I just don’t enjoy it as much as the others.

All this aside, I simply LOVE TLD. It’s like a fine wine for me, gets even better with age and subsequent viewings.

Funny, I actually quite liked that Bond -v- Whitaker scene at the end. Probably because the villain is giving Bond a brief history lesson - or rather alternate history regarding the American civil war - before taking him by surprise. I think Whitaker was underused as a villain - he's the real driving force of the bad guys plot, yet he's given very little screen time.



#71 Turn

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:30 PM

There is also in this movie not a real great opponent for Bond.

Koskov is played by Jeroen Krabbe and for me, as a Dutchman, it is fun to see him in a Bondmovie, but ofcourse he is not in the same league of villians like Dr. No, Goldfinger or Blofeld.

 

Jeroen Krabbe is in Holland very famous, but a lot of people don't like him that much, because he is a little... how do you say that in good English?... full of himself!

For example: everytime somebody famous in Holland dies, Krabbe is telling everyone (on TV ofcourse) that he was very close with the deceased and that he, or she, was a real good friend of him.

Even when someone dies from the Dutch Royal family.

A lot of people don't believe him and don't take him very seriously.

 

I think fellow Dutch actor Rutger Hauer would make a better Bondvillian, he is much more charismatic and is also probably a better actor!

Rutger Hauer was always being touted as a potential Bond villain back in the '80s, I think most heavily for the Zorin role. But he was quoted as saying he'd only appear in a Bond movie if he could play Bond as he was trying to get away from playing villains. Yeah, right, a blond Bond. ;)

 

I remember when Krabbe was cast in TLD thinking he could be a potentially bad-ass villain like the one he'd played in a Richard Gere movie, I think called No Mercy or something like that a few months before. But he ended up playing Koskov as more of a dupe than tough guy. Kind of how I thought Javier Bardam would make Silva like his No Country For Old Men character. I now appreciate what both Krabbe and Bardam were doing instead of going down a previous route.



#72 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

Rutger Hauer was always being touted as a potential Bond villain back in the '80s, I think most heavily for the Zorin role.

 

I've watched some terrible films, such as the recent exploitation parody Hobo With A Shotgun just because Rutger's in them. However bad the film may be, Rutger is always great - always a scene steeler - he's fantastic, a real one-off!

 

Everyone justifiably remembers him for Blade Runner, in which he was unbelievably great. He wrote those memorable end lines about 'Tears in rain...' himself, just before they shot it. But my personal favourite Rutger performance is his enigmatic, mysterious psycho, John Rider in another of the 80's best movies, The Hitcher (please avoid the sh*te Sean Bean remake, as well as the embarrassing straight-to-video sequel).

 

Rutger Hauer is the greatest Bond villain that never was. To my mind, however, it's not too late for him - he can still 'out-sinister' most actors with his enduring unique screen presence and still could make an excellent villain.

 

Interesting that two of my favourite actors, Rutger and W​alken, were both up for Zorin.  Max Zorin's  one the franchises' best villains, just a pity he was in the franchises' answer to CACOON - the movie about the elderly acting like teenagers - Funny it came out in 1985, same year as AVTAK....  OAPs must've been the zeitgeist!


Edited by Odd Jobbies, 12 March 2013 - 09:31 AM.


#73 Turn

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:26 PM

David Bowie was also being pursued for Zorin, but didn't want to do it, saying something like "I don't want to spend four months watching my double fall off a mountain."

 

I saw The Hitcher when it came out and thought how perfect Hauer was in that. The line about how blood jets out of an eyeball kind of said it all. I've also liked his anti-hero roles such as Flesh and Blood and Wanted Dead or Alive. I even remember a restaurant near where I went to college had a Rutger Hauer sandwich. No idea what was in it.

 

He also wouldn't need to necessarily be a villain in a future Bond film, he could play a contact or a role similar to Mathis.



#74 Piz Gloria 1969

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:50 PM

A celeb full of himself , no kidding ;)



#75 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:30 AM

...I even remember a restaurant near where I went to college had a Rutger Hauer sandwich. No idea what was in it.

 

Maybe human a finger a'la The Hitcher 'burger and fries' scene ;)

 

I'd be very happy to see him in any role, but i'd prefer him as a villain rather than ally. He showed he can still make a superb bad guy in Sin City and The Dark Knight and will be popping up in the coming season of True Blood.

 

He always made a great anti-hero. As well as the 80's classics Wanted: Dead or Alive and Flesh+Blood there was Ladyhawke, Salute of the Jugger and the little known gem A Breed Apart, in which he turned in his usual enigmatically memorable performances.

 

In '92 there was an odd dystopian British flick set in near future London called Split Second that was a kind of cross between Manhunter and Alien in which he hunted a supernatural, monstrous serial killer. Ultimately it's hampered by cheesy dialogue and cheap effects, but is nonetheless highly watchable for Rutger's central anti-hero performance.

 

He's even once been a cult classic straight up hero in the excellent movie Blind Fury.

 

I think he's got a lot to offer Bond, so hopefully it could still happen.


Edited by Odd Jobbies, 21 April 2013 - 09:36 AM.