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Quantum Questions


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#31 Jim

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 02:18 PM

The loss of a significant insider in whasshisface what gets shot by Bond.


Quoting onesself - the act of a stinker. However, it's a nice day and I'm out in the garden watching deadlines fly by, so...

On this one, something nags at me. If Mr White had not been captured, presumably The Traitor Bloke would have continued to bodyguard M. Nothing to suggest he was going to try to kill her that day or make his move.

Accordingly, his actions must be either a ) an attempt to rescue Mr White or b ) (more dramatically pleasing, albeit no chase) an attempt to kill Mr White then kill himself (be it gun to the head or "suicide by Bond").

If a ) this is a bit of a flawed plan, as plans go, because he'd have to pretty much kill everyone and there are more of them than him. Also, he runs off. As a rescue attempt it seems a bit ill-thought-through.

Additionally, if a ), then it does rely on Mr White being in a fit state to be rescued (and how he gets out and no-one spots a limping man with a shot knee wandering around Siena is a bit... um...).

Ah well, perhaps it was time for a chase. There'd been about three seconds of dialogue.

I do rather like b ) as an idea though. Is The Traitor Bloke trying to kill Mr White?

#32 David Schofield

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 02:39 PM

But does anybody know why Mitchell holsters his gun and legs it when he has a clear shot at Bond?

Bang. Dead. Finished. Movie over.

Or is it part of Mr White's plan to "HAVE you too?"

#33 Auric64

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:24 PM

And, in my view, Loomis is absolutely right, but this has been a flaw of Bond movies going back to YOLT when M (and Moneypenny!) meet Bond on a submarine off the coast of Hong Kong and contines throughout the other actor's tenure, particularly in the Moore movies.


I think YOLT is the only time M being abroad works, because Bond`s "funeral" was at sea and therefore M had to be aboard the submarine because this is where Bond was taken to, to be briefed by his boss.

Neither Bond or M could be seen together, in public, (either in London or elsewhere) otherwise what would have been the point of Bond being "killed" in the PTS? The whole point was to tell his enemies that he was dead. This wouldn`t have worked had someone seen Bond and M together, somewhere.

Best

Andy

#34 Judo chop

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:24 PM

Is The Traitor Bloke trying to kill Mr White?

Perhaps it starts out as a rescue plan, but then he mistakenly shoots Mr. White and figures, “Well, now I’m really screwed… I just shot my boss”. So he runs hoping to, at best, spend the rest of his days hiding out in Siena.

In seriousness, I think it was always meant to be a rescue plan. Perhaps Mitchell figures the best chance of getting White out of there is to lure Bond away, so he makes a sacrifice play and Bond bites the bait.

It's not a very well thought out plan, but then how much time did they have to think it through? Bond shows up at White's, nabs him... takes him for a drive... any communications must have been made, not by White (assuming Bond didn't through White's cellphone in the trunk with White), but by those guards chasing after White. If Mitchell gets an update on the situation at all, it'd have been a last minute update, and probably a vague and/or distorted one at that.

So, they made the best of it. Mitchell silently kills off a guard (not a bad start), and waits for White to give him the sign, then pray for the best.

#35 Jim

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:31 PM

Is The Traitor Bloke trying to kill Mr White?

Perhaps it starts out as a rescue plan, but then he mistakenly shoots Mr. White and figures, “Well, now I’m really screwed… I just shot my boss”. So he runs hoping to, at best, spend the rest of his days hiding out in Siena.

In seriousness, I think it was always meant to be a rescue plan. Perhaps Mitchell figures the best chance of getting White out of there is to lure Bond away, so he makes a sacrifice play and Bond bites the bait.

It's not a very well thought out plan, but then how much time did they have to think it through? Bond shows up at White's, nabs him... takes him for a drive... any communications must have been made, not by White (assuming Bond didn't through White's cellphone in the trunk with White), but by those guards chasing after White. If Mitchell gets an update on the situation at all, it'd have been a last minute update, and probably a vague and/or distorted one at that.

So, they made the best of it. Mitchell silently kills off a guard (not a bad start), and waits for White to give him the sign, then pray for the best.


I suspect all that's "true" (insofar as Quantum of Solace is fact, which it obviously is) and we're picking apart something that was never intended to be picked apart...

...but I still like the idea that Traitor was actually trying to kill White to stop him talking (or laughing in that really distracting way of his). This adds a dimension, I feel.

