27 replies to this topic

[W1llardWhite]

DANIEL CRAIG FANS! I just came across this fan rewrite of Quantum of Solace and I have to say that I love it! I think that it would have made the film a lot better and more interesting, and also would have made it stand side by side with Casino Royale.

Have a read and see what you think?

http://vivavigilante...ntum-of-solace/

[marktmurphy]

I was prepared to leap on this, but I quite like the idea of Bond foolishly giving Haines enough evidence to paint himself as a traitor to the UK Government.

It is a bit silly to remove Fields and keep the desert scene though. In the film he gives Greene the oil as revenge for Fields oil-based death.

[tdalton]

I don't really think that this does much to improve on Quantum of Solace. I think the film largely works because there's an absence of Yusef throughout the story. Making him a bigger part of it makes it feel like more of a straight-up revenge film, which is not the point of Quantum. The point of the film is that Bond hasn't gone rogue and isn't obsessed with revenge against Quantum. He does want to face the people responsible for Vesper's death, but at no point does he jeopardize the mission to accomplish that goal.

Also, Fields' involvement in the story needed to be expanded, not deleted entirely. I think that her death could have been quite a pivotal moment for Bond had they done more with it, as we get a glimpse of him actually feeling some remorse for his actions (as well as another glimpse of him realizing where things fit into the "bigger picture") when M chastises him for how his recklessness got an innocent woman killed. You also can't have Greene's desert scene with the oil without Fields being in the film. The can of oil is directly linked to Fields' death and Bond making some small attempt to atone for her death by forcing Greene into a situation where he creates his own demise by either drinking the oil or dying in the desert.

Camille's backstory also needs to be remained, and is certainly not "nonsense". While the backstory may be a bit cliche, it still adds to the emotional weight of the film, and without it there isn't the powerful scene where Bond actually considers putting her out of her misery before the wall falls apart revealing the explosive canister that he's able to use to get them out of the hotel.

[seawolfnyy]

I still think that in 30 years Quantum will be regarded as a classic. The more I watch it, the more lenient I am becoming with Forster's direction. I like the fact that Greene is a more realistic villain than say Gustav Graves or the film version of Drax. There are only 3 things that I would change. 1, the shaky camera as it makes the chase in Italy almost unwatchable. 2, the theme song, I would leave the song, but have only Alicia Keys sing it. 3, Reinsert a number of the deleted scenes to flesh out the story as at 106 minutes it is just too damn short. But it really is a far better film than people give it credit for.

[mttvolcano]

I like parts of it especially the first parts, but when they take out part of the Camille and revenge story; that's a little too harsh to rewrite the film I think, since the writers deliberately used the For Your Eyes only story line for that.

Edited by mttvolcano, 21 September 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[DR76]

Poor QoS. Fans react to this movie in the same way SW fans react to the Prequel Trilogy.

[marktmurphy]

It is a bit weird to try and remove the Camille backstory, that is one of the fresher parts of QoS.

Camille's backstory also needs to be remained, and is certainly not "nonsense". While the backstory may be a bit cliche, it still adds to the emotional weight of the film, and without it there isn't the powerful scene where Bond actually considers putting her out of her misery before the wall falls apart revealing the explosive canister that he's able to use to get them out of the hotel.

Yeah I like that bit (although I'm not convinced they didn't nick it from one of the Spooks season finales where Penry-Jones considers killing Miranda Raison's character to save her from being raped by the baddies); it would be a shame to lose it, even though it is so under-directed as to actually be more subtext than actually explicit. I'm not sure if I actually noticed it on first viewing.

[seawolfnyy]

That was just plain awful. Too many villains, too many subplots, way too convoluted. The can of oil is symbolic specifically as retribution for Fields' death and omitting Fields essentially gets rid of any light-heartedness the film has. Her scenes (death scene notwithstanding) are far more humorous than the rest of the film. I agree with you tdalton that Camille's backstory is necessary and without it makes the scene where Bond considers shooting her useless. Also, Bond does not follow Camille's example, he has already realized that there are more important things than vengeance.
Camille- "Do you think I'll be able to sleep now?"
Bond- "I don't think the dead care about vengeance."

[AMC Hornet]

vivavigilante should change his moniker to MMQB.

He would have had nothing to tinker with if Paul Haggis had not done the real work and delivered a script - however imperfect - before the wrtiters' strike started.

What I think would have improved QoS would have been a longer running time - which could have been accomplished by simply reining in the frantic editing in the action scenes.

Plus, had EON known then that they weren't going to follow up on Quantum and Mr. White in the next film, they could have finished off White and Guy Haines, and given us all some closure.

