39 replies to this topic

[Trident]

Project X will re-invent Bond in 2011, nearly sixty years after his first appearence. We already touched a few times on the fact that there will have to be changes from Fleming's originals. But what exactly does X-Bond simply need in your opinion to still be Bond? Where do you draw the line?

Is it the original cast, Messervy, Moneypenny, Boothroyd? Belongs Leiter into the X-timeline (I know your answer, Righty007)? Would Bond's background and origin be a matter of discussion for you, could you live with a different one? His rank, his brands, his clothes? The way of looking at his timepiece? What would be imperative for the 21st century Bond and (perhaps most important) why do you think would it be so?

My own focus would be on the main traits of Bond's personality, adventurous, dedicated, curious. Kind of an adrenaline addict, jaded and sarcastic but at the same time also enjoying his work and the tension it brings. If that was present in X-Bond then I could live with some differences to the original, particularly where outdated or ludicrous elements are concerned. I wouldn't miss a Bentley if X-Bond didn't feature one.

[Righty007]

Is it the original cast, Messervy, Moneypenny, Boothroyd? Belongs Leiter into the X-timeline (I know your answer, Righty007)?

[Double-Oh Agent]

Project X will re-invent Bond in 2011, nearly sixty years after his first appearence. We already touched a few times on the fact that there will have to be changes from Fleming's originals. But what exactly does X-Bond simply need in your opinion to still be Bond? Where do you draw the line?

Is it the original cast, Messervy, Moneypenny, Boothroyd? Belongs Leiter into the X-timeline (I know your answer, Righty007)? Would Bond's background and origin be a matter of discussion for you, could you live with a different one? His rank, his brands, his clothes? The way of looking at his timepiece? What would be imperative for the 21st century Bond and (perhaps most important) why do you think would it be so?

My own focus would be on the main traits of Bond's personality, adventurous, dedicated, curious. Kind of an adrenaline addict, jaded and sarcastic but at the same time also enjoying his work and the tension it brings. If that was present in X-Bond then I could live with some differences to the original, particularly where outdated or ludicrous elements are concerned. I wouldn't miss a Bentley if X-Bond didn't feature one.

Bond's background needs to remain the same (i.e. orphaned when his parents die in a climbing accident, raised by his Aunt Charmian, attended Eton where he is eventually kicked out for an indiscretion with a maid, attending Fettes, naval background where he earned the rank of commander). Likewise, his personality needs to be the same. A bit of a thrill seeker where he feels most alive and vital when he is doing a (dangerous) mission and who feels bored when stuck for too long a period in the office. He's a jack of all trades type who excels in his never say die attitude, an expert marksman and knife thrower, good hand to hand combatant (though not top-notch), skilled driver. He should be good with the ladies and opinionated in his private thoughts and good with the ladies. He should also have the scare on his cheek and a comma of hair falling down above his eye.

As for who should be present, I'd say pretty much all his supporting cast in their original forms. Miles Messervy, Bill Tanner, and Jane Moneypenny should always be present with occasional appearances by Godfrey Boothroyd (at least according to Samantha Weinberg Boothroyd's first name is Godfrey), James Molony, Rene Mathis, and Felix Leiter. Bond's maid May is not going to appear apparently and if any (semi)regular is going to be gone, she is the one to skip.

Basically, I say keep Bond and his supporting cast--along with their various backgrounds--the same as before, just update them to the present day and where Bond is new to the Double-Oh Section.

[Trident]

I largely agree about Bond's background, not much need for change there. Although I suspect the knife throwing is really more of a circus act than a reliable defense. Also I have my doubts regarding the rank 'Commander', which may be unrealistic today for a character not yet in his middle-forties. On the other hand it's not so much of a concern probably that it would impair on the fun I daresay.

[Aris007]

Bond's background also influences his behaviour and his character. In my opinion Bond is Bond because of his inner world. He's brutal and a killing machine thing that is shown in his thoughts and his moves. That's what I want in Deaver's novel. I'm sad that Bond will be a non-smoker on this one, because Bond needs to smoke those 60 cigarettes a day but anyway, I can live without it.

