34 replies to this topic

[CasinoKiller]

By 'original' I mean the Bond of the first 20 films prior to the Casino Royale reboot. However much you can argue about continuity and the radically different portrayals, officially, the Bond in Dr. No and the Bond in Die Another Day were the same character.

I recently wondered if Bond would have retired after the events of Die Another Day...honestly, I think it was VERY likely.

Consider the facts-he's an agent whose been active for at least a couple of DECADES in-universe by the end of the Brosnan era (taking into account his Cold War era career AND his post-Cold War career under Judi Dench's M), so he was very likely in his late 40's, much like Brosnan himself was at the end of his tenure. Leaving aside the obvious issue of age, the very stress and strain of leading his life as a maverick secret agent constantly jet-setting around the world, shooting and getting shot at and physical confrontations against lethal opponents on a regular basis would obviously have taken its toll on him. That, combined with the fact that Bond's lifestyle was hardly healthy to begin (all those cigarettes and drinks!), makes it a miracle that he lasted so long in the service to begin with!

But the icing on the cake is DAD-Bond spends over a year in a North Korean prison camp, being tortured and poisoned, and in spite of that, manages to escape and go on ANOTHER high-stress mission immediately after! Honestly, by the end of DAD, Bond must by all rights be a near-total WRECK! (and then some!)

So I seriously wonder what happened in the old continuity after the events of DAD. Did Bond retire from active duty? And if so, what did he do next? Did he stay on in MI6 in a desk job, or at a senior position (ala Tanner or Robinson)? Or did he quit MI6 altogether and get another job as a private security consultant?

Or did he perhaps remain 007 until he was inevitably killed in action?

And if Bond retired from the field, and lived on, what was his personal life like? Did he remain a womanizer or did he end up in a steady relationship? Did he end up marrying again or would Tracy's death continue to haunt him?

[SecretAgentFan]

Continuity? In the Bond film franchise?

[jaguar007]

I don't give it much thought because I think the Bond of Craig and Brosnan are as much of the same character as the Bonds of Connery and Brosnan are.

[mttvolcano]

Ah, the different Bond theories eh. Makes it more complex and quite honestly bizarre. The Bonds are the same just different time periods, i'd rather leave it at that.

[Major Tallon]

He reached the mandatory retirement age (Moonraker, chapter 1), and he's currently enjoying his later years. See The Moneypenny Diaries: Final Fling.

[AMC Hornet]

Bond MK I tried to retire with Stacey Sutton but was so put off by her incredible vacuousness that he ran back to India and took up with Octopussy again, admitting that he should never have left her to return to the Service.

Bond MK II and Jinx split Graves' diamond stash. Jinx went back to the NSA and Bond retired to the Bahamas, where he lives next door to a cantankerous old Scottish millionare who occasionally demands that he write 5,000 words on "why you should stay the away from my door."

[Pussfeller]

I don't know the answer to this question, but it definitely involves a time-traveling Leonard Nimoy.

[Simon]

Change DAD for The Man with the Red Tattoo, and Casino Royale for Carte Blanche, and you have the literary equivalent of this question.

It's all a bit pointless, isn't it?

As far as I'm concerned, each actor and author is its own timeline. Mild references and in jokes aside, they are not connected - in my world.

[terminus]

A thread in the fanfic section came up with a possible answer to this question last year ---->




The traditional gunbarrel sequence opens up to the blackness of a tunnel. A huge train, the 'Glacier Express', emerges out of it towards us. We are in the vicinity of St. Moritz, Switzerland. On board the train, James Bond is in his private cabin. He opens up a briefcase to reveal a screen on which we see M's face. Via videolink chat, she gives Bond his orders. He is to assassinate and retrieve the laptop of rogue agent Viktor Krugman, who has been offering classified MI6 documents on the black market. M warns Bond that Krugman is a paranoid man who is likely to have security guards with him.

In the train corridor, a sommelier carries a bottle of wine and glass, with a bill reading 'James Bond, Cabin 6A'. With nobody in sight, the sommelier takes the glass and pours a couple of drops of an unknown fluid into it, then knocks on Bond's door. Bond opens the door and the sommelier enters and pours wine for Bond. Bond eyes him with suspicion, but still raises his glass as if to drink. Before the glass touches his lips, Bond speaks.

BOND: "I must say, you served with considerable expertise. Where did you get your training, Zurich or Geneva?"
SOMMELIER: "Geneva, sir.”
BOND: "Well that's interesting, as neither city offers sommelier training. And that tattoo you've tried to cover up on your neck. Siberian labor camp, I believe?"

Caught out, the sommelier attacks Bond with his corkscrew/knife. Bond fights back, and the two men spill into the corridor. Bond ends it by SMASHING the wine bottle on his head, just as an elderly couple open a door at the end of the corridor. They see Bond standing over the unconscious man, broken wine bottle in his hand. Bond looks at them, and at the bottle. With a shrug: "It was not a good year." Startled, the couple rush back out through the door.

Bond makes his way along the train, and is jumped by three porters in the luggage compartment. Bond drops his gun in the scuffle and fights with improvised weapons including ice skates, ski poles, and a snowboard, knocking the last porter out with a toboggan/sled.

Approaching the luxury car end of the train, Bond comes face to face with Krugman, who panics and turns, ordering his final two henchmen to kill Bond. Bond grapples with the first and attempts to throw him out of the train door. As they struggle, the second henchman shoves them BOTH out of the train door! Tumbling downwards, Bond manages to land on top of the other man, and the two of them skid down a steep slope to an icy road below. The henchman did not survive the landing, and it looks like Bond has failed his mission. As the train disappears out of sight, Bond is distracted by the put-put sound of an approaching motorbike. An American tourist gets off the bike in front of Bond.

TOURIST: “Say buddy, are you alright?"
BOND: "Yes, my friend and I made an unscheduled stop."
TOURIST: "Want me to take a look at him? I have medical training."

As the man bends down to look at the henchman, Bond steps out of the shot. We all know what's coming....

BOND: "Nice bike. Is that a rental?"
TOURIST: "Yeah, but hey mister, I think this guy's dead!"
BOND: "Your medical training is second to none."

