254 replies to this topic

[terminus]

This is something that I have mentioned to coco1997 in a few Private Messages over the course of the past few weeks - writing a full length Bond novel but, instead of posting it in chapters (or in total), it is posted at the equivalent of one A4 page of Font Size 11 (or 10 or 12) every day over the course of a year. This would be a massive undertaking for whomever writes it - whether myself or someone else (or a group of writers, each writing a week or a month before handing over the project to someone - theoretically each 'week' could be a chapter in that concept) - but it would be something that I think could proove to be fun, assuming people were willing to handle such a heavily serialised story.

So my question is - would people be interested in A) reading, contributing to or C) helping with the research required for such a project?

[Dustin]

Sounds like an extremely ambitious project. I wouldn't underestimate the difficulties in coming up with a publishable page of a story each day for a year, it's pretty hard work. In fact a lot like a daily strip in a newspaper. You may want to study those a bit before firing away. A good example are the Modesty Blaise strips, each single one with its own arc of suspense, yet they read remarkably fine in collected form; by far not every newspaper strip does.

You may also want to have some buffering of two or three weeks before you start your project, so that you can do some editing that may be necessary along the way. And you should already have an idea of the story's outline and extent of its parts, or you may not find out your way of certain scenes.

[007jamesbond]

I would like to help by doing researching portion, any idea how many you need to start writing the fan fiction? Need a basic plot idea and we start from there

[tdalton]

Sounds like an interesting project. I'd definitely be interested in reading it.

I agree with Dustin in offering the advice of having an outline done for the story before starting, so that everyone working on it has a framework from which to work within. I know that doing that has helped me with the project that I'm currently working on.

[terminus]

Sounds like an extremely ambitious project. I wouldn't underestimate the difficulties in coming up with a publishable page of a story each day for a year, it's pretty hard work. In fact a lot like a daily strip in a newspaper. You may want to study those a bit before firing away. A good example are the Modesty Blaise strips, each single one with its own arc of suspense, yet they read remarkably fine in collected form; by far not every newspaper strip does.

You may also want to have some buffering of two or three weeks before you start your project, so that you can do some editing that may be necessary along the way. And you should already have an idea of the story's outline and extent of its parts, or you may not find out your way of certain scenes.

Of course - I mentioned to coco1997 about the fact that a buffer would need to have been built up of at least a fortnight before writing had commenced.

Likewise, the story would need to be meticulously plotted and researched - with a fairly hefty outline with bulletpoints for each page, if not each chapter/week (if it's per page, the outline would be thirty pages long approximately).

I would like to help by doing researching portion, any idea how many you need to start writing the fan fiction? Need a basic plot idea and we start from there

We'll see how many offers we get and where we decide to go with the project. But yes - once we've got enough people onboard, it might be good to take it to private messages to construct the basic idea of the plot.

Sounds like an interesting project. I'd definitely be interested in reading it.

I agree with Dustin in offering the advice of having an outline done for the story before starting, so that everyone working on it has a framework from which to work within. I know that doing that has helped me with the project that I'm currently working on.

Glad to have you onboard as a reader if the project gains momentum.

[tdalton]

Any idea as to what the plot of the novel will be?

[terminus]

No real idea as yet - I'm thinking that, if it goes ahead, once we've assembled a 'staff', so to speak, we'll go into a group PM and we can build it up like we did with the Ultimate Bonds.

I would like it to be a globe trotting adventure, not something just set in one location, something in the present day possibly - not necessarily Project X or Craig Bond, but something along a similar concept, perhaps, updating the idea of Bond for the present day. But it could certainly be a Craig Bond project - although I'm dying to use Michael Fassbender as my visual model for Bond in a project.

[tdalton]

No real idea as yet - I'm thinking that, if it goes ahead, once we've assembled a 'staff', so to speak, we'll go into a group PM and we can build it up like we did with the Ultimate Bonds.

I would like it to be a globe trotting adventure, not something just set in one location, something in the present day possibly - not necessarily Project X or Craig Bond, but something along a similar concept, perhaps, updating the idea of Bond for the present day. But it could certainly be a Craig Bond project - although I'm dying to use Michael Fassbender as my visual model for Bond in a project.

