Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

What if?


16 replies to this topic

#1 TheREAL008

TheREAL008

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1190 posts
  • Location:Brisbane

Posted 08 June 2010 - 08:06 PM

Raymond benson was comissioned to return and write DMC? Would have it been better to some people?

#2 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 08 June 2010 - 08:10 PM

Do you have an opinion on this, Real008?

#3 whiteskwirl

whiteskwirl

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 163 posts
  • Location:Taiwan

Posted 08 June 2010 - 08:21 PM

I don't see how it could be worse. Faulks didn't add anything special to the Bond universe, and I think Benson is better with action scenes. I think Benson would have actually used the ekranoplan.

#4 DAN LIGHTER

DAN LIGHTER

    Lt. Commander

  • Enlisting
  • PipPipPip
  • 1248 posts

Posted 08 June 2010 - 10:00 PM

Raymond benson was comissioned to return and write DMC? Would have it been better to some people?


It might have been better for some and not so for others. Who knows as he didnt write it so we will never know.

#5 TheREAL008

TheREAL008

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1190 posts
  • Location:Brisbane

Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:39 PM

Do you have an opinion on this, Real008?


Given how so many people dislike the novel as it is, I was wondering what people's opinions would be if Raymond was asked to come back and write one final one?

#6 clinkeroo

clinkeroo

    Commander

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Location:Detroit, home of the Purple Gang

Posted 10 June 2010 - 01:23 AM

If he had written DMC, I don't think it would have gone any better. There are inherent flaws with Faulk's cookie-cutter plot which attempted to ape Fleming so severely that it actually became a lampoon. A different authorial voice wouldn't have made much difference. Prose-wise, it would have most likely been worse.

Now, had Benson been allowed to create his own plot, had Benson been allowed to write Bond as a period piece, had Benson been given proper editing and promotion... Alas, we'll never know.

#7 K1Bond007

K1Bond007

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4932 posts
  • Location:Illinois

Posted 10 June 2010 - 03:55 AM

Now, had Benson been allowed to create his own plot, had Benson been allowed to write Bond as a period piece, had Benson been given proper editing and promotion... Alas, we'll never know.


I like Benson, don't get me wrong, but I don't see him at all as a period author. When it comes to Bond I think he's certainly capable, but period pieces is Faulks' strength.

Personally, we've now seen 2 great authors try to follow in Fleming's footsteps (Faulks and Amis) and both came up short. Honestly without an amazing amount of freedom and care, I just don't think anyone could have done a whole lot better than what they did. Deaver has an entirely fresh slate so his offering could really be knocked out of the park.

#8 clinkeroo

clinkeroo

    Commander

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Location:Detroit, home of the Purple Gang

Posted 10 June 2010 - 04:21 AM

Don't get me wrong, I've read all of Faulks up to DMC and am actually quite fond of Birdsong, but his Muse was out to lunch on DMC which wouldn't have been a solid effort regardless of setting. John Gardner was no slouch, either, when it came to non-Bond material.

As far as Amis goes, I'm a huge fan and still think that CS is by far the best of the continuation novels. Too dense to be Fleming, but very, very good.

My point about Benson is, we never had the chance to find out due to the constraints placed on him by Glidrose.

I like Deaver's Lincoln Rhymes novels, but I'm nervous. Reboots tend to work better in film, when it comes to more introspective media like novels, things can become more tricky, and you can loose the essence of the character, or series, easily. Deaver is a smart, talented writer who does his homework, so if anyone can do it...

#9 whiteskwirl

whiteskwirl

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 163 posts
  • Location:Taiwan

Posted 10 June 2010 - 04:36 AM

I like Deaver's Lincoln Rhymes novels, but I'm nervous. Reboots tend to work better in film, when it comes to more introspective media like novels, things can become more tricky, and you can loose the essence of the character, or series, easily. Deaver is a smart, talented writer who does his homework, so if anyone can do it...


