39 replies to this topic

[The Shark]

It's been exactly 40 years since we last had a gun barrel which used a pinhole camera to capture the moment in real time, with only the blood added afterwards. Ever since LIVE AND LET DIE, it's been done artificially. First hand drawn, then digitally when Kleinman took over the reigns.

Personally I prefer the way natural light bounces through the .38 calibre's aperture. It gives it a strange beauty, which I think worked best in DAF - where the light source rotates across the octagonal rifling, producing a rippling effect.

What do you think?

[Leon]

You know something, I have never actually considered that before. I think it's a brilliant idea, Shark. The technology now is incredible and they could capture an awesome shot down the middle of a real gun barrel. A Walther PPK would seem appropriate!

[The Shark]

Exactly. Just imagine Rodger Deakins's take on the gun barrel, with real light and gun smoke, and Daniel Kleinman's CG blood.

[Pussfeller]

I like the idea. I'd also like to see the blood a bit more natural-looking. Not that the concept of blood pouring down the front of a gunbarrel is in any way naturalistic, but the dribbling cherry-red liquid always reminds me of the raspberry jam in Spaceballs. How would people feel if, instead of a curtain of blood dripping down, there were a jagged splash of blood which abruptly covered the white circle?

Another gimmicky twist: After the shot, the image splits in two, as if the gunman's eyes have lost focus. The two ghostly images drift apart behind the screen of blood, and gradually fade to nothing.

[DaveBond21]

I like the idea. I'd also like to see the blood a bit more natural-looking. Not that the concept of blood pouring down the front of a gunbarrel is in any way naturalistic, but the dribbling cherry-red liquid always reminds me of the raspberry jam in Spaceballs. How would people feel if, instead of a curtain of blood dripping down, there were a jagged splash of blood which abruptly covered the white circle?

Another gimmicky twist: After the shot, the image splits in two, as if the gunman's eyes have lost focus. The two ghostly images drift apart behind the screen of blood, and gradually fade to nothing.

And then the gunman looks down and we see his eye-ball splatting on his shoe?

Seriously though, I don't mind what the gunbarrel looks like as long as it's the first thing we see.

[The Shark]

That's the stuff.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Exactly. Just imagine Rodger Deakins's take on the gun barrel, with real light and gun smoke, and Daniel Kleinman's CG blood.

I'm actually starting to like this a lot more now. Classic look with a slight modern touch.

[JimmyBond]

I knew Binder had initially filmed down a real barrel. But I had no idea he abandoned that technique once Moore was Bond.

Thanks Shark Learn something new everyday.

As for the question at hand, sure why not? It would definitely give the sequence a unique look (compared to what we're used to, at least).

[Shrublands]

It's been exactly 40 years since we last had a gun barrel which used a pinhole camera to capture the moment in real time, with only the blood added afterwards. Ever since LIVE AND LET DIE, it's been done artificially. First hand drawn, then digitally when Kleinman took over the reigns.

Personally I prefer the way natural light bounces through the .38 calibre's aperture. It gives it a strange beauty, which I think worked best in DAF - where the light source rotates across the octagonal rifling, producing a rippling effect.

What do you think?

The history of the thing is a bit more complicated than that.

The original inside of the gun barrel was indeed photographed using a long exposure and a pinhole camera. This created a still, the moving image of Bob Simons was filmed using a conventional movie camera, then masked into a circle. This moving image was superimposed onto the pinhole still of the gun barrel using a rostrum camera. The result was used on the first 3 films.

The DaF light effect was animated on during the rostrum stage. It’s a refinement of a similar notion first used on the OHMSS gun barrel.

Binder used versions of this method on all the Bond films he worked on.

It is quite impossible to use a pinhole camera (with the long exposure needed to photograph the inside of a gun barrel) in conjunction with a moving figure across a studio.
Blurred movement and an impossible depth of field would be only two of the technical problems you’d never solve.

[Aris007]

I concur! To be honest I'm a bit tired with those CGI gunbarrels. And the problem is that in every new film they become worse and worse. In QoS it was all shiny. I don't like that. I believe that it'll look tremendous if they can pull this off!

[occhile007]

I would really like the pinhole shot. As a matter of fact, I want them to do a recreation of the Dr. No intro but tailored to Daniel Craig. I want that crazy music at the beginning, bond shoots, the blood, the gun barrel shaking, and then the bond theme playing at full force.

[The Shark]

It's been exactly 40 years since we last had a gun barrel which used a pinhole camera to capture the moment in real time, with only the blood added afterwards. Ever since LIVE AND LET DIE, it's been done artificially. First hand drawn, then digitally when Kleinman took over the reigns.

Personally I prefer the way natural light bounces through the .38 calibre's aperture. It gives it a strange beauty, which I think worked best in DAF - where the light source rotates across the octagonal rifling, producing a rippling effect.

What do you think?

The history of the thing is a bit more complicated than that.

