36 replies to this topic

[Golden Claw]

Pardon me if this topic has been started before. For the vast majority of people, James Bond films are light-hearted escapist superhero action movies that come once in a few years. No doubt, as Bond fans, we have a different perception of James Bond as compared to... non-Bond fans. So I ask, have been moments, when as a Bond fan, you felt like ripping out your hair? Here are some of mine:

1) I am from India, and 97% of the people I've met don't know that James Bond is meant to be British (because English film = American Hollywood film, see?)

2) That a 'Bond girl' must be sassy and gun-wielding, and pose alongside Bond with her gun, in the Jinx/ Mrs Smith mold.

3) When I read on internet forum discussions stuff like:
Q: Who would you like to see as a black James Bond?
A: Dizzee Rascal, P Diddy, Will Smith.

Q: Isn't it time we had a female James Bond?
A: Angelina Jolie (unanimous), Halle Berry.

Q: Who should be the next James Bond?
A: Nicholas Cage, Brad Pitt, George Clooney.

What about you? Any groan/ headwall/ headdesk moments as a Bond fan?

[thecasinoroyale]

Nice idea Golden Claw!

One for me straight off is when people say "If you've seen one Bond film you've seen them all!" or "They are all the same!"

That does my head right in! Sure they have the same character, the same drive and the same outcome of saving us from bad guys, but christ...just watch them and then you'll know they're no-way NEAR the same as another one!





Although, no I suppose thinking about it, if you've seen 'A View To A Kill' you won't need to watch 'GoldenEye' as they are the same anyway! Jeeez!

Grr..! This thread could help us release lots of our inner angst, like Bond-counselling!

[Guy Haines]

Almost anything written about Bond in the red top tabloid press. Sometimes they get it right, but very often the tabloid reports have a record of staggering inaccuracy. (How many times have Anthony Hopkins and Kevin Spacey been tapped for the next Bond villain in the press? Times many!)

Any reports which state that this week's hit singer or band has signed to perform the new Bond theme. Again, the track record of getting it right has been poor.

Cinema reviews of the new Bond film that have clearly been written by someone who couldn't be bothered to watch the whole film or even turn up to see it at all. Many's the time I've read reviews and wondered "was this person watching the same film as me?"

The lazy default setting of some in the media - namely that only Connery is the one true Bond. And I'm a Sean Connery fan. But each Bond actor has brought something to the table, and they deserve more than a dismissive "not as good as Connery and never will be."

[thecasinoroyale]

Yeah, that's a good one Guy, the fact that people who don't REALLY understand what the Bond universe is all about label Connery as THE pinnacle of all things Bond, and that 'Goldfinger' is the standard all Bond films should follow to be as good as that.

'Goldfinger' isn't that great, it's only good as it introduced so many iconic things that have been used ever since in Bond films and it's very over hyped. It's not a benchmark for Bond films to use and Connery is a very good Bond, but he was only the first to capture the majority of fans, so this doesn't make him automatically the pinnacle of all other Bond's to aspire too.


God this thread is getting me all worked up ranting about these things...haha!

[Golden Claw]

@thecasinoroyale: tell me about it!

I remembered another incident. Some years ago, I was watching YOLT on TV with my friends. When Blofeld made his appearance, they said: "hey, this guy's totally ripped off Dr Evil!"
Me: *facepalm*

Thank god they didn't say that Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me are copied from Goldmember and The Spy Who Shagged Me.

[thecasinoroyale]

I remembered another incident. Some years ago, I was watching YOLT on TV with my friends. When Blofeld made his appearance, they said: "hey, this guy's totally ripped off Dr Evil!"

Oh dear!

[Hector Pelon]

Ok, the "it's time for a black bond" pisses me off to no end, like somehow a character being white is oppressive to the black community and that casting a black actor would be considered progress.

The way the 2 best bonds... without exception... are always Connery and whoever happens to be the latest. Brosnan was "The best since Connery", Craig IS "the best since Connery", and if Steve Coogan landed the role next, he'd be "the best since Connery".

Agreed on the tough Bond girls thing. Every Bond film, he seems to have "finally met his match" in a girl who is described as "Bond's equal". Bring back feminine Bond girls again! Every other Bond girl is an agent or operative of some sort, I don't give a pschitt if it's the 21st century, women are as pschitt now doing dangerous mans work as they were in the 60s. I guarantee, female agents and soldier chicks do not look like supermodels, but ugly, manly dykes.

Lazy journalism, especially with regards to Roger Moore. I'm talking about frequent puns about his eyebrows, his humorous approach, and the time he wore a clown suit.