Bond is on the motorbike and is already leaving! The engine ROARS over any profanity our American friend might have to offer.

The “James Bond Theme” KICKS IN as the motorbike speeds up in pursuit of the train. As he has almost caught it, he sees the road ahead ends! Veering off the road, Bond rides the bike up an embankment, and JUMPS it through the air, landing it perfectly straight on top of the train. Bond straightens his tie as he steps off the bike, and casually strolls along the train to the front. He nonchalantly waves at a farmer who watches him, mouth agape.

In Krugman's cabin, he and the final henchman break out a bottle of champagne as a knock on the door is heard. "Ah", says Krugman. "Must be the caviar.” The henchman answers the door and receives a FIST in the face. Krugman runs as Bond finishes off the henchman.

Bond catches up with Krugman in a panorama car and Krugman charges at him, wildly. The two men fight as the train passes over the Landwasser Viaduct. As the train lurches around a bend, Krugman grabs an emergency flare gun and is about to fire it, but Bond takes advantage of the sudden lurching by grabbing a handrail on the ceiling and kicking Krugman straight out of the window, sending him plunging to his death at the bottom of the viaduct. As Bond leaves the car, a conductor passes him, asking "What happened here?"

BOND: "Looks like someone went a bit off the rails."

Bond arrives back in Krugman's cabin, and retrieves the man's laptop. As he turns to leave, an attractive stewardess is at the door.

STEWARDESS: "Your caviar, Sir?" Bond ushers her in.
BOND: "Caviar's always best when it's shared, isn't it?" The stewardess blushes a little as Bond closes the door behind her.
STEWARDESS: "But I'm needed to serve lunch at the next stop!"
BOND: "And how long is it until the next stop?"
STEWARDESS: "Long enough...”

As their lips meet, we move outside and see the train zoom straight into a tunnel.

With that, we cut to a TITLE SEQUENCE designed by Daniel Kleinman featuring weather-related imagery--silhouettes of nude women with lightning projected on them projected onto raindrops, sparks of electricity and satellites, all to a powerful theme tune sung by Christina Aguilera.

MI6 Headquarters, London – The traditional establishing shot of the MI6 waterfront headquarters. Inside, Bond enters Moneypenny's office.

MONEYPENNY: “How was your ride on the train, James?”
BOND: “Some of the other passengers were a little rowdy, but I received some excellent service!”

Bond is then called into M’s office where he is introduced to Martijn Vuursteen, a meteorological expert. M explains that the laptop Bond recovered from Krugman contained some stolen files from the notorious Stormcaller project. Q and Vuursteen show Bond (on a hi tech interactive computer screen) that some unusual coordinates were referenced in the files, namely Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, and Saudi Arabia; "All notorious oil-producing areas of the world”, remarks Bond.

M is concerned enough to launch a covert investigation into Stormcaller and it's founder/creator Sir Laurence Goodhewe, and she demands Bond to be discreet about it. Bond is to start with the Stormcaller development center in Amsterdam.

Q hands over some gadgets, including a new phone with the ability to create false retinas, a knife that can be concealed in Bond's shoe, and a miniature holographic projector. Q demonstrates it by creating a 'false Bond' right in front of them, and Bond quips that Q can give the rest of his briefing to that one, as he takes his equipment and walks out of the door, leaving Q in a huff.

Amsterdam – Bond drives his Aston Martin DB7 along the canals, eventually arriving at the Stormcaller compound, at the Oosterschelde flood barrier (In true EON fashion, we will cheat a little bit by showing the barrier to be in or nearer to Amsterdam than it actually is!). He is greeted by Adelaide Springs, the stunningly beautiful chief research scientist on Stormcaller. She shows Bond around some key areas, including the Cloud Chamber where they are making their final fine-tuning in creating weather. She demonstrates it by instantly creating rain, inside the chamber as well as outdoors, and they discuss how Stormcaller will end famine in Africa, transform inhospitable Arctic locales, etc. Adelaide receives an urgent phone call and leaves Bond in her office to answer it. Just as she leaves, an alarm goes off.

Bond exits the office and hears passers-by talking about a bomb threat. He chases after Adelaide, but loses her in the crowd of employees fleeing the building. Rounding a corner, he sees Adelaide being dragged away by two men, Mr. Yaw and another henchman named Daaf. Bond gives chase. Yaw orders Daaf to stop Bond as they run through the cloud chamber, setting off an artificial storm. As Bond enters to see Yaw and Adelaide leaving through the other side, Daaf drops down on him, and the two men fight on the narrow walkway as thunder and lightning crash all around them. Bond throws him off the railing and Daaf plunges to his death through the clouds below, as Bond asks "Feeling a little under the weather?"

Leaving the building, Bond spots Yaw driving away, with Adelaide in the back. From somewhere in the distance, an unseen man is watching through binoculars. As Bond gets into the Aston Martin, this man activates a remote detonator. The building explodes as Bond speeds away from it.

Bond gives chase in the Aston Martin, pursuing them along the flood barrier as the fierce storm causes a torrential downpour. Bond rams into Yaw using a pit maneuver to force him to the edge. Bond pulls Adelaide to safety from the teetering car as Yaw jumps on him. The two men fall over the side into the water, trading punches in the crashing waves as the flood barrier machinery threatens to suck them both in. Just inches away from being crushed, Bond grabs a handhold as Yaw is sucked in by the hydraulics; the machine temporarily slows as it grinds on Yaw, allowing Bond to scramble back up on an emergency ladder. Adelaide is astonished.

ADELAIDE: "What happened to him?"
BOND: “We drifted apart.”

The two of them get into the Aston and leave. From a distance, we now get a look at the muscular, tattooed man watching them through binoculars. He is Maleko.

Later at a luxury suite at the Grand Hotel Krasnapolsky, Bond and Adelaide end up in bed together (possibly with a bad weather-related pun that I can't bear to come up with right now, "stiff breeze", etc.)

Bond and Adelaide arrive via boat to the home/office of Sir Laurence Goodhewe, which is on a small, man-made island in the middle Lake Geneva. Bond and Adelaide are taken up to Goodhewe’s office, which is an Infinity Room that stretches out from the building and is suspended over top of a large and extravagant fountain.

