45 replies to this topic

[The*SPY*]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but up until recently, I always got the impression that Greene was conducting the meeting during the opera, however reently while watching Q of S with sub-titles, it revealed that Mr. White is invoved in the conversation. We never see him talking and only hear his voice (and quite muffled at that), however the subtitles reveal that it is Mr. White who is directing the meeting and asking the questions of everyone. He actually asks "Any objections?" to which everyone gives their response. Anyone else have noticed this?

[Single-O-Seven]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but up until recently, I always got the impression that Greene was conducting the meeting during the opera, however reently while watching Q of S with sub-titles, it revealed that Mr. White is invoved in the conversation. We never see him talking and only hear his voice (and quite muffled at that), however the subtitles reveal that it is Mr. White who is directing the meeting and asking the questions of everyone. He actually asks "Any objections?" to which everyone gives their response. Anyone else have noticed this?

I hadn't noticed, and was quite certain that he was silent the whole time, which was why Bond seems oblivious of his presence there. It was my impression White was there to monitor the discussion without getting involved.

[The Shark]

Missionary, I think.

[Guy Haines]

I don't think Mr White was the "chairman" of the opera meeting, but he was certainly the only one who kept his head, when all about were losing theirs. Bond intervenes, starts snapping pictures and, well, you know the rest. Then again, given Mr White's recent injury, a sudden exit should have been out of the question - even though, and this still baffles me, he apparently managed a quick escape from the MI6 interrogation centre earlier in the film.

[Aris007]

I'll go with "The Shark" here. A missionary is the closest thing to him. If he had been the chairman of Quantum then he'd have been in a safer place in the opera, not between citizens, where a common sniper can take him.

[Lachesis]

I'll go with "The Shark" here. A missionary is the closest thing to him. If he had been the chairman of Quantum then he'd have been in a safer place in the opera, not between citizens, where a common sniper can take him.

I believe The Shark may have been referrring to another kind of position ^^

[Aris007]

I'll go with "The Shark" here. A missionary is the closest thing to him. If he had been the chairman of Quantum then he'd have been in a safer place in the opera, not between citizens, where a common sniper can take him.

I believe The Shark may have been referrring to another kind of position ^^

Such as? Pardon me if I'm wrong!

[AMC Hornet]

If Mr. White's position isn't Missionary, then perhaps it's Doggie style?

Get it now?

[Guy Haines]

If Mr. White's position isn't Missionary, then perhaps it's Doggie style?

Get it now?

Given that leg wound I mentioned above, I'd have thought that any kind of position - managerial, observational or...er...the other kind that The Shark referred to - would be really rather painful!

[Automan]

If Mr. White's position isn't Missionary, then perhaps it's Doggie style?

Get it now?

Given that leg wound I mentioned above, I'd have thought that any kind of position - managerial, observational or...er...the other kind that The Shark referred to - would be really rather painful!

Pain is pleasure, don't knock it till u tried it!

[Quantumofsolace007]

he is not the leader.

and all evil people like Doggie not missionary everyone knows that

[Single-O-Seven]

Until his injuries heel he's keeping on his back, and enjoying a bit of Reverse Cowgirl.

[The Shark]

he is not the leader.

and all evil people like Doggie not missionary everyone knows that

I take it you learn that the hard way?

[Single-O-Seven]

he is not the leader.

and all evil people like Doggie not missionary everyone knows that

I take it you learn that the hard way?

You better be getting a reach-around with that.

[Quantumofsolace007]

he is not the leader.

and all evil people like Doggie not missionary everyone knows that

I take it you learn that the hard way?

really aren't u a bit more mature then to make a "quantumofsolace007 is gay" joke

I'm afraid i will have to counter with "I'm rubber your glue anything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you."

[Aris007]

If Mr. White's position isn't Missionary, then perhaps it's Doggie style?

Get it now?

Aha!

[Bryce (003)]

OK then....

I'll just file the last comments in to the UTSPV of the CBn Team.

Now, as to the original question of the thread and BOT...

Here's my take.

White is clearly an administrator. Sort of the Chief of Staff (Tanner if you will) in Quantum. He oversees their dealings. Although, having just seen both CR and QoS in the last few days, one line stuck in my head from CR.

