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BOND & Blofeld in OHMSS


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#1 Messervy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:28 AM

Don't know if this has been mentioned before.
I just re-watched OHMSS yesterday, and like everytime I see it I'm still puzzled by the fact that Bond goes "undercover" to Piz Gloria and meets Blofeld without the 2 of them recognizing each other. Yet Bond and Blofeld did meet in previous movies. So why is it Blofeld doesn't recognise Bond (even "hidden" by his glasses, a la Superman!)?

#2 OHMSS Spion

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:43 AM

Don't know if this has been mentioned before.
I just re-watched OHMSS yesterday, and like everytime I see it I'm still puzzled by the fact that Bond goes "undercover" to Piz Gloria and meets Blofeld without the 2 of them recognizing each other. Yet Bond and Blofeld did meet in previous movies. So why is it Blofeld doesn't recognise Bond (even "hidden" by his glasses, a la Superman!)?


From what I've read, the producers recognized this fact and were originally going to have it explained that Bond had plastic surgery, but dropped the idea so as to not focus on the change in actor. In the novels, YOLT comes after OHMSS, and OHMSS is when Blofeld and Bond have their first face to face. As the director wanted to follow the novel of OHMSS pretty closely, they just overlooked the fact that Bond and Blofeld had met in the film YOLT. THey don't really give a real explanation why Blofeld doesn't recognize Bond.

#3 Gothamite

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:16 AM

Read my signature for my favourite explanation.

It's an exercise in pointlessness trying to link most of the Bond film-eras together (even when they directly succeed a film from another era), I think.

I prefer to think YOLT and DAF belong in their own silly continuity and OHMSS is left as its own perfect diamond in the rough.

#4 DaveBond21

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 03:23 AM

Yes, this has been debated quite a lot. Peter Hunt, the director, did indeed want to follow the novel of OHMSS as closely as possible and they just overlooked the fact that Bond and Blofeld had met in the film YOLT.

It's the same thing with DAF which ignores the events of OHMSS and takes us straight back to Japan as if YOLT had only just finished. No mention of Tracy.


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#5 the other fellow

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:41 PM

Bond knows its Blofeld..that's why he's there....though he doesn't physically recognise him because Blofeld always has plastic surgery.
Blofeld does recognise Bond(or a least thinks he does)...but better to say nothing until the girls are well off the mountain and initiating his scheme.

It's all a game.

Anyway...that's my take on it....please yourself.

#6 David_M

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:12 PM

Blofeld's grown a foot and put on nearly 50 pounds of muscle weight, not to mention losing that huge scar. That and the fact that Lazenby rarely makes eye contact with men anyway because he's always looking for girls accounts for Blofeld's successful camouflage.

As for Bond, well he is wearing glasses. It's a well known fact that a big strong hero can pass for a milksop if he just wears glasses. You know, like that guy with the cape.

Ironically, Telly looks just like Lex Luthor in this film, especially in the white lab coat.

#7 The Shark

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:50 PM

Just imagine YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE never happened.

#8 David_M

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:17 PM

Just imagine YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE never happened.


In that case, TSWLM wins for Best Original Screenplay!

#9 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 06:06 PM

Just imagine YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE never happened.


In that case, TSWLM wins for Best Original Screenplay!

If you imagine Dr. No never happened, so does YOLT, in turn... :P

#10 Guy Haines

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:20 AM

Blofeld's grown a foot and put on nearly 50 pounds of muscle weight, not to mention losing that huge scar. That and the fact that Lazenby rarely makes eye contact with men anyway because he's always looking for girls accounts for Blofeld's successful camouflage.

As for Bond, well he is wearing glasses. It's a well known fact that a big strong hero can pass for a milksop if he just wears glasses. You know, like that guy with the cape.

Ironically, Telly looks just like Lex Luthor in this film, especially in the white lab coat.

I don't suppose they realised this, but in casting an actor who differed in appearance from the previous Blofeld, they were only, if inadvertently, following what Fleming did with the character in the books. Consider - in Thunderball, Blofeld was described as "big, very big", a man of muscle gone to fat. By OHMSS he was slimline, aristocratic in appearance with a syphillitic nose. But by You Only Live Twice he was an armour plated lunatic with a drooping moustache and a preference for playing Richard Wagner, loudly. Blofeld was always a chameleon. As for Blofeld's failure to spot Bond in the film OHMSS, he was temporarily taken in by a few props, Bond's "bluffers guide" to genealogy (we offer a course in genealogy at the college I teach at - Bond should have enrolled. We could have told him where Blofeld's ancestors were buried, and sorted out the balls from the beasants ;) .)