Goodhewe thanks Bond for bringing Adelaide back to him safely. She then leaves the two of them alone to talk. Goodhewe explains to Bond how the Stormcaller system works and goes into the noble enterprises that he hopes to undertake using the system. Using a large plasma display on the wall behind his desk to illustrate his point, he informs Bond that it is the height of hurricane season in the Gulf of Mexico, and that he hopes that his Stormcaller system can in some way help the region in this regard and to help protect the interests of the oil drilling enterprises that are currently located there. Bond pretends to be impressed, certain that Goodhewe is hiding something. As they’re talking, Adelaide interrupts their meeting to tell Goodhewe that there is something that needs his urgent attention.

Later that night, Bond has taken refuge in a small drinking establishment very close to the dock that takes people to and from Goodhewe’s home, waiting for Goodhewe. When Goodhewe arrives on the mainland, Bond follows him to a gentlemen’s club, where he meets with a man that Bond recognizes as Damian Falco. Knowing that Falco would recognize him, Bond hangs back, observing the meeting from afar. He then uses his cell phone to photograph Goodhewe and create a retina for future purposes.

After Goodhewe and Falco conclude their meeting, Bond spots a beautiful brunette talking up Falco at the bar. She looks familiar to Bond, although he can’t figure out why. Eventually, Falco and the woman leave together

Bond leaves the bar and heads to the docks, where he takes a small boat under the cover of darkness back to Goodhewe’s island. He finds a small boat tied to a tree some distance away from Goodhewe’s dock, signaling to him that there may be someone else sneaking onto the island.

Bond enters the residence and makes his way up to the Infinity Room. Using the retina he created with his cell phone, Bond gets past the scanner outside of Goodhewe’s office and begins searching through everything in the room trying to get some information on Goodhewe and the Stormcaller project. He finds what he’s looking for, which is a location for some kind of base of operations in Bangkok, and is on his way out of the Infinity Room when he’s attacked by a figure dressed entirely in black (with a black ski-mask covering their face). They fight, using various objects found in the office as weapons. After several minutes of fighting, the masked figure has Bond pinned to the ground as guards storm into the room. The masked figure looks up for a moment, giving Bond a chance to take a swing at the person with a sharp object. The object grazes the person, cutting into the ski mask on the person’s cheek. The person, in pain, punches Bond before getting up and running towards the far end of the Infinity Room as guards begin to advance on Bond. The person crashes through the windows of the infinity room, after which it’s revealed that the person’s all-black outfit is actually a very advanced wingsuit, which the person uses to glide out to the water.

Bond is left to fight off the guards, which he does. He makes his way back to his boat, seeing that more boats are approaching on the horizon. He speeds off in the other direction before finally making his way back to the mainland where he informs M of what he has found and then proceeds to Bangkok.

Bond's contact in Bangkok is Jack Wade - who meets Bond in an exotic sex-club where scantily clad, but tastefully dressed dancers gyrate around a pole to a brassy version of the film’s theme tune. Bond asks about the Sathorn Unique, an unfinished skyscraper in the city, the location of the mysterious meeting described in Goodhewe's files (it's the arms auction, not a secondary facility). Wade says that would explain the influx of figures from the arms world into the city. Bond asks for a favor from Wade - getting them both into the arms auction. Wade agrees, though points out that America can't be seen to be having their hand in such an event. He'll monitor proceedings from a remote safe house.

That night, the arms auction goes ahead on an unfinished floor of the skyscraper. Donning his usual see-through disguise, Bond claims to be David Somerset, representing a British arms firm. The auction begins, operated by a beautiful redheaded woman - and a handful of items are brought up, bought and the auction moves on. Bond has noticed Goodhewe in the audience of the auction, but hasn't been noticed himself, but the time comes and the Stormcaller comes up for bidding. A slideshow is presented by—Adelaide! The slideshow of the devices destructive abilities is shown, and a live demonstration is unveiled.

The clouds above India have been pre-seeded and the Stormcaller Network focuses its raw power into the clouds, causing it to torrentially rain down over the various cities, causing the Ganges to swell, cataclysmically breaking its banks and causing massive flooding. All within a few minutes, all overseen by a straight faced Adelaide. Bond is shocked, but then the bidding begins – and Goodhewe, just like the auction in “Octopussy”, artificially inflates the price of the weapons usage.

Bond begins to compete, but eventually the auction is won by a conglomerate of companies who have a very specific idea in mind. Bond goes up to congratulate them on their win, slipping the dagger out of his shoe and into one of their pockets so that when they pass through a metal detector into a secure area, it sets the detectors off, causing a commotion and letting Bond slip through.

Goodhewe and Adelaide meet with the buyers, alongside Damian Falco and Maleko. Falco has used money that he has siphoned from the NSA and invested it into Stormcaller; he expects a mass return on his investment. The buyers explains that they want Goodhewe to increase the size of the hurricanes that are currently threatening the gulf coast and decimate the oil fields, making their own rigs elsewhere a major supplier. Goodhewe agrees, and the money is transferred.

Bond realizes he is not the only person observing the meeting - the other is the woman he recognizes from the pub in Geneva, whom he realizes he also saw at Goodhewe's office on the island. He tries to get closer to her, but this causes him to get noticed, and this leads to a pursuit through the building site and a fight with Maleko on the uppermost finished floor. Bond almost plunges to his death, but he is rescued by the woman - and they escape together through the streets, then on a boat down the Chao Phraya, pursued by Maleko and thugs in another boat.

Eventually Bond and the woman escape and he takes her to the safe house where he meets with Wade, whom the woman greets as 'Uncle Jack'. The woman is NSA; she's been spying on Damian Falco because of his siphoning of funds and directing them towards the Stormcaller project, thus why she was at the office in Geneva and thus why she was speaking to Falco. He didn't know she was spying on him before, but he does now. Wade mentions something about that being the last favor he owes Bond - "Actually," says Bond, "I was wondering if you could do me another favor -" And we cut to Bond and Karina on a military plane, flying to Florida.