[Trident]

Bond's background also influences his behaviour and his character. In my opinion Bond is Bond because of his inner world. He's brutal and a killing machine thing that is shown in his thoughts and his moves. That's what I want in Deaver's novel. I'm sad that Bond will be a non-smoker on this one, because Bond needs to smoke those 60 cigarettes a day but anyway, I can live without it.

I would suggest that the smoking (as well as over-indulgence with alcohol) betrays the enormous strain Bond lives under. It's a let-out for this extreme pressure, Bond's means to deal with his nerves. Can we think of another method, more modern and less impairing on his abilities, to get by, to survive the day at least halfway balanced and ready-for-duty? Something that appeals to his adventurous streak, yet doesn't show on a tox-screen?

[Loomis]

But what exactly does X-Bond simply need in your opinion to still be Bond?

Nothing.

I'm being completely serious. I don't think Deaver needs to keep anything in particular, beyond the name "James Bond" and the number "007". If he wants to reinvent the character and his universe from the ground up, then that's fine by me, because A. I've still got my Flemings on my bookshelf, and B. such a radical reinvention has never been done before.

Predictably, though, it looks like Deaver is keeping a lot from Fleming. We already know that Mary Goodnight and Moneypenny are in the book. (Although why is Goodnight Bond's secretary if Deaver's book is about a Bond who's new to the Double-O section? Fleming didn't bring her in until OHMSS. Surely this young Bond's secretary - or should that be "personal assistant"? - ought to be Loelia Ponsonby.) We also know that Bond has a military background. So it won't be surprising if Tanner, Leiter and co. also show up, or if things like Eton and incidents with boys' maids are mentioned.

But I'd rather that Deaver took Bond and really made him his own. I think he should have a completely free hand.

[Trident]

But if we re-invent Bond, then the result should be Bond, shouldn't it? Just coming up with an agent that happens to be called James Bond isn't exactly the same.

I mean, there are two ways in my opinion to do this. One is to take Bond's character that only happened to end up in the SIS because of WWII. Without that I think I'd have a strong case for that particular Bond, Fleming's Bond, ending up as a writer and gourmet for a travel-magazine or guidebook, Guide Micheline or some such.

That Bond would quickly have run to obesity, but would have had a much happier and less painful life, probably three times divorced and mainly having sex with cheap prostitutes after the age of 45 or so. He would have traveled the world while a mad Nazi bombed London to ashes, a Soviet agent robbed Fort Knox and an early forerunner of Qaida blackmailed NATO with two H-bombs. Peoples lives in that version would have been dreadful (although Connery would have played the role of his life, Harry Flashman, instead that of a shady secret agent), but Bond would have had his fun nonetheless.

From time to time he would have felt an urge to hold a Baretta or Walther, for no apparent reason he could explain to himself. But he would have long since stopped wondering, why this should be, when one day in 1974 the doctor mentions the word 'emphysema'. I think that would be Bond, even Fleming's Bond, if done well. But it would also not be what IFP and we fans are ultimately after.

The other way, the one I think Deaver and IFP are aiming for, is to set the result of Fleming's Bond, the hard-bitten secret agent into the here and now, show him as a child of our times. But it could IMO not be a completely different person from the one we expect. Or it would indeed come down to something completely alien, something like Rucka's 'Queen & Country' perhaps (which certainy is a worthy contender; it's just not Bond).

[David Schofield]

Deaver's Bond needs everything - and I do mean EVERYTHING - Fleming's Bond had experienced to age 27,28 or 29 or whatever age Deaver finally decides upon (forward adjusted by 60 years, obviously).

Other than that, he does NOT need Messervy, Boothroyd, Moneypenny, Loelia, Mary, Tanner or May. Further, it seems odd you'd even think about chucking the Fleming backstory while keeping some futile stock characters.

If he isn't going to have the characteristics Fleming taught him in those first 27,28,29 etc years, then he isn't James Bond.

If that's thye case, surely Jeff must have a rejected manuscript lying about into which he can paste the name "James Bond" over the orginal lead's name, IFP publish and hey, instant bestseller on the cheap without much effort.