[L4YRCAKE]

Camille seems like a huge problem in the story, particularly the really awkward and unnecessary kiss between her and Bond at the end, which felt tacked on and superficial, especially in light of his incredible display of confused helplessness and frightened white hot anger over Vesper in Casino Royale. Having him show emotions for any other woman at that point still felt wrong at that point in the story.

I think Camille and Fields could have been combined; she shows up with orders to take him home, then he finds out she got herself assigned to the case on purpose because she wants revenge on Green herself, and he allows her to stay for selfish reasons that end up getting her killed...?

I also think the biggest waste of the movie was Elvis. Green was really a terrific villain, but his lack of a physical match to Bond needed a counterweight that Elvis could have provided. Why was Elvis even in the movie? He accomplished nothing, had no presence whatsoever, and could have done much to save the empty parts of the film. The ending really fell flat for me, and having a good classic villain show up and surprise Bond for one last showdown (i.e., Tee Hee in Live And Let Die) either in Vesper's bf's apartment or in the snow would have given QoS some entertainment factor it was sorely missing at that point.

[Guy Haines]

Camille seems like a huge problem in the story, particularly the really awkward and unnecessary kiss between her and Bond at the end, which felt tacked on and superficial, especially in light of his incredible display of confused helplessness and frightened white hot anger over Vesper in Casino Royale. Having him show emotions for any other woman at that point still felt wrong at that point in the story.

I think Camille and Fields could have been combined; she shows up with orders to take him home, then he finds out she got herself assigned to the case on purpose because she wants revenge on Green herself, and he allows her to stay for selfish reasons that end up getting her killed...?

I also think the biggest waste of the movie was Elvis. Green was really a terrific villain, but his lack of a physical match to Bond needed a counterweight that Elvis could have provided. Why was Elvis even in the movie? He accomplished nothing, had no presence whatsoever, and could have done much to save the empty parts of the film. The ending really fell flat for me, and having a good classic villain show up and surprise Bond for one last showdown (i.e., Tee Hee in Live And Let Die) either in Vesper's bf's apartment or in the snow would have given QoS some entertainment factor it was sorely missing at that point.

I couldn't see the point of the Elvis character either. He didn't exactly leave Bond all shook up, let alone caught in a trap with suspicious minds. I think more should have been made of Kabira. The film wasn't a pure revenge story - Bond wanted closure and answers, I think - but all along Bond was after Kabira, even if he couldn't admit it. I think I would have had Kabira as more closely associated with Greene - either doing his honeytrap routine with someone in Bolivia, or just as Greene's associate, perhaps responsible for the death of Agent Fields, with Greene perishing in the hotel building, and Kabira being left with the motor oil or dehydration choice in the desert. Cut then to the missing Guy Haines and Mr White scene - or not, as the case may be.

[marktmurphy]

No, I didn't mind the way they dealt with Yusef: Bond (and the audience) think he will kill Yusef but it turns out that he's learnt not to. That was quite tidy.
But maybe something that could have been done better (and less like a Bourne film!).

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

I still think that in 30 years Quantum will be regarded as a classic.

.... Just like happened with another misunderstood Bond movie: LTK; but wait, that never happened. So, I don't really think this will going to happen with this equally trend follower QOS.

[seawolfnyy]

I still think that in 30 years Quantum will be regarded as a classic.

.... Just like happened with another misunderstood Bond movie: LTK; but wait, that never happened. So, I don't really think this will going to happen with this equally trend follower QOS.

I equate it more to what happened with OHMSS. It was hated in 1969, but is regarded as one of the best today. It is a shame what happened to LTK. It is a great film that gets lost in the midst of everything else and is only truly appreciated by Bond fans.

[L4YRCAKE]

I still think that in 30 years Quantum will be regarded as a classic.

.... Just like happened with another misunderstood Bond movie: LTK; but wait, that never happened. So, I don't really think this will going to happen with this equally trend follower QOS.

I equate it more to what happened with OHMSS. It was hated in 1969, but is regarded as one of the best today. It is a shame what happened to LTK. It is a great film that gets lost in the midst of everything else and is only truly appreciated by Bond fans.

Mmmm... I appreciate the sentiment, but QoS is no OHMSS. Quantum is overly panned and worth defending to be sure, and I do feel that had it come out before Casino Royale it would be held in much higher regard. BUT. QoS is still a very flawed movie, whereas OHMSS and CR are not.

In my opinion, of course...

[Jose]

Reading this thread kinda bums me out because I really liked Quantum of Solace.

I always thought that downplaying Yusef's role in the movie was one of the better points. It shows Bond "growing up" and moving on toward becoming a more effective agent. He finally saw the big picture. And I liked Greene as a villain: the character assassination bit at the party, drowning Fields in oil, and being a physical match for Bond.

