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DMC/Col. Sun?


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#1 TheREAL008

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 08:23 PM

I'm kinda curious, I haven't really completed DMC but I'm wondering if the novel might come before or possibly after Col. Sun?

Anyone have any ideas/suggestions?

#2 zencat

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 08:40 PM

Pretty sure it takes place after.

#3 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 08:43 PM

I thought it was after The Man with the Golden Gun and Faulks just ignored CS as it wasnt by Fleming. B)

#4 zencat

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 08:53 PM

Maybe you're right. Think DMC is 1967. CS is '68. I don't know. I can't remember. I'm sure the answer is somewhere on the forums.

#5 Righty007

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 09:16 PM

Think DMC is 1967. CS is '68.

That's how I understand it.

#6 terminus

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 09:52 PM

Colonel Sun is first, Devil May Care is second - based on internal evidence from both novels (reposted from a post I made on another board):

Colonel Sun refers to the events of The Man With The Golden Gun as occuring the previous summer, with Colonel Sun itself occuring in September. The Man With The Golden Gun was published in 1965 and Colonel Sun in 1968 - but the events of Colonel Sun must therefore take place in 1966.

Bond says he's only been on two missions in the year that Colonel Sun has taken place - a mission to the USA and an assignment in the Far East, neither of which locations feature in Devil May Care. Devil May Care refers to The Man With The Golden Gun occuring eighteen months before the beginning of Bond's enforced (three month) sabbatical and says that Bond has been pushing paper since his encounter with Scaramanga.

Bond's housekeeper May references the voyages of Sir Francis Chichester (which finished on 28th May 1967) as having been completed during Bond's three month sabbatical.


1965 - TMWTGG

September 1966 - Colonel Sun (TMWTGG occured the 'previous Summer')

c. June 1967 - Devil May Care (TMWTGG occured 'eighteen months' before Bond's three month sabbatical and DMC occurs after the conclusion of Chichester's Gypsy Moth voyage)

#7 zencat

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 09:58 PM

See, I knew the answer was on the forums. Nice work, terminus. B)

#8 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:01 PM

Maybe the media got it wrong. Accoring to the Guardian, Devil May Care is set in 1967, 21 months after the events of The Man with the Golden Gun.


http://www.guardian....sebastianfaulks




From forbes.com
http://webcache.goog...r...=clnk&gl=uk
Faulks sets his Bond story in 1967, after the events of The Man With the Golden Gun.

#9 zencat

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:04 PM

I trust us. Think the Guardian is looking as closely as we are?

#10 terminus

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:07 PM

Maybe the media got it wrong. Accoring to the Guardian, Devil May Care is set in 1967, 21 months after the events of The Man with the Golden Gun.


http://www.guardian....sebastianfaulks


But that actually works with what I described above - if the three month sabbatical (which concludes in DMC) begins eighteen months after TMWTGG then DMC takes place twenty one months after TMWTGG.

#11 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:11 PM

No not at all Zen, It just looks like that was the line given to the Media from the publishers . I would imagine that was because Faulks was writing as Ian Fleming.

Maybe the media got it wrong. Accoring to the Guardian, Devil May Care is set in 1967, 21 months after the events of The Man with the Golden Gun.


http://www.guardian....sebastianfaulks


But that actually works with what I described above - if the three month sabbatical (which concludes in DMC) begins eighteen months after TMWTGG then DMC takes place twenty one months after TMWTGG.


Does Devil May Care make any referance to Colonel Sun?

#12 AMC Hornet

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:13 PM

DMC is supposed to come directly after TMWTGG, and there's supposed to be some question about whether M will deem 007 fit to continue.

I don't think Faulks even read Col. Sun. There is a reference in the first paragraph about Bond having no lingering discomfort "from the area where, last summer, Scaramanga's Derringer slug had torn through his abdomen."

Yet, on page 23 of DMC, "After the business with Scaramanga in Jamaica, Bond had spent eighteen months - it seemed longer - pushing paper round his desk before M despatched him on his "make or break" sabbatical, after which he alone was to decide whether Bond would ever return to active duty." No mention of Bond saving M's crochety old butt in Greece in the interim.

Since Bond's return to service was already a foregone conclusion, why bother with this? DMC should occur after the events in CS, not before. But certain events, like the presence of the Mark Twain sternwheeler in Paris, make the year 1967. So Faulks has added a year to the timeline and shoehorned his story in before Amis (Markham)'s.

On the other hand, Bond should have already been invalidated out of active service at age 45, so who's complaining? (John Pearson makes Bond's birth year 1920, although Tiger Tanaka told Bond he was born in the Year of the Rat, which means either 1912 (right for Casino Royale) or 1924 (right for YOLT).

#13 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:17 PM

DMC is supposed to come directly after TMWTGG, and there's supposed to be some question about whether M will deem 007 fit to continue.

I don't think Faulks even read Col. Sun. There is a reference in the first paragraph about Bond having no lingering discomfort "from the area where, last summer, Scaramanga's Derringer slug had torn through his abdomen."

Yet, on page 23 of DMC, "After the business with Scaramanga in Jamaica, Bond had spent eighteen months - it seemed longer - pushing paper round his desk before M despatched him on his "make or break" sabbatical, after which he alone was to decide whether Bond would ever return to active duty." No mention of Bond saving M's crochety old butt in Greece in the interim.