At least this time we've got an actual Fleming Bong fan writing it. That will help a lot. Plus, I think we have to be realistic with our expectations. There are going to be differences. We all know it won't be like Fleming, so what is our criteria for judging if Project X is a success? It has to be different from Fleming, so what do we want it to be? A hard question to answer, a question that probably can only be answered by reading Project X. We likely won't really know what we want until we get it (or don't).

#10 Jim

Jim

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 14266 posts
  • Location:Oxfordshire

Posted 10 June 2010 - 07:00 AM

If he had written DMC, I don't think it would have gone any better. There are inherent flaws with Faulk's cookie-cutter plot which attempted to ape Fleming so severely that it actually became a lampoon. A different authorial voice wouldn't have made much difference. Prose-wise, it would have most likely been worse.

Now, had Benson been allowed to create his own plot, had Benson been allowed to write Bond as a period piece, had Benson been given proper editing and promotion... Alas, we'll never know.


Agreed.

#11 Trident

Trident

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2658 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 10 June 2010 - 12:16 PM

What's in a writer's name? DMC, written by any other writer, would smell the same.

#12 Loomis

Loomis

    Commander CMG

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 21862 posts

Posted 10 June 2010 - 12:25 PM

Well, I think the problem may have been that Faulks took the challenge of writing a Bond novel extremely lightly and did only one draft of DEVIL MAY CARE. Had he spent longer on the book, and lavished some love and care on it, it may well have been amazing, even with the exact same story and characters.

And I firmly believe he ought to have gone to Iran instead of doing his research on the net. Not that I'm saying he got his research wrong, but there's no passion in his descriptions of that country. Going there might have fired him up. It would have been neither illegal nor dangerous for him to have gone to Iran, especially as a world-famous millionaire novelist with access to the best hotels and guides. He would have been well looked after. I'm under the impression that Fleming had visited virtually all of the locations he wrote about. (On the other hand, perhaps Faulks refused to visit Iran on moral or human rights grounds.)

#13 David Schofield

David Schofield

    Commander

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3026 posts

Posted 10 June 2010 - 12:43 PM

I doubt is would have made any difference to the overall quality.

The finest complement that I can pay Benson is that for a fanboy writing James Bond fan-fiction, the quality of his work is that of a revered best-selling LITERARY giant in Sebastian Faulks with DMC.

#14 Double-Oh Agent

Double-Oh Agent

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4325 posts

Posted 11 June 2010 - 01:54 AM

If Raymond Benson had had to write Devil May Care as Ian Fleming, the prose would have undoubtedly suffered (already his weak spot, having to write like Fleming would have made it that much worse). However, I believe his plotting of the novel (his undisputed strength) would have remained rock solid. This particular combination of weak prose and solid plot probably would have resulted in Benson's weakest effort as Bond author. Now in comparison to Sebastian Faulks' end result, I think Benson's novel would have probably been a little bit better with his enjoyment of writing about Bond shining through and trumping Faulks' apathy towards 007.

#15 Mr. Blofeld

Mr. Blofeld

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9173 posts
  • Location:North Smithfield, RI, USA

Posted 11 June 2010 - 01:59 AM

What about Christopher Wood? Back in his '77-'79 heyday, do you think he'd have pulled it off?

#16 David Schofield

David Schofield

    Commander

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3026 posts

Posted 11 June 2010 - 07:40 AM

What about Christopher Wood? Back in his '77-'79 heyday, do you think he'd have pulled it off?


If he'd used the tonal effect he used, particularly in "James Bond, the Spy Who Loved Me", I think we'd have felt we'd just discovered a missing Fleming novel.

#17 Double-Oh Agent

Double-Oh Agent

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4325 posts

Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:06 AM

What about Christopher Wood? Back in his '77-'79 heyday, do you think he'd have pulled it off?

He very likely would have pulled off writing as Ian Fleming better than Faulks did or Benson would have and overall probably have given a better novel too.