All that, and Bond's uncanny ability to impersonate that distinguished actor, George Baker. :)

#11 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:16 AM


Blofeld's grown a foot and put on nearly 50 pounds of muscle weight, not to mention losing that huge scar. That and the fact that Lazenby rarely makes eye contact with men anyway because he's always looking for girls accounts for Blofeld's successful camouflage.

As for Bond, well he is wearing glasses. It's a well known fact that a big strong hero can pass for a milksop if he just wears glasses. You know, like that guy with the cape.

Ironically, Telly looks just like Lex Luthor in this film, especially in the white lab coat.

I don't suppose they realised this, but in casting an actor who differed in appearance from the previous Blofeld, they were only, if inadvertently, following what Fleming did with the character in the books. Consider - in Thunderball, Blofeld was described as "big, very big", a man of muscle gone to fat. By OHMSS he was slimline, aristocratic in appearance with a syphillitic nose. But by You Only Live Twice he was an armour plated lunatic with a drooping moustache and a preference for playing Richard Wagner, loudly. Blofeld was always a chameleon. As for Blofeld's failure to spot Bond in the film OHMSS, he was temporarily taken in by a few props, Bond's "bluffers guide" to genealogy (we offer a course in genealogy at the college I teach at - Bond should have enrolled. We could have told him where Blofeld's ancestors were buried, and sorted out the balls from the beasants ;) .)

All that, and Bond's uncanny ability to impersonate that distinguished actor, George Baker. :)

Actually, I blame the kilt. No way Blofeld could believe that the super-masculine 007 would ever wear a skirt--undercover or otherwise. :D

#12 hoagy

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:39 PM

I always thought that the pre-titles sequence of DAF was Bond seeking revenger for Blofeld killing Tracy in OHMSS...although it also works as Bond following up the YOLT mission, since Blofeld escaped at the end of YOLT. Of course, for a guy who's been on a personal hunt and finally -- or so he thought -- killed the man who killed his beloved Tracy, Bond does not mourn for long...but hey, he's not about to become a monk now, is he ?
For further support of the acknowleding-the-OHMSS-ending theory, please recall M chides Bond for what Bond's been up to for a couple years, and suggest it's time for Bond to get back to some real work...before they have the Goldfinger-homage private dinner in the sumptuously British room with the fellow who's an expert on rare and valuable items, this time - diamonds.
So -- I certainly agree OHMSS lives in its own universe, wherein Bond and Blofeld had not yet met in person. But the beginning of DAF could be understood either way, I think.

#13 lazenbyland

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:49 PM

I agree that this doesn't bear close analysis, but remember that Bond and Blofeld had met in the novel OHMSS, and then met again in the novel YOLT without Blofeld immediately recognizing him though he was disguised as a japanese and it was Irma Bunt who recognized him with Blofeld still unconvinced.

And the novels are full of absurdities. In the novel Goldfinger, Fort Knox is actually robbed, but the impossibility of this is corrected for the film version.

#14 robdread

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:37 PM

I always thought that the pre-titles sequence of DAF was Bond seeking revenger for Blofeld killing Tracy in OHMSS...although it also works as Bond following up the YOLT mission, since Blofeld escaped at the end of YOLT. Of course, for a guy who's been on a personal hunt and finally -- or so he thought -- killed the man who killed his beloved Tracy, Bond does not mourn for long...but hey, he's not about to become a monk now, is he ?
For further support of the acknowleding-the-OHMSS-ending theory, please recall M chides Bond for what Bond's been up to for a couple years, and suggest it's time for Bond to get back to some real work...before they have the Goldfinger-homage private dinner in the sumptuously British room with the fellow who's an expert on rare and valuable items, this time - diamonds.
So -- I certainly agree OHMSS lives in its own universe, wherein Bond and Blofeld had not yet met in person. But the beginning of DAF could be understood either way, I think.

But he does mourn and he remembers. The visiting of her grave in "For Your Eyes Only;" his discomfort and defensiveness at the reference of the marriage in "The Spy Who Loved Me" and "Licence to Kill."