Doesn't explain how White can end up back in the fold at the Opera but sod it.

#36 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:58 PM

It's not a very well thought out plan, but then how much time did they have to think it through? Bond shows up at White's, nabs him... takes him for a drive... any communications must have been made, not by White (assuming Bond didn't through White's cellphone in the trunk with White), but by those guards chasing after White. If Mitchell gets an update on the situation at all, it'd have been a last minute update, and probably a vague and/or distorted one at that.

For some reason, I can imagine them sitting in their cars, on a coffee break, by the side of the road and suddenly spitting out their coffee in shock as they see Bond driving by their spot, with the man they're supposed to be guarding screaming from inside the boot of the car. :tdown:

Anyhow, didn't Bond say that a team had probably rescued White after everyone had either been shot or left? I'm assuming Mitchell killed the guard, then messaged the rescue team to tell them he was going to try a distraction... then deleted it, perfectly explaining why it's never recovered off of Mitchell's phone. B)

#37 Mister Asterix

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 04:20 PM

3. Who builds a luxury hotel in the middle of the desert?


Bugsy Siegel

#38 MajorB

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 04:57 PM

For some reason, I can imagine them sitting in their cars, on a coffee break, by the side of the road and suddenly spitting out their coffee in shock as they see Bond driving by their spot, with the man they're supposed to be guarding screaming from inside the boot of the car. B)

That's really funny. And the camera would be undercranked so that they frantically race to their cars in fast motion....

#39 Judo chop

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 05:01 PM

...but I still like the idea that Traitor was actually trying to kill White to stop him talking (or laughing in that really distracting way of his). This adds a dimension, I feel.

It is interesting, Jim. It is quite interesting and multi-dimensional. I can play.

Does White then believe that he is to be rescued, or does he give the nod to Mitchell knowing the bullet is for him?

“The first thing you should know about us, is that we have people everywhere. We have too many people right here in this room, as a matter of fact! How can we, in good conscience, call ourselves QUANTUM, when we are seemingly so obsessed with excess? AND redundancy??

Mitchell! Remove me from this room and this earth, please.”

<gives the sign>

#40 MHazard

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:45 PM

This thread has raised a more interesting question then the one I started with. My suggestion: Quantum knows Greene only escaped because he sold out info to Bond whereas they know White only escaped because they rescued him. It is also clear that White is smarter than Greene as he is the only one who stays in his seat at the opera when everyone else runs away and thus can be identified. So maybe White is just able to talk his way out of trouble more easily. It's also possible of course, that he's the Boss. (But I still can't help wondering if the boss of Quantum isn''t actually named Ernst Stavro...)

#41 Tybre

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:14 PM

This thread has raised a more interesting question then the one I started with. My suggestion: Quantum knows Greene only escaped because he sold out info to Bond whereas they know White only escaped because they rescued him. It is also clear that White is smarter than Greene as he is the only one who stays in his seat at the opera when everyone else runs away and thus can be identified. So maybe White is just able to talk his way out of trouble more easily. It's also possible of course, that he's the Boss. (But I still can't help wondering if the boss of Quantum isn''t actually named Ernst Stavro...)


God I hope Blofeld isn't the head of Quantum. Not that I dislike Blofeld. But considering Quantum was created to act as a replacement for SMERSH...Blofeld as head of SMERSH just does not work, films or novels. I know, I know, it's a reboot and it's certainly possible, but still, it just bothers me.

Edit:

And I doubt White is the head of Quantum. Granted the scene was cut so it's canonicity can be debated, there is a scene in which Bond shows up at Haines' estate. Haines is supposed to be White's superior.

Edited by Tybre, 21 April 2009 - 09:17 PM.


#42 MHazard

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:39 PM

Although Quantum certainly fulfilled the role that Smersh had in the novel CR, it seems to me to be far more like Spectre than like Smersh.

#43 Tybre

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:49 PM

Although Quantum certainly fulfilled the role that Smersh had in the novel CR, it seems to me to be far more like Spectre than like Smersh.


True enough. My brain just sort of automatically draws a line between Quantum and SMERSH, though.

#44 Ghostboy

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 02:59 PM

hi! i have a different question: remember this whole hooha about the aston martin driving into Lake Garda last year? does anyone know why that happened? was it a promo stunt ( a vulgarly expensive one) was it a real accident (but why was someone driving the car around instead of putting it on a truck) or was it in a deleted scene where bond drives into a lake for some obscure reason? it's been puzzling me for so long, anyone?
thanks!