Sounds good.

[coco1997]

I'm not much of a writer per se but I would love to help research and provide ideas for such a project.

[Righty007]

I'm not much of a writer per se...

After you sobered up, you helped write a pretty nice Activision press event summary with me last year.

[Captain Tightpants]

I can go into research mode. I could also do up some of the treatments. You say you want about 30 pages' worth to begin with; well, the initial treatments will be much shorter and grow as more detail is added.

[coco1997]

So what I've gathered so far, there are several different ideas for this project: a Craig Era story, a period piece (with Fassbender as Bond?), something in the universe of "Carte Blanche" or something new entirely.

What preference does everyone have?

[007jamesbond]

It should be set in the present day, and no specific Bond..Dont think it need to follow Carte Blanche....

[tdalton]

So what I've gathered so far, there are several different ideas for this project: a Craig Era story, a period piece (with Fassbender as Bond?), something in the universe of "Carte Blanche" or something new entirely.

What preference does everyone have?

I would think that it would probably be easier to do something that's not tied to any particular Bond (which would allow for more latitude for the writer(s) to make Bond their own), as well as something that is set in the present day, although I'm sure it will be an interesting read regardless of the direction taken.

[Aris007]

Sound really interesting. I'd love to contribute to a project like this. Of course I've gotta say I haven't tried my luck on writing but I find myself quite interested on writing something for quite sometime.

[chrisno1]

Forgive me, isn't this just a more complicated version of "Ultimate Bond" FanFic ?
While the premise is good and sounds quite fun, the logistics involved in this project, especially given it's time scale are huge.
I'm not sure you'll get a concensus on how the story will run. There was plenty of debate in Ultimate Bond and the result never totally satisfies everyone. Additionally the flow of the prose will be quite stacatto as different contributors are only writing one page. It will be very stop-start: where one author may be inclined to elaborate, another may wish to be more direct, etc.
Composite novels are a struggle. The only way I can see it working is for someone to write a brief draft, the next to elaborate (say write the opening chapter), the next to revise & go further perhaps writing the second chapter, the third person follows suite, etc etc. It would have to involve the outline being set from the get-go so everyone appreciates the full arc of the story.
The thriller writer Nicci French is a husband and wife team and they write in this fashion chapter by chapter.
Doing it by page seems mildly over-optimistic.
Good luck !

[Captain Tightpants]

Forgive me, isn't this just a more complicated version of "Ultimate Bond" FanFic ?

It's my understanding that, unlike Ultimate Bond, this story will actually be written.

[Dustin]

A thought: while I can see why a page a day sounds like a tempting project I'd advise you to make it a chapter a week. That still makes for short chapters, but offers the advantage that you get a lot more room for your story and can adapt to the story's needs much more easily. Modern industry design is based on 'form follows function' and this should also be the case with your piece.

With a-page-a-day you have to obey such a strict regimen of form that little actual function is left. I won't say it's impossible. But it calls for a lot more effort than you seem to be aware of at the moment. Take for example one of your favourite books. Chances are it was written with the intent that it will be read in a few solid chunks, maybe over a week or a couple of weeks; in very few cases it may be a doorstop the writer presented you with to keep you happy for a few months. But hardly any books are written to be read over a whole year, and in daily portions of a page on top of that. If that had been the case, if the form had been unnegotiable condition of the contract, then I think any writer would have come up with a vastly different book. Try it out with your favourite book, read it a page-per-day for a week. You will see how much of the original charm would dissolve there under your eyes. It may perhaps still be fun, but only because you already know the big picture. Many readers would perhaps give up long before the fun starts.

Consider a weekly frequency, maybe even with the odd week having a couple of very short chapters. Or give it a thought and go for a monthly entry. You could pick up Stephen King's 'Cycle of the Werewolf' and 'The Green Mile' which both also have a dimension in the way they were conceived (Werewolf) or originally published (Green Mile). In both there are parts where the plot was beefed-up or deliberatly slowed down to fit the way they were presented.

Edited by Dustin, 19 July 2011 - 10:13 AM.

[terminus]

I'm not much of a writer per se but I would love to help research and provide ideas for such a project.