Since Bond's return to service was already a foregone conclusion, why bother with this? DMC should occur after the events in CS, not before. But certain events, like the presence of the Mark Twain sternwheeler in Paris, make the year 1967. So Faulks has added a year to the timeline and shoehorned his story in before Amis (Markham)'s.

On the other hand, Bond should have already been invalidated out of active service at age 45, so who's complaining? (John Pearson makes Bond's birth year 1920, although Tiger Tanaka told Bond he was born in the Year of the Rat, which means either 1912 (right for Casino Royale) or 1924 (right for YOLT).


Thanks for looking in it. I dont think Faulks would have read CS, his brief was to write a Bond book as Ian Fleming.

#14 terminus

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:22 PM

DMC is supposed to come directly after TMWTGG, and there's supposed to be some question about whether M will deem 007 fit to continue.

I don't think Faulks even read Col. Sun. There is a reference in the first paragraph about Bond having no lingering discomfort "from the area where, last summer, Scaramanga's Derringer slug had torn through his abdomen."

Yet, on page 23 of DMC, "After the business with Scaramanga in Jamaica, Bond had spent eighteen months - it seemed longer - pushing paper round his desk before M despatched him on his "make or break" sabbatical, after which he alone was to decide whether Bond would ever return to active duty." No mention of Bond saving M's crochety old butt in Greece in the interim.


Yup - the only real hiccup is the suggestion that Bond had spent eighteen months pushing paper since TMWTGG. Colonel Sun suggests two missions to the USA and the Far East occuring between TMWTGG and CS - but DMC makes no mention of anything outside of DMC and suggests no missions.

The only real argument, I'll admit, are the references to when stories are supposed to take place.

#15 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:29 PM

Cant find any comment by Faulks about CS. Shame as we will never know that one from his point a view. If you went to a book signing and asked him I think security would eject you. B)

Book order was discussed in the below thread.

http://debrief.comma...;hl=DAN LIGHTER

#16 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:31 AM

Definitely Colonel Sun first followed by Devil May Care.

Everything points that way except for the 18-month paper-pushing stint. Colonel Sun is set a few months after The Man With The Golden Gun (1965/66) while Devil May Care is clearly over a year after TMWTGG (1967). That's all you need to know. Sebastian Faulks is incorrect about the 18-month paper-pushing stint, either by ignorance or apathy, but incorrect nonetheless.

#17 David Schofield

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 08:06 AM

I have simply resolved the example of Faulksian balls up thus:

In my copy of DMC, where it reads: "After the business with Scaramanga in Jamaica, Bond had spent eighteen months - it seemed longer - pushing paper round his desk before M despatched him on his "make or break" sabbatical, after which he alone was to decide whether Bond would ever return to active duty." - I have simply penciled out the words "Scaramanga" and "Jamaica" and replaced them with COLONEL SUN and GREECE.

Simple.

Oh, did I mention that TMWTGG takes places in 1964, not 1965? B)

(Bond marries 1/1/1962; he disappears in Oct 1962 in Japan and reappears in London Nov 1963; he arrives in Jamaica early 1964).

CS therefore takes place in 1965.

DMC is deffo 1967 as the Chichester and Stones arrest testify.

:tdown:

Sad, David. Very sad?

#18 TheREAL008

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 08:44 PM

this is all very confusing.

#19 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 09:50 PM

I just burst out laughing at Schofield's last post; well done, Davey, well done. B)

#20 David Schofield

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:00 AM

I just burst out laughing at Schofield's last post; well done, Davey, well done. B)


Always glad to educate AND bring a little sunshine in to people's lives, Blowers, old mate. :tdown:

#21 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:09 AM

I have simply resolved the example of Faulksian balls up thus:

In my copy of DMC, where it reads: "After the business with Scaramanga in Jamaica, Bond had spent eighteen months - it seemed longer - pushing paper round his desk before M despatched him on his "make or break" sabbatical, after which he alone was to decide whether Bond would ever return to active duty." - I have simply penciled out the words "Scaramanga" and "Jamaica" and replaced them with COLONEL SUN and GREECE.

Simple.

Oh, did I mention that TMWTGG takes places in 1964, not 1965? :tdown:

(Bond marries 1/1/1962; he disappears in Oct 1962 in Japan and reappears in London Nov 1963; he arrives in Jamaica early 1964).

CS therefore takes place in 1965.

DMC is deffo 1967 as the Chichester and Stones arrest testify.

You are absolutely correct. Well done. B)

#22 TheREAL008

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 12:10 AM

Another question: Does DMC feel or even read like it's Bond's final mission?

#23 AMC Hornet

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 02:47 AM

No. It doesn't even read like it can be. How could it?

#24 TheREAL008

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 01:24 AM

Only wondered.

#25 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 06:48 PM

Another question: Does DMC feel or even read like it's Bond's final mission?



No. It doesn't even read like it can be. How could it?



Only wondered.


That made me laugh. It did read a little blunt Hornet.

#26 0077

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 08:07 PM

Looking forward to the continuation novel in 1966 where Bond is doing nothing but menial duties and paperwork, THAT should fill all the gaps perfectly.




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