#15 QuantumOfRoyale

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:28 PM

Bond knows its Blofeld..that's why he's there....though he doesn't physically recognise him because Blofeld always has plastic surgery.
Blofeld does recognise Bond(or a least thinks he does)...but better to say nothing until the girls are well off the mountain and initiating his scheme.

It's all a game.

Anyway...that's my take on it....please yourself.


This.

#16 Revelator

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

Ironically, Telly looks just like Lex Luthor in this film, especially in the white lab coat.


Even more fittingly, the design of Lex Luthor used in Superman: The Animated Series was inspired by Telly Savalas's Blofeld. The show's producer/designer Bruce Timm is a big James Bond fan.

#17 THX-007

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:22 AM

Ironically, Telly looks just like Lex Luthor in this film, especially in the white lab coat.


Even more fittingly, the design of Lex Luthor used in Superman: The Animated Series was inspired by Telly Savalas's Blofeld. The show's producer/designer Bruce Timm is a big James Bond fan.

So weird you brought that up since I just saw this interview with Bruce Timm along with Kevin Conroy and Andrea Romano

Another Bond connection is that the voice of Lex Luthor was provided by Clancy Brown who famously co-starred alongside Connery and Christopher Lambert in "Highlander"

#18 Gothamite

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

This whole topic is really frustrating, as OHMSS and Tracy's death is always used as the benchmark argument AGAINST The Codename Theory, and yet it could just as easily be used as one of the foremost proponents of it:

- "This never happened to the other fella"

- Bond and Blofeld not recognising each other

- LazBond leaving the service and Mi6 begging "The other fella" to return one last time.

I don't personally recognise this, but it could be argued by the people who like the Codename Theory.

#19 R. Dittmar

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

This whole topic is really frustrating, as OHMSS and Tracy's death is always used as the benchmark argument AGAINST The Codename Theory, and yet it could just as easily be used as one of the foremost proponents of it:



Tracy has really come to serve as kind of a secret code between the filmmakers and longtime Bond fans. Whenever the filmmakers really s***w the pooch and turn out something so over-the-top and ridiculous that it can barely be defended, they throw in a reference to Tracy in a subsequent movie so as to say "We know we really goofed up and we're trying to be serious again." Even in Brosnan's only "trying to be serious" movie, TWINE, they threw in a lot of indirect references to OHMSS that must have been intentional yet surely have gone over the head of anyone not a longtime fan of the series.

The exception to this that proves the rule is "Casino Royale". There the filmmakers were saying "We have so horrendously embarrassed ourselves that there’s nothing to do other than completely start over.”

Edited by R. Dittmar, 06 November 2012 - 05:25 PM.


#20 starschwar

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:00 PM

I was thinking about this the other night, and a new possibility occured to me. Instead of that silly codename theory, how about the other side of the coin? In DAF, we're shown that Bofeld has perfect duplicates of himself for the purposes of confusing and evading enemy operatives. Who's to say that the Blofeld Bond encountered in OHMSS is indeed the same man he met in YOLT? This would explain why this Blofeld didn't recognize Bond. In my mind the scenario plays out like this:

Blofeld - the original Blofeld - founds SPECTRE. He serves as their Number One for many years. This Blofeld is the one seen in FRWL, Thunderball, and YOLT. His ultimate goal is wold domination. He alters his appearance from time to time to help avoid identification. He eventually takes this to the extreme of training and surgically altering perfect duplicates. These are, for the most part, well paid lackeys that are content in living the high life of SPCTRE leadership without having any real responsibilities other than parroting the real one's directives. That is, until the events of YOLT and the subsequent hunt for Blofeld, Operation Bedlam.

One of the duplicates - we'll call him Blofeld-B for simplicity - is craftier than the rest. While the original Blofeld is in hiding (and seeking out hair replacement), this one assumes his identity, and uses the remaining SPECTRE resources at his disposal to set up shop in Piz Gloria. Of course, this one isn't interested in world domination. Being targeted for capture or assasination by the western intelligence agencies is more than he bargained for. That's why his goal is amnesty. He wants out - the convenient life of a count and a clean slate. Surely he'd been briefed about James Bond as a major SPECTRE adversary, but had never met him face to face and was unaware of his appearance. That's why he needed to rely on the holes in his Hilary Bray cover to identify him. OHMSS plays out as we all know.

