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Future Bond composer ideas


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#31 The Shark

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:35 AM

- James Newton Howard (works regularly wonders for the Shyamalan films)
- John Powell (Bourne Identity and Paycheck are very good for example)
- Trevor Morris (only heard The Tudors OST, but that was really good)


These three choices are symptomatic of the steep decline in modern film composition. Next thing somebody will say Tyler Bates should score the next Bond movie.

Michael Giacchino is another bad choice too. Giacchino, and his Lalo Schifrin pastiche - for the Incredibles, was ultimately clichéd and boring.

Edited by The Shark, 06 October 2009 - 01:39 AM.


#32 Zorin Industries

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:37 AM

Thank you.

There are far too many composers wanting to sound like composers nowadays - and most don't have a clue about who their idols were referencing and influenced by.

"I know - let's choose him for the next Bond film... there was three seconds of a piece he did for TRANSFORMERS 9 that sounds Bondian"...
It don't work like that.

#33 Martini

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:29 PM

I know by whom my idols were influenced by, but unfortunately most of these guys are dead or in their eighties. So what do you suggest? Cloning them?

Sorry, but your two opinions are symtomatic of the steep decline of the discussion culture in this forum.

#34 Zorin Industries

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:56 PM

I know by whom my idols were influenced by, but unfortunately most of these guys are dead or in their eighties. So what do you suggest? Cloning them?

Sorry, but your two opinions are symtomatic of the steep decline of the discussion culture in this forum.

The "discussion culture" on these forums is always on a knife-edge at best. I am merely responding to people throwing in names for composers, actors, directors and singers based on nothing apart from they either are a bit "Bondian", or look or sound a bit Bond here and there in something else. Yes, people can throw their faves into discussion, but should we not be casting our thoughts a little wider than, say, Michael Giacchino who is a competent tunesmith but completely reliant on apeing other people's works. We should be suggesting a composer to kick the sound of Bond in its behind - not keep emulating everything that went before, no?

And there are a great many bland composers out there (Nicholas Hooper) who ape the likes of - for example - John Williams. But they do so without understanding the structure and influences on Williams work - something that is vital in understanding why his scores work and others don't. So Giacchino does a solid STAR TREK 2009 score granted, but turns into a soundbite tapestry of sounds that sound like a film fan flicking through ten second bursts of their favourite scores. Just my thoughts, that's all...

So offering a bit of reality beyond the opinions gleaned from IGN and Empire Online are tantamount to a slide in discussion then...?

I'm not so sure Eric Sera's work should be held up as something to return to.

So sue me, but I like it. I don't think it should have been a mainstay, but it was nice to see a composer come in and do something very different. I'd like to see that happen again.

You won't see Eric Sera anywhere near a Bond film ever again. Call it an informed hunch....

#35 MattofSteel

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 02:31 PM

I assume Arnold will continue well into his 80s, delivering the scores for the next 15 Bond films. B) Nothing would make me happier.

I don't think fans realize what we have in the guy.

As for the next one, who knows. Outside of the tenured composers (Barry, Arnold), individual choices in the history of the franchise have been precariously hit-and-miss.

#36 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 04:08 PM

I assume Arnold will continue well into his 80s, delivering the scores for the next 15 Bond films. B) Nothing would make me happier.

I don't think fans realize what we have in the guy.

As for the next one, who knows. Outside of the tenured composers (Barry, Arnold), individual choices in the history of the franchise have been precariously hit-and-miss.


I actually like Arnold and his way of incorporating traditional Barry-elements in his scores (the "Vesper" theme is very beautiful IMO). But even during Barry´s tenure I loved the other composers´ works for Bond, certainly George Martin´s LALD score. So, why not give others a chance as well?

While I do love James Newton Howard, by the way, (a very accomplished composer who is way better and more versatile than Powell or Gregson-Williams IMO), I do think others would be more interesting for Bond.

I don´t really know about David Holmes - his OCEAN´S scores were a bit repetitive for my ears - does he do another style than his kind of jazz? Please enlighten me on this.

And again I would suggest Alexandre Desplat. He can write marvelous tunes and do action without the usual synthesizer droning.

#37 mister-white

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 04:46 PM

Michael Giacchino is another bad choice too. Giacchino, and his Lalo Schifrin pastiche - for the Incredibles, was ultimately clichéd and boring.


On the contrary, Giacchino is really my only choice for a future Bond score. Been a huge fan of his work since The Incredibles, which was to say... incredible. Ratatouille and Up are beyond standard animated fare, Mission: Impossible, Speed Racer and Star Trek all had the best arrangements of those series' themes, but weren't over used and the new music he composed, especially for Star Trek, standout on their own and yet feel part of the film and the series (can't tell you how much I have 'Enterprising Young Men' stuck in my head). So, Michael Giacchino is really the only name I'll go with.

#38 The Shark

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 04:59 PM

I assume Arnold will continue well into his 80s, delivering the scores for the next 15 Bond films. smile.gif Nothing would make me happier.


About as a bad as hiring Tamahori again for a run of Bond films. Surely there are more humane forms of sadomasochism?