But it wouldn't be James Bond.

[Tybre]

I think ultimately we're going to have to see some distance from Fleming's Bond no matter what. For one thing, it's being written by a different author. But even from an in-universe perspective, Fleming's Bond smokes and drinks way too much and eats a little too well in those early adventures. Sure, the man gets plenty of exercise on assignment and does the odd bit of training (such as in LALD) but one gets the impression most of his downtime back in London is spent just sort of loafing about or doing paperwork. It's a miracle Fleming's Bond didn't run to fat. Or that he could achieve just about anything he achieved with the amount of cigarettes his smoked. Come to think on it, how did any part of Bond's body survive anything? Between his health habits and the stuff that went down on his assignments, he should've toppled over well before Thunderball came along to change things a bit.

So changing of that would be a plus. Sure, it's part of what makes Fleming's Bond fun, but it just won't work for a Bond of the 2010s. Especially if they intended for this Project X to spawn a semi-successful new line of books.

I agree Bond's background should be kept basically the same. Obviously some stuff will have to be tweaked, like some of what they've revealed, such as Bond serving in Afghanistan v WWII, but all in all the core pieces of his background should stay the same. But all in all Fleming!Bond's history updated for the modern day would work rather fine, I suppose.

As to supporting cast, Sir Miles is a must. Any others should be handled as Fleming would have. Boothroyd didn't turn up in every single story; nor did Moneypenny or Leiter. If the situation calls for it, put them in, but no matter what stuffy old M is a vital component. I mean, sure, he can get assignments in the fold, but he's not always going to be in the fold. Someone needs to give him his hits.

[Zorin Industries]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am getting tired of the whole reboot fashion - in film, books and beyond. It smacks of creative laziness (it is far harder to continue an existing character than take the easy route of starting again - which just leads to fan-wankery and misplaced notions of where and when such and such moment first appears). Does SPIDERMAN 2011/12 really need to be an "origin story" (for example) when Tobey Maguire sort of did the naive school student PETER thing in most of his entries?

And CASINO ROYALE the 2006 film was no more a reboot than LIVE AND LET DIE or THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS was (even down to the story and the OO status beginning). The Bond films work in a world of poetic licence - where the main character can be recast, but his boss does not, where CIA allies can be recast but not as often as a Whitehall secretary etc.

[OmarB]

No changes are "necessary" except what the authors thinks are. We are also talking about a new universe that has to be recognizably Fleming's man but streamlined in a way that it can be handled by different authors.

So what do I think changes? Other than the birth date (which we may still never know for certain), the things that go along with growing up in the 80's. This Bond may be more into gambling online for instance, instead of going across to France to CR every weekend. His attitudes towards social mores and health issues (including exercise) will be updated I'm sure, but not to the point where he's all politically correct. I bigger deal might be made of his Boxing and Judo skills from school, it reasserts his healthier lifestyle and give as reason for him to be fast tracked into the 00 section. The kid's pretty strong and handles himself really well.

I see it working out like Robert Ludlum's Covert One series. He outlined 5 books and was set to start the work when he died. Now the series is past those 5 books and each has a different author (though Gayle Lynds showed up twice) but it works rather well.

[Trident]

Some most interesting thoughts already, even most extreme ones 'shove all' vs. 'keep all'. Some very valid points too, particularly the observation of a certain overabundance of rebooting this and that.

I think while the basic disposition of Bond should be left untouched we will nonetheless have to think of a few changes in the backstory. For example, what school would throw a guy for being caught red-handed with a maid? I daresay not even a cloister would resort to such extreme measures right at the start. To arrive at this result Bond's partner would have had to be either a female teacher or the wife of a male one. Otherwise I see not how a sexual incident could lead to a scandal that would justify to get rid of the brat.

So perhaps the task would be to think of ways that would provide Bond with the experiences necessary for a character such as Fleming depicted?

[OmarB]

I could see him still being kicked out of school for having slept with a maid. I remember when I was going to private school I was almost thrown out because I had left campus when there was no classes, like a 5 in the evening. It's a private school and their rules go and from my own experience I can totally see him being thrown out for that.