Somewhere over the Atlantic – On board the military plane, Bond contacts M and asks her to call for an immediate shutdown of the Stormcaller satellite. M cannot oblige, as the British Government has also invested heavily in the project; the Prime Minister has been on the front page of every newspaper praising it. She requires more evidence that it is being used for nefarious purposes before she can take action. Bond tells her she'll get it.

Florida – After landing at Fort Lauderdale Naval Air Station, Karina and Bond board the waiting NSA helicopter to survey the oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. Just off the coast, they come across one that isn't listed on the charts; as they approach, they see the Goodhewe insignia on the side just before machine gun fire strikes the chopper! There is no actual oil drilling equipment visible, just men raising a huge antenna - so the Stormcaller can target this precise location, notes Karina. Bond steers it around to head back the way they came, remarking "I think we just found our evidence!"

On board the oil rig, Maleko and three men get into a fanboat and pursue the chopper. Pursuing them to the coast, Maleko shoots the rear rotor blades with a sniper rifle; Bond does his best to bring the damaged vehicle down into The Everglades without crashing, landing it in a swampy clearing. Bond and Karina clamber out before the chopper sinks into the mire. We see Maleko watch them land, rifle in hand.

The Everglades – With no cell phone reception, Bond and Karina can do nothing but start walking. They reach a wooded area as the fanboat approaches; Maleko and three other men with rifles disembark and chase after them. With no weapons between them, Bond and Karina improvise, setting traps for the hunters. Bond ties some spiked branches back, using a vine as a tripwire. The first hunter stumbles into it and is impaled on the branches; as he shouts in agony, Maleko shoots him, mocking him for falling into such an obvious trap. Hunter #2 is dispatched by Bond covering a deep pit with branches and leaves; the hunter falls straight into it, where he is greeted by a nest of pygmy rattlesnakes. Maleko laughs at the hunter's fate, and remarks to the remaining hunter that he is starting to respect Bond as a worthy adversary. Maleko and Hunter #3 split up in an attempt to flank their prey. Karina uses a vine to swing from a tree and kick the Hunter straight into a marsh filled with alligators.

Elsewhere, Maleko spots Bond trying to hide, and approaches stealthily. He draws his koa, or shark-toothed dagger, and plunges it straight down - but it appears to go right THROUGH Bond! Maleko's confusion doesn't last long as Bond drops down from a tree right behind him, punching the huge man in the jaw. "Three's a crowd", remarks Bond. We now see that Bond had set up the holographic projector to create the illusion. Bond switches it off, and the two men struggle, knee-deep in a marsh; Maleko overpowers Bond and is about to finish him when Karina pops up behind him, hitting him with a huge, thick branch. Unfazed, Maleko grabs the branch from her and snaps it in half. As Bond gets up, he sees a massive Burmese python slithering towards them through the swamp; Bond charges straight into Maleko, knocking him into the water. The python is on him before he can get up; Bond and Karina climb out of the marsh to safe ground as the python wraps around Maleko, dragging him under the water.

"Now that's what I call a crushing defeat!”, notes Bond. The two of them double back to find Maleko's fanboat and head north. On board, Karina finds communiques from Falco, ordering Maleko to rendezvous at Naples airport once he has finished Bond. Bond charts a course heading to Naples...

Naples, Florida - Bond and Karina leave The Everglades by fanboat and arrive in the coastal town of Naples. Falco has secured a private airfield and Bond and Karina spy from the shadows, watching as two cargo planes are loaded with chemical tanks. Bond recognizes the chemical formulae marked on the sides, and concludes that they are cloud-seeding chemicals for increasing the potency of the impending Stormcaller strike. All of Falco's men are wearing HALO suits and gas masks, so Bond overpowers one of the goons who was heading to the bathroom and steals his uniform. As the planes are about to leave, Bond tells Karina to get out of there and contact M.

Bond joins the rest of the men and sneaks on board. Karina attempts to leave, but is spotted by guards. She fights off a couple, but is quickly surrounded. Falco asks her where Bond is; she replies he was killed by Maleko. Falco then knocks her out with the usual only-in-the-movies one punch and orders the guards to take her to Goodhewe. The rest of the men get on board and the two planes take off.

Bond and Falco are on the same plane; as the men go about their work, taking pressure readings, checking the chemicals etc, Bond pockets a hand grenade from a handy nearby crate. As he bends over, Falco notices his uniform is a little too small. Falco instantly draws his gun, and remarks "A little advice, Bond, next time you steal a guard's uniform, make sure it's not two sizes too small.”

Caught red-handed, Bond removes his mask. Falco orders the men to attach a line to Bond and dangle him out of the back until he either talks or dies. As the men prepare to open the hatch, Bond quickly hurls his grenade straight at the chemical tank. Men scatter in all directions as the tank blows; Bond opens up the back, holding on to a rail as guards spill out, the second cargo plane visible in the distance behind/below them. As the plane veers wildly and begins to climb, Bond and Falco grapple behind the ruptured tank. The tank topples over, heading straight for the both of them. Bond JUMPS out of the back of the plane, grabbing a spare cargo net as he goes; the tank slams straight into Falco.

Falling towards the second plane, Bond opens up the cargo net and uses his wingsuit to slow his descent; he times it just right so the cargo net catches onto the tail. Bond manages to pull himself to the side door and climb in, just as Falco falls straight towards him, slamming into the fuselage.

Inside the plane, Bond overpowers the only occupants, two pilots - they tell him their orders are to release the chemicals and then return the plane to a rendezvous in Puerto Rico. Bond ties them up and takes control of the plane.

Continuing to fly over Florida, Bond contacts Jack Wade for reinforcements. Landing in Puerto Rico, he picks up Wade and his team. Wade informs them that Goodhewe and his private security force have taken over the island's Fort San Felipe del Morro; they fly over the citadel, and Bond parachutes out with the team, dropping in to the fort grounds, surprising the guards.

A big team battle ensues in the style of “TSWLM”/ “YOLT”; Bond finds Karina and rescues her, but she warns him that Goodhewe is planning to use Stormcaller even without the chemicals; in its current state, the storm will obliterate the southern coast of the US, causing ten times the damage of Hurricane Katrina (are we in the correct year for that reference?)