Edited by Hector Pelon, 10 May 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Miles Miservy]

Nice idea Golden Claw!

One for me straight off is when people say "If you've seen one Bond film you've seen them all!" or "They are all the same!"

That does my head right in! Sure they have the same character, the same drive and the same outcome of saving us from bad guys, but christ...just watch them and then you'll know they're no-way NEAR the same as another one!





Although, no I suppose thinking about it, if you've seen 'A View To A Kill' you won't need to watch 'GoldenEye' as they are the same anyway! Jeeez!

Grr..! This thread could help us release lots of our inner angst, like Bond-counselling!

Though there's no doubt that some OO7 adventures repeat themselves:

FRWL / FYEO
GF / AVTAK
YOLT / TSWLM
DAF / DAD

Each one does try to do something different. For example, I enjoyed the twist in TWINE when the true villain was revealed.

@thecasinoroyale: tell me about it!

I remembered another incident. Some years ago, I was watching YOLT on TV with my friends. When Blofeld made his appearance, they said: "hey, this guy's totally ripped off Dr Evil!"
Me: *facepalm*

Thank god they didn't say that Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me are copied from Goldmember and The Spy Who Shagged Me.

I had a similar experience when someone told me they liked OO7 movies until Sean Connery took over the role from the other guy (Moore) & they weren't as good.

[Miles Miservy]

Almost anything written about Bond in the red top tabloid press. Sometimes they get it right, but very often the tabloid reports have a record of staggering inaccuracy. (How many times have Anthony Hopkins and Kevin Spacey been tapped for the next Bond villain in the press? Times many!)

Any reports which state that this week's hit singer or band has signed to perform the new Bond theme. Again, the track record of getting it right has been poor.

Cinema reviews of the new Bond film that have clearly been written by someone who couldn't be bothered to watch the whole film or even turn up to see it at all. Many's the time I've read reviews and wondered "was this person watching the same film as me?"

The lazy default setting of some in the media - namely that only Connery is the one true Bond. And I'm a Sean Connery fan. But each Bond actor has brought something to the table, and they deserve more than a dismissive "not as good as Connery and never will be."

I agree, I believe that each film was written to the strengths of each actor.
(The following hypotheticals are suggested w/OO7 being age appropriate)
For example, If Sean Connery was cast in, say, OCTOPUSSY, it just wouldn't have worked. Or if Pierce Brosnan was cast in LALD, it would not have carried off as well. I'd have a hard time imagining Roger Moore Going after Sanchez in LTK. (you get the idea).

[Trevelyan 006]

I've had the "too boring" card thrown at me a few times, which is totally incorrect... As well as much George Lazenby hate. Both are equally unacceptable!

People have also said to me that they do not enjoy the films because there are too many corny gadgets ivolved, or in other words, Bond parallels an inspector gadget type in people's minds... Which is also utterly untrue!

[AMC Hornet]

There are two other threads like this in the forums (Bond 'facts' that anger you & Stupidest questions) - maybe the mods could do a 'topics merged' job on them?

For me it's the TV guide blurbs that all start "James Bond saves the world from...(insert villain's plot here, eg: a million-dollar assassin who's constructed a solar death ray)."

I understand that the rationale is: if America isn't involved, Americans won't be interested in watching. If a Brit saves London or Istanbul, so what? But when someone - anyone - saves the world, he's saving America too; now they have a vested interest in watching and cheering him on - even if he is a Brit.

That and, as Golden Claw mentions, people with no sense of history or chronology, like the flamers who complain about DAD "ripping off" the mini-breather from Star Wars Episode 1. Sorry kids, but originality wasn't Lucas' strong suit - he didn't even conceive of light sabres first.

And, yes, "Is that the one one with the boat chase? They all tend to run together..."

[Miles Miservy]

There are two other threads like this in the forums (Bond 'facts' that anger you & Stupidest questions) - maybe the mods could do a 'topics merged' job on them?

For me it's the TV guide blurbs that all start "James Bond saves the world from...(insert villain's plot here, eg: a million-dollar assassin who's constructed a solar death ray)."

I understand that the rationale is: if America isn't involved, Americans won't be interested in watching. If a Brit saves London or Istanbul, so what? But when someone - anyone - saves the world, he's saving America too; now they have a vested interest in watching and cheering him on - even if he is a Brit.

That and, as Golden Claw mentions, people with no sense of history or chronology, like the flamers who complain about DAD "ripping off" the mini-breather from Star Wars Episode 1. Sorry kids, but originality wasn't Lucas' strong suit - he didn't even conceive of light sabres first.

And, yes, "Is that the one one with the boat chase? They all tend to run together..."