[David Schofield]

I think while the basic disposition of Bond should be left untouched we will nonetheless have to think of a few changes in the backstory. For example, what school would throw a guy for being caught red-handed with a maid? I daresay not even a cloister would resort to such extreme measures right at the start. To arrive at this result Bond's partner would have had to be either a female teacher or the wife of a male one. Otherwise I see not how a sexual incident could lead to a scandal that would justify to get rid of the brat.

So perhaps the task would be to think of ways that would provide Bond with the experiences necessary for a character such as Fleming depicted?

Come on, Trident, Eton has changed but not THAT much...

Pretty sure if Bond were caught inflegrante with a maid - literaly bumping uggles - however preliminarily ( ), he'd be shown the door.

Particularly without a staunch father-figure to defend his case.

(Remember, his dad has still fallen off a mountain. )

And knows what Eton would have done to him if, instead, he had run-off with that said-same maid to Europe knowing she was a IRA agent and had just been part of a plot to assassinate the Royal Family, sir.

[The Shark]

Bond's background also influences his behaviour and his character. In my opinion Bond is Bond because of his inner world. He's brutal and a killing machine thing that is shown in his thoughts and his moves. That's what I want in Deaver's novel. I'm sad that Bond will be a non-smoker on this one, because Bond needs to smoke those 60 cigarettes a day but anyway, I can live without it.

I would suggest that the smoking (as well as over-indulgence with alcohol) betrays the enormous strain Bond lives under. It's a let-out for this extreme pressure, Bond's means to deal with his nerves. Can we think of another method, more modern and less impairing on his abilities, to get by, to survive the day at least halfway balanced and ready-for-duty? Something that appeals to his adventurous streak, yet doesn't show on a tox-screen?

One word: Benzedrine.

Come on, Trident, Eton has changed but not THAT much...

Heterosexual sex is still out of bounds.

[David Schofield]

Come on, Trident, Eton has changed but not THAT much...

Heterosexual sex is still out of bounds.

Well, t'other way's part of the curriculum there, isn't it?

Wouldn't be surprised if both Fleming and the original Bond took it between the cheeks as part their education.

Wonder if Deaver'll bring that nugget up to date?

[0077]

People here are making valid points. I myself would like to see a combonation of Fleming and Deaveer elements with the new series. Keep the existing characters: A male M that is hopefully Sir Miles, Moneypenny, Boothroyd...I wonder if he'll be called Q, Felix, et certa.

I think Goodnight's role won't be just as Bond's sectary, I think she'll function for all OO's that are within the office. Provided that the double O section now has offices for it's agents.

[Loomis]

But it wouldn't be James Bond.

But the thing is, James Bond is anything IFP says is James Bond. IFP are in the business of flogging the brand and making money, any which way they can.

I've said this until I'm blue in the face: if you want the real deal, go to Fleming. Only Fleming.

[whiteskwirl]

I agree with Loomis that Deaver doesn't have to keep anything he doesn't want. James Bond is bigger than Ian Fleming and has been for several decades. Whatever Deaver or anyone else does with Bond is not going to change what Fleming did. The movie Bond is different from Fleming's Bond, but that hasn't stopped anyone from considering them "James Bond" films. Well, now we can not only have movie and literary Bond, but another literary Bond.

I don't want Deaver, or any other writer, to keep one foot inside Fleming's world and another in the contemporary world. It just doesn't work. Think how great Benson's books would have been if he had abandoned the nods to Fleming and just did his own thing. Obviously his writing style was nowhere near the same as Fleming. It was more cinematic, novelisation-ish even. But the Fleming characters and backstory drags it down and tries to have it both ways, and it just didn't work. Deaver could have the same problem if he tries to keep too much from Fleming. I'd rather Deaver do his own thing, take a stand and say "this is the new James Bond" - because that what it is, a new James Bond. He could change everything and it would still be James Bond. Those who are saying "if he doesn't have ____ then it's not James Bond" really are saying "if he doesn't have _____ then it's not Fleming's James Bond", which is going to be the case regardless what Deaver does.