The only beef I do have is that there was no real conclusion in regards to Mr. White or Haines.

[L4YRCAKE]

Reading this thread kinda bums me out because I really liked Quantum of Solace.

I always thought that downplaying Yusef's role in the movie was one of the better points. It shows Bond "growing up" and moving on toward becoming a more effective agent. He finally saw the big picture. And I liked Greene as a villain: the character assassination bit at the party, drowning Fields in oil, and being a physical match for Bond.

The only beef I do have is that there was no real conclusion in regards to Mr. White or Haines.

Sorry to hear we're bumming you out, I think everyone here also really liked Quantum Of Solace, for what it's worth....? I do think it's important to separate the legitimate criticism of QoS from the bandwagon bash-chorus that seems to break out every time the film gets mentioned. It's 2012, it's Bond, we have high expectations certainly. But I think 98% of the average criticism I hear of QoS (and I'm not making reference to anyone on this site) has no idea what they're talking about.

[byline]

I always thought that downplaying Yusef's role in the movie was one of the better points. It shows Bond "growing up" and moving on toward becoming a more effective agent. He finally saw the big picture. And I liked Greene as a villain: the character assassination bit at the party, drowning Fields in oil, and being a physical match for Bond.

The only beef I do have is that there was no real conclusion in regards to Mr. White or Haines.

I agree with this. "Quantum" certainly could have been better ... and I think that without the writers' strike, it would have been. But given the circumstances, they still managed to turn out a satisfying film, at least for me.

[Hockey Mask]

QoS was better than DAD and TND put together.

[seawolfnyy]

QoS was better than DAD and TND put together.

That's not saying much though. But your list has it ranked 8th, so I'll heed your words.

[archer1949]

vivavigilante should change his moniker to MMQB.

He would have had nothing to tinker with if Paul Haggis had not done the real work and delivered a script - however imperfect - before the wrtiters' strike started.

What I think would have improved QoS would have been a longer running time - which could have been accomplished by simply reining in the frantic editing in the action scenes.

Plus, had EON known then that they weren't going to follow up on Quantum and Mr. White in the next film, they could have finished off White and Guy Haines, and given us all some closure.

What this guy said.

There was nothing wrong with QOS that a quick editing polish couldn't fix. I thought it had a very compelling story. Although, yes, the villains were a bit unmemorable.

[seawolfnyy]

vivavigilante should change his moniker to MMQB.

He would have had nothing to tinker with if Paul Haggis had not done the real work and delivered a script - however imperfect - before the wrtiters' strike started.

What I think would have improved QoS would have been a longer running time - which could have been accomplished by simply reining in the frantic editing in the action scenes.

Plus, had EON known then that they weren't going to follow up on Quantum and Mr. White in the next film, they could have finished off White and Guy Haines, and given us all some closure.

What this guy said.

There was nothing wrong with QOS that a quick editing polish couldn't fix. I thought it had a very compelling story. Although, yes, the villains were a bit unmemorable.

I don't think they thought in 2008 that the next film would take 4 years. So I'm sure the idea was to follow up on the Quantum storyline. They probably would've ended it had they known how the development on Skyfall would go.

[L4YRCAKE]

vivavigilante should change his moniker to MMQB.

He would have had nothing to tinker with if Paul Haggis had not done the real work and delivered a script - however imperfect - before the wrtiters' strike started.

What I think would have improved QoS would have been a longer running time - which could have been accomplished by simply reining in the frantic editing in the action scenes.

Plus, had EON known then that they weren't going to follow up on Quantum and Mr. White in the next film, they could have finished off White and Guy Haines, and given us all some closure.

What this guy said.

There was nothing wrong with QOS that a quick editing polish couldn't fix. I thought it had a very compelling story. Although, yes, the villains were a bit unmemorable.

I don't think they thought in 2008 that the next film would take 4 years. So I'm sure the idea was to follow up on the Quantum storyline. They probably would've ended it had they known how the development on Skyfall would go.

It may go without saying that the producers now have a decision to make about whether to throw Quantum down the memory hole or resurrect it or outright replace it with SPECTRE, which I believe they now have the rights to and all that entails. I'm curious what they go with, I'm reasonably certain they'll do one or the other, or perhaps pit one against the other, which would be kind of interesting.

@W1llardWhite: I'd meant to mention earlier that I like your revised QoS treatment very much. Don't agree with all of it, but it's really well thought out and I agree with it more than disagree and what I don't agree with I totally respect. Well done!

[Pussfeller]

It may go without saying that the producers now have a decision to make about whether to throw Quantum down the memory hole or resurrect it or outright replace it with SPECTRE, which I believe they now have the rights to and all that entails. I'm curious what they go with, I'm reasonably certain they'll do one or the other, or perhaps pit one against the other, which would be kind of interesting.