The Blofeld in DAF - at least, the main one who impersonates Willard Whyte - is the original Blofeld. This man would never dream of retirement - not when there's death satellite ransoms to collect! Cue anticlimactic sub crane death.

Fast forward to FYEO. We've got a wheelchair-bound bald Blofeld in a neck brace. This is Blofeld-B. He never recovered from his neck injuries sustained in the bobsled chase. Dissapointed with Irma Bunt's marksmanship, he's spent the last decade or so trying to get revenge on Bond. Again, unlike his world-ransoming counterpart, this one is more interested in personal matters. If he couldn't have his freedom, he'd get his revenge.

Now, this is all silly conjecture on my part - there's no way the writers intended things to be interpreted this way. But it's a convenient enough way to reconcile Blofeld's inability to identify Bond, as well as the two onscreen deaths of the same character.

#21 stamper

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:24 PM

When watching / discovering all Bonds in order, and coming to OHMSS, my daughter said "that's not 007. 007 is Sean Connery. He must be 008. Why do they call him 007?" LOL

#22 Major Tallon

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:38 PM

When watching / discovering all Bonds in order, and coming to OHMSS, my daughter said "that's not 007. 007 is Sean Connery. He must be 008. Why do they call him 007?" LOL

I once watched OHMSS in a double feature with DAF. The audience, primarily university students who should have known better, had the exact same reaction to Lazenby's introduction -- an audible "No he isn't."

#23 Miles Miservy

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

Though QOS is the only film to be a genuine sequel to CR, every other Bond movie (mission, if you will) is meant to stand on its own, in no particular order. there ARE, of course exceptions to this rule; Kronsteen mentions revenge for the death of Dr. No in FRWL. Tracy's death in OHMSS is mentioned in TSWLM as well as LTK. I even seem to remember M discussing with Draco,what appears to sound like Bond's Goldfinger mission in at the end of Secret Service.

That being said, there IS a bit of a cinematic connection between OHMSS & DAF. George's line just before the title sequence is an absolute ice-breaker. There are a couple in DAF that are a little more subtle:

In M's briefing, Sir Donald Munger asks Bond, "You were on holiday, I understand. Relaxing, I hope."
When Bond replies, "Hardly relaxing but most satisfying.", I was always under the impression he was talking about the pre-title sequence, where he was traveling the world, looking for Blofeld & finally killing him. What he was REALLY referring to were the 5 films he made SINCE YOLT and the grossly obscene fee and 3-picture deal he received ro resume the role of OO7.

The other nod to OHMSS is so slight, you almost miss it. When Moneypenny tells him that Mr. Franks' papers were well in order, he asks her if there's anything he can bring her back from Holland. She suggests a diamond... in a ring. The look of pain on Bond's face is so blatant, and genuine that only Connery could have pulled it off.

...and then it's gone a second later.

...or it could be that Bond & Blofeld were playing their usual cat & mouse game that started with Dr. No.

#24 stamper

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:11 PM

OHMSS aired on TV recently, I read on boards people thinking it was an OSS 117 movie LOL

#25 George Kaplan

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

I was thinking about this the other night, and a new possibility occured to me. Instead of that silly codename theory, how about the other side of the coin? In DAF, we're shown that Bofeld has perfect duplicates of himself for the purposes of confusing and evading enemy operatives. Who's to say that the Blofeld Bond encountered in OHMSS is indeed the same man he met in YOLT? This would explain why this Blofeld didn't recognize Bond. In my mind the scenario plays out like this:

Blofeld - the original Blofeld - founds SPECTRE. He serves as their Number One for many years. This Blofeld is the one seen in FRWL, Thunderball, and YOLT. His ultimate goal is wold domination. He alters his appearance from time to time to help avoid identification. He eventually takes this to the extreme of training and surgically altering perfect duplicates. These are, for the most part, well paid lackeys that are content in living the high life of SPCTRE leadership without having any real responsibilities other than parroting the real one's directives. That is, until the events of YOLT and the subsequent hunt for Blofeld, Operation Bedlam.

One of the duplicates - we'll call him Blofeld-B for simplicity - is craftier than the rest. While the original Blofeld is in hiding (and seeking out hair replacement), this one assumes his identity, and uses the remaining SPECTRE resources at his disposal to set up shop in Piz Gloria. Of course, this one isn't interested in world domination. Being targeted for capture or assasination by the western intelligence agencies is more than he bargained for. That's why his goal is amnesty. He wants out - the convenient life of a count and a clean slate. Surely he'd been briefed about James Bond as a major SPECTRE adversary, but had never met him face to face and was unaware of his appearance. That's why he needed to rely on the holes in his Hilary Bray cover to identify him. OHMSS plays out as we all know.