It is surprising when you realize that OO7 is not on a mission in The United States as often as you might think (6 out of 22). In fact, George Lazenby & Pierce Brosnan are the only 2 that have NOT.

[larrythefatcat]

That and, as Golden Claw mentions, people with no sense of history or chronology, like the flamers who complain about DAD "ripping off" the mini-breather from Star Wars Episode 1. Sorry kids, but originality wasn't Lucas' strong suit - he didn't even conceive of light sabres first.

It's quite telling when the 'Star Wars' prequels rip off some pretty obvious elements/character-types from 'Starchaser'... one of the biggest original 'Star Wars' ripoffs.

I don't get too many hair-ripping moments, for the most part, and it's probably because I tend to do a good job of surrounding myself with other Bond fans or people intelligent enough not to say stupid Bond-related things in my presence.

...which is good because I don't have a whole lot of hair that can be discarded in pointless ripping...

Edited by larrythefatcat, 10 May 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[DR76]

Ridiculous sound effects in "TMWTGG" and "AVTAK", plot holes, villains who resort to ridiculous lengths to kill Bond, and the antithesis of this:

That a 'Bond girl' must be sassy and gun-wielding, and pose alongside Bond with her gun, in the Jinx/ Mrs Smith mold.

I'd rather have a sassy and gun-wielding Bond girl than a sexed up damsel-in-distress, thank you very much.

[Golden Claw]

I forgot to mention an absolute gem of a comment I'd seen in one of the 'Isn't it time we had a female James Bond' fora I quoted in my original post: "Lol, what'll they think of next? Make M a guy?"

It irks me that only James Bond is brought up for skewering in fora like these. I mean, just check out some of the 'candidates' they've suggested. And the comments below the article are priceless.

http://www.ramascree...lack-james-bond

How come they don't discuss a black Indiana Jones or Chinese Sherlock Holmes or Indian Harry Potter or female Jason Bourne?

Yesterday, soon after I logged out of here, I was chatting on the phone with a friend, also a Bond fan, and I asked him the same question. He said that one acquaintance asked him in amazement: "What, you mean to say there are James Bond novels? Now don't tell me that the films are based on the novels!"

Edited by Golden Claw, 11 May 2012 - 06:57 AM.

[Dustin]

Well, I suspect there may also be a fair bit of pulling one's leg involved in some of these.

[Miles Miservy]

I forgot to mention an absolute gem of a comment I'd seen in one of the 'Isn't it time we had a female James Bond' fora I quoted in my original post: "Lol, what'll they think of next? Make M a guy?"

It irks me that only James Bond is brought up for skewering in fora like these. I mean, just check out some of the 'candidates' they've suggested. And the comments below the article are priceless.

http://www.ramascree...lack-james-bond

How come they don't discuss a black Indiana Jones or Chinese Sherlock Holmes or Indian Harry Potter or female Jason Bourne?

Yesterday, soon after I logged out of here, I was chatting on the phone with a friend, also a Bond fan, and I asked him the same question. He said that one acquaintance asked him in amazement: "What, you mean to say there are James Bond novels? Now don't tell me that the films are based on the novels!"

If Lara Croft were a guy, he'd be John McClane.

[Messervy]

What about you? Any groan/ headwall/ headdesk moments as a Bond fan?

Yes. When the producers weren't able to say if there would actually be a next Bond movie...

[AMC Hornet]

I still hear some people refer to the last 007 as "Pierce Bronson."

[larrythefatcat]

How come they don't discuss a black Indiana Jones or Chinese Sherlock Holmes or Indian Harry Potter or female Jason Bourne?

They probably don't talk about an Indian Harry Potter because it's already been done by Bollywood. 'Hari Putar'... check it out!

Edited by larrythefatcat, 11 May 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

I still hear some people refer to the last 007 as "Pierce Bronson."

My little nephew once called him "Pierce Bosnian".

But returning to the hair-ripping moments as a Bond fan:

I recently visited a film music message board where some guy really found himself extremely clever and charming when pouring his disgust on all James Bond films and then admitted that he had only seen a few but still thought all of them humorless, boring, lacking in style and good action. And he vowed never to see another one since they were all so awful. And yes, he never saw any Craig Bond and did not intend to do so.

Which, of course, is fine, basically.

I just find it extremely annoying in general if someone who is uneducated about something nevertheless voices his/her opinion on that matter so severely without even looking into the subject.

[AMC Hornet]

I just find it extremely annoying in general if someone who is uneducated about something nevertheless voices his/her opinion on that matter so severely without even looking into the subject.

Spares them finding out, and having to admit (even to themselves), that they could be wrong about something.