As if on cue, thunder is heard and it starts to rain. Karina joins in the battle, providing cover for Bond who makes his way to Goodhewe's tower. Inside the tower :

Out of bullets, Bond finally reaches Goodhewe, seated at the center of his compound, but Goodhewe sits in his chair, with his two bodyguards at either side, snaps his fingers, and Mr. Wynn leaves his employer's side to fight with Bond; Bond finally overpowers Wynn with his shoe knife, only for Goodhewe to snap his fingers again – and Mr. Nihm leaves his side, only to meet the same fate, if in a rougher manner, as Wynn. Bond finally reaches Goodhewe, only for the villain to run up the stairs. Goodhewe runs to the top of the lighthouse (to be filmed at the San Juan Lighthouse), clutching his PDA which controls Stormcaller.

Bond chases him up several flights, to a balcony, where outside, Goodhewe's malfunctioning artificial storm is raging. Goodhewe grabs a pistol from a tower guard who was shot during the battle and points it at Bond.

GOODHEWE: "Stormcaller is happening, Bond. How do you think you can stop it?”

A huge clap of thunder startles Goodhewe, allowing Bond to grab him and knock the gun from his hand, over the edge. As a bolt of lightning descends from the sky, Bond grabs Goodhewe by the lapels and responds, "Let me enlighten you.” Bond shoves Goodhewe against a metal flagpole at the exact moment lightning hits it. Goodhewe is instantly electrocuted by the abnormally powerful strike.

Bond picks up the PDA and taps in a command. The storm and rain cease almost instantly. Downstairs, the rest of Goodhewe's guards are overcome. Karina appears at the top of the lighthouse and sees Goodhewe. "What happened to him?” Bond answers, "I stole his thunder.”

Later, Bond and Karina are in a luxury suite at the St. Regis beach resort. On video chat with M, she tells Bond that the Stormcaller satellite will be deactivated in a few hours. After hanging up, Karina is getting dressed; she tells Bond she wants to explore the island, and he's coming with her. Out of her sight, Bond takes out the Stormcaller PDA and taps a command into it. It instantly starts raining again outside.

BOND: "Oh, what bad luck. Looks like we'll have to stay indoors after all."
KARINA: “So what are we going to do here all day?”
BOND: “Well, every cloud has a silver lining...”

They kiss, as Bond tosses the PDA into a trashcan and we fade out to—

[larrythefatcat]

TL;DR x 27

I still subscribe to the idea that Bond is a Time Lord... problem solved.

Edited by larrythefatcat, 07 April 2012 - 01:48 AM.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Bond is Bond, I once believed in the multiple Bond theory too, but later came to my senses and told myself, that it's a never ending character.

[CasinoKiller]

I know that Bond is ONE character in the end, in spite of all the timeline issues...but the change from Brosnan to Craig was the first time a new continuity was explicitly established. Which was why I thought it would be fun to speculate what happened to the original Bond who was a 'relic of the Cold War', who saved the world about a dozen times, and who took on a wide variety of colorful foes ranging from Red Grant to Blofeld, to Mr. Big, to Franz Sanchez and finally Colonel Moon.

[SecretAgentFan]

Um, continuity? In the Bond film franchise?

[marktmurphy]

Bond MK II and Jinx split Graves' diamond stash. Jinx went back to the NSA and Bond retired to the Bahamas, where he lives next door to a cantankerous old Scottish millionare who occasionally demands that he write 5,000 words on "why you should stay the away from my door."

Yeah, I like the idea of him splitting the diamonds with Jnx: he knows that he's pushed it too far with M now and is getting on a bit, so he doesn't bother hanging around long in London. Moves to Jamaica but calls up Wai Lin and does a bit of private security work with her every now and then.

[larrythefatcat]

Alright, if we ignore the fact that Bond is, indeed, a Time Lord... we can just assume that Bond is an (almost) unaging individual whose advancement in age is only mentioned when it's decided the filmmakers want to make it a plot device or a plot point in their film OR when the actor has gotten so far along in years that the public makes it an issue. Bond doesn't ever get beyond the age of 45 (which is when 00's are forced to retire) unless the novelist or filmmaker once again wants to make it "a thing". Essentially the whole deal is that Bond is Bond even after all these years.

The only point (and result) of the "reboot" was to be able to make Casino Royale a little closer to its source material by making Bond a newer agent. I'm not saying that he was necessarily straight off of his two kills in the novel, but at least one of them was mentioned in the book... so I figure it couldn't have been too long before. The fact that Quantum of Solace was a direct sequel brought something new to the "reboot" era, but now that Skyfall is going to be unrelated to those two stories (I call Quantum a story quite loosely) and it seems as though we are going to once again have some familiar standby characters return, I think we can almost say that we're back to the same ol' Bond... except for little details like the whole being married and dealing with SPECTRE thing. I guess that stuff never happened now... or maybe yet.


...btw, I sure hope EON doesn't ever decide to remake any of the older movies... (even if they do a better job than NSNA and c'mon how could they NOT)

Edited by larrythefatcat, 07 April 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Safari Suit]

Turns out his liver really wasn't too good...

[Dustin]

Well, if Nolan should one day come to the franchise I suppose he'll introduce the Lazarus-Q-Pit and all our questions are answered once and for all...

[Bill]

Nice analysis, larrythefatcat.

As for remaking the old films, I think that would be a bit odd, but it is something I remember even Cubby discussing years ago. I don't think they will ever go near Thunderball in any way, though. They do not need another legal quagmire.

[CasinoKiller]

Alright, if we ignore the fact that Bond is, indeed, a Time Lord... we can just assume that Bond is an (almost) unaging individual whose advancement in age is only mentioned when it's decided the filmmakers want to make it a plot device or a plot point in their film OR when the actor has gotten so far along in years that the public makes it an issue. Bond doesn't ever get beyond the age of 45 (which is when 00's are forced to retire) unless the novelist or filmmaker once again wants to make it "a thing". Essentially the whole deal is that Bond is Bond even after all these years.