[Trident]

Pretty sure if Bond were caught inflegrante with a maid - literaly bumping uggles - however preliminarily ( ), he'd be shown the door.

Heterosexual sex is still out of bounds.

Incredible... I should have thought you'd have to get extremely 'intimate' on a much more public basis (think: film with Rocco Siffredi, Lexi Belle, Helen Duval and various others; if the film was shown at prime time on an unencrypted channel and all your teachers saw your 'performance') to achieve getting thrown out.

Odd really. What's the fun in attending a public school if you can't buy yourself out of every thight spot? Bit pointless and naff, isn't it?

Bond's background also influences his behaviour and his character. In my opinion Bond is Bond because of his inner world. He's brutal and a killing machine thing that is shown in his thoughts and his moves. That's what I want in Deaver's novel. I'm sad that Bond will be a non-smoker on this one, because Bond needs to smoke those 60 cigarettes a day but anyway, I can live without it.

I would suggest that the smoking (as well as over-indulgence with alcohol) betrays the enormous strain Bond lives under. It's a let-out for this extreme pressure, Bond's means to deal with his nerves. Can we think of another method, more modern and less impairing on his abilities, to get by, to survive the day at least halfway balanced and ready-for-duty? Something that appeals to his adventurous streak, yet doesn't show on a tox-screen?

One word: Benzedrine.

Oh, I'm afraid Benzedrine shows like hell when the nosey M wants to know what kind of fun the members of his department indulge in. Also has the nasty byeffect of making the user a tad little bit too confident.

[DAN LIGHTER]

Bond should not wear a watch for Jim's sanity's sake. Sorry if that pisses on your Bonfire Dell Deaton.

Bond could tell the time by using his hands and the sun like survival expert Bear Grylls. He just holds his hand up to the sun and knows the time. Bond doesn't need to learn the craft of hiding in a elephant carcuss though. Best leave that to super tit Grylls.

[godwulf]

That Bond would quickly have run to obesity, but would have had a much happier and less painful life, probably three times divorced and mainly having sex with cheap prostitutes after the age of 45 or so. He would have traveled the world while a mad Nazi bombed London to ashes, a Soviet agent robbed Fort Knox and an early forerunner of Qaida blackmailed NATO with two H-bombs. Peoples lives in that version would have been dreadful (although Connery would have played the role of his life, Harry Flashman, instead that of a shady secret agent), but Bond would have had his fun nonetheless.

From time to time he would have felt an urge to hold a Baretta or Walther, for no apparent reason he could explain to himself. But he would have long since stopped wondering, why this should be, when one day in 1974 the doctor mentions the word 'emphysema'. I think that would be Bond, even Fleming's Bond, if done well. But it would also not be what IFP and we fans are ultimately after.

This scenario has the makings of a really wonderful short story, I think. Sort of an alternate universe story, with an "It's a Wonderful Life" sort of feel (only much darker)...asking the question, "What would the world be like had James Bond not joined the Secret Service?"

Someone mentioned exercise, and it always struck me that Bond really wasn't doing all that much of it on a daily or weekly basis, aside from what he got in bed or in dodging the odd bullet or knife. I seem to recall a few mentions of Bond's morning exercise routine consisting of something fairly lightweight like twenty pushups and twenty toe-touches - not exactly Doc Savage territory.

At any rate, I, for one, have faith that JD, long-time Bond fan that he is, will come up with a backstory that blends Fleming and the 21st Century in a clever and interesting way. Will everyone be 100% pleased? Of course not...but having just finished The Man from Barbarossa, myself, any adventure that echoes Fleming even a little bit would thrill me no end.

[Trident]

That Bond would quickly have run to obesity, but would have had a much happier and less painful life, probably three times divorced and mainly having sex with cheap prostitutes after the age of 45 or so. He would have traveled the world while a mad Nazi bombed London to ashes, a Soviet agent robbed Fort Knox and an early forerunner of Qaida blackmailed NATO with two H-bombs. Peoples lives in that version would have been dreadful (although Connery would have played the role of his life, Harry Flashman, instead that of a shady secret agent), but Bond would have had his fun nonetheless.