Edited by AMC Hornet, 12 May 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

What winds me up is when the score composer is not allowed to write the theme song. This means that some mediocre pop star and their team get to force their (usually unsuitable) sound all over the title sequence, with the result that the melody won't be used throughout the rest of the film.

I can't believe that even John Barry was forced to co-write two theme songs with bands that were in favour at the time. Usually, the composer would collaborate with a lyricist, but Barry was told that Duran Duran had come up with a song and he had to help them finish it, whereas he was shoved into a room with a-ha and forced to collaborate. It was not a happy experience.

Although, to be fair, A View To A Kill and The Living Daylights are absolutely cracking songs.

[larrythefatcat]

What winds me up is when the score composer is not allowed to write the theme song. This means that some mediocre pop star and their team get to force their (usually unsuitable) sound all over the title sequence, with the result that the melody won't be used throughout the rest of the film.

I can't believe that even John Barry was forced to co-write two theme songs with bands that were in favour at the time. Usually, the composer would collaborate with a lyricist, but Barry was told that Duran Duran had come up with a song and he had to help them finish it, whereas he was shoved into a room with a-ha and forced to collaborate. It was not a happy experience.

Although, to be fair, A View To A Kill and The Living Daylights are absolutely cracking songs.

So, essentially, you're just saying you completely want to rip your hair out whenever you hear "Live and Let Die", "Licence to Kill", "Goldeneye", "Tomorrow Never Dies", "Die Another Day" or "Another Way to Die" because they weren't written by those films' composers?... I'm sure NO ONE ELSE feels the EXACT SAME WAY regarding those last two or three. *sarcasm alert*

"The James Bond Theme" and "From Russia With Love" are the only other official Bond film theme songs not written by the films' composers... but I wouldn't count those anyway on account of their classic nature and their epic levels of awesomeness!


Do you also dislike "The World is Not Enough" and "You Know My Name" because David Arnold was "forced" to work with Garbage and Chris Cornell and the style of the theme songs aren't in more of a traditional vein? Or do you chiefly dislike not hearing the theme song match up with the musical themes in the film itself? If it's more of the latter, then "Live and Let Die" could be removed from my list above (of theme songs not written by the films' composers) due to it being featured strongly throughout the film and "The World is Not Enough" and "You Know My Name" would have to be exempt from any hate they might receive since the same case (of the songs being used throughout the films) applies regarding those scores.


...sorry if I'm derailing things, I'm just curious...

Edited by larrythefatcat, 13 May 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[The Shark]

So, essentially, you're just saying you completely want to rip your hair out whenever you hear "Live and Let Die", "Licence to Kill", "Goldeneye", "Tomorrow Never Dies", "Die Another Day" or "Another Way to Die" because they weren't written by those films' composers?... I'm sure NO ONE ELSE feels the EXACT SAME WAY regarding those last two or three. *sarcasm alert*

To be fair, since Sir George Martin arranged Macca's "Live and Let Die" for orchestra, he was able to integrate it into the score.

"The James Bond Theme" and "From Russia With Love" are the only other official Bond film theme songs not written by the films' composers... but I wouldn't count those anyway on account of their classic nature and their epic levels of awesomeness!

Again, John Barry arranged "From Russia With Love." Hence it strong presence in the underscore and main title. Regarding the Bond theme, I'm not going to get into another debate about who composed it, but despite the fact that Monty Norman won the court case, several portions of it (namely the introduction, swing section, chromatic 3 note vamp, and the climax) sound suspiciously like John Barry.

[larrythefatcat]

So, essentially, you're just saying you completely want to rip your hair out whenever you hear "Live and Let Die", "Licence to Kill", "Goldeneye", "Tomorrow Never Dies", "Die Another Day" or "Another Way to Die" because they weren't written by those films' composers?... I'm sure NO ONE ELSE feels the EXACT SAME WAY regarding those last two or three. *sarcasm alert*

To be fair, since Sir George Martin arranged Macca's "Live and Let Die" for orchestra, he was able to integrate it into the score.

"The James Bond Theme" and "From Russia With Love" are the only other official Bond film theme songs not written by the films' composers... but I wouldn't count those anyway on account of their classic nature and their epic levels of awesomeness!

Again, John Barry arranged "From Russia With Love." Hence it strong presence in the underscore and main title. Regarding the Bond theme, I'm not going to get into another debate about who composed it, but despite the fact that Monty Norman won the court case, several portions of it (namely the introduction, swing section, chromatic 3 note vamp, and the climax) sound suspiciously like John Barry.