The only point (and result) of the "reboot" was to be able to make Casino Royale a little closer to its source material by making Bond a newer agent. I'm not saying that he was necessarily straight off of his two kills in the novel, but at least one of them was mentioned in the book... so I figure it couldn't have been too long before. The fact that Quantum of Solace was a direct sequel brought something new to the "reboot" era, but now that Skyfall is going to be unrelated to those two stories (I call Quantum a story quite loosely) and it seems as though we are going to once again have some familiar standby characters return, I think we can almost say that we're back to the same ol' Bond... except for little details like the whole being married and dealing with SPECTRE thing. I guess that stuff never happened now... or maybe yet.


...btw, I sure hope EON doesn't ever decide to remake any of the older movies... (even if they do a better job than NSNA and c'mon how could they NOT)

Actually, Bond didn't AT ALL come across as a 'newer agent' at any point in the Fleming novels...not even Casino Royale. On the contrary, Fleming presented Bond in CR as a veteran secret agent who earned his 00 number during WW2 and had already attained a near-legendary status within MI6.

Bond in the Fleming novels was perpetually in his mid-to-late thirties, a veteran agent with years of experience, but still very much in his prime. Details of Bond's backstory, and any chronological references vis a vi the same, were altered as the series progressed to keep Bond relatively young. (For e.g., in From Russia with Love, set in 1955, Bond is said to have joined the Secret Service in 1938...whereas You Only Live Twice, the penultimate novel set in 1962, reveals that Bond only joined the Service after the end of WW2).

To a great extent, the films have stuck to a similar principle on a much larger scale (sliding Bond's timeline forward by DECADES instead of years)...that said, with the Moore films, it required a HUGE suspension of disbelief to believe that Bond is anything less than middle-aged...and in Brosnan's case too, an attempt is made to make older, at least in terms of his belonging to a bygone era, if not in terms of sheer age.

[Pussfeller]

That's why I never understood the need to explicitly call CR a reboot. I always just assumed that every new actor implied a reboot.

[CasinoKiller]

That's why I never understood the need to explicitly call CR a reboot. I always just assumed that every new actor implied a reboot.

Not at all. In fact, back when Lazenby took over in OHMSS, EON went out of their way to drive home the point that he was playing the SAME Bond as Connery...with the opening credits featuring clips from the Connery films and Bond clearing out his desk at MI6 HQ, which was filled with mementos from past missions...

This trend continued, with references to Tracy's death in two Moore films and one Dalton film, tying both the Moore and Dalton Bond films with OHMSS and the Connery films by extension. And in Die Another Day of course, we had that scene with the gadgets from the old films in Q's lab.

The thing is, that until the Dalton era, it was possible to believe that we were following the same Bond with the same timeline. Moore's Bond looked visibly older than Connery's Bond (since the two actors were much the same age), so it could easily be interpreted as Bond naturally ageing over a twenty year period from Dr. No to A View to a Kill! It was with Dalton, that for the first time one either HAD to believe it was a 'reboot' of sorts, or that Bond is essentially ageless. And yet, LTK made a reference to OHMSS...

The way I see it, the Connery and Moore films are one timeline-that Bond was born around 1930 (Connery's birth year), probably served in the Royal Navy during the Korean War, joined the Service in the mid-to-late 1950's, and was active as an agent well into the mid-1980's. He's the Bond we saw in the films from Dr. No to AVTAK.

The Dalton and Brosnan films are the next 'timeline'-that Bond was born around 1953 (Brosnan's birth year-may as well keep him young!). He probably served in the Royal Navy during the 1979 Afghanistan war (since he seems familiar with Afghanistan in TLD), joined the service in the early 1980's, and was active as an agent till 2002, or possibly beyond! He's explicitly the Bond we saw in the films from TLD to Die Another Day, but in the years preceeding TLD, he experianced the events of Dr. No-AVTAK in some form (he certainly experianced OHMSS!)

However, this is just fan speculation-OFFICIALLY, the Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan Bonds are the same-which is why I refer to him/them as the 'original' Bond here!

[larrythefatcat]

Actually, Bond didn't AT ALL come across as a 'newer agent' at any point in the Fleming novels...not even Casino Royale. On the contrary, Fleming presented Bond in CR as a veteran secret agent who earned his 00 number during WW2 and had already attained a near-legendary status within MI6.

Bond in the Fleming novels was perpetually in his mid-to-late thirties, a veteran agent with years of experience, but still very much in his prime. Details of Bond's backstory, and any chronological references vis a vi the same, were altered as the series progressed to keep Bond relatively young. (For e.g., in From Russia with Love, set in 1955, Bond is said to have joined the Secret Service in 1938...whereas You Only Live Twice, the penultimate novel set in 1962, reveals that Bond only joined the Service after the end of WW2).

To a great extent, the films have stuck to a similar principle on a much larger scale (sliding Bond's timeline forward by DECADES instead of years)...that said, with the Moore films, it required a HUGE suspension of disbelief to believe that Bond is anything less than middle-aged...and in Brosnan's case too, an attempt is made to make older, at least in terms of his belonging to a bygone era, if not in terms of sheer age.

I said that it didn't appear he was fresh off of his two kills in the novel of Casino Royale but that he was "newer"... not necessarily a novice, by any means. I guess I was mostly referring to his age, for the most part.

That's why I never understood the need to explicitly call CR a reboot. I always just assumed that every new actor implied a reboot.

Not at all. In fact, back when Lazenby took over in OHMSS, EON went out of their way to drive home the point that he was playing the SAME Bond as Connery...with the opening credits featuring clips from the Connery films and Bond clearing out his desk at MI6 HQ, which was filled with mementos from past missions...

This trend continued, with references to Tracy's death in two Moore films and one Dalton film, tying both the Moore and Dalton Bond films with OHMSS and the Connery films by extension. And in Die Another Day of course, we had that scene with the gadgets from the old films in Q's lab.