I'm not much of a writer per se...

After you sobered up, you helped write a pretty nice Activision press event summary with me last year.

You've got to have a bit more faith in yourself.

I can go into research mode. I could also do up some of the treatments. You say you want about 30 pages' worth to begin with; well, the initial treatments will be much shorter and grow as more detail is added.

Yes - we probably want to look at a treatment about twice as long as the longer Ultimate Bond outlines, so about thirty pages, then we can construct the outline up as we do more research on locations and action sequences, flesh out character turning points and so on.

So what I've gathered so far, there are several different ideas for this project: a Craig Era story, a period piece (with Fassbender as Bond?), something in the universe of "Carte Blanche" or something new entirely.

What preference does everyone have?

It should be set in the present day, and no specific Bond..Dont think it need to follow Carte Blanche....

I would think that it would probably be easier to do something that's not tied to any particular Bond (which would allow for more latitude for the writer(s) to make Bond their own), as well as something that is set in the present day, although I'm sure it will be an interesting read regardless of the direction taken.

So, we're looking at a present day Bond unconnected to Project X or Craig Bond, but with the same background idea of updating the Bond world to the present day. That seems to be the general consensus.

Sound really interesting. I'd love to contribute to a project like this. Of course I've gotta say I haven't tried my luck on writing but I find myself quite interested on writing something for quite sometime.

You're welcome to lend a hand, if you feel out of your depth writing a section, then you could always team up with someone and co-write one?

Forgive me, isn't this just a more complicated version of "Ultimate Bond" FanFic ?
While the premise is good and sounds quite fun, the logistics involved in this project, especially given it's time scale are huge.
I'm not sure you'll get a concensus on how the story will run. There was plenty of debate in Ultimate Bond and the result never totally satisfies everyone. Additionally the flow of the prose will be quite stacatto as different contributors are only writing one page. It will be very stop-start: where one author may be inclined to elaborate, another may wish to be more direct, etc.
Composite novels are a struggle. The only way I can see it working is for someone to write a brief draft, the next to elaborate (say write the opening chapter), the next to revise & go further perhaps writing the second chapter, the third person follows suite, etc etc. It would have to involve the outline being set from the get-go so everyone appreciates the full arc of the story.
The thriller writer Nicci French is a husband and wife team and they write in this fashion chapter by chapter.
Doing it by page seems mildly over-optimistic.
Good luck !

Some very very good points, as always, chrisno. When I meant different contributors taking part, I didn't see them writing a single page, but perhaps seven pages - a weeks worth of installments of chapters, perhaps.

A thought: while I can see why a page a day sounds like a tempting project I'd advise you to make it a chapter a week. That still makes for short chapters, but offers the advantage that you get a lot more room for your story and can adapt to the story's needs much more easily. Modern industry design is based on 'form follows function' and this should also be the case with your piece.

With a-page-a-day you have to obey such a strict regimen of form that little actual function is left. I won't say it's impossible. But it calls for a lot more effort than you seem to be aware of at the moment. Take for example one of your favourite books. Chances are it was written with the intent that it will be read in a few solid chunks, maybe over a week or a couple of weeks; in very few cases it may be a doorstop the writer presented you with to keep you happy for a few months. But hardly any books are written to be read over a whole year, and in daily portions of a page on top of that. If that had been the case, if the form had been unnegotiable condition of the contract, then I think any writer would have come up with a vastly different book. Try it out with your favourite book, read it a page-per-day for a week. You will see how much of the original charm would dissolve there under your eyes. It may perhaps still be fun, but only because you already know the big picture. Many readers would perhaps give up long before the fun starts.

Consider a weekly frequency, maybe even with the odd week having a couple of very short chapters. Or give it a thought and go for a monthly entry. You could pick up Stephen King's 'Cycle of the Werewolf' and 'The Green Mile' which both also have a dimension in the way they were conceived (Werewolf) or originally published (Green Mile). In both there are parts where the plot was beefed-up or deliberatly slowed down to fit the way they were presented.

Do people think a weekly schedule might be bit more achievable and workable?

