40 replies to this topic

[The Shark]

Exactly. Too many cooks, etc. Same problem with GoldenEye. Both films have always underwhelmed me.

Except you can't say GOLDENEYE is a genuine rip-off of a previous Bond film. For all its flaws, it's highly original for the series.

[Dustin]

I liked TSWLM rather a lot as a kid. But after learning about the different approaches and possibilities I can't help but wondering what it could have been. Although that could have turned out rather disastrous - if I think about a stripping Queen for example. Some bits seem massively ahead of their time, as if the intention had been to push self-parody to the limits and beyond. And Bond hiding behind a cross reminds me of Django who's pulling his own coffin. Some way out ideas there.

Exactly. Too many cooks, etc. Same problem with GoldenEye. Both films have always underwhelmed me.

Except you can't say GOLDENEYE is a genuine rip-off of a previous Bond film. For all its flaws, it's highly original for the series.

It is maybe the first reboot without ever admitting it. GE without Desmond Llewelyn would have looked and felt like a completely new - and different - series.

[glidrose]

Exactly. Too many cooks, etc. Same problem with GoldenEye. Both films have always underwhelmed me.

Except you can't say GOLDENEYE is a genuine rip-off of a previous Bond film. For all its flaws, it's highly original for the series.

In that it attempts to do absolutely nothing. It feels like a 90 minute talk-fest that somehow manages to last 130 minutes. At least TSWLM has some pictorial beauty and interesting ideas.

Let me quote moderator Jim on that insignificant piece of piffle also known as GE: "nothing much actually happens and then it ends."

[Dustin]

Can't say I entirely agree. A lot of stuff happens, only it's happening off-screen.

Bond suddenly has a buddy amongst the 00s. He apparently has worked frequently with this guy, and, according to 006, they've shared practically everything. Never before have we heard of Trevelyan, never seen a single of their numerous operations by which the two buddies supposedly toppled all those governments. Bond in GE has got a decidedly different service career.

OK, he still seems somewhat troubled, at least that's what his former friend Trevelyan thinks. Because 006 suspects the martinis are a tool to drown out the voices of past victims and women Bond failed to rescue. It's just strange that this close friend of former, better days is obviously completely ignorant of Bond's greatest loss; Tracy isn't mentioned with a single syllable. This Bond wasn't married and probably never thought about the possibility.

I sometimes wonder if the script wouldn't have profited from not making 006 a friend of Bond. Trevelyan should have been a henchman who defected out of love to the real villain - Onatop. But then we'd have gotten TWINE, only a few years earlier.

[The Shark]

At least TSWLM has some pictorial beauty and interesting ideas.

Interesting ideas? Like Bond wanting to bone a Russian KGB babe, or a villain hellbent on nuclear Armageddon so he can he cleanse the earth, and setup an undersea community?

Re: the film's look. I've never Claude Renoir's washed out cinetraophy that visually appealing. I thought it was bettered by Jean Tournier's stunning work on MOONRAKER (that feels less dated and mid/late 70s) and Phil Meheux's lensing on GOLDENEYE (especially the stuff in Monte Carlo and Cuba).

[glidrose]

At least TSWLM has some pictorial beauty and interesting ideas.

Interesting ideas? Like Bond wanting to bone a Russian KGB babe, or a villain hellbent on nuclear Armageddon so he can he cleanse the earth, and setup an undersea community?

Interesting ideas? Let's see.

1. Jaws
2. Bond killed Anya's lover and we await her discovery and reaction
3. Ken Adam's Leparus and Atlantis sets
4. Stromberg's misguided ecological bent; the filmmakers were ahead of their time here

I'm sure there are other ideas, however I admit that the film when first released was the series' most derivative entry.

Re: the film's look. I've never Claude Renoir's washed out cinetraophy that visually appealing. I thought it was bettered by Jean Tournier's stunning work on MOONRAKER (that feels less dated and mid/late 70s) and Phil Meheux's lensing on GOLDENEYE (especially the stuff in Monte Carlo and Cuba).

I should be a smart and ask what "cinetraophy" is but I won't. Yes, of course Tournier did a vastly superior job on MR. Count me among those who are still happy that Renoir did not shoot MR. However, not for a second do I consider Meheux's work on GE any good. GE is so bland and seems to have been shot with excess safe areas for television viewing. Sight and Sound magazine picked up on this in their review of the film.

Like you, for many years I despised Renoir's work on TSWLM on the basis of washed-out tv and video prints seen on a CRT tv. Further, this is a film that suffers greatly from pan and scan. Renoir framed his shots to take advantage of widescreen and that is the only way this film can be seen and enjoyed. The colour grading is much better on the restored DVD releases when seen on a HD tv set. All is not perfect though: there's too much edge-enhancement early on and the skin tones are at times a bit too ruddy. However, the Sardinian sequences have a pleasant muted marine quality like I've never seen before that vaguely resemble JMW Turner's paintings. The Leparus battle though is glossy and saturated with colour. The train sequence is the only part of the film that still looks terrible. Despite my seeming enthusiasm I'm still mixed about Renoir's work on the film. I do think Jean Tounier would have done a much better job.

[The Shark]

At least TSWLM has some pictorial beauty and interesting ideas.

Interesting ideas? Like Bond wanting to bone a Russian KGB babe, or a villain hellbent on nuclear Armageddon so he can he cleanse the earth, and setup an undersea community?

Interesting ideas? Let's see.

1. Jaws
2. Bond killed Anya's lover and we await her discovery and reaction
3. Ken Adam's Leparus and Atlantis sets
4. Stromberg's misguided ecological bent; the filmmakers were ahead of their time here

Fair enough, but I also count several in GOLDENEYE:

1. Former 00 who holds Bond responsible for a betrayal of trust resulting in facial scarring, now leader of an international crime syndicate.
2. Female M
3. Hackers, satellites, and EMPs.
4. Bond girl who was a witness to a massacre. Not a crossbow-wielding avenging angel, but instead a (ablate incredibly hot) computer geek.
5. The theme of the old icons of Soviet and Imperial Russia being torn down by Bond (in the tank chase) and the scantily clad girls in the title sequence.
6. A bitter Russian Mafia boss as an ally.

However, not for a second do I consider Meheux's work on GE any good. GE is so bland and seems to have been shot with excess safe areas for television viewing.

I used think that too, before I watched it a couple of years ago upscaled on an HDTV and Blu-ray player. I've come to the conclusion that it's one of the best shot films in the franchise, right up there with Freddie Young, Michael Reed and Jean Tournier's work. The cuba scenes show it off well enough, but the chiascuro tones in the Monte Carlo casino, the outdoor mime act, the Our Lady Of Smolensk Church, trane interior, St. Peterburg meeting room, and statue graveyard all look prety stunning.

P.S. gildrose: Bond and Beyond needs you!

[Colossus]

Well I lie Spy.

[glidrose]

Well I lie Spy.

Fantastic rhyme. Or did you mean to say that you liKe Spy?

Edited by glidrose, 08 July 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[THX-007]

I would be interested to read Landis script. Or his ideas anyway.

The result of Landis' script was this =)

[Colossus]

Well I lie Spy.

Fantastic rhyme. Or did you mean to say that you liKe Spy?

LOl yes.