The thing is, that until the Dalton era, it was possible to believe that we were following the same Bond with the same timeline. Moore's Bond looked visibly older than Connery's Bond (since the two actors were much the same age), so it could easily be interpreted as Bond naturally ageing over a twenty year period from Dr. No to A View to a Kill! It was with Dalton, that for the first time one either HAD to believe it was a 'reboot' of sorts, or that Bond is essentially ageless. And yet, LTK made a reference to OHMSS...

The way I see it, the Connery and Moore films are one timeline-that Bond was born around 1930 (Connery's birth year), probably served in the Royal Navy during the Korean War, joined the Service in the mid-to-late 1950's, and was active as an agent well into the mid-1980's. He's the Bond we saw in the films from Dr. No to AVTAK.

The Dalton and Brosnan films are the next 'timeline'-that Bond was born around 1953 (Brosnan's birth year-may as well keep him young!). He probably served in the Royal Navy during the 1979 Afghanistan war (since he seems familiar with Afghanistan in TLD), joined the service in the early 1980's, and was active as an agent till 2002, or possibly beyond! He's explicitly the Bond we saw in the films from TLD to Die Another Day, but in the years preceeding TLD, he experianced the events of Dr. No-AVTAK in some form (he certainly experianced OHMSS!)

However, this is just fan speculation-OFFICIALLY, the Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan Bonds are the same-which is why I refer to him/them as the 'original' Bond here!

I agree that Connery/Lazenby/Moore are all supposed to be roughly the same age. After all, Moore is actually older than Connery by a bit.

The only thing that destroys the idea that Lazenby is the same Bond is that incredibly stupid "This never happened to the other fella!" line... that was a bad call. Maybe it seemed fitting at the time, but looking back at it from about 43 years later it just sticks out like the king of sore thumbs.

Edited by larrythefatcat, 08 April 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[S K Y F A L L]

I'm hoping that Skyfall will return to the regular story line and that, the rebooted CR and QOS or just simply prequels/reboots. But to completely ignore Bonds past and previous accomplishments just seems like a saddening circumstance.

Maybe the Skyfall scenes, at I think what is called "Skyfall lodge," will explain it all.

[talos7]

^{I agree with the three timeline theory; with each one representing the same Bond.
#1 Connery,Lazenby and Moore.
#2 Dalton and Brosnan
#3 Craig...}

[CasinoKiller]

Actually, Bond didn't AT ALL come across as a 'newer agent' at any point in the Fleming novels...not even Casino Royale. On the contrary, Fleming presented Bond in CR as a veteran secret agent who earned his 00 number during WW2 and had already attained a near-legendary status within MI6.

Bond in the Fleming novels was perpetually in his mid-to-late thirties, a veteran agent with years of experience, but still very much in his prime. Details of Bond's backstory, and any chronological references vis a vi the same, were altered as the series progressed to keep Bond relatively young. (For e.g., in From Russia with Love, set in 1955, Bond is said to have joined the Secret Service in 1938...whereas You Only Live Twice, the penultimate novel set in 1962, reveals that Bond only joined the Service after the end of WW2).

To a great extent, the films have stuck to a similar principle on a much larger scale (sliding Bond's timeline forward by DECADES instead of years)...that said, with the Moore films, it required a HUGE suspension of disbelief to believe that Bond is anything less than middle-aged...and in Brosnan's case too, an attempt is made to make older, at least in terms of his belonging to a bygone era, if not in terms of sheer age.

I said that it didn't appear he was fresh off of his two kills in the novel of Casino Royale but that he was "newer"... not necessarily a novice, by any means. I guess I was mostly referring to his age, for the most part.

Well again, Fleming did give a lot of contradictory evidence, chronological and otherwise, with regards to Bond's pre-Casino Royale career.

In Casino Royale however, Bond is clearly far from a 'new' Double O, unlike the movie. He's already got quiet a rep within his organization and 007 is implied to be one of the best agents. Bond is mentioned as having been in the Service from shortly before WW2 (he went on another 'gambling mission' two months before the war broke out). The two kills which earned him his 00 number clearly took place during WW2...and in Live and Let Die, Bond mentions working in the US during the war (which ties in with the cipher clerk assassination) and in Jamaica shortly AFTER the war. So this suggests that as off Casino Royale (which is set in 1951), Bond has been with the service for well over a decade, and has been a 00 for a few years at least. This is corroborated by 'From Russia with Love', where Bond is said to have joined the service in 1938 (of course, the Russian dossier in that book also implied Bond became a 00 in 1950, but that may just be the year the Russians first became aware of his 00 status). Bond's birth year, is moreover, implied to be around 1916-17 in Moonraker (set in 1953 or 1954, and in which Bond is explicitly stated to be 37).

But then again, as time passed, Fleming altered details in Bond's backstory to make him younger (or rather, keep him the same age). Goldfinger for instance, has Bond reflecting on how he's been in the 00 Section for six years. Since Goldfinger was the seventh book (and thus likely set six years after Casino Royale), this would imply that Bond became a 00 shortly before Casino Royale, and that he was retroactively indeed a novice on that mission! Also, You Only Live Twice, reveals that Bond joined the Royal Navy at age 17, during WW2-in the year 1941 to be exact (putting his birth year as 1924), and that he only joined the service AFTER the war ended (directly contradicting the allusions to a wartime service career in CR and FRWL).

[AgentPB]

I think anyone's first mistake is to think that Fleming's Bond and the movie Bond are the same character. I would also venture that if forums were around when Dalton/Brosnan were taking the rule the same debate would have raged!

[larrythefatcat]

I think anyone's first mistake is to think that Fleming's Bond and the movie Bond are the same character. I would also venture that if forums were around when Dalton/Brosnan were taking the rule the same debate would have raged!

I do love Connery in the role, but I thank God that Dalton (not so successfully) and Craig have at least been in the GENERAL DIRECTION towards getting the Bond from the books and the films to be one in the same... if it it hadn't been for Cubby Broccoli and Roger Moore's love of slapstick, way-more-cheesy-than-Connery-could-ever-be-outside-of-Zardoz one-liners and terrible sight gags we'd probably have gotten a film closer to the books than we have thus far. So far I'd only consider Dr. No, From Russia With Love and OHMSS to be very close overall to the books... The Living Daylights and Casino Royale are very close behind.