[007jamesbond]

so when should it start? would someone like to start a basic treatment? and go from there

[Captain Tightpants]

I have some ideas for what we can use - like the Ergenekon, a secret society in Turkey born out of the remains of Operation Gladio (the NATO stay-behind mission in Italy after World War II) that may or may not exist.

[terminus]

so when should it start? would someone like to start a basic treatment? and go from there

I have some ideas for what we can use - like the Ergenekon, a secret society in Turkey born out of the remains of Operation Gladio (the NATO stay-behind mission in Italy after World War II) that may or may not exist.

Well - no treatment for the forseeable future, to be honest. If we're reinventing Bond for the present day - the same concept that CB and CR both worked - then I think, for the moment, we need to talk about the characters and the world they inhabit. Who are Bond, M, Moneypenny, Q and Tanner - What is the Double-O Section and how does it operate?

It's not going to be like Ultimate Bond with people throwing out concepts and sticking them into fields in a proforma, it's going to need to feel and operate on a cohesive level. Although we achieved a cohesive story several times in Ultimate Bond, many of them came over as fairly disjointed - the victimn of someone saying 'Well, I want to use X in the story' without any concept behind how it would be utilised in the overall scheme.

We need a thorough understanding of this new Bond before we decide what story we would want to tell with him. The one thing I am putting on the table as concrete at the moment is that Michael Fassbender is to our Bond what Hoagy Carmichael was to Fleming Bond. If we need to have a visual description of him, it is to Fassbender we should turn for help. He's handsome without being too handsome, he has a cruel sort of face, a good physique without being that muscled monolith that Craig aspires to be.

So, I am about to go to work, but I leave you all with the big question at this stage of development - "Who Is CBn Bond?" - Does he smoke, does he drink, does he - even - take drugs, what sort of clothes should this man of the world wear in present day society, what does he think of his job, his country and the world stage at large.

[007jamesbond]

1. Bond should be Sean Connery...
2. Bond will only smoke sometimes when not on duty
3. He will continue to drink like fleming Bond did
4. The 00 section a black ops division of Mi6 but not connected official...like the CIA SAD
5. M is return to male and SIr Miles as we come to know and love
6. Moneypenny is Moneypenny...a few years older than Bond, in her mid 30s
7. Tanner is Tanner, a small role but a good friend of Bond
8. Bond wears suits
9. He use a walther p99 and a walther pkk
10. He drives a Aston Martin
11. Bond is loyal, for Queen and Country

[Captain Tightpants]

We need a thorough understanding of this new Bond before we decide what story we would want to tell with him.

I disagree. I think we need to have a general idea of the story first - and by that I mean the top level, a plot that can be summarised in no more than one sentence (for example "a secret project to relocate Soviet nuclear scientists after the Cold War before they offered their services to the highest bidder") - to go with our understanding of the character. Knowing the character is one thing; knowing how he will react in a given situation is another. And that's what I think we need in order to address the issues with the Ultimate Bonds: a direction. Because it would be easy to simply splurge out a dozen things that we think define Bond, none of which could have any relevance. Reading over 007jamesbond's post, I already disagree with half the things he says. For example, I don't think that M should be Sir Miles Messervy. Why? Because we already know that dynamic between Bond and M. It doesn't bring anything new to the mix. I'd much rather see a new character crafted, one with the potential for an interesting dynamic. We've already seen Bond and M have a tight relationship with Bernard Lee and Robert Brown. We've seen Bond and M have a maternal relationship with Judi Dench. But what about a younger M - and by that, I mean someone whose hair isn't entirely grey - who has a more fraternal relationship with Bond?

The point is that if we just list the things we think make up the character of Bond, we're not going to get anywhere. But by having a general idea of the plot - where Bond is fighting a secret society trying to carve out a new nation by starting a war, or investigating the Soviet nuclear scientest relocation project, or hunting down war criminals in deepest, drkest Africa; whatever - we will at least be moving in the same direction, even if we're constantly disagreeing with one another.

[007jamesbond]

I think we need to focus on the plot, which we need to do soon like Captain Tightpants...character development can done later, so who wants to write the first treatment?