#45 DamnCoffee

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 03:10 PM

It was a freak accident on set. The original plan for the PTS was to have the Aston involved in a truck explosion, but they thought it wise to change their plans due to that incident.

#46 Ghostboy

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 03:29 PM

It was a freak accident on set. The original plan for the PTS was to have the Aston involved in a truck explosion, but they thought it wise to change their plans due to that incident.

thank you!
that was a very costly accident! i read that the car was driving from one location to another, so i think they should've been more careful transporting it. but that stuntman sure is a great swimmer then, if he managed to get out of the car and back to the surface! i would've freaked and accepted my fate of dying in a glorious aston(there are worse ways to die!)
hey i think i just found Bond 23's title: "there are worse ways to die"
anyone with me? :-p i totally copyright that by the way :-D

#47 DamnCoffee

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 03:34 PM

From what I remember, the stuntman was in a very serious condition. DON'T quote me on this 'cause I could be wrong, but I THINK he got brain damage.

#48 byline

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 05:35 PM

But does anybody know why Mitchell holsters his gun and legs it when he has a clear shot at Bond?

I thought it was because Mitchell actually did not have a clear shot at Bond, because Bond was sitting behind Mr. White (which is why Mitchell hits Mr. White, instead). Given the editing, it's a little crazy trying to figure out who's shooting when, but I got the impression that Mitchell high-tails it when Bond gets out his gun and starts shooting. Mitchell is running for his life, and since he missed his best opportunity, probably thinks his chances of killing Bond are better if he can get him out on the run.

#49 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 08:31 PM

And I doubt White is the head of Quantum. Granted the scene was cut so it's canonicity can be debated, there is a scene in which Bond shows up at Haines' estate. Haines is supposed to be White's superior.

If Haines is supposed to be White's superior, why the heck does White try to kill him?

#50 byline

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 09:26 PM

And I doubt White is the head of Quantum. Granted the scene was cut so it's canonicity can be debated, there is a scene in which Bond shows up at Haines' estate. Haines is supposed to be White's superior.

If Haines is supposed to be White's superior, why the heck does White try to kill him?

I assume you're referring to the much-discussed, but never-seen, alternate ending. Do we know for a fact that that's how it plays out?

#51 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 01:55 AM

And I doubt White is the head of Quantum. Granted the scene was cut so it's canonicity can be debated, there is a scene in which Bond shows up at Haines' estate. Haines is supposed to be White's superior.

If Haines is supposed to be White's superior, why the heck does White try to kill him?

I assume you're referring to the much-discussed, but never-seen, alternate ending. Do we know for a fact that that's how it plays out?

Yes; footage featuring White drawing a gun on Haines was shown in a Danish interview with Jesper Christiansen around the time of the film's release.

#52 danielcraigisjamesbond007

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 02:10 AM

And I doubt White is the head of Quantum. Granted the scene was cut so it's canonicity can be debated, there is a scene in which Bond shows up at Haines' estate. Haines is supposed to be White's superior.

If Haines is supposed to be White's superior, why the heck does White try to kill him?

I assume you're referring to the much-discussed, but never-seen, alternate ending. Do we know for a fact that that's how it plays out?

Yes; footage featuring White drawing a gun on Haines was shown in a Danish interview with Jesper Christiansen around the time of the film's release.

There's also a photo of it on the booklet for the film's soundtrack, if memory serves me correctly.

#53 byline

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 02:20 AM

And I doubt White is the head of Quantum. Granted the scene was cut so it's canonicity can be debated, there is a scene in which Bond shows up at Haines' estate. Haines is supposed to be White's superior.

If Haines is supposed to be White's superior, why the heck does White try to kill him?

I assume you're referring to the much-discussed, but never-seen, alternate ending. Do we know for a fact that that's how it plays out?

Yes; footage featuring White drawing a gun on Haines was shown in a Danish interview with Jesper Christiansen around the time of the film's release.

There's also a photo of it on the booklet for the film's soundtrack, if memory serves me correctly.

Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification. I've read a lot of discussion of this ending, but hadn't seen anything that laid out what was supposed to have happened.

#54 JimmyBond

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 02:33 AM

I never saw it as a rescue attempt. White was under the influence of drugs, drugs that were making him more open to talking. It was because of the drugs that Mitchell's cover was blown. At that point he tried to flee.