The Blofeld in DAF - at least, the main one who impersonates Willard Whyte - is the original Blofeld. This man would never dream of retirement - not when there's death satellite ransoms to collect! Cue anticlimactic sub crane death.

Fast forward to FYEO. We've got a wheelchair-bound bald Blofeld in a neck brace. This is Blofeld-B. He never recovered from his neck injuries sustained in the bobsled chase. Dissapointed with Irma Bunt's marksmanship, he's spent the last decade or so trying to get revenge on Bond. Again, unlike his world-ransoming counterpart, this one is more interested in personal matters. If he couldn't have his freedom, he'd get his revenge.

Now, this is all silly conjecture on my part - there's no way the writers intended things to be interpreted this way. But it's a convenient enough way to reconcile Blofeld's inability to identify Bond, as well as the two onscreen deaths of the same character.


I think the duplicates is the theory that I personally like to explain the discrepancy. You present a plausible version of it as well.

You could also argue that Blofeld-B isn't really an opportunist but he's someone whose had to spend a lot of time creating a believable "cover"; arguably he's building himself up in Europe while Blofeld is in Japan setting up YOLT. In DAF, Blofeld was trying to create 2 (at least) duplicates of himself - is it just to prevent assassination? Or is he readying some other plots that require him to be in multiple places for long periods of time?

#26 starschwar

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

I think the duplicates is the theory that I personally like to explain the discrepancy. You present a plausible version of it as well.

You could also argue that Blofeld-B isn't really an opportunist but he's someone whose had to spend a lot of time creating a believable "cover"; arguably he's building himself up in Europe while Blofeld is in Japan setting up YOLT. In DAF, Blofeld was trying to create 2 (at least) duplicates of himself - is it just to prevent assassination? Or is he readying some other plots that require him to be in multiple places for long periods of time?


Thank you. You raise a good point. We know OHMSS Blofeld is quite adept at brainwashing. Perhaps the Blofeld duplicates are subjected to the same treatment - to the point where they genuinely believe themselves to be the original. Or, at the very least, perfectly devoted to his goals and worldview. It's a perfect contingency plan, really. "You only live twice", indeed.

Edited by starschwar, 08 November 2012 - 06:17 PM.


#27 starschwar

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:45 PM

Most certainly. It's really just a case of inconsistent writing / adaptation planning, nothing more. This just my silly attempt to justify it in-universe.

#28 stamper

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

It's not badly handed. recurring actors who ask for more money IS bad handling.

Plus there was no Bond on VHS or TV then. People would just sightly remember who played the villains.

#29 George Kaplan

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

That is BS and you know it. You're reading way too much into this whole thing to be healthy, methinks.


Aw, I like fan theories. And this one actually uses the continuity established by the movies.

Recurring actors at least keep a semblance of continuity - better that money spent than the shambles that we're left with!

Not really sure you're right on this one. They had newspapers and magazines to remind them, plus, reruns of the James Bond films in 2 film sets also. I don't thinik people could mix up Donald Pleasance and Charles Gray, somehow. Couldn't get much different than those two portrayals of Ernst Stavro Blofeld, there.


Yeah, I think people would have certainly known (I can't imagine the entertainment magazines at the time didn't pointed out that Charles Gray hadn't already been in Bond in a different role in YOLT when DAF came out). I kind of doubt the audiences cared that much, though, beyond the fans. The average audience is going to see a new actor and - if they're good in the part - accept it. Doesn't matter if its Blofeld or Felix Leiter.

#30 col_007

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:27 PM

The other nod to OHMSS is so slight, you almost miss it. When Moneypenny tells him that Mr. Franks' papers were well in order, he asks her if there's anything he can bring her back from Holland. She suggests a diamond... in a ring. The look of pain on Bond's face is so blatant, and genuine that only Connery could have pulled it off.

...and then it's gone a second later.


it's a bit out of character from Moneypenny in that scene

Did you mean this


http://i271.photobuc...nes/DAFBond.jpg

Edited by col_007, 12 November 2012 - 04:47 PM.