I dont think we need to have SIr Miles but a younger M, who is a Admiral who is completely new and fresh for Bond boss..I think it easier to discuss on the plot than the characters which is more complicated

Edited by 007jamesbond, 21 July 2011 - 01:52 AM.

[Captain Tightpants]

It's too soon for a treatment. All that I think we need is an open-ended one-sentence statement of intent for the plot - the most generalised form of the story. For example, we can describe CASINO ROYALE as "Bond is sent to bankrupt a terrorist financier in a game of Texas Hold'em Poker". Or in the case of, say, THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, "Bond investigates an assassination ring targeting British spies". That's all we need: something that everyone can refer back to when discussing their understanding of Bond so that we're all moving in the same direction of this one. One we have that executive summary of the plot, we can start working outwards to the characters and then start the treatments.

[007jamesbond]

I guess first, the simple plot, do Bond investigate a murder? assassination? infiltrate a cell? We need have a vote,

[Captain Tightpants]

We can't have a vote without a discussion. But I suspect terminus has some idea of what he wants, so we'll leave it up to him for now.

[terminus]

I understand what you're both saying - and you provide some very valid points. But I think we need to understand who this new Bond is, albeit in broad strokes, before we can decide what sort of story we want to tell with him - we should be catering the story to his character, not, as you've tried to suggest in your well-worded response, CT, catering him to the story.

So, I ask again - Who is CBn Fanfic Project Bond?

Let's say he's in his early thirties, perhaps he was in the actual SBS/SAS/Royal Marines or even simply the Royal Navy, before he gets recruited to the Secret Service. Assuming we keep the fundamental foundation stone of his parents having been killed when he was younger, perhaps we could have him transplanted to live with his Aunt Charmian - not in Pett Bottom - but in the Middle East, making him a natural fit for the present day secret service with his fluency in Arabic and his grounded understanding of middle eastern culture. He's never been married, never been in a 'serious' relationship - he drinks, he doesn't smoke on a routine basis but can/will on a social/operational one, spends frequent hours in the gym to keep his fitness up (I'd imagine the physical requirements of the Double-Oh Section would be pretty extreme, their gym contract heavily subsidised).

You see what I mean - we're gaining an understanding of who this new Bond could be, but we're not pinning down anything too strongly and we're gaining an idea of what sort of story we might want to tell with the character.

Likewise, in the present day, perhaps M wouldn't be a retired Naval officer, perhaps he would be a younger more bureacratic man with little operational experience - more like the NSNA version of the character than either Dench or the older M's - he wouldn't be former military, he would probably be some well connected toff who's scored the best deskjob in the service through sheer obsequiousness, cunning and backstabbing.

[Captain Tightpants]

I still think we need a top-level summary of the plot so that we know where we're going with this. Otherwise, we're just going to go in every direction at once and we'll have to sift through it all.

But, for the sake of playing nice, here's a few ideas. I'll use the Myers-Briggs Typology Index to try and classify his personality.

- Bond is, curiously enough, both an E (extroverted) and an I (introverted) under the first dichotomy. His personality combines elements of both, so it's really a case of being either/or. He is action-oriented rather than thought-oriented (extroverted), but seeks a depth in knowledge rather than breadth (introverted). He prefers substantial interation with people rather than frequent interaction (introverted), yet gets his energy from spending time with people rather than alone (extroverted).
- When it comes to S (sensing) and N (intuition), Bond definately falls on the side of intuition. He is willing to trust his instincts, and will trust information that is abstract or theoretical. He can also take this information and use it to find a wider context or pattern.
- As for T (thinking) and F (feeling), Bond is clearly a thinker. He will detact himself from a situation, weighing his decision based on logic, reason, and what is most consistent with his knowledge.
- Finally, on the subject of J (judging) and P (perceiving), Bond judges, rather than perceives, the world around him. This means that he will settle on one answer quickly, and follow through on it, rather than leaving his options open, which he may believes would be indecisive.