Or Quantum could turn out to be just a piddling subsidiary of SPECTRE, sort of the Columbia Pictures to SPECTRE's Sony.

[QuantumOfRoyale]

It may go without saying that the producers now have a decision to make about whether to throw Quantum down the memory hole or resurrect it or outright replace it with SPECTRE, which I believe they now have the rights to and all that entails. I'm curious what they go with, I'm reasonably certain they'll do one or the other, or perhaps pit one against the other, which would be kind of interesting.

Or Quantum could turn out to be just a piddling subsidiary of SPECTRE, sort of the Columbia Pictures to SPECTRE's Sony.

For what reason? Is there some sort of monumental difference between the two I'm not getting? To me, they'd always seemed very similar, if anything, Quantum being considerably more interesting...

[Judo chop]

I also think the biggest waste of the movie was Elvis.

I couldn't see the point of the Elvis character either.

Elvis may be the best thing about QOS. (And for the record, I'm not one who is completely down on QOS either.)

For all of the damage the rushed editing does to the film, it works wonders with the Elvis anti-character.

Just had to say that. Thanks.

[L4YRCAKE]

It may go without saying that the producers now have a decision to make about whether to throw Quantum down the memory hole or resurrect it or outright replace it with SPECTRE, which I believe they now have the rights to and all that entails. I'm curious what they go with, I'm reasonably certain they'll do one or the other, or perhaps pit one against the other, which would be kind of interesting.

Or Quantum could turn out to be just a piddling subsidiary of SPECTRE, sort of the Columbia Pictures to SPECTRE's Sony.

For what reason? Is there some sort of monumental difference between the two I'm not getting? To me, they'd always seemed very similar, if anything, Quantum being considerably more interesting...

Well, Quantum seemed like a creation made purely because they didn't have the rights to SPECTRE, otherwise I think they are essentially identical, although technically SPECTRE robs and terrorizes folks through extortion, whereas I think Quantum's aim was to control the world's natural resources for its own self interest...? But that's probably splitting hairs.

What I've been curious about for a while now is whether Skyfall's original premise was to be a third act in a Quantum trilogy but was rewritten as a standalone? Perhaps Silva's original conception was for him to be the new Blofeld...? It's not a stretch.

I also think the biggest waste of the movie was Elvis.

I couldn't see the point of the Elvis character either.

Elvis may be the best thing about QOS. (And for the record, I'm not one who is completely down on QOS either.)

For all of the damage the rushed editing does to the film, it works wonders with the Elvis anti-character.

Just had to say that. Thanks.

You must give me the name of your oculist.

[QuantumOfRoyale]

It may go without saying that the producers now have a decision to make about whether to throw Quantum down the memory hole or resurrect it or outright replace it with SPECTRE, which I believe they now have the rights to and all that entails. I'm curious what they go with, I'm reasonably certain they'll do one or the other, or perhaps pit one against the other, which would be kind of interesting.

Or Quantum could turn out to be just a piddling subsidiary of SPECTRE, sort of the Columbia Pictures to SPECTRE's Sony.

For what reason? Is there some sort of monumental difference between the two I'm not getting? To me, they'd always seemed very similar, if anything, Quantum being considerably more interesting...

Well, Quantum seemed like a creation made purely because they didn't have the rights to SPECTRE, otherwise I think they are essentially identical, although technically SPECTRE robs and terrorizes folks through extortion, whereas I think Quantum's aim was to control the world's natural resources for its own self interest...? But that's probably splitting hairs.

What I've been curious about for a while now is whether Skyfall's original premise was to be a third act in a Quantum trilogy but was rewritten as a standalone? Perhaps Silva's original conception was for him to be the new Blofeld...? It's not a stretch.

I also think the biggest waste of the movie was Elvis.

I couldn't see the point of the Elvis character either.

Elvis may be the best thing about QOS. (And for the record, I'm not one who is completely down on QOS either.)

For all of the damage the rushed editing does to the film, it works wonders with the Elvis anti-character.

Just had to say that. Thanks.

You must give me the name of your oculist.

No, that seemed to me to be only Greene's plan.

And there actually is a powerful difference between the two. Whereas SPECTRE was quick to have their own island and publicly hold the world for ransom, QUANTUM seems to operate moreso in the shadows, contacting third parties to avoid implicating itself. While SPECTRE seemed to be comprised mostly of criminals, gangsters, and psychotics, QUANTUM is connected to the highest circles of political and corporate power in the world. So in a way...QUANTUM is smarter.

So yeah, while QUANTUM is no-doubt inspired by SPECTRE, the two organizations are clearly very different.