When arranging the meeting with LeChiffre and the warlords in the opening, he says "My organisation". Take it as you will, but it sounds rather possessive. i.e. - He's the man. During his questioning in QoS, he almost complains and gloats as a cornered CEO about MI6 not knowing anything but Quantum thinking they have the intelligence agencies right at their heels. Then Mitchell tries to take everyone out. Why would the number two man in Quantum have the inside man closest to the head of MI6 expose himself and take the chance of either of them being captured? Also, at the opera, he's the only one of the group that does the right thing in terms of covert intelligence. He doesn't run. Everyone else scatters like cockroaches and get's ID'd by Bond.

He's either #1 or #2 but I suspect Haines is his number two.

So, based on my over zealous Bond/spy thinking, White is the head of Quantum. Time will tell.

"No further comments your honor."

*Bryce lights smoke and pours a glass of Speyside 12*

[AMC Hornet]

So why the hell did Bond go after Mitchell? He and M had White. Mitchell was blown. So he gets away. The only reason to chase him was so that Bond could show off what he'd learned from Molloka a few months earlier. Sweating White was more important - to find out what his 'position' was with his organization - missionary or reverse cowgirl?

Still, "Tosca isn't for everyone."

[Bryce (003)]

Good point. Let him go and grill White after securing M. Mitchell was just a point man for White. Track his butt down later. Alas no, that wasn't the option.

Clearly there are many issues of logic (or lack there of) in QoS.

[Guy Haines]

In this particular scene, not only logic. How does a man who has been shot in the leg with a high powered gun suddenly get up and walk away, because that, presumably, is what Mr White did whilst Bond was busy tracking down Mitchell across the sewers and rooftops of Sienna.

In the real world, M and Bond probably would want to concentrate on White, rather than waste time chasing after a minor villain. Then again, how many times have we seen Mr Bond in the power of a typical arch adversary, who proceeds to wine and dine him, shows him around the lair, explains his evil scheme, even allows him to bed his lady friend (if she's attractive), before trying to "kill him in an overly elaborate way"? (to borrow a line from, I think, Dr Evil.)

Times many, I think. We had a typical example on TV yesterday, in TSWLM. Bond is invited to Atlantis, exchanges pleasantries with Stromberg, gives the lair a once over, glimpses the evil scheme, even views a model of the supertanker. Stromberg's response? "Let them get ashore - and then kill them." Why not just drop Bond and Anya in the shark tank then and there?

I suppose the point I'm making is that, for the sake of some of the things we expect to see in a Bond film, logic doesn't always apply.

[Lachesis]

I suppose the point I'm making is that, for the sake of some of the things we expect to see in a Bond film, logic doesn't always apply.

Indeed the need for another action sequence is often the bane of Bond Logic, however imo the disturbing additional element this time seems to be illustrating its actually exclusively Bond's own choices that result in a sequence of diminishing returns - we dont know their exact positions/ranks in Quantum but imo its likely White>Greene>Mitchell>Yuseff and so the one we end up with seems curiously underwhelming in real terms.

[Single-O-Seven]

OK then....

I'll just file the last comments in to the UTSPV of the CBn Team.

Now, as to the original question of the thread and BOT...

Here's my take.

White is clearly an administrator. Sort of the Chief of Staff (Tanner if you will) in Quantum. He oversees their dealings. Although, having just seen both CR and QoS in the last few days, one line stuck in my head from CR.

When arranging the meeting with LeChiffre and the warlords in the opening, he says "My organisation". Take it as you will, but it sounds rather possessive. i.e. - He's the man. During his questioning in QoS, he almost complains and gloats as a cornered CEO about MI6 not knowing anything but Quantum thinking they have the intelligence agencies right at their heels. Then Mitchell tries to take everyone out. Why would the number two man in Quantum have the inside man closest to the head of MI6 expose himself and take the chance of either of them being captured? Also, at the opera, he's the only one of the group that does the right thing in terms of covert intelligence. He doesn't run. Everyone else scatters like coakroaches and get's ID'd by Bond.

He's either #1 or #2 but I suspect Haines is his number two.

So, based on my over zealous Bond/spy thinking, White is the head of Quantum. Time will tell.

"No further comments your honor."

*Bryce lights smoke and pours a glass of Speyside 12*

I agree that Haines is just below White - it would make sense to have such a high-ranking government official at the top of Quantum's asset list. However, I still don't feel White is #1 in Quantum, though he likely does report to whomever #1 may be. I suspect he may be on the next tier down, but probably shares that tier with several others, who are board members to Quantum's CEO. White may oversee certain operations and report directly to the head man (or woman!) but I doubt he is the head man.