I admit that Diamonds Are Forever was pretty outlandish and "bad", but not too long after Saltzman left things just got re-GD-diculous. I'm just hoping that Skyfall will be more in the vein of the early Connery films with the addition of a Bond who's roughly as rough-edged as the book Bond... but hopefully we won't get more of that shaky-cam Bourne crap. That just hurt my eyes... and my brain.

...what was this discussion about again?

Edited by larrythefatcat, 08 April 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[marktmurphy]

I think anyone's first mistake is to think that Fleming's Bond and the movie Bond are the same character. I would also venture that if forums were around when Dalton/Brosnan were taking the rule the same debate would have raged!

I do love Connery in the role, but I thank God that Dalton (not so successfully) and Craig have at least been in the GENERAL DIRECTION towards getting the Bond from the books and the films to be one in the same... if it it hadn't been for Cubby Broccoli and Roger Moore's love of slapstick, way-more-cheesy-than-Connery-could-ever-be-outside-of-Zardoz one-liners and terrible sight gags we'd probably have gotten a film closer to the books than we have thus far. So far I'd only consider Dr. No, From Russia With Love and OHMSS to be very close overall to the books... The Living Daylights and Casino Royale are very close behind.

Goldfinger and Thunderball are too. The books weren't exactly realistic either.

[Major Tallon]

I think anyone's first mistake is to think that Fleming's Bond and the movie Bond are the same character. I would also venture that if forums were around when Dalton/Brosnan were taking the rule the same debate would have raged!

Why is that a mistake? Obviously, time has moved on since Fleming wrote, and the plots of the origianal stories have either been used or passed by, but why shouldn't the character, professional attributes, and backstory of the guy that even the film credits describe as "Ian Fleming's James Bond 007" be an essential part of the film character? Based on Fleming and the Moneypenny Diaries, we know what happened to Bond in the years after he finished his last assignment from the Secret Service. Certainly, others are entitled to formulate theories of their own, but those theories, entertaining as they might be, are really just speculation that stands on the same plane as fan fiction. Anyone's entitled to do it, and I hope they have a good time in the process, but it's no mistake to point to the canonical answer.

[CasinoKiller]

I think anyone's first mistake is to think that Fleming's Bond and the movie Bond are the same character. I would also venture that if forums were around when Dalton/Brosnan were taking the rule the same debate would have raged!

I do love Connery in the role, but I thank God that Dalton (not so successfully) and Craig have at least been in the GENERAL DIRECTION towards getting the Bond from the books and the films to be one in the same... if it it hadn't been for Cubby Broccoli and Roger Moore's love of slapstick, way-more-cheesy-than-Connery-could-ever-be-outside-of-Zardoz one-liners and terrible sight gags we'd probably have gotten a film closer to the books than we have thus far. So far I'd only consider Dr. No, From Russia With Love and OHMSS to be very close overall to the books... The Living Daylights and Casino Royale are very close behind.

I admit that Diamonds Are Forever was pretty outlandish and "bad", but not too long after Saltzman left things just got re-GD-diculous. I'm just hoping that Skyfall will be more in the vein of the early Connery films with the addition of a Bond who's roughly as rough-edged as the book Bond... but hopefully we won't get more of that shaky-cam Bourne crap. That just hurt my eyes... and my brain.

...what was this discussion about again?

I think anyone's first mistake is to think that Fleming's Bond and the movie Bond are the same character. I would also venture that if forums were around when Dalton/Brosnan were taking the rule the same debate would have raged!

I do love Connery in the role, but I thank God that Dalton (not so successfully) and Craig have at least been in the GENERAL DIRECTION towards getting the Bond from the books and the films to be one in the same... if it it hadn't been for Cubby Broccoli and Roger Moore's love of slapstick, way-more-cheesy-than-Connery-could-ever-be-outside-of-Zardoz one-liners and terrible sight gags we'd probably have gotten a film closer to the books than we have thus far. So far I'd only consider Dr. No, From Russia With Love and OHMSS to be very close overall to the books... The Living Daylights and Casino Royale are very close behind.

I admit that Diamonds Are Forever was pretty outlandish and "bad", but not too long after Saltzman left things just got re-GD-diculous. I'm just hoping that Skyfall will be more in the vein of the early Connery films with the addition of a Bond who's roughly as rough-edged as the book Bond... but hopefully we won't get more of that shaky-cam Bourne crap. That just hurt my eyes... and my brain.

...what was this discussion about again?

Truth be told, I've always felt that while the Connery films (bar YOLT and DAF) were the closest to the source material, Connery's portrayal of Bond himself didn't exactly mirror the Fleming version of the character. Fleming's Bond was very much an ordinary man-sure, he was trained to be a part of the world of espionage and was prepared to kill when necessary, but he was a normal person and not a super-human killing machine; in fact, the physical and psychological stresses of his life did take its toll on him and he did do a fair bit of soul searching throughout the series. Connery however played Bond as being nigh-invincible; a cold and calculated machine. Connery's Bond certainly didn't look like he spent much time ruminating over the nature of his life and work; he just relentlessly went about his business without batting an eye. Not that I'm knocking Connery's portrayal at all-the kind of psychological depth Bond had in print was kind off difficult to translate to the screen, especially when the films were primarily intended to be thrillers. Moore arguably built upon Connery's portrayal of the invincible 'super-agent', albeit with a humorous touch which served him well in a lot of his other roles.

I think Dalton WAS the first one to give Bond some psychological depth. Bond was no longer the action hero who wandered around the world killing villains and bedding beautiful women-he was a hardened professional spy, but deep down inside, a man with conflicted views about his life and his actions. Brosnan too, despite the somewhat outlandish premises of some of his films, struck a kind of balance between the Connery/Moore ideal of the invincible hero and the Dalton rendition of a man torn between duty and his finer feelings.

Actually, in a sense, I feel Craig is a mix between Fleming's Bond and Connery's; except that he's Fleming's Bond updated for the 21st century. He does have the persona of the steely killing machine, like Connery did, but he's also a 'real man', conflicted about himself and his actions, much like Fleming's Bond or Dalton's Bond.