#39 MattofSteel

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:31 PM

Michael Giacchino is another bad choice too. Giacchino, and his Lalo Schifrin pastiche - for the Incredibles, was ultimately clichéd and boring.


On the contrary, Giacchino is really my only choice for a future Bond score. Been a huge fan of his work since The Incredibles, which was to say... incredible. Ratatouille and Up are beyond standard animated fare, Mission: Impossible, Speed Racer and Star Trek all had the best arrangements of those series' themes, but weren't over used and the new music he composed, especially for Star Trek, standout on their own and yet feel part of the film and the series (can't tell you how much I have 'Enterprising Young Men' stuck in my head). So, Michael Giacchino is really the only name I'll go with.


I quite like Giacchino's work in a sort of 'spotty' manner. "Enterprising Young Men" is indeed a phenomenal track. That score worked really appropriately for a Star Trek movie. But outside of notable sections, he's decidedly unmemorable and promotes this kind of "sonic chaos" approach many modern composers seem to take.

Whereas with Arnold, I can probably hum ever bar of every score he's written for Bond. And not because of overuse, but because it's memorable and highlights the narrative.

Not saying Giacchino NEVER does it (b/c he does, IE attack on the Kelvin), but Arnold does it better, IMO B)


I assume Arnold will continue well into his 80s, delivering the scores for the next 15 Bond films. smile.gif Nothing would make me happier.


About as a bad as hiring Tamahori again for a run of Bond films. Surely there are more humane forms of sadomasochism?


Ah, so you're one of those then....

And I pose the standard question: When you picture in your mind, "ideal" Bond music - what exactly do you hear? And if the answer is anything remotely resembling John Barry's approach, then a subsequent question is necessary: How exactly does Arnold differ so greatly and what, exactly, makes his work such an atrocity?

(brief disclaimer - in no universe would I defend Arnold in comparison with Barry HIMSELF, this is more general regarding approach).

#40 The Shark

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:57 PM

Ah, so you're one of those then....


I guess I'm an Arnold sceptic.

And I pose the standard question: When you picture in your mind, "ideal" Bond music - what exactly do you hear? And if the answer is anything remotely resembling John Barry's approach, then a subsequent question is necessary: How exactly does Arnold differ so greatly and what, exactly, makes his work such an atrocity?


My ideal Bond music would be a cross between Barry and Stravinsky/Moussorgsky/Debussy/Shostakovitch/Rimsky-Korsakov and Ravel. Sort of early 20th Century to late 19th Century classical. Raw, barbaric, sensual, erotic, mysterious and powerful. Basically an amalgamation of that with John Barry's brand of cool jazz which took hold in the mid 20th Century. Barry himself was greatly influenced by many of these composers through his orchestration and technique, so it's not much of a stretch, along with Jazz which owed a great debt to classical modernism.
All in all would be almost entirely orchestral based, with practically no synthesisers (maybe with the occasional one here and there). No synth beats for percussion, just 1 Bass Drum, 5 Timpani, gong, tam tam, cymbals, snare drum, bongos, glockenspiel etc... Very large orchestra, lots of rare instruments - i.e. contrabass clarinets, alto flutes, conch shells etc....

Where Arnold falls short considerably is that the synth beats most often don't work, and it almost feels like he programs the beat first then writes traces of repetitive string ostinatos and brass stabs around it. A sort of laziness of scoring, where one sits at a MIDI keyboard within seriously planning ahead on the overall conception, as one does when writing on sheet music.
This leads to derivative melodies, and obligatory harmonies that seem taken from various better composed sources from the past that he probably doesn't even know their history).

Personally I think Arnold should do a Vangelis and stick mainly to synthesisers, since that's where his natural talent is. When he tries to compose a mainly orchestral Bond score the electronics come back, and often their better thought out than his orchestral stuff.

His scores are far from atrocities even if I might talk about them as they were. They're mostly workmanlike and efficient scores, but then that is all the film industry really cares about film composition these days. I'm more irritating by someone saying Arnold needs to stay. What about some new talent and imagination? What's wrong with thinking outside of the box?

Cheers

The Shark.

#41 MattofSteel

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:58 PM

That's quite a specific idea you've got there. Can't say I disagree with some of it. But for obvious reason's it's not likely to happen B), so I'm happy with Arnold in the interim.

And there's certainly nothing wrong with thinking outside the box. I just have a tendency to defend Arnold against the very undeserved criticism I feel he tends to receive for doing a very admirable job.

#42 Harmsway

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 04:26 PM

We should be suggesting a composer to kick the sound of Bond in its behind - not keep emulating everything that went before, no?

Indeed.

I'm not so sure Eric Sera's work should be held up as something to return to.

So sue me, but I like it. I don't think it should have been a mainstay, but it was nice to see a composer come in and do something very different. I'd like to see that happen again.

You won't see Eric Sera anywhere near a Bond film ever again. Call it an informed hunch....

Of course we won't. That's taken for granted. I'm just saying that I respect the spirit of experimentation with the "Bond sound" that Eric Serra represented, and I would be open to such a departure again (albeit not one in the particular direction Serra demonstrated).