I seriously hope things don't run afoul, and that this story continues so we can get some answers to these and other troubling matters swirling around the Quantum mystery.

[Bryce (003)]

"Bond Logic" - That may become a new term on these boards.

I'm still on the fence as to White. Part of me says he is #1 in Quantum and sort of like the boss that gets his hands dirty, yet he does have or present the notion that there's someone to answer to. Also, he's the one who dispatched LeChiffre. Was it under the orders of a superior or because the boss (him) decided to clean up his own mess because he was pissed that he made a bad decision in employing a guy who got screwed at the poker table? Bond had, through circumstance, taken care of the warlords.

Now, Vesper's boyfriend. What information was or is to be gleaned from him? He's clearly in the employ of Quantum. His job, seduce women working for or with intelligence agencies and swoon them then fake being kidnapped and extort what ever intelligence his superiors require.

I do love the last scene in QoS and Bond's confrontation. Say what you will of the film, but that end bit cemented Craig as Fleming's Bond. I was sold after CR on him, but that drove the final nail in for me and made me anxious to see his next outing.

[Aris007]

Part of me says he is #1 in Quantum and sort of like the boss that gets his hands dirty, yet he does have or present the notion that there's someone to answer to. Also, he's the one who dispatched LeChiffre.

That's why I don't believe that he's the "chairman" of Quantum. A real boss doesn't go to the field to eliminate a target. He usually sends somebody below him to do the job. Imagine Blofeld. He never hunted Bond personally. He always had somebody else to do that. Or in a better example imagine you, Sir! The Admiral never goes alone to take care of someone. He always sends you!

[Bryce (003)]

Heh-heh-heh...

Yes, I guess I am the Admiral's favorite terrier, but he'll never admit it. Chiefly of the CBn Team, Stromberg and I are the ones who do the "dirty work" if need be. We don't enjoy it, but we are good at it.

Also, Blofeld has directly gone after Bond. In OHMSS (novel) he's the one that fires on Bond and Tracy. In the film, Bunt does the shooting but he is present, just incapacitaed from his neck brace.

In giving it some more thought, White is #2. Think Largo in TB and going back to my Tanner theory previously, it makes sense.

[jaguar007]

Times many, I think. We had a typical example on TV yesterday, in TSWLM. Bond is invited to Atlantis, exchanges pleasantries with Stromberg, gives the lair a once over, glimpses the evil scheme, even views a model of the supertanker. Stromberg's response? "Let them get ashore - and then kill them." Why not just drop Bond and Anya in the shark tank then and there?

Actually I always assumed that Stromberg didn't want Bond killed on Atlantis because that would open up further investigation into Stromberg's activities on Atlantis. What always puzzled me was why Drax ordered Bond killed on his property when Bond was just making a casual inquiry. Certainly that would point a finger to Drax guilt.

[Bryce (003)]

Agreed on TSWLM - Yeah, a MI6 and Russian agent killed on his turf (although operating covertly) yet by his invite would have brought Hell down on Atlantis and his operation.

As to MR, the centerfuge bit could have been claimed as a terrible accident and Bond did, largely beacause of Holly's disdain for him, willingly agree to climb in. It still would have brought undue attention to Drax, but he wouldn't have cared as his plan was less than a week from execution and he already had a hidden space station in orbit.

"Bond Logic" - or lack there of, should become a new thread of it's own.

[Aris007]

Really I don't think there's such thing as "logic" in thsese boards!

[AMC Hornet]

Sure there is: "Bond logic" - a new oxymoron. Moonraker was full of "Bond Logic", as were YOLT, TND and, as already pointed out and coined by our own Guy Haines, QoS.

It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to impress the audience until the movie is over. Then they can leave the theatre saying "wait a minute...."

Edited by AMC Hornet, 24 August 2010 - 12:07 AM.

[The*SPY*]

Perhaps people have not noticed my point. Did anyone else know that Mr. White was leading the conversation at the opera? I did not know...I just heard voices but discovered who was saying what when we ran the subtitles during a viewing.

As for Mr. White's real position: I imagine that he will be suspected to be the #2 man in Quantum. Finally when Bond does meet the mysterious head of Quantum it will be revealed that it is none other than Mr. White's pet Capuchian monkey. Then it will be revelaed that Mr. White was the head of Quantum after all and that his role was merely a ruse and opportunity to be amongst his staff.