#55 danielcraigisjamesbond007

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 02:51 AM

I never saw it as a rescue attempt. White was under the influence of drugs, drugs that were making him more open to talking. It was because of the drugs that Mitchell's cover was blown. At that point he tried to flee.

Wow! I never thought of it that way, before...

#56 Dekard77

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 09:15 PM

I never saw it as a rescue attempt. White was under the influence of drugs, drugs that were making him more open to talking. It was because of the drugs that Mitchell's cover was blown. At that point he tried to flee.


Thats a very cool point. I was wondering why White was so chatty but then though his rescue was inevitable.

Bond chases MItchell for all the wrong reasons in the book simply because an agent has to protect his superior especially since he knows there are traitors in the organization. If M managed to run away from Mitchell then Bond should have followed her to safety and taken her out of there making it the chase, but I feel due to the requirement of a much needed action scene we see the rooftop scene which I did not like about this movie.
The least they could have done is to show M giving orders to Bond to follow Mitchell after she's being rescued.

The hotel in the middle of the desert is explained in the movie as a good meeting point as it's abandoned.

Camille is not questioned at first because Bond wants to pursue Greene and doesn't think Camille is important enough to the story. Which is why when Camille explains herself in the cave Bond regrets for getting in the way.

About the suit I feel that Bond been drving around a bit until safe house locations and M's arrival confirmed. So it can be not an exact continuation from CR????? Also he looks worn out/ tired due to chase which makes sense as he is driving around a dirt pile without a door and getting exposed to dust.

I have a few questions about the movie.
1.Why does Bond jump to recuse Camille in Haiti? He doesn't know she is being kidnapped etc??

2.How on earth did they get to know where Bond was at the Opera so quickly???
Bond doesnt shoot or kill the special branch operative so why is Mi6 after him later on? I know at first what it looks like but later M should realise what happend without always trying to stop Bond from continuing the mission whihc makes her looks very ineffeciant.
3.Also from an human angle why did Bond very coldly throw Mathis in the bin?



#57 baerrtt

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 05:54 PM

I never saw it as a rescue attempt. White was under the influence of drugs, drugs that were making him more open to talking. It was because of the drugs that Mitchell's cover was blown. At that point he tried to flee.


Thats a very cool point. I was wondering why White was so chatty but then though his rescue was inevitable.

Bond chases MItchell for all the wrong reasons in the book simply because an agent has to protect his superior especially since he knows there are traitors in the organization. If M managed to run away from Mitchell then Bond should have followed her to safety and taken her out of there making it the chase, but I feel due to the requirement of a much needed action scene we see the rooftop scene which I did not like about this movie.
The least they could have done is to show M giving orders to Bond to follow Mitchell after she's being rescued.

The hotel in the middle of the desert is explained in the movie as a good meeting point as it's abandoned.

Camille is not questioned at first because Bond wants to pursue Greene and doesn't think Camille is important enough to the story. Which is why when Camille explains herself in the cave Bond regrets for getting in the way.

About the suit I feel that Bond been drving around a bit until safe house locations and M's arrival confirmed. So it can be not an exact continuation from CR????? Also he looks worn out/ tired due to chase which makes sense as he is driving around a dirt pile without a door and getting exposed to dust.

I have a few questions about the movie.
1.Why does Bond jump to recuse Camille in Haiti? He doesn't know she is being kidnapped etc??

2.How on earth did they get to know where Bond was at the Opera so quickly???
Bond doesnt shoot or kill the special branch operative so why is Mi6 after him later on? I know at first what it looks like but later M should realise what happend without always trying to stop Bond from continuing the mission whihc makes her looks very ineffeciant.
3.Also from an human angle why did Bond very coldly throw Mathis in the bin?


1.When Bond posed as Slate upon meeting her he immediately discovered that there was an attempt on her life (when they're tailed by the motorcyclist) presumably by Greene. And besides I just figured that it was a very Bond thing for him to come to the rescue of somebody he barely knows but feels is in danger.

2. MI6 had a tracer on Bond's movements as he was reporting back to them every step of the way. As far as they knew he was directly responsible for the special branch agent being killed (besides Bond left after the guy fell and didn't see Greene's henchman put a bullet or two in him).

3. Bond needed to get away fast and despite Camille's disgust that he is being callous with the body of Mathis look at his face when he deposits him in the bin and that's the face of a man whose occupation forces him sometimes to do things he really doesn't like but professionally has to in order to ensure his survival.