The original inside of the gun barrel was indeed photographed using a long exposure and a pinhole camera. This created a still, the moving image of Bob Simons was filmed using a conventional movie camera, then masked into a circle. This moving image was superimposed onto the pinhole still of the gun barrel using a rostrum camera. The result was used on the first 3 films.

The DaF light effect was animated on during the rostrum stage. It’s a refinement of a similar notion first used on the OHMSS gun barrel.

Binder used versions of this method on all the Bond films he worked on.

It is quite impossible to use a pinhole camera (with the long exposure needed to photograph the inside of a gun barrel) in conjunction with a moving figure across a studio.
Blurred movement and an impossible depth of field would be only two of the technical problems you’d never solve.

Thanks for the education.

I've got one question:

How was the light animation achieved with the rostrum set-up? Was it done through stop-motion? It's a pretty nifty effect.

I'm just thinking, you could also take the pinhole camera/long exposure idea use it for the nude girls of the title sequence. Hell maybe even double exposure and slit scan photography?

[Shrublands]

How was the light animation achieved with the rostrum set-up? Was it done through stop-motion? It's a pretty nifty effect.

I love it too, and think DaF the best.

It's like stop motion animation on separate film, frame by frame matched up on an optical printer or the rostrum.

By the way, the gun barrel was never ‘hand drawn’. The reason it looks less 3D after DaF, is because Binder uses increasingly heavy contrast black and white stock to reproduce the gun barrel still, this gives it a more graphic ‘flat’ look. He also stops using attempts to give the appearance of depth, i.e. the animated light change. By the time of TSWLM, it looks to me as if he’s using a lith film stock, such as Kodalith.

This sort of process shot, using a rostrum camera or optical printer, is largely a thing of the past with computer compositing.
They might consider (and I hope that they do) using an actual photographically captured moving gun barrel, fibre optics perhaps. Then computer compositing it with Craig shot in a studio. That could provide a slick, modern equivalent but with old-school photographic authenticity.

[Sigma7]

They must re shoot craigs gun barrel for QOS and not re use it , he walks like a keystone cop , and the whole gun barrel sequence looks speeded up, instead of smooth ,cool, and suave.

[Shrublands]

They must re shoot craigs gun barrel for QOS and not re use it , he walks like a keystone cop , and the whole gun barrel sequence looks speeded up

That’s because it was speeded-up for some reason – baffling I know, but Marc Forster was probably standing there with his stopwatch shouting, “No faster!!! Never mind what it looks like, it’s got to be like a bullet from a gun!!!”
Craig would undoubtedly move just fine in it, if it were shown at a normal speed. Everything gets that silent-movie-comedy-look when shown too fast.

[Mercator]

Yes, this has the good idea.
And maybe Bond wears a pinhole suit too instead of a smoking.
Of maybe he rolls over and fires - like he did before.
Of maybe he goes to the knee.
In any of events, bring beck the gunbarrel for to the front, please Danziel.

[The Shark]

A pinhole suit? Is that like a suit so small that you can fit through a pinhole?

[Mercator]

The mateiral, no?

[Pussfeller]

And maybe Bond wears a pinhole suit too instead of a smoking.

Filthy habit. I think he gave it up after LTK.

[The Shark]

The mateiral, no?

A suit made out of pinhole cameras?

[Mercator]

The mateiral, no?

A suit made out of pinhole cameras?

For to where from this is? Q Branch?

[The Shark]

The mateiral, no?

A suit made out of pinhole cameras?

For to where from this is? Q Branch?

From the direction of this conversation - Bedlam.

[Shrublands]

I blame Babel Fish.

[Pussfeller]

Who is your floor?

[Mr. Blofeld]

How are we sure this isn't Sean Connery, typing in from the elevator of an Amsterdam apartment building?

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

A TV spot for Adele's song showed the Skyfall barrel with the old (no CGI) design. Pity they haven't used it.

 

EDIT: Double post, sorry (Re: stupid iPod)

[The Shark]

Got it the first time round.

[Turn]

I'm not sure the current crew puts as much thought or care into the modern gunbarrels. I guess that's why they stick it at the end, almost treated as an afterthought.

 

It's one of those touches that makes a Bond movie a Bond movie.

 

One question as the DAF gunbarrel has been brought up: why is Connery in black and white when the previous TB and YOLT gunbarrels were in color?

[JimmyBond]

A TV spot for Adele's song showed the Skyfall barrel with the old (no CGI) design. Pity they haven't used it.

 

EDIT: Double post, sorry (Re: stupid iPod)

 

I closed the other thread for a reason. Take a hint.

[The Shark]

Bumping this since we're now on the long road to Bond 24.

 

I've been disappointed by every CGI gunbarrel we've had since '95. They've either been excessively shiny (like someone got carried away with a bottle of lube), cartoonish, had too many rivets, or were just plain ugly. I know that Maurice Binder's optical printing isn't coming back, but what about a digital fibre-optic camera like Shrublands suggested - coupled with the usual background plate of Craig walking and firing?

 

Right now the only way is up.