#43 tim partridge

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 05:01 PM

I think to some degree the choice of director can make a huge impact on the music, regardless of who the composer is by name.

I think the sound and style of music that Marc Forster got out of David Arnold for QOS was really something else. I think it actually spoke mood, tension and characterisation in a way I don't think any of the other Bond scores after GoldenEye have managed to do. It really felt woven into the visuals in such a sophisticated, thoughtful but uniform and sometimes experimental fashion, and wasn't just the standard mixture of electronics and wailing brass that Arnold has seemed to lean towards previously. I felt it was more of a musical continuation of STAY and STRANGER THAN FICTION rather than DIE ANOTHER DAY and TWINE. I didn't think it was possible for a composer to "change their tune" so literally.

#44 Harmsway

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 05:17 PM

I think to some degree the choice of director can make a huge impact on the music, regardless of who the composer is by name.

It's true.

I think the sound and style of music that Marc Forster got out of David Arnold for QOS was really something else. I think it actually spoke mood, tension and characterisation in a way I don't think any of the other Bond scores after GoldenEye have managed to do. It really felt woven into the visuals in such a sophisticated, thoughtful but uniform and sometimes experimental fashion, and wasn't just the standard mixture of electronics and wailing brass that Arnold has seemed to lean towards previously.

I like it and all ("Night at the Opera" is perhaps my favorite Arnold cue), but most of the score remains pretty bland. QUANTUM OF SOLACE may have had the best of the scores post-GOLDENEYE (which isn't saying that much), but as far as the entire realm of film score music is concerned (or even the legacy of Bond music itself), Arnold's work on QUANTUM OF SOLACE never offered anything too striking or impressive.

But if your point isn't necessarily that QUANTUM OF SOLACE had a great score, but rather that it marked a departure for Arnold (a departure not just from style, but towards greater sophistication), then I agree, and it's largely due to Forster's influence. I don't think the departure was enough, though, and I'd rather see a new composer.

#45 darthbond

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 09:27 PM

I just thought of an inspired choice. Our own Rich Douglas!

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#46 photographer

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 03:38 PM

An other name which could be thrown in the hat is Shaun Davey.
I like his composition for "The Tailor of Panama". It is a good old melodic school score.

#47 Tybre

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 07:50 PM

I just thought of an inspired choice. Our own Rich Douglas!

darthbond


Yes please.

#48 Zorin Industries

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 09:48 AM

I just thought of an inspired choice. Our own Rich Douglas!

darthbond

Not for me I'm afraid.

#49 The Shark

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 01:17 AM

I just thought of an inspired choice. Our own Rich Douglas!

darthbond

Not for me I'm afraid.


Same. I like Rich's stuff though, however they work better with a game or something that draws your focus more, and he knows it too.

Edited by The Shark, 16 October 2009 - 01:19 AM.


#50 00Twelve

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 02:26 AM

Yes, people can throw their faves into discussion, but should we not be casting our thoughts a little wider than, say, Michael Giacchino who is a competent tunesmith but completely reliant on apeing other people's works. We should be suggesting a composer to kick the sound of Bond in its behind - not keep emulating everything that went before, no?

Interesting. I've liked Giacchino's work on THE INCREDIBLES and LOST, but this makes me wonder about the originality. The former is obviously a deliberate homage to Barry and the latter is a rather obvious homage to Herrmann IMO. I still like his work, but I don't think there'd be any point in his tackling Bond.

Besides, David Holmes would have always been a better choice to me. The only composer I could wish for even more than him is Lalo Schifrin and, well, that's not happening.

#51 doubler83

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 05:41 PM

John Murphy.

#52 The Shark

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 05:51 PM

John Murphy.


Boring, banal, repetitive.

#53 doubler83

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 06:07 PM

Ouch! B) :tdown:

#54 The Shark

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 06:16 PM

Ouch! B) :tdown:


Hey - couldn't help it. :tdown:

#55 NVT

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 05:22 PM

Craig Armstrong or is he too 90's for some people?
He can blend classic with a modern beat.

Remember Rise or Escape?

#56 PotterBond007

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 06:28 AM

Don Davis, perhaps? Though his Matrix music is a bit intense and somewhat dissonant. Who knows, though.

If he were still alive, I'd definitely say Jerry Goldsmith. He has some good stuff out there.

Or perhaps John Debney? Sean Callery the 24 guy, is good too.

#57 The Shark

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:28 PM

Though his Matrix music is a bit intense and somewhat dissonant.


That's one of the things that made Barry's early scores so great. We need to bring the dissonance back into Bond.

#58 PotterBond007

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:34 AM

Another person I've found with good music is Kerry Muzzey. If not for the movie itself, maybe they can get him to write the music for the trailer.

#59 The Shark

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:51 AM

From what I've heard he sounds more suited to a fantasy/epic trailer, not for a Bond trailer or film.

Keep bringing in ideas though!

#60 Tybre

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 11:54 AM

I assume we're limited to Western composers? 'cause I can think of two Japanese composers who might be good for Bond. Might. Could go either way really.