From time to time he would have felt an urge to hold a Baretta or Walther, for no apparent reason he could explain to himself. But he would have long since stopped wondering, why this should be, when one day in 1974 the doctor mentions the word 'emphysema'. I think that would be Bond, even Fleming's Bond, if done well. But it would also not be what IFP and we fans are ultimately after.

This scenario has the makings of a really wonderful short story, I think. Sort of an alternate universe story, with an "It's a Wonderful Life" sort of feel (only much darker)...asking the question, "What would the world be like had James Bond not joined the Secret Service?"

Glad you liked it. Perhaps I'll expand on it one day.

Someone mentioned exercise, and it always struck me that Bond really wasn't doing all that much of it on a daily or weekly basis, aside from what he got in bed or in dodging the odd bullet or knife. I seem to recall a few mentions of Bond's morning exercise routine consisting of something fairly lightweight like twenty pushups and twenty toe-touches - not exactly Doc Savage territory.

How about if Bond runs to his headquarters instead of wearing down the seat of his car? It wouldn't have to be every day, but I think it certainly should be within his powers to do the approximately 2.5 miles to Regent's Park or the 5 miles to Vauxhall four times a week.

Alternatively Bond should spend an hour from 5am to 6am running in Hyde Park before he sets out to the office.

[godwulf]

Glad you liked it. Perhaps I'll expand on it one day.

Another would be a story involving a very elderly Bond - Fleming's Bond, who would be in the neighborhood of 90 these days - dealing with the modern world, with perhaps a touch of senility complicating things. I read a story exactly like this some years ago that had Tarzan, Lord Greystoke, as its central character...in a near-future world, attempting to get a robot waiter in a fully automated restaurant to give him a raw steak.

[David Schofield]

Glad you liked it. Perhaps I'll expand on it one day.

Another would be a story involving a very elderly Bond - Fleming's Bond, who would be in the neighborhood of 90 these days - dealing with the modern world, with perhaps a touch of senility complicating things.

Read Weinberg Vol III for that. It's there.

[Trident]

Glad you liked it. Perhaps I'll expand on it one day.

Another would be a story involving a very elderly Bond - Fleming's Bond, who would be in the neighborhood of 90 these days - dealing with the modern world, with perhaps a touch of senility complicating things. I read a story exactly like this some years ago that had Tarzan, Lord Greystoke, as its central character...in a near-future world, attempting to get a robot waiter in a fully automated restaurant to give him a raw steak.

I once imagined Fleming meeting Bond in a similar setting, retirement home. Both being forced to share a room and both accusing the other of ing up his life. A nasty odd couple, insufferably finicky and particular, both trying to get a hand on the nurse's or a view into her cleavage. Both begrudging the other his life. A black comedy or a funny tragedy. I just have to write it one day.

Oh, and regarding the running, there would be a nice introducing scene for X-Bond when two thugs decide to have a little fun with one of these jogging-kids...

[godwulf]

Glad you liked it. Perhaps I'll expand on it one day.

Another would be a story involving a very elderly Bond - Fleming's Bond, who would be in the neighborhood of 90 these days - dealing with the modern world, with perhaps a touch of senility complicating things.

Read Weinberg Vol III for that. It's there.

Sorry, I don't understand the reference.

[David Schofield]

Glad you liked it. Perhaps I'll expand on it one day.

Another would be a story involving a very elderly Bond - Fleming's Bond, who would be in the neighborhood of 90 these days - dealing with the modern world, with perhaps a touch of senility complicating things.

Read Weinberg Vol III for that. It's there.

Sorry, I don't understand the reference.

You should just read Sam Weinberg's "Moneypenny Diaries" Vol III - "Final Fling".

What you are looking for is in that book. And done beautifully.

[godwulf]

You should just read Sam Weinberg's "Moneypenny Diaries" Vol III - "Final Fling".

What you are looking for is in that book. And done beautifully.

Got it...thanks!