Yes, I do believe that John Barry is the reason the James Bond theme is the way it is... it's possible Monty Norman previously wrote a song that had a similar tune, but John Barry fleshed it out and turned it into THE James Bond Theme!!! (heck yeah!)

The arrangement of LALD definitely appropriately folds it into the score (it helps that Martin and McCartney worked together so many times) whereas it looks like David Arnold never even ATTEMPTED to work with Madonna 'Die Another Day' (he seems to have been overly stubborn about 'Only Myself to Blame'... and it's a much better song to be certain) and it seems that both 'Tomorrow Never Dies' and 'Another Way to Die' may have been forced upon the soundtrack at the proverbial last minute.

I'm curious to find out whether or not John Barry actually had a hand in more than arranging FRWL. I guess it's a possibility that Bart was good enough that he came up with one of the most Bondian theme songs, but it's also entirely possible that John Barry had as much of an influence on that song as he did on "Monty Norman's" James Bond Theme.

Edited by larrythefatcat, 14 May 2012 - 12:38 AM.

[S K Y F A L L]

To many Felix and Blofeld recasts.

Connery in OHMSS would have been nice to see him ski.

I would have liked to see Caroline Bliss back as Moneypenny in GE

I wish CR wasn't a reboot but just another Bond film like TLD.

I still can't believe they moved the gun barrel to the end of QOS.

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

What winds me up is when the score composer is not allowed to write the theme song. This means that some mediocre pop star and their team get to force their (usually unsuitable) sound all over the title sequence, with the result that the melody won't be used throughout the rest of the film.

I can't believe that even John Barry was forced to co-write two theme songs with bands that were in favour at the time. Usually, the composer would collaborate with a lyricist, but Barry was told that Duran Duran had come up with a song and he had to help them finish it, whereas he was shoved into a room with a-ha and forced to collaborate. It was not a happy experience.

Although, to be fair, A View To A Kill and The Living Daylights are absolutely cracking songs.

So, essentially, you're just saying you completely want to rip your hair out whenever you hear "Live and Let Die", "Licence to Kill", "Goldeneye", "Tomorrow Never Dies", "Die Another Day" or "Another Way to Die" because they weren't written by those films' composers?... I'm sure NO ONE ELSE feels the EXACT SAME WAY regarding those last two or three. *sarcasm alert*

"The James Bond Theme" and "From Russia With Love" are the only other official Bond film theme songs not written by the films' composers... but I wouldn't count those anyway on account of their classic nature and their epic levels of awesomeness!


Do you also dislike "The World is Not Enough" and "You Know My Name" because David Arnold was "forced" to work with Garbage and Chris Cornell and the style of the theme songs aren't in more of a traditional vein? Or do you chiefly dislike not hearing the theme song match up with the musical themes in the film itself? If it's more of the latter, then "Live and Let Die" could be removed from my list above (of theme songs not written by the films' composers) due to it being featured strongly throughout the film and "The World is Not Enough" and "You Know My Name" would have to be exempt from any hate they might receive since the same case (of the songs being used throughout the films) applies regarding those scores.


...sorry if I'm derailing things, I'm just curious...

I don't hate any theme song which is not fully written by the composer. I just don't like it when he is completely shoved aside in favour of a separate team. I dislike this because the theme song will have no bearing on the rest of the film. What makes the older scores so great is that the theme song becomes a central musical motif throughout the whole score, giving the film its own feel and personality. When this doesn't happen (Die Another Day, Quantum Of Solace, Licence To Kill, etc.) the score is usually unfocused and tuneless.

Even when the composer has nothing to do with the theme song, it doesn't mean I automatically dislike the result. GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, Die Another Day and Another Way To Die are pretty good songs to varying degrees, but none of them are awesome. They're all a bit turgid, really. But that's just my opinion.

The bit about the composer being forced to collaborate was specifically about John Barry working with Duran Duran and a-ha. I know the results were great and he liked Duran Duran, but it seems disrespectful to me. When you have one of the leading film composers in the world on your team, you don't tell him he has to let some spotty youths meddle with his work!

David Arnold, to the best of my knowledge, chose Garbage and Chris Cornell as his collaborators.

Edited by Henry-Jones-Sr, 14 May 2012 - 09:58 AM.

[Golden Claw]

When people pronounce Connie's first name as "Seen". And I've met quite a few people who do so.

[AMC Hornet]

People who - whether they've seen OHMSS or not - dismiss Lazenby for having an Austrailian accent.

?

I replied to one such critic by saying, in my heaviest Mick Dundee voice, "g'day mate - m'names Bond, Jaymes Bond."

"Yeah, exactly," was his response.

Fine. Life's too short.