With this in mind, Bond's four-letter Myers-Briggs code is either ENTJ or INTJ. I believe that while he combines elements of both intorversion and extroversion, extroversion is the dominant characteristis; therefore, Bond is an ENTJ. This is what Wikipedia has to say about ENTJs:

ENTJs focus on the most efficient and organized means of performing a task. This quality, along with their goal orientation, often makes ENTJs superior leaders, both realistic and visionary in implementing a long-term plan. ENTJs tend to be fiercely independent in their decision making, having a strong will that insulates them against external influence. Generally highly competent, ENTJs analyze and structure the world around them in a logical and rational way. Due to this straightforward way of thinking, ENTJs tend to have the greatest difficulty of all the types in applying subjective considerations and emotional values into the decision-making process.

ENTJs often excel in business and other areas that require systems analysis, original thinking, and an economically savvy mind. They are dynamic and pragmatic problem solvers. They tend to have a high degree of confidence in their own abilities, making them assertive and outspoken. In their dealings with others, they are generally outgoing, charismatic, fair-minded, and unaffected by conflict or criticism. However, these qualities can make ENTJs appear arrogant, insensitive, and confrontational. They can overwhelm others with their energy, intelligence, and desire to order the world according to their own vision. As a result, they may seem intimidating, hasty, and controlling.

ENTJs tend to cultivate their personal power. They often end up taking charge of a situation that seems (to their mind, at least) to be out of control, or that can otherwise be improved upon and strengthened. They strive to learn new things, which helps them become resourceful problem-solvers. However, since ENTJs rely on provable facts, they may find subjective issues pointless. ENTJs appear to take a tough approach to emotional or personal issues, and so can be viewed as aloof and insensitive. In situations requiring feeling and value judgments, ENTJs are well served to seek the advice of a trusted Feeling type.

When striving toward a goal, ENTJs often put personal needs aside until the work is done (and may expect others to do the same). For this reason, ENTJs may be considered self-sacrificing by some, but "cold and heartless" by others, especially those who prefer Feeling.

That, I think, is a fairly accurate representation of Bond. Furthermore, under David Kiersey's Kiersey Temperament Sorter, Bond takes on the role of Fieldmarshal:

Fieldmarshals are abstract, pragmatic, directive, and expressive. They tend to be highly skilled in situational organizing, directing their own actions and those of others. Their talent for contingency planning is a close second to their ability to coordinate, decide, and execute a strategy. Born engineers, they want to break an idea or concept into its most fundamental parts, subject those parts to intense scrutiny, and reassemble the idea before giving it their final approval. Their desire to ensure that an assessment is valid extends to their own work, and they will often seek the opinion of another trusted individual such as an Architect or an Inventor to refine their view of an issue, regardless of how sure they are.

Fieldmarshals have a strong desire to give structure and direction to groups of people. Of all the role variants, Fieldmarshals are the most likely to see where an organization is headed, and they want to communicate that vision to others. Thus they are more directive in their social exchanges than they are informative. Fieldmarshals often rise to positions of responsibility in work because they tend to be devoted to their jobs and are excellent administrators. Fieldmarshals may not actively seek out leadership responsibilities, but will often volunteer themselves to take charge in situations where leadership is absent or has failed, or where a power vacuum suddenly exists—not because they are particularly interested in power as such, but due to their innate desire to see a given system (be it social, political, workplace, or otherwise) continue to function until a suitable leader can be identified, who, in the mind of the Fieldmarshal, is as good at leadership as at background administration.

Fieldmarshals search more for goals and policy than they do for procedures and regulations. They strive to make their organization more efficient by reducing red tape, task redundancy, and confusion in the workplace. Fieldmarshals take a straightforward and tough-minded attitude toward tasks, approaching them with impartial analysis, and basing their decisions on well thought-out plans, impersonal data, and overall probability of success. They expect others to follow their vision, and they are willing to remove stumbling blocks that prevent a given system (human or otherwise) from being fully productive. For Fieldmarshals, there must be a goal-directed reason for executing any plan. People’s emotions are generally considered secondary to raw data in any decision-making process.

Fieldmarshals are impatient with ineffectiveness, inefficiency, and the repetition of error. If an established procedure can be demonstrated to be ineffective at accomplishing a certain goal, they will abandon the procedure. Fieldmarshals keep long-term and short-term objectives in mind while striving to turn their organizations into smooth-functioning, empirically stable systems.

And that's